Starfield was never going to be 60FPS on Xbox consoles, and for good reason

Zachary Boddy

Staff member
Aug 3, 2014
2,389
13
38
www.windowscentral.com
I'm glad Microsoft doesn't force developers to start from a 4K/60FPS requirement, because it means games like Starfield couldn't exist on console. It'd have to be limited or scaled back in some way, and then it's just not the same game.
 

darknight765

New member
Jun 12, 2023
6
0
1
Visit site
I'm glad Microsoft doesn't force developers to start from a 4K/60FPS requirement, because it means games like Starfield couldn't exist on console. It'd have to be limited or scaled back in some way, and then it's just not the same game.
No it wouldn't. And I can point to a very simple reason for this. It runs on the series S at 1440p. So are you honestly going to tell me with a straight face that they couldn't bump the X down to 1440p or 1080p, turn down some effects, reduce, draw distance, etc and get 60? And doing something like that would limit or scale back the game? You and I know perfectly well that in about 6 months after release this game will have a performance mode.

Last piece of evidence was the quote from Phil. He said the frame rate was a creative decision not a problem with the hardware. And I'm sorry but I'd take his word over Todd's he is a proven liar. Remember fallout 76? "4x the detail"
 

Zachary Boddy

Staff member
Aug 3, 2014
2,389
13
38
www.windowscentral.com
No it wouldn't. And I can point to a very simple reason for this. It runs on the series S at 1440p. So are you honestly going to tell me with a straight face that they couldn't bump the X down to 1440p or 1080p, turn down some effects, reduce, draw distance, etc and get 60? And doing something like that would limit or scale back the game? You and I know perfectly well that in about 6 months after release this game will have a performance mode.

Last piece of evidence was the quote from Phil. He said the frame rate was a creative decision not a problem with the hardware. And I'm sorry but I'd take his word over Todd's he is a proven liar. Remember fallout 76? "4x the detail"
Did you even read the article? Lowering the resolution does not magically give you a higher framerate. Stop placing so much importance on the GPU. The CPU is the bottleneck here, and the Series S and X are almost identical in that aspect.

I'm not saying 60FPS on Xbox Series X|S is impossible or can't eventually happen, but it has very little to do with tinkering with the game's visual settings or resolution.
 

darknight765

New member
Jun 12, 2023
6
0
1
Visit site
Did you even read the article? Lowering the resolution does not magically give you a higher framerate. Stop placing so much importance on the GPU. The CPU is the bottleneck here, and the Series S and X are almost identical in that aspect.

I'm not saying 60FPS on Xbox Series X|S is impossible or can't eventually happen, but it has very little to do with tinkering with the game's visual settings or resolution.
Yes I read your article, but you clearly didn't read my 5 sentences. I listed several things like turning down certain effects (particle effects) that would reduce the load on the cpu. Your article reads like a dmg control piece. Just my opinion tho. As for the CPU being a bottle neck get out of here. I maybe an armchair developer but I am a System Engineer so hardware isn't out of my wheel house. But I'll humor your CPU bottleneck claim.
Tell me what's the main things devs do to maintain a stable frame rate?

Dynamic resolution and temporal reconstruction. Both lower the rez to give head room for higher frame rates. The reason for this is because of last gen. The CPU on those APU were for tablets so devs had to put a lot more process on the GPU. Fast forward to now and the main thing holding performance back on any console is devs refusing to update their rendering pipeline for modern hardware. There are many reason for this, money, games were already in development, they are using an off the shelf engine (unreal), etc.
Starfield in particular is on a notorious poorly optimize engine and I know they said they modernized it but we saw the results when they first showed Starfield. You build a house on a shake foundation and thats what you get. Nobody was expecting to be wowed by the graphics but we all know that engine chugs.

That being said simply turning down the resolution would give them more room in their rendering budget. Like that's just a simple fact, you don't have to know crap about tech to know this. I know every PC gamer knows this. Lowering the viewing distance reduces draw calls which again give you more room in your rendering budget. Lowering the amount of particle effects reduces load on the cpu. Todd said they were using GI in the game, you can reduce the amount of bounces it calculates, reducing the load on the cpu, and again give you more room in your rendering budget.

And that stuff is low hanging fruit. Things that you can implement fairly quickly with little disruption. They could add FSR 2.0 and VRS. Heavy lifts for sure but if you were trying to get good frame rates you would have tried to include this things (FSR 2.0 might have been a little late for them to use). They could have made a mode with an unlocked frame rate and just made it so you had to have a TV VRR to use it. There are so many ways to crack this nut and Todd had the support of a trillion dollar company with an army of engineers.
I say all this to drive home the point that if Todd wanted that game to run at 60 fps it would be running at 60 fps and nothing about his vision or creative direction would have change.

