The 2014 Lumia lineup makes zero sense, thinking 2015 lineup

[anon(5348756)]

I was looking at reports of the rumored 435 and it got me thinking. The rumored specs are actually BETTER than the 530/535/630/635 in a few respects: display resolution and CPU. Now I know that these are just rumors, but looking at the 2014 lineup... what gives? It is so confusing: 530 has bad res/CPU, 535 has bad screen/decent res/bad CPU/good RAM, 630/35 has bad res, bad RAM, decent CPU but lacks sensors and FFC which the 535 has...

Seriously, what? MS needs to figure this out properly. Just look at how they've screwed the 8xx range with a SD400 cpu, which while it's a great cpu, it's unacceptable when you're paying $450. The 2014 lineup is confused and badly planned, I'd guess it's due to the chaos of the Nokia purchase and reorganizing all the workforce.

Now, it doesn't take a genius to plan a good lineup, however. If you ask me, the following would have made more sense and would have been much more clearly marketable:

435 - SD200, 4" 540p, 512RAM, 4GB, MicroSD
535 - SD400, 4" 540p, 512RAM, 8GB, MicroSD, FFC
635 - SD400, 4.5" 480p, 1GBRAM, 8GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack
735 - SD600, 4.5" 720p, 1GBRAM, 8GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack, better camera
830 - SD600, 5" 720p, 1GBRAM, 16GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack, Pureview camera
930 - SD800, 5" 1080p, 2GBRAM, 32GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack, Pureview camera
1520 - SD800, 6" 1080p, 2GBRAM, 32GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack, Pureview camera

Notice how MS only got the 930 and 1520 devices right. Those are the only 2 phones that are specced correctly for their position in the lineup. Everything from 830 and below has been handled poorly, which ironically is exactly where they're trying to sell the most. Even with the current mistakes, having the 635 with a front camera, even if a simply passable one, would have made a world of a difference. Now that the 535 has a FFC, it's shaming the 635 which also has less RAM. Maybe Nokia was sticking it to Microsoft before their phone division transferred, because I can't imagine the current lineup had any logical planning to it.

Now, what happens in 2015. We know we won't get flagships until W10, which is like 10 months away. MS will have to survive on low end and midrange. If they spec and price these phones right, they can succeed - otherwise WP is quite dead in the market. They're the underdog and by definition have to entice consumers (other than us WP users) so they're tempted to switch or buy WP as a first smartphone. So, how would my 2015 lineup look like? I highlighted in red what you gain with each step up:

$49, 440 - SD210, 4" 540p, 512RAM, 4GB, MicroSD
$99, 540 - SD210, 4" 540p, 512RAM, 8GB, MicroSD, FFC
$149, 640 - SD410, 4.5" 540p, 1GBRAM, 8GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack
$249, 1340 - SD410, 6" 720p, 1GBRAM, 8GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack
$249, 740 - SD610, 4.5" 720p, 1GBRAM, 8GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack, better camera
$349, 840 - SD610, 5" 720p, 1GBRAM, 16GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack, Pureview camera
$449, 940 - SD810, 5" 1080p, 2GBRAM, 32GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack, Pureview camera
$549, 1540 - SD810, 6" 1080p, 3GBRAM, 32GB, MicroSD, FFC, Clearblack, Pureview camera (skip 1530 for cohesion)

Comments, thoughts, debate? I'd love to know people's opinion on the 2014 and potential 2015 lineups. I'm sick of my cracked 920 but the Lumias on sale right now just aren't good buys.

 

[Jas00555]

I think you've got your numbers completely mixed up. *sigh* where to even begin with this mess???

Ok, well, first off, you say that the CPU is better than all of those phones, yet that's completely wrong. The SD 200 is the same as the 530/5 and is worse than the SD 400 in the 630/5. I can think of literally no way that the rumored 430 is somehow better than any other Lumia.

You also are apparently very confused about display resolution. You measure by the second number (e.g. XXXX x XXX), which you apparently only decided to do for some, but not all, which is really confusing. Those phones aren't "854p", they're either 480p or 540p. The vertical resolution is 854, but the vertical resolution is 1280 on the 73x, which just..... *sigh* nevermind.

