There are some things I don't understand about this iris scanners and Win Hello

[wcpusr]

How does this stupid Apple fingerprint alternative work
1. when you are outside in the winter and you have all these hats, scarfs on your head
2. when it's summer and you have sunglasses on
3. when your phone is on a table and what you need to bend your head over the phone to unlock it?
4. What if I just want to peek at my lock screen, but do not want to unlock the device??

 

[Muessig]

All these questions and more will be answered on the 6th of October!

 

[Teo Bartulovic]

1. when you are outside in the winter and you have all these hats, scarfs on your head

As long as you don't have googles it should works fine...

2. when it's summer and you have sunglasses on

I guess that polarized sunglasses aren't iris scanners friendly, but I'm not sure either, just guessing...

3. when your phone is on a table and what you need to bend your head over the phone to unlock it?

Well yes, your iris have to be accessible by cam at certain angle..

4. What if I just want to peek at my lock screen, but do not want to unlock the device??

It will not unlock your phone from standby IMO, it just acts as pin replacement... so peek at your galance to see what the time is shouldn't unlock phone...

 

[wcpusr]

It will not unlock your phone from standby IMO, it just acts as pin replacement... so peek at your galance to see what the time is shouldn't unlock phone...

I mean the Lock screen with the wallpaper, not when the phone is locked. You press the wake up button and what the phone instantly unlocks?? Thats really stupid. I just want to see my wallpaper..

 

[Teo Bartulovic]

I mean the Lock screen with the wallpaper, not when the phone is locked. You press the wake up button and what the phone instantly unlocks?? Thats really stupid. I just want to see my wallpaper..

Not sure, just quesing, we just need to be patient a little bit more, we'll know everything in a couple of hours, at least I hope

 

[shparvez001]

How does this stupid Apple fingerprint alternative work
1. when you are outside in the winter and you have all these hats, scarfs on your head
?

During winter you will probably be using gloves also. So finger print scanner is also useless...

 

[Rezelius]

Starting off by calling it a "stupid Apple fingerprint alternative" isn't the best way to ask people for answers.

If you watched any of the reveal yesterday you would have had several questions answered.
1) Why would a hat or scarf affect how the phone scans your Iris? The apple fingerprint scanner doesn't work through gloves, which makes it a worse option in winter.
2) Don't know currently until someone tries the feature wearing sunglasses. *EDIT* This video seems to show it working through sunglasses:Iris Scanner
3) You can still unlock it via password, but are you really that annoyed that you have to tilt the phone slightly to unlock it? (We don't know currently how wide the depth of field is on the Iris scanner)
4) Both the 950 and 950XL have Glance on them so you can see your notifications which is the important part, no?

 

[hprvez]

It's a more secure and clearly (meTelephones hacked by 14 years old) more robust biometric access system, just to clarify it's not a gimmick. Advantages are: your iris won't be deformed after 10 minutes in the water, it won't get dirty, it's not bypassable with monkey fingers or nipples.. just to write a few.
Unbelievable how people can't understand such simple thinks themselves, if they ever wanted to

 

[astondg]

How does this stupid Apple fingerprint alternative work
1. when you are outside in the winter and you have all these hats, scarfs on your head

Should work fine as long as nothing, other than non-polarised sunglasses, are covering your eyes. A fingerprint scanner would likely not work in this situation because you would be wearing gloves.

2. when it's summer and you have sunglasses on

It is claimed to work fine with sunglasses (and vision correction glasses or contact lenses) as long as they aren't polarised.

3. when your phone is on a table and what you need to bend your head over the phone to unlock it?

This is the one that I think could be frustrating. A fingerprint scanner can unlock the phone at any angle and also while you are picking it up, so theoretically the phone will be unlocked by the time you pick it up. However with Glance and lockscreen notifications this might be less of a problem. I'm waiting to see some reviews and try it out for myself before I form an opinion.

4. What if I just want to peek at my lock screen, but do not want to unlock the device??

Personally I rarely, if ever, do this but I can see the issue for someone who does. The only reason I look at my home screen is for notifications which I can get with Glance. This may be less of a problem based on the result of 3. though. As long as you don't have the phone in the range/angle to unlock then you can see the wallpaper.

I think a combination fingerprint & iris scanner would be good, each has benefits. If you add in the ability to turn off the security/pin under certain conditions, like being in a location or connected to a certain WiFi network or Bluetooth device (as Android can do) then it would be a great solution.

 

[houkoholic]

This is the one that I think could be frustrating. A fingerprint scanner can unlock the phone at any angle and also while you are picking it up, so theoretically the phone will be unlocked by the time you pick it up. However with Glance and lockscreen notifications this might be less of a problem. I'm waiting to see some reviews and try it out for myself before I form an opinion.

But in practice a fingerprint scanner doesn't actually offer these advantages. Considering how you cannot put a full size fingerprint scanner on the front of a phone without 90% of the people all jump up and yell "OMFG THOSE THICK BEZELS AND WASTE SPACE UGLY DESIGN!!!!1111", while putting a fingerprint scanner on the back means you can't use it on the desk either unless you pick it up, and finally non-full size scanners takes a huge hit in accuracy, a fingerprint scanner is equally if not more frustrating and limiting in practice, just in different ways.

OTOH, the iris camera uses the FF camera, and provided that it has a wide enough focal length which usually FF do for selfie/video phone purpose, then in theory you can just casually look at the screen without having to bend right over the camera to get a direct alignment. So just imagine double tap to wake the phone, then look at the screen to unlock for desktop usage, iris should actually be not that much more frustrating. And yes, we also get the advantage of a clean front for the phone for design and maximise the screen to phone face ratio.

