We want our Xbox hardware to win," Xbox CEO Phil Spencer talks moving games to PlayStation, and the future of Xbox consoles

[Windows Central]

In a new interview, Xbox CEO Phil Spencer described Microsoft's efforts to bring in more success to Xbox, even if it includes PlayStation.

We want our Xbox hardware to win," Xbox CEO Phil Spencer talks moving games to PlayStation, and the future of Xbox consoles : Read more

 

[Papictu]

This strategy seems like a suicide for the platform if the other companies don't do the same, if Playstation or Nintendo games don't start coming to Xbox soon, Xbox won't be competitive, no matter how many interesting features the hardware has.

I've been playing on Xbox for 20 years, I have a huge library of games here, many achievements unlocked... I don't want to go to another ecosystem, but right now it's hard not to leave, as a user what I see is that many games don't come to Xbox, there are no Xbox achievement versions of Wukong, Final Fantasy 7 or Silent Hill 2, let alone games like God of War or Uncharted... while Playstation gets all the games, Xbox ones included, in a very solid system, with trophies and library under the same profile.

I don't know how the future will be, but the present seems to me a disaster, Xbox Series is a disappointing platform with very few own games that add value and lack of identity, even with something as powerful as GamePass, if in a period of time that I do not know define the rest of companies do not start to bring their games to Xbox, I think the Xbox platform will disappear, that is very sad to me after so many years.

 

[bigbotz]

Why own a PC for gaming? I've never owned an Xbox for exclusive games. That's why I bought a Playstation. Xbox is for all the other games and they have the better services and since gamepass it's a no brainer.

 

[LumiaWin8]

Different people, different use cases and reasons
I follow my games, couldn't care less about achievements/trophies, ecosystems and what not.
the reason I switched from PS to Xbox was that Xbox supports backward compatibility much better/in-depth than PlayStation and I simply prefer the Xbox controller layout/fitting vs the PS ones.

"Everything is an Xbox"
I know the "everything is an Xbox" strategy is risky (and slightly misleading), but I welcome it very much.
A more fitting, but obviously less marketable slogan would be "play your games everywhere if you get your games trough the Xbox platform".

Xbox Platform wishes
PC Xbox/MS Store needs to have the same features as Steam as being able to install Mods and
the availability for the various game performances/fidelity improving technologies.

As for Xbox Mobile: a Halo product (not the game IP) handheld device showing off the capabilities, whether that's from Microsoft or in partnership with OEMs. Basically the Xbox OS/experience that exists on the console with the ability to integrate client/games from Steam and elsewhere, being able to install Mods like I can on PC with Steam and as a bonus a Windows desktop mode.

If I reverse this wish list, the ROG Ally X, Lenovo Legion and others basically allow for all that already, they just lack the Xbox OS/experience (boot up into game mode with controller input and the integration of the various launchers into one UI).

Exlcusive IP
I find exclusive IP/games annoying, whether timed or not. If it's due to limited resources, then I accept it, but if it's for exclusivity sake and platform lock in I hate it.

Forza Horizon's aside I don't have any (formerly) exclusive IP games from Xbox and the Spider-Man's apart I have neither on PlayStation. Both have become available on PC too. That's why it's my preferred platform. All my other games are available multiple platforms.

When Spider-Man was only available on PlayStation I hat to resort to buy a second hand PS4 and the Spider-Man game, played trough it, then resold it a couple of weeks later.

 

[fjtorres5591]

Seriously guys?
Still pearl clutching over exclusives?

If exclusivity is so important, why is Sony moving everything to PC? And fast.
Why is MLB THE SHOW on Game Pass?
Why did Kojima *pay* to get the right to put DEATH STRANDING on XBOX?

Why is Sony profit margin running 5% and XBOX (without ABK) 12% EA 14%, and ABK 17%? That is more like a Supermarket (4%) than a gaming company. Just a few yesrs ago Sony ran 9%.

If taking money for exclusives is so great why is SQUARE ENIX rushing to put FINAL FANTASY on XBOX? Why did they give away CRYSTAL DYNAMICS over a single failed game? Or why are other developers refusing Sony bribes and self-publishing?

