Surface not-Phone already losing the hype war?

[mtf1380]

I get the feeling that this currently mythical mobile folding device will not be available until 5G is readily available in major cities (mid-2019); but, hopefully will be introduced at MS's Future Decoded 2018 event in London, this October.

 

[Peter Rokeby]

A modern phone is a computer but modern computers are not phones. Why not? What prevents an LTE equipped computer from making voice calls or directly working with SMS? Pardon my ignorance but this seems like a simple problem to fix.

 

[shaunydub]

Standard MS strategy to think of something amazing, let it stall and lose the market to other companies.
As much as I want it to be amazing and own the sector I have no faith in MS now.
I for one won't invest In another MS device until at least 3rd gen version or I see significant success, I have been stung too many times as an early adopter and supporter.

 

[Gregory Sauter]

Whatever. I'm gripping my 950XL tightly until it either dies or there's a new Microsoft solution. So, please bring on Andromeda, Microsoft. Who cares what Apple and Android do? I've never used an Android device, and the last Apple product I used was an Apple II, which was probably gone before most readers were born.

 

[pavvento]

It doesn't matter when it's released, what matters is what is released. Apple and especially Samsung have proven you don't need to be first. I'd rather Microsoft be a year behind and release a stellar product, then be first and release a half baked product, or a product that is filled with hypothetical potential.

 

[BajanSaint69]

Guys what if Andromeda is released as a surface tablet that folds and by the way you can make calls on it too. The iPhone foldable and the Galaxy foldable are kind of irrelevant when you think of it that way. One is a full Windows 10 PC that can make calls and fit in your pocket, the other is a phone that folds.

Let's face it Surface's killer ap is that it runs full windows 10.

Not a device for everyone I will admit but I could see that being useful to road warriors.

 

[Vivio vrvly]

What they need to do is not just bring new device/s, but also change their way towards customers. Would say the latter could even help bring the first.

 

[Chaos2000]

Apple and Samsung can release a fodable phone before Microsoft, but it doesn't mean it's gonna be a success, because Apple and Samsung doesn't know what Microsoft has instore with the new OS Andromeda, Microsoft ain't stupid to share their plans about their new device we will only find out when the product comes out "if" Microsoft doesn't decide to cancle the fodable phone. Don't get your hopes up just wait and see the battle between Apple, Samsung and Microsoft and who will come out victorious with their new fodable phone.

 

[anon(50597)]

Apple and Samsung can release a fodable phone before Microsoft, but it doesn't mean it's gonna be a success, because Apple and Samsung doesn't know what Microsoft has instore with the new OS Andromeda, Microsoft ain't stupid to share their plans about their new device we will only find out when the product comes out "if" Microsoft doesn't decide to cancle the fodable phone. Don't get your hopes up just wait and see the battle between Apple, Samsung and Microsoft and who will come out victorious with their new fodable phone.

First of all you mean foldable.
Secondly, what these companies are doing may be for completely different markets. I doubt MS has any chance to make a device for consumers and most likely will continue focusing on enterprise. Apple and Samsung will focus on consumers. If I was forced to bet on which will be more successful, I know who I’d put my money on.

 

[unmorphed]

You changed the word phone to device.

That's why Microsoft isn't on list.

No device running Windows will succeed as a phone, regardless of the tech for the same reason Windows phones failed - APPS.

As an enterprise device that also works as a phone, yeah could be as successful as that niche allows. As a portable device, if there is a market for that, yeah as successful as it could be. As a phone, no. That ship has sailed, and it left port back in the early 2000's.

 

[taynjack]

It seems to me that Microsoft keeps running away from the crowd and then yells back to them, "OVER HERE! THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT!!" Rather than running to the crowd and discovering what they want, then giving it to them. Add that they have burned so many people who just don't care anymore, they have cast out the very enthusiasts that would have started it's success, then showed it off to the crowd to get the hype they need to make the product viable. The few enthusiasts that are left won't turn this wrong way ship. I tried for so long to think that Microsoft had a chance. But now, everyone I talk to couldn't care less about a shiny new product from Microsoft. They gave up a long time ago.

 

[taynjack]

Here's a scenario for you. Try to convince any Android user to convert from their Samsung to a Oneplus, or from an LG to a Huawei. That is in itself a pretty difficult battle for people to even change from one device to another device with the SAME operating system. Now imagine the difficulty convincing them to change everything they know about the device in their pocket. The average consumer just isn't that interested in learning a whole new way of doing things when what they already have is fulfilling their daily needs. Add in the app gap, which still exists on Windows 10, and you won't convince people to convert for a more complicated, less familiar way of doing things.

 

[taynjack]

Lastly, this talk of enterprise focus over consumer really needs to stop! The enterprise is consumers! When the enterprise goes on a lunch break, they are consumers! When the enterprise goes home for the day they are consumers! No one wants to carry around two devices that do the same thing! I don't use a Thinkpad at work then carry it home only to say, "oh I can't use that laptop because it is enterprise focused. I better go buy a separate consumer device." This is crazy talk! EVERY. SINGLE. ENTERPRISE. PERSON is a consumer!