But that's my problem with your article. Todd is on record multiple times saying he doesn't care for high frame rates. So it is what it is. That's what he wanted and thats what we are getting. Phil already said it was the creative vision not a hardware problem, so IDK even know why you wrote this frankly. It was debunked by the Xbox CEO before you even published it. My opinion on your article is just that, an opinion. But those things they could do to improve frame rate without changing the creative vision of the game are all facts.
 

fjtorres5591

Active member
May 16, 2023
217
56
28
Visit site
No it wouldn't. And I can point to a very simple reason for this. It runs on the series S at 1440p. So are you honestly going to tell me with a straight face that they couldn't bump the X down to 1440p or 1080p, turn down some effects, reduce, draw distance, etc and get 60? And doing something like that would limit or scale back the game? You and I know perfectly well that in about 6 months after release this game will have a performance mode.

Last piece of evidence was the quote from Phil. He said the frame rate was a creative decision not a problem with the hardware. And I'm sorry but I'd take his word over Todd's he is a proven liar. Remember fallout 76? "4x the detail"
 

fjtorres5591

Active member
May 16, 2023
217
56
28
Visit site
Actually there is exactly one way the game could run at 60fps or even 120fps.
The same approach ASOBO uses on Flight Simulator: offloading the bulk of the CPU calculations to the cloud.

Which would make the game online conected only.

Somehow I doubt STARFIELD would sell all that well if it were online only.
(Or if they degraded the stability of the game just to claim, "it runs vrr up to 60fps" and only hitting 60 in closed rooms.)

Bethesda made a creative choice to optimize the CPU at a consistent 30fps on the current gen CPU and *not* sacrifice draw distance, particle effect smooth animations, and the underlying physics models in order to provide a bit of eye candy.

Lost in all the angst is that CPU matters as much as GPU. If anybody paid attention they'd remember the frame rate limits of the last generation consoles weren't set by the GPUs but the CPU. Which is way XBOX backwards compatibility can so easily double the frame rate of so many games. Fallout 4 among them.

If folks want 60fps so badly , maybe Bethesda will offer up update with an unlock switch so they can live with the pop-in and crashes that come with it.

From what they've said they could do it overnight.
Not sure many would prefer to run in that mode but if it sends the mob with pitchforks back to the barn until they see the truth for themselves.
 

darknight765

New member
Jun 12, 2023
6
0
1
Visit site
Actually there is exactly one way the game could run at 60fps or even 120fps.
The same approach ASOBO uses on Flight Simulator: offloading the bulk of the CPU calculations to the cloud.

Which would make the game online conected only.

Somehow I doubt STARFIELD would sell all that well if it were online only.
(Or if they degraded the stability of the game just to claim, "it runs vrr up to 60fps" and only hitting 60 in closed rooms.)

Bethesda made a creative choice to optimize the CPU at a consistent 30fps on the current gen CPU and *not* sacrifice draw distance, particle effect smooth animations, and the underlying physics models in order to provide a bit of eye candy.

Lost in all the angst is that CPU matters as much as GPU. If anybody paid attention they'd remember the frame rate limits of the last generation consoles weren't set by the GPUs but the CPU. Which is way XBOX backwards compatibility can so easily double the frame rate of so many games. Fallout 4 among them.

If folks want 60fps so badly , maybe Bethesda will offer up update with an unlock switch so they can live with the pop-in and crashes that come with it.

From what they've said they could do it overnight.
Not sure many would prefer to run in that mode but if it sends the mob with pitchforks back to the barn until they see the truth for themselves.
You sacrifice nothing in giving people options. There is a large group of people that don't care about that bit of extra eye candy and want the frames. Todd would like you to play it at 4k 30 but there is a 1440p option. Takes nothing away from his creative vision. Hell people on PC will be doing exactly what you said, turning all that off and running it 1080p 60 120 or more. His creative vision will still be the same.

Like I said from the jump tho, we all know they could do it. Probably would take too much effort but why no option. He couldn't even tell you what he would lose cause it's BS. Dude threw a buzz word and everyone looked the other way.
 

fjtorres5591

Active member
May 16, 2023
217
56
28
Visit site
You sacrifice nothing in giving people options. There is a large group of people that don't care about that bit of extra eye candy and want the frames. Todd would like you to play it at 4k 30 but there is a 1440p option. Takes nothing away from his creative vision. Hell people on PC will be doing exactly what you said, turning all that off and running it 1080p 60 120 or more. His creative vision will still be the same.

Like I said from the jump tho, we all know they could do it. Probably would take too much effort but why no option. He couldn't even tell you what he would lose cause it's BS. Dude threw a buzz word and everyone looked the other way.
I've played Fallout 4 one the Scorpio and SX; 30fps and 60fps on the SX. 60fps added nothing of value for me. Just a bit brighter. The really noticeable change at both frame rates was stability. Less crashes in central Boston. If 30fps is more stable.
Meth
 

Hanley Gibbons

New member
Nov 10, 2014
18
2
3
Visit site
I understand that CPU is probably the limitation here. It's still bullshit. Both Series X and S support VRR. Uncap the framerate, lock the minimum to 30 and let the max float.

Todd said they locked it at 30fps for consistency even though it often could run at 60fps. I don't care about consistency if I can have a 30fps minimum and have it float between 60 and 30 the rest of the time.

I'm a huge Bethesda fan, but the internet needs to stop apologizing for them. This was a creative decision to hamstring the game and forego making use of VRR.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
323,324
Messages
2,243,637
Members
428,061
Latest member
cagkles124