Until we get those promised sonic fingerprint scanners which can be directly integrated under the LCD screen then for desktop usage fingerprint scanners doesn't really offer much advantages if any.

 

[astondg]

But in practice a fingerprint scanner doesn't actually offer these advantages.

In practice the phones I have seen with a fingerprint scanner, like my parent's Galaxy S5 or my wife's iPhone 5s, do work exactly how I describe though. My wife has no problem unlocking her iPhone from 45+ degrees. In fact I was talking to a guy with an iPhone 6 at work, he was sitting at his desk looking at me, wanted to show me something so he picked up his phone with his thumb on the home button and by the time it was 1/2 way to his face it was already unlocked. That's pretty convenient.

I'm not making any judgements about the iris scanner yet, but the example above is the kind of convenience I'd hope for with biometric tech.

I can understand the bezel argument, but personal I don't care too much. Slim bezels are preferable but if they need to be bigger to fit a fingerprint scanner then I'm ok with that. I was actually blown away when that was the first thing people complained about in the 950/XL renders.

Again, I'm not saying 'phone must have fingerprint scanner'. I don't care what kind of biometric tech it's using, I just want convenience.

 

[houkoholic]

In practice the phones I have seen with a fingerprint scanner, like my parent's Galaxy S5 or my wife's iPhone 5s, do work exactly how I describe though. My wife has no problem unlocking her iPhone from 45+ degrees. In fact I was talking to a guy with an iPhone 6 at work, he was sitting at his desk looking at me, wanted to show me something so he picked up his phone with his thumb on the home button and by the time it was 1/2 way to his face it was already unlocked. That's pretty convenient.

Note that the phones you mention have front mounted scanners - these makes senses and I don't argue against these. But the current trend is to place the scanners on anywhere BUT the front (except Apple that is, because they can't change the iPhone design language easily, and Samsung is sort of following that path - but I've never found Samsung scanners as reliable as the Apple one FWIW). Mounting on the back is one of the most popular choices around right now regarding fingerprint scanners, which means one of the suggested scenario of "desk use" is already ruled out - because a back mounted fingerprint scanner means you have to pick up the phone anyway, so there is no advantage to fingerprint scanner in such a scenario over say facial or iris.

As for a dedicated space for a fingerprint scanner on the front - again this will matter a lot for a great portion of people, so it IS an important factor. If you have to increase the bottom bezel for 15~20mm just to accommodate a fingerprint scanner which serves no other purpose, you sacrifice many other things not only in terms of design language, but ergonomics and single-hand usage. So again, that is another factor against current fingerprint scanners in general.

Sony's new Xperia Z5 miniature scanner has been criticised to be spotty when it comes to placement and accuracy, so again, another point against non-fullsize fingerprint scanner. And swipe scanners is not even worth discussing because those definitely don't work at all angles.

The point I'm making here is that while the fingerprint scanner is a "hot trend" - it has it's own issues and is not the be-all-end-all in terms of biometrics, especially in the mobile front where its utility is current quite questionable in approx 95% of devices on the market that has them (the remaining 5% is Apple and Samsung). And I think Microsoft did the right thing by leap frogging it and choosing something else.

 

[astondg]

The point I'm making here is that while the fingerprint scanner is a "hot trend" - it has it's own issues and is not the be-all-end-all in terms of biometrics, especially in the mobile front where its utility is current quite questionable in approx 95% of devices on the market that has them (the remaining 5% is Apple and Samsung). And I think Microsoft did the right thing by leap frogging it and choosing something else.

Like I said, I don't care what tech is used. I'm not hung up on having a fingerprint scanner BUT I also don't think the iris scanner is the complete solution to the problem. It would appear, and this is still speculation, that the fingerprint scanners can still offer a convenience in situations that the iris scanner can't and that could be frustrating in some situations. Equally there's times, like when wearing gloves, that the fingerprint scanner would be frustrating.

I think biometrics generally is a "hot trend" and it's going to take a few generations of hardware to get something that offers a truly seamless experience. Ultimately I don't want to know anything about the hardware, I just want my phone to be highly secure but also immediately accessible every time I need it.

 

[houkoholic]

Like I said, I don't care what tech is used. I'm not hung up on having a fingerprint scanner BUT I also don't think the iris scanner is the complete solution to the problem. It would appear, and this is still speculation, that the fingerprint scanners can still offer a convenience in situations that the iris scanner can't and that could be frustrating in some situations. Equally there's times, like when wearing gloves, that the fingerprint scanner would be frustrating.

I think biometrics generally is a "hot trend" and it's going to take a few generations of hardware to get something that offers a truly seamless experience. Ultimately I don't want to know anything about the hardware, I just want my phone to be highly secure but also immediately accessible every time I need it.

I admire your fair and level-headed assessment to the biometrics situation in admitting that each solution has its own pros and cons and that it is the final result that matters rather than the tool that gets you there, but I can't say this line of thinking is shared among the tech blogsphere where everyone seems to hold fingerprint as the best and only option, as evident by the tone of the OP in this very thread.

Personally as someone who works with biometric technology, I know that fingerprint is the least secure and most privacy invading biometric out there, so I'd rather that it takes a back seat in comparison to other emerging technologies, rather than because "Apple does it" that everyone automatically holds it as the golden standard.