 

[Giwi]

I think you have to consider how notoriously bad T3 is at journalism as they seem to have a hate for Microsoft. Still stuck in the 90s perhaps.. But they always leave them off the list even when highly relevant. Alas people don't seem to realize nor care, and so the apple and Samsung hype continues to grow disproportionate to reality.

 

[Long Xuyen]

oh dear me, Apple et al are rumoured to be in the foldable game. Well if they are you can bet that MS will run last as usual. They always lead the rumour race and come last in the delivery race. Odds are that MS will kill off the project before it's released as usual under Nadella.

 

[Bloobed]

I totally agree. This is a device that is not needed by very many people, if any. It will not take the place of a smartphone. The whole idea seems forced.

There certainly seems to be little need for such a device, but the hype machines for Apple and Samsung can well create the demand for it nonetheless. I don't see what MS could bring to that table over the competitors.

 

[KJW23]

I have to say in my use Of the App Store There is no app gap. so With PWA, the app gap will get smaller.

 

[TechsUK]

Oh, don't suggest they'll release one before our beloved Andromeda.
I'd successfully tucked that niggling thought out of my mind as I wait in anticipation for the resurgent relevance of Microsoft in mobile/telephone computing.

 

[Drael646464]

Any soon to be released foldable tablet is not the final form. Graphene flexible screens when they can affordably be manufactured is (a decade off AT LEAST).

As such any product will have creases, and be basically similar to a smart phone. Or in other words - it will not sell that well, only for a niche. Productivity most likely will be the only segment until the crease is removed, and the graphene tech makes it such that it's a consumer product that replaces entirely the slab (along with AR glasses).

The other issues is the OS - android is not at all a good OS for tablets. iOS is, windows is, but android has too much basis in the smartphone market to work optimally on a bigger screen where more feature rich software, detailed UI, and complex workflows come into play.

Samsung however, co-own the graphene OLED screen they developed with Microsoft. So they absolutely want to get into this space. However they have also said they don't like their reliance on android. So I am not sure where they will fall. They might try an android version, and a windows version, and see which one performs better.

Ultimately whomever wins, in the long term will require a hybrid OS. I think of the three, only really apple and Microsoft have a shot at this, and MSFT is marginally ahead because apples secret hybrid OS, and HoloLens competitor are both not released. Still in my mind, apple is in the game, android is not. So it's most probable, that long term, Samsung will default to using windows in their foldable.

There is a reason after all why android tablets are the fastest shrinking share of the tablet market - the apps are designed for smaller screens, and more momentary useage. iOS is vastly more evolved for bigger screens. They still lack a lot of true power software, and that's an issue for the initial market for these devices. Apple will have to release it's OSX iOS hybrid, and start developers down that road, before it's folding tablet will be much more than a portable ipad - which makes it of limited use to enterprise.

But you really have to keep in mind, this is a play for the future. It's not a game changer, not yet. Those creaseless graphene designs you see in that article? Not coming out soon. No way, impossible. Graphene is just far too costly. The screen itself will have to be static for awhile.

And remember - graphene prototypes have been around, on display, in the public eye from numerous companies since 2015 ish. So in this way, that article is EXTREMELY misleading.

The idea is, to attract the developers, and develop the OS, so that it is the most mature and feature rich/adapted the time that graphene OLED becomes at least economically viable for enterprise (and later when it becomes truely folding, without a crease and affordable for the masses, and there ceases to be any value in NOT having it)


There is no way in hell, that time is 2019. Sorry, but thats BS.

 

[Drael646464]

Lastly, this talk of enterprise focus over consumer really needs to stop! The enterprise is consumers! When the enterprise goes on a lunch break, they are consumers! When the enterprise goes home for the day they are consumers! No one wants to carry around two devices that do the same thing! I don't use a Thinkpad at work then carry it home only to say, "oh I can't use that laptop because it is enterprise focused. I better go buy a separate consumer device." This is crazy talk! EVERY. SINGLE. ENTERPRISE. PERSON is a consumer!

It's really not. If it weren't for enterprise we wouldn't have gotten the personal computer (from mainframes) or the smartphone (from 1980s cellular phones). Enterprise can afford to invest when production costs are high, thus the product has a high cost, but software and features are not refined - because they can use such devices for specialised functions with software and functions developed in house.

Consumers only come to the market, after a product has been fully fleshed out, and manufacturing costs have been brought down. With graphene folding tablets, where it currently takes something like 10,000 USD to produce a single prototype, and cost alone is the only reason such products don't exist - this is extremely relevant. The "proto" version, that is andromeda, also has the feature issue - no OS is currently built to scale all its software and functions between to screen formats (dual screen, or single screen). As such this is FAR more useful to people using it with a specialised use in mind, until the developer side fleshes out (and the OS too).

Enterprise couldn't be more relevant than this particular branch of technology. People who quote this "enterprise are just consumers" line are missing a lot.

Take something like the HoloLens - it's expensive, and has a limited software set. Consumers don't want it yet. People don't want to take it home. But they use it for surgery in medical hospitals and to design building and factory lay outs. Right now.

Most tech products start in enterprise before there's any real value in consumers owning it, let alone spending the high price tags early tech comes with.