 

[Aaron Yawn]

Good points on the line up. Off contract pricing is good for time being, of MS can ever get some traction they could raise of contract prices to meet high-end Apple and Samsung therefore making a profit of sells

 

[anon(5348756)]

Ok, well, first off, you say that the CPU is better than all of those phones, yet that's completely wrong. The SD 200 is the same as the 530/5 and is worse than the SD 400 in the 630/5. I can think of literally no way that the rumored 430 is somehow better than any other Lumia. You also are apparently very confused about display resolution. You measure by the second number (e.g. XXXX x XXX), which you apparently only decided to do for some, but not all, which is really confusing. Those phones aren't "854p", they're either 480p or 540p. The vertical resolution is 854, but the vertical resolution is 1280 on the 73x, which just..... *sigh* nevermind.

OK dude, cool it. I made a typo, hardly deserving of your reply's tone. I fixed the original post. Get off your high horse.

As for the rest, read properly before you make a patronizing comment. I said "The rumored specs are actually BETTER than the 530/535/630/635 in a few respects: display resolution and CPU", I didn't say the 435 is better in BOTH respects. The SD200 CPU is worse than SD400, but the screen resolution is better (however this 435 is rumored to have SD400 which would be better than the 530/535, but I don't believe that could be true). The 435 would have no Clearblack, which the 635 does. Thus, it's better in some respects, worse in others, just as I said. So, to clarify:

435 with SD400 and 540p screen is:
- Better CPU than 530/535, same screen
- Same CPU than 630/635 but non-Clearblack screen yet with better resolution

Thus why the 435 would make no sense in this lineup as rumored. Which doesn't disprove my other point that the current 2014 lineup is messed up.

 

[Jas00555]

That's inconsistent with almost every rumor I've seen. The 430 is suppose to have 480p, 4", SD 200, 512MB RAM, and 4GB storage. That's worse than every Lumia except for the 530.

 

[anon(5348756)]

I don't believe the 435 will have an SD400 either, it makes no sense. However, notice the title of this thread isn't 435 SPECS, but the current and future lineup. I'm talking about much more than just a Lumia 435 rumor. Can we focus on what I'm talking about instead of derailing the thread, please?

 

[Jas00555]

No, it doesn't say "Lumia 435 specs", but it does say "2014 lineup makes no sense", which isn't necessarily true except for maybe the 535.

If you want it to solely be about the future, I would suggest changing it to "thinking about 2015" or something along those lines.

 

[anon(5348756)]

The current lineup makes no sense. 540p on the 535 and FFC are better than 480p on the 635 and no FFC. 735 is OK but overpriced. The 830 affordable flagship is way too expensive and still uses the same SD400 that the 635 uses for $350 less. Suddenly there's a huge jump on the 930 to a SD800, which is only $50 more than the 830.

That makes sense to you, how? Seriously dude, you don't like the thread, that's fine. GO AWAY and let the rest of us debate. That or I'll report you.

 

[techiez]

launching cheap phones without FFC or with 512mb ram when there were limitations in app store dint make sense, thats the reason Ms brought 535, comparing it with 635 is not correct as technically they were launched by 2 different companies with different budgets in their pockets and different expectations from market, so feel free to compare 535 with upcoming devices but not 635.
I'm glad MS corrected mistake with 535.
As for 830& 930 they are overpriced but still in line with numbering, so I wud agree with u on price but not on line up

 

[jmshub]

The 830 affordable flagship is way too expensive and still uses the same SD400 that the 635 uses for $350 less. Suddenly there's a huge jump on the 930 to a SD800, which is only $50 more than the 830.

Your own charts explain this. The cost of the CPU isn't the key factor in the cost of the phone. The cost is all of the parts. The PureView camera technology, the 5" screen, the extra storage. The 830 actually does have more in common with the 930 than the 630 when you look at the whole package. That's why the phone costs what it does. You may be right, the 830 may not be as good a value as Nokia wanted it to be when they built it, but you can't compare a phone on the SoC alone. It's the whole package.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Moved to Windows Phone Concepts forum, since this is about an idea of how to change the naming/numbering conventions of Lumia devices.

