The death of RT or b.s?

[TheJoester09]

Like I said not trying to start anything because I'm on the fence surface 2/2520 or og surface pro.

The original Pro is going for really cheap if you can find the right places. If the price is right, I'd go for that!

 

[DaT Franchise]

$500 at best buy I believe??

 

[WillysJeepMan]

Like I said not trying to start anything because I'm on the fence surface 2/2520 or og surface pro.

I think we know that you aren't trying to "start something". It is simply an interesting conversation on how differently we're using our devices. Please don't take offense. My question wasn't to "challenge" you to defend your position... I genuinely wanted to know why you believed that the desktop is useless on the RT.

I like learning how others use their devices. I'm a gadget junkie so if anyone can give me any reason to buy yet another gadget, I'm all ears. :winktongue:

 

[DaT Franchise]

I think we know that you aren't trying to "start something". It is simply an interesting conversation on how differently we're using our devices. Please don't take offense. My question wasn't to "challenge" you to defend your position... I genuinely wanted to know why you believed that the desktop is useless on the RT.

I like learning how others use their devices. I'm a gadget junkie so if anyone can give me any reason to buy yet another gadget, I'm all ears. :winktongue:

oh no worries, I too want to learn so I can make the right choice.

Well desktop on an RT just seems useless to me and please correct me if I'm wrong but you can't install anything that you can run in the desktop except a few poor editing apps for songs and pictures and you can do that from the start screen or run office power point and what not that comes on it, oh and a few games.

My point or fear is once ms joins WP and RT you will have a situation like android where the only thing different between the 2 is the ability to make phone calls and text. And just seems with the surface rt and even more so the 2520 is not much different then my 1520 minus the big screen.

 

[T Moore]

BS
RT is already dead. It is the Surface 2 now. It may have another name when the platform comingles with WP but the OS will still be here.
WP with a desktop and no phone. Just wish it had GPS

 

[Chris_Kez]

My point or fear is once ms joins WP and RT you will have a situation like android where the only thing different between the 2 is the ability to make phone calls and text.

I think "RT" as a name will die, but the idea of a touch-first OS that puts a premium on security and ease of use will live on. My hope is that you have a situation more like iPhone/iPad, where you can use lots of the phone apps on the tablet without too many issues but there are also plenty of high-quality tablet-specific apps. Having a 10" or even 8" screen just makes for a qualitatively different experience. Someone earlier referenced Office vs. Office Mobile, and that is a great example. Using Office Mobile on a phone isn't the same. Even if you had a new, feature-rich touch-optimized Office for WP it wouldn't be the same as using a larger tablet. The extra real estate does make a difference- and after having a Dell Venue 8 Pro for a few weeks I'm finding that is true in most circumstances. The smaller phone screen either shrinks everything down or limits you to a small viewable slice.

I think iOS and Android, and now to some extent Windows RT have shown that you can do a lot with an 8"-10" device; things you can't do or would find more difficult/less enjoyable on a small screen.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I think "RT" as a name will die, but the idea of a touch-first OS that puts a premium on security and ease of use will live on. My hope is that you have a situation more like iPhone/iPad, where you can use lots of the phone apps on the tablet without too many issues but there are also plenty of high-quality tablet-specific apps. Having a 10" or even 8" screen just makes for a qualitatively different experience. Someone earlier referenced Office vs. Office Mobile, and that is a great example. Using Office Mobile on a phone isn't the same. Even if you had a new, feature-rich touch-optimized Office for WP it wouldn't be the same as using a larger tablet. The extra real estate does make a difference- and after having a Dell Venue 8 Pro for a few weeks I'm finding that is true in most circumstances. The smaller phone screen either shrinks everything down or limits you to a small viewable slice.

I think iOS and Android, and now to some extent Windows RT have shown that you can do a lot with an 8"-10" device; things you can't do or would find more difficult/less enjoyable on a small screen.

In a previous thread I mentioned that such a convergence would severely limit the Surface.

My hope is that we DON'T have a situation more like the iPhone/iPad. The iPad is nothing more than an iPhone with a larger display. It is just as limited as the iPhone. Compare that to the differences between the Surface RT/2 and Lumia Windows Phones. There is a world of difference between those two devices. I have an iPad 4. If all I wanted was a smartphone with a 10" screen, I would've stuck with the iPad. The Surface RT/2 offers far more than that.

I still have my iPad 4 and it is still my primary tablet. If Microsoft thinks again that they can out-Apple Apple, then they will learn again that they are wrong.

 

[Chris_Kez]

I think we just have different assumptions about where a convergence would lead. I assume we'd end up with a more fully featured RT that includes all of the current strengths and more, but with some of the design and UI elements that make WP so enjoyable, as well as some level of app compatibility or easy porting of apps from WP.
If they just wanted WP on a tablet, or planned to seriously deprecate RT and actually roll back its existing features, they could have just made a WP tablet instead of the Surface- or licensed it for use on 7"+ screens.