Or, has anybody bothered to look at how many of Sony's vaunted 65 million consoles are actually running Sony software? SPIDER-MAN 2 sold 6 million (yay!) On a $240M budget. (Not so good.) That is less than 10%. They cancelled DLC and rushed it to PC. ASTROBOT sold less than 2 million. HORIZON 2, Ragnarok, and LAST OF US 2 all sold less than Spider-Man 2.

During the FTC trial it came out that 70% of all software running on PS5 is third party, 50% live service, much of it free to play. Which is why Sony rushed to develop 12 live service games, as much as XBOX had *before* ABK. And then discovered that they had neither the skill set nor the cash to try to catch up.

So where's the evidence that the only way to support a console is through exclusives?

The media focuses on the top numbers, total sales, but not on the one that matters, the bottom line which is what feeds the developers and shareholders.

XBOX is a stable, profitable, and growing business.
Sony is profitable for now but they've lost half their margin over three years and are still declining. The last absolute numbers had XBOX making as much money as Sony off half the number of consoles. Which tells you that Xbox-ers play more XBOX games, exclusive and multiplat, than Sony fans play Sony games.

The bottom line is what matters.
Because that is what keeps the console alive.

If nothing else, look to Ninja Gaiden 4 and remake: they only exist because XBOX had the money to pay for the publishing rights (at least) and at least part of the development costs. Maybe all, because Platinum Games hasn't been swimming in gold.
XBOX is healthy so stop whinging!

Sit back, enjoy the games, and wait til you see what comes next.
It might surprise you.

 

[fjtorres5591]

As to exclusives, lets forget the rumors and stick to "just the facts, ma'am".

First of all, there is the XBOX's top exclusive that will never be *allowed* on Sony or Nintendo hardware. And that is Game Pass. Seriously, it is a gaming live service, the logical evolution of live service games. So logical that EA and UBISOFT copied it.

Second, there are the games. What has actually moved from XBOX exclusive to multiplatform? For all the rumors, so far its only GROUNDED, PENTIMENT, HI FI RUSH, and SEA of thieves. One AA niche game, two old online multiplayer games, and (yes, I'll say it) a critically acclaimed commercial failure led MS to divest the studio and the one IP.

What else has moved?
Not HALO INFINITE, free to play on XBOX and PC.
Not STARFIELD, the much maligned "failure" that has *only* brought in $650M and a flood of mods both free and paid-for and lots and lots of continuing engagement. I'm pretty sure EA wouldn't mind that kind of "failure" for VEILGUARD. Or even MASS EFFECT 4. (Andromeda did 5million and maybe $300M.)

We just had a look at the full slate of first half 2025 for Game Pass and XBOX, DAY one:

NINJA GAIDEN BLACK a lapsed IP that was always multiplatform. It might still be absent but for XBOX.
AVOWED, new ip, exclusive.
SOUTH OF MIDNIGHT, new AA ip, exclusive. Might break out, might be niche.
EXPEDITION 33, new IP, third party, multiplatform.
DOOM DARK AGES, classic multiplatform ip.

Now, all of the above are available for sale outside Game Pass at full price, for 20% off via GAME PASS, or "free" to subscribers. Never tried NINJA GAIDEN? Its not for everybody, Neither is DOOM. Nor RPGs. Nor one and done 3rd person action games. But with Game pass you can try them all, via cloud no less, and see which you want to download and which to play. Along with 500 other titles, old and new.

That's two first party exclusives right there.
Dated and everything.
And you guys want more?

Sony has exactly one this year and that is all they're committed to. And nobody gripes.

XBOX is targeting four, with two in the bag already, with FABLE, a certainty, PERFECT DARK likely, and even GEARS OF WAR EDAY rumored.
so triple the exclusives of Sony and it is XBOX that gets the handwringing?
Because they're stealing money from Sony's ecosystem?

Are you guys insane? Probably not but come on!
Be reasonable.

MS is feeding the XBOX hardware platform a steady stream of varied exclusives while same time exploiting Sony's installed base to fund and grow their own ecosystem. Remember, the time the Sonys spend playing MS properties like COD, OVERWATCH, ELDER SCROLLS, FALLOUT 76, or SEA OF THIEVES is time they're not spending on Sony games.