 

[anon(5348756)]

the 830 may not be as good a value as Nokia wanted it to be when they built it, but you can't compare a phone on the SoC alone. It's the whole package.

True, but the position/pricing/quality still needs to make sense and progress cohesively throughout the lineup. However, talking to more people about this I'm also realizing one thing: these are all Nokia devices and not Microsoft devices, so I can't really blame MS for the mess they have. If anything, the 535 is a good indicator that specs should go up from now on for each category, as even the 535 has 1GB of RAM. That would justify the pricing system we've seen, as long as the hardware actually does get better.

 

[Jas00555]

The current lineup makes no sense. 540p on the 535 and FFC are better than 480p on the 635 and no FFC. 735 is OK but overpriced. The 830 affordable flagship is way too expensive and still uses the same SD400 that the 635 uses for $350 less. Suddenly there's a huge jump on the 930 to a SD800, which is only $50 more than the 830.

That makes sense to you, how? Seriously dude, you don't like the thread, that's fine. GO AWAY and let the rest of us debate. That or I'll report you.

You're looking at this the wrong way. You can't just look at the 540p screen and say that it is somehow better than the 480p screen on the 635. Sure, ON PAPER, maybe, but what you're failing to look at is the PPI (which is much more indicative of the screen quality than simple pixel count).

The 535 is 5" whereas the 635 is 4.5". That makes the PPI about the same, and actually, I think the 635's PPI is even a little better than the 535. Even then, the 535 lacked Clearblack display and LTE.

The 735 has a much nicer front and back camera and makes the jump to HD.

The 830 has a Pureview camera, a higher megapixel count, is made out of metal as opposed to plastic, and has Glance.

The 930 is basically the 830 with bumped up specs.

I really fail to see what is so confusing about this. You're simply looking at a few specs on paper and arbitrarily deciding which is better without looking at much else. So like I said, aside from maybe the 535, the lineup makes a lot of sense. I don't "dislike" this thread, I'm informing you of your mistakes. To me, that's what debate is, but please do report me for correcting you.

 

[anon(5969054)]

2014 was a joke. Gonna be a long wait until the end of 2015 getting my replacement for my Lumia 920. :/

 

[bilzkh]

Microsoft totally dropped the ball, there's no excuse for omitting a high-end Windows Phone in Q4 2014: the Lumia 920, hello?

Anyways, Microsoft should streamline the Lumia line, here's my suggestion:

$129 - Lumia 5 (replace 5xx & 6xx), equip with Snapdragon 400 & 1GB RAM
$199 - Lumia 7 (replace 7xx & 8xx), equip with 720p screen, Snapdragon 400 & 1GB RAM & basic PureView camera
$449 - Lumia 9 (replace 9xx and 10xx), equip with 1080p screen, Snapdragon 80x, 2GB RAM & 20MP PureView camera
$699 - Lumia 15 (replace 15xx), equip with 2K screen, Snapdragon 80x, 3GB RAM & 40MP PureView camera

$699 - Surface Phone, equip with active digitizer, 2K screen, Snapdragon 80x, 3GB RAM & 20MP PureView camera

 

[BatteryLife]

Sorry, off topic.

WHY IS EVERYONE SO OBSESSED ABOUT 2K SCREENS?????

SURE, IT MIGHT LOOK BETTER A TINY BIT, BUT IT DEPENDS HOW YOU CALIBRATE THE SCREEN TOO. ALSO, BATTERY CONSUMPTION WILL BE RELATIVELY HIGHER COMPARED TO FULL HD SCREENS. WHAT IS IT, YOU WANT A TV FITTED INTO YOUR PHONE? Please.

Also, why is everyone obsessed about camera resolution, it doesn't make things much better. I could always fit a 1/4' sensor with 41 MP onto my Lumia 520. It'll look more horrible than it already is... What matters is the sensor quality, lens quality, sensor size, and brightness of flash. Though I would love to see longer support for exposure.

Sorry for the caps lock. Rant over.

 

[realwarder]

Sorry, off topic.

WHY IS EVERYONE SO OBSESSED ABOUT 2K SCREENS?????

