Where does W10 leave Windows RT tablets?

[poiman]

Just a quick question. Since the charms bar is gone, how do you search or share inside a full screen app now?

 

[ajst222]

As far as RT goes, Microsoft is done with it. And it appears that Microsoft will be done with tablets running a "mobile" OS, and I think that's a good thing. They're still competing with the iPad and Android tablets, but Windows tablets will have the upper hand as they run full Windows.

 

[ajst222]

Just a quick question. Since the charms bar is gone, how do you search or share inside a full screen app now?

Swipe down from the top (or put the mouse pointer at the top of the screen), and you'll see the hamburger menu

 

[jwpear]

I completely agree with the original poster. I installed the January preview last night on my Dell XPS 12--which is a 2-in-1 that I thought would be good to test this build with. I was shocked at how poorly this latest build of Windows 10 works as a tablet OS. I sort of expected it to be better in this release. I understood MS was initially focusing on the desktop/enterprise users, but thought the consumer focus would be more apparent in this release--that's how folks billed this week's event. This release is disappointing.

Here's where I think it is bad:

1. The touch focused start menu looks like a garbled mess of ideas. I have a list of apps and a mess of different groups of apps that seem to be haphazardly placed around. The start tiles are too small for touch and there is a lot of wasted space. It all just feels amateurish.
2. The keyboard doesn't automatically pop up (or go away when no longer needed) in any app.
3. There is no Metro/Universal IE. Wow, I didn't realize just how much I love Metro IE--chromeless browsing, swipe to go back. And that beautiful touch keyboard just pops up automatically when I go to type in a URL or form field in Metro IE--amazing and I miss it.
4. Every app starts in windowed mode, even if my XPS is in tablet mode. I thought continuum was in this build.
5. App switching is a nightmare in tablet mode. Who the heck, other than the desktop users, want to have to move their hands from the side to tap on an app in the MIDDLE of the screen. It just ruins the smooth experience. It was nearly perfect in Windows 8.1. It would have been perfect if they had included individual desktop apps in the app list.
6. There's no swipe from the right to get to the start menu and other settings. I get notification center--a great idea--but not what I want to see on the right side every time I swipe with my left thumb. Why can't start, settings, and notifications all be there in some form? Granted, all of my devices still have the start button on the button, long side. This may be less of