So Sony has the media hype? Big deal, MS has the profits, the best games, and a lot their players locked up, paying "tribute" to XBOX coffers. (Cha-ching)

MS isn't stupid and what matters isn't the number of boxes sold but how much money they get from them and all available data says they get more from each XBOX sold than Sony gets off their boxes. The hardware business is safe. They're not going to give up on the $6-8B they get each year off the console users. Not stupid.

Instead of fretting about some hypothetical pivot, ignore the media, and just pick up the controller and play.

 

[fjtorres5591]

Btw, did anybody notice the shelf behind Spencer?
Yes, the prototype streaming box is still there but so is a sample XBOX EXCELLENCE AWARD.
Darn thing is BIG!

As Thanos said, "I'll do it myself."

 

[CrashTest]

All this does is guarantee i go from an Xbox customer since 2005 to never buying an Xbox again

 

[fjtorres5591]

All this does is guarantee i go from an Xbox customer since 2005 to never buying an Xbox again

Which is your right.
Just don't think you'll be missed.

You have to remember that XBOX and Playstations are sold at a loss or at best, near zero profit. The exception being the series S, which designed to sell at $200. So with the retailer getting 30% or so, they make a few bucks on it.

Ideally, they would sell the consoles only off their web site and break even that way. But that doesn't work. Most folks want to see the hardware personally.

The money is in the software and these days, with game development being so expensive and so many companies flooding the market with games, selling only to the console installed base is an iffy proposition at best.

Look at something like VEILGUARD: it's sold 1.5m units at $70 or so. Retailer gets at least 30% so its equivalent to only bringing in $75m or so. That game cost well over $100M. Red ink. And that is despite selling on XBOX, PS5, and PC. If it were a console exclusive it would only sell 500,000-600,000. It would have to sell 5-6 times more just to break even, which EA said was 3M units. On paper, that is 10% of XBOXes, yet even highly acclaimed Spider-Man 2 fell short of that on their side. And Veilguard was only highly acclaimed by IGA.

Spending $200M over 5 years on a game only to find the market doesn't want it is not good business. Sometimes you get and ELDEN RING or even a STARFIELD, but more often you get a Veilguard that takes years to break even. And sometimes you get a CONCORD that will never break even.

They're not doing it to cheese you off, they're doing it to survive.

 

[Lurking_Lurker_Lurks]

There's honestly not much for me to add. This is the strategy I've always wanted to see succeed in gaming and more than ever it looks like it's fast approaching. Even if Microsoft doesn't do it, Valve is right there creeping on everyone's shoulder. It's an exciting time to be a gamer because it feels like now more than ever the focus is on games and deliver the most value to gamers. The console market chose a circle jerk strategy of competition that served to divide gamers and turn them against one another, and we see what we're left with. In 3 decades Sony's peak remains the PS2 and that's the general peak for the entire console market. The best modern console is the Nintendo Switch, but frankly I want more than that for Xbox and gaming in general. I want way more than that. Nintendo banks it's success on balancing a traditional model with controlled costs while increasing prices to match the rest of the market. Gamers deserve more.

Microsoft's battle will be two fold: changing the narrative in an entrenched market and piercing the zeitgeist outside of gaming like never before. Time will tell if they succeed, but I certainly want them to. I think the gaming industry as a whole would benefit from an approach that doesn't glorify walled garden hardware, which struggled to justify their own existence outside of exclusives and already loyal consumer bases. Xbox consoles 100% should be selling because they offer the best value to consumers due to value in hardware, features, and overall ecosystem. Games should be as available as possible for as many gamers as possible and simialry sell based on their own merit. Again, who can tell how things play out, but I think if Xbox executes it well (and markets it even better) then they have the winning strategy to become a leader in the gaming industry and entertainment world as a whole.

This also comes at a time when their direct competition is struggling with exclusives. Third party partners have pulled out of exclusivity with Sony (some very publicly saying it's just a bad strategy now) with more doing so constantly. First party is struggling to have a steady stream of releases as Sony drags their heal of multiplatform and their margins continue to shrink. The Playstation live service plan has bombed hard with only Helldivers 2 taking off (and you could also give them Destiny 2 post bungie purchase as they do fund and earn money from it now). Most of their projects have canceled internally or been shut down post release. Entire studios have been purchased and closed now because of the live service push.