SURE, IT MIGHT LOOK BETTER A TINY BIT, BUT IT DEPENDS HOW YOU CALIBRATE THE SCREEN TOO. ALSO, BATTERY CONSUMPTION WILL BE RELATIVELY HIGHER COMPARED TO FULL HD SCREENS. WHAT IS IT, YOU WANT A TV FITTED INTO YOUR PHONE? Please.

Also, why is everyone obsessed about camera resolution, it doesn't make things much better. I could always fit a 1/4' sensor with 41 MP onto my Lumia 520. It'll look more horrible than it already is... What matters is the sensor quality, lens quality, sensor size, and brightness of flash. Though I would love to see longer support for exposure.

Sorry for the caps lock. Rant over.

3GB RAM is overkill too. Uses more power for little gain. Trouble is people compare specs with Android and iPhone.

I've even read some reviews comparing the 830 against the iPhone 6, saying how the iPhone has a better screen with higher resolution (its really only a tiny bit more... tiny!!)

For some reason the big is best still exists even when only just bigger. Microsoft do need to have some bigger = better, but go for things people care about, like battery life.

 

[anon(5348756)]

You're simply looking at a few specs on paper and arbitrarily deciding which is better without looking at much else.

Well, allow me to say, you're doing EXACTLY the same thing then:

1) PPI on the 535 and 635 is similar, yet you ignore that one of them gives you quite a bit more screen real state. That's value. Also, it has the 735's exact same camera. So the 535 is better AND worse than the 635.

2) The 735 has a - not much nicer, mostly wider, check reviews - front camera and a 720p screen. You think that justifies a TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR price increase over the 635???

3) The 830 has a Pureview camera that's inherently better, sure. Yet you ignore that it has the SAME CPU as the $99 635. If the 830 had a SD600 it would make more sense, but the current configuration is stupid. Check online dude, even Paul Thurrott thinks that phone is configured ridiculously and is BAD value.

And as I said before, anything 930 and up is configured perfectly fine. It's the 535/635/735/830 that make no sense. Again, check online: the community is unhappy with the current lineup, not just because there's no flagship. The 830 affordable flagship is neither affordable nor a flagship. The 735 has similar HW than the Moto G yet it costs, somehow, upwards of $100 more.

You're looking at what validates your points to disprove mine, hence you're not correcting anybody. You're explaining your OPINION. Just like I never said my word is God's word. I'm simply stating my opinion, which is shared by many in the community, that the 2014 lineup is a BAD one. Especially if you're a 920 owner and thus have nothing to upgrade to price/HW wise right now in the current price bracket.

If you disagree, you disagree, and that's fine. That doesn't make you right and me wrong. That belief just makes you seem arrogant and pretentious. I'm happy with us disagreeing, you seem to not be able to stand it. I don't understand why.

 

[phlamethrowre]

This is why I left WP. I don't want to have to worry if new phones are coming out or will any flagships will be released. I got a Note 4, coulda got a Nexus 6. The Droid Turbo is nice if you're on Verizon. With Android its just a matter of deciding which awesome phone to get, not worrying about if there will be one. Although the 1520 is still an awesome phone.

 

[Inkling]

Microsoft totally dropped the ball, there's no excuse for omitting a high-end Windows Phone in Q4 2014: the Lumia 920, hello?

Anyways, Microsoft should streamline the Lumia line, here's my suggestion:

$129 - Lumia 5 (replace 5xx & 6xx), equip with Snapdragon 400 & 1GB RAM
$199 - Lumia 7 (replace 7xx & 8xx), equip with 720p screen, Snapdragon 400 & 1GB RAM & basic PureView camera
$449 - Lumia 9 (replace 9xx and 10xx), equip with 1080p screen, Snapdragon 80x, 2GB RAM & 20MP PureView camera
$699 - Lumia 15 (replace 15xx), equip with 2K screen, Snapdragon 80x, 3GB RAM & 40MP PureView camera

$699 - Surface Phone, equip with active digitizer, 2K screen, Snapdragon 80x, 3GB RAM & 20MP PureView camera

Wow dude this is actually a really good idea! :O