My comment about iPhone/iPad was just to note that I hope we'll see a range of apps that target a larger screen device, not that we'll see an OS that runs identically on all devices.

 

[T Moore]

It is no secret that the phone and WinRT store will soon be one after the Blue update. Phone apps will change to support more screen sizes.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

It is no secret that the phone and WinRT store will soon be one after the Blue update. Phone apps will change to support more screen sizes.

I thought that they were uniting the store as of Threshold?

 

[Reflexx]

I think a convergence will start with what is currently RT and add more robust mobile functionality. That same OS will run on ARM based tablets and phones. However the consumer might not really even notice. The UI will still be different on both devices.

 

[T Moore]

I bought an app last week. This note popped up concerning future updates of the app.

 

[a5cent]

It is no secret that the phone and WinRT store will soon be one after the Blue update. Phone apps will change to support more screen sizes.

While true, such statements confuse a lot of people who take that to mean that a single app will run on both RT and WP. That is not true.

I bought an app last week. This note popped up concerning future updates of the app.

The message provided by the app is just plain wrong, or at least most of it is. What is true is that large parts of the WinRT API will be available to developers on WP and Windows/RT, although it will be neither complete nor identical across platforms. Developers still must build separate apps for WP and Windows.

Possibly, the developer misunderstood the "option" MS is providing to build WinRT and WP apps "at the same time". Maybe the developer just preferred a false but understandable explanation over one that is true but incomprehensible to non-developers. I don't know. Either way, it just means the developer will be holding back further updates for WP8.0, so as to focus their time on a WP8.1 version. That can certainly make sense, if not for the provided reasons.

 

[CyberAngel_777]

I hope (as a Developer & a consumer) that the convergence that can already be seen
(XAP/Silverlight -> RT model) will continue on the Windows 9 RT/Phone
and that the update to 9 will unite them so that the UI selection will be automated.

 

[anony_mouse]

will[/B] get rid of the desktop.

Why are you so keen to get rid of the desktop? It's can do a lot of stuff that metro can't.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

Why are you so keen to get rid of the desktop? It's can do a lot of stuff that metro can't.

I think it'd be better if RT eventually got to the point where the Modern side could do what we need it to, and the desktop wasn't the thing that could do "a lot of things metro can't".

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I think it'd be better if RT eventually got to the point where the Modern side could do what we need it to, and the desktop wasn't the thing that could do "a lot of things metro can't".

That's the thing. It is not simply a matter of "things that metro can't". As long as Windows RT can support extended displays then it should support the desktop. Having metro on a larger (>12") display is wasteful.

Rather than think of the desktop as filling in the gaps that metro has, I think of it this way:

Desktop = keyboard/mouse, Metro = touch

The moment Microsoft removes the desktop from RT is the moment I ditch the Surface.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

That's the thing. It is not simply a matter of "things that metro can't". As long as Windows RT can support extended displays then it should support the desktop. Having metro on a larger (>12") display is wasteful.

Rather than think of the desktop as filling in the gaps that metro has, I think of it this way:

Desktop = keyboard/mouse, Metro = touch

The moment Microsoft removes the desktop from RT is the moment I ditch the Surface.

I assumed Metro scaled well, regardless of screen size.

 

[a5cent]

I assumed Metro scaled well, regardless of screen size.

Even before Metro was made available to the public, I remember a lot of write ups from Microsoft employees stating that both Metro AND the Desktop were here to stay. Metro is not and apparently was never intended to be a Desktop replacement. Metro's primary focus is touch supported media consumption. In contrast, the Desktop is about high density presentation and flexibility. One can't replace the other, simply because they are optimized for very different and conflicting usage scenarios.

Windows has long grappled with the impossible task of trying to be all things to all people. IMHO this is one of the reasons Windows has gained a poor reputation. It's simply impossible to make an OS that can be appreciated by both an engineer, and the majority of technically illiterate consumers. Metro is MS' attempt to offer a separate UI specifically for the later group of computer users.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Metro is only for the technically ignorant. Metro is for everyone. The difference to years past is that MS no longer considers the Desktop to be for everyone. That should also provide MS the flexibility to offer Desktop features that it previously couldn't. I remember reading an article somewhere (don't know if legitimate and I don't have a link), where it was stated that supporting multiple desktops was one such scenario, where usability testing showed that it wasn't a viable solution for the average consumer, although computer professionals everywhere would love it. That's just one example. I can think of many more. I don't know if this is what MS is actually planning. Based on everything I've read, I expect it is.

 

[kalo88]

The only benefit I see of a full W8 tablet vs RT, Silverlight, full flash (not a whitelist?) and the fact that quite a few apps/games still dont support ARM.