The entire console market is flat. Xbox is attempting to chase a different strategy entirely wanting to grow as a gaming company and not just a game console. Their success will 100% depend on the execution though. For example right now more Xbox consoles should be selling than ever. The console has factually gained more former exclusives from PS and Nintendo and are seeing more day one releases than ever. More so than the handful of exclusive franchises they could even make multiplatform. The Series Consoles also offer the best hardware with features like FPS boosts making even older generation games run better. The Series S is the perfect console for people who don't own any game console and either game solely on mobile/PC or not at all. Game Pass continues to offer the best deal in gaming with most benefits being on console. The poor sales Xbox is seeing comes down to poor marketing, not a multiplatform strategy that only JUST became rumored in 2024. If Microsoft wants to execute this strategy right they have to go ALL IN on PC, Console, Cloud, and mobile (especially mobile where they have the least control and foothold). They can't lax which is what I think really happened when the ABK aquistion was going through and that cost them a lot. Going forward though all of Xbox has to be on the same page and it has to work to execute their strategy to the best of their ability.

 

[Hsg]

MS isn't stupid and what matters isn't the number of boxes sold but how much money they get from them and all available data says they get more from each XBOX sold than Sony gets off their boxes. The hardware business is safe. They're not going to give up on the $6-8B they get each year off the console users. Not stupid.

Instead of fretting about some hypothetical pivot, ignore the media, and just pick up the controller and play.

The thing is MSFT can be too unpredictable. Those console users are Xbox One and Xbox series users, but there will be a time in which those Xbox One users will move on, especially with GTA VI. If the majority of those users decide to move to PS, is MSFT gonna continue investing in hardware with a shrinking userbase?

 

[fjtorres5591]

The thing is MSFT can be too unpredictable. Those console users are Xbox One and Xbox series users, but there will be a time in which those Xbox One users will move on, especially with GTA VI. If the majority of those users decide to move to PS, is MSFT gonna continue investing in hardware with a shrinking userbase?

Why would they move to a box that won't play the games they paid hundreds of dollars for? And what makes you think GTA VI will only run on PS?

MS will keep on making consoles for the same reason PS owners don't switch just because they're not getting more than one first party exclusive. They are locked in by their back catalog. And 30-40m XBOX owners are a significant chunk of the AAA game market. In raw numbers, almost 40%. In actual spending the numbers suggest the average XBOXer plays more games than the average PS owner. Remember, several millions of PS owners only play COD. (Revealed during the FTC trial.)

You don't have to be number one to be successful and you don't need bragging online and posturing to enjoy a deep catalog of new games.

 

[Syphious]

Maybe it's time for Microsoft to finally start going back to it's roots. Make Windows, Windows again. A personal computer. No ads, No stupid crap included, make the slightly more utilitarian Explorer features enabled by default because people who are just now learning new Win11 are confused as heck as to why it's regressed (Quick access, File explorer settings, right click being half gutted and having to choose another dialogue to get to the real right click menu.) Then there's the absolute failure of a platform that is the Microsoft Store and just as bad, The Xbox App platform or whatever name it has this time!

Seriously, You know what worked for a Windows gaming system? As terrible as it was, Windows Vista was pretty good when it worked flawlessly (Rare, yes) but damn. The Xbox app doesn't feel like its a native part of Windows. It feels like an afterthought instead of being integrated or side loaded into windows. But hey, maybe that wouldn't work because Windows optimization these day's seems totally out of whack while forcing their users out of their old operating systems that lets face it, Were better for the user to actually use for newbies and advanced user's every day.

Bring back windows Aero effects, focus on enhancing and simplifying the user experience back to the actual basic functions of an operating system that's self explanatory. People cling to the old OS's for a reason and then MS wonders why no one wants to take it for free even! It's absurd and insanity!

Cause this delves right back into Xbox, Even if a game is actually great you possibly have to run the gambit of having to use the Xbox Store App or Microsoft Store. Both of which are horrible apps that feel like cheap afterthoughts. A true app instead of a program, it doesn't feel reliable or polished nor does it empower the user to easily interpret and interact within interfaces on a consistent basis. Now it matters because there more PC gamers than ever, I've been hoping for years to see a like "Xbox Windows" OS that is optimized for gaming with regular but more utilitarian Windows functions and settings. It needs new life before you bleed your users for all we can deal with just because the alternatives may be more inconvenient.

You guys have done it before, You can pull it off again but everything is just so unnecessarily overcomplicated and mono toned with like settings menu. It looks too much like a tablet but most don't have a touchscreen, however it still is designed for that.. On startup of Windows just offer the user the option to choose between like a TRUE classic Windows or Mobile styles, everything is already there right?

Back to basics please is all, make the system more stable, security I think has been great but the user experience is just not reliable or as easily navigable. Everyone I know regularly has to Google how to change basic user settings that used to be easy like it doesn't have to be so overdone..

If you guys are going to really market this "Everything is an Xbox" then the software side needs to be solid, reliable, easy and intuitive to use.

 

[fatpunkslim]

@fjtorres5591 :You said it all, I don't have much to add. Many don't realize that Xbox already has more exclusive games than PlayStation, they simply produce more games, more multiplatform games, and more exclusive games. When Phil Spencer says he will continue to send more games to other platforms, of course, where's the problem? Who said he was stopping exclusive games? Even if they are temporary exclusives, it's the same, who wants to play a game 2 years later? It's enough to attract players to buy their own hardware!

And we add to that: Game Pass, which is Xbox's biggest exclusivity, Play Anywhere, cross-save, and the upcoming hardware capabilities of the new Xbox console, and Xbox has plenty of opportunities to sell more consoles, even if it's not the main priority (and it won't be for anyone in the future). Moreover, when Phil Spencer says he believes in "hardware capabilities," there must be something disruptive behind it for him to say that with such confidence, it surely means that the next generation will mark a big change and that the rumors about opening consoles to other stores like Steam are probably true.

That said, the issue I see is marketing. We can't say that the media helps to clarify things, almost no one mentions that PlayStation produces very few games, that they lose many exclusive games and that most of them end up on Xbox (FF, Sifu, Kena, Forspoken, Death Stranding), that there are ultimately more former PlayStation exclusive games on Xbox than the other way around, that Xbox has an insane lineup, both in exclusive games and multiplatform games. Xbox tax is a fact !

It's still crazy that some people ask the question 'why buy an Xbox if there are no exclusive games' when in reality there are more exclusive games on Xbox. We should rather ask the question 'why buy a PS5?' since they make very few games and have fewer and fewer exclusive games. It's all a matter of perception and media communication. (Not to mention the other reasons to buy an Xbox as already mentioned: Game Pass, Play Anywhere, Quick Resume, etc.)

But outside of the media, it's up to Xbox to communicate, they really need to go all out on marketing for Game Pass, too many people still don't know that games like Indiana Jones, Doom, Black Ops 6, etc., land day one on Game Pass. Even if they make multiplatform games, communicate about your exclusive games, it's also a strength, even if for some games it's temporary.

The best advertisement for Xbox is the games and the quality of their games, and on that, we can say that there has been a clear positive gap in the quality of the games.

And Phil Spencer, please, stop answering interviews, you talk too much, the questions are biased and the answers are then distorted. Conferences like the Xbox Developer Direct, marketing campaigns around the games, partnership with other brands, are much more effective than any interview, stay a bit in the shadows please because you ruin everything with your desire to expose yourself. What's the point of saying that other games will come to other platforms, of course, we understood, you're stating the obvious, but in reality, by saying that, your message is distorted and it doesn't send a good signal.

 

[fatpunkslim]

@Jez Corden In Destin interview, Phil Spencer guarantees: not all Xbox games will be released on other platforms:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1883944660298784816

Who was right? Who will make a mea culpa? Jez, we're all waiting for an answer from you! I say this without animosity, but you would come out stronger if you admitted you were wrong on this point!

1. Yes There will be more Xbox games on Nintendo and PlayStation
2. No. It won't be all Xbox games
3. Many games will launch on Xbox first, and then MS will decide if they port them to other consoles OR NOT

You're not the only one who was wrong, this breaks the narrative of many so-called insiders and influencers. Xbox confirms that they will continue to make exclusive games AND multiplatform games. A strategy that I have always defended from the beginning because I know very well that it is the strategy they have been following from the start. Many have confused the fact of releasing more multiplatform games with a gradual end to exclusive games, which is not the case, a balance will be maintained. One does not exclude the other, with all the Xbox studios, they can afford to do both without any problem, which is a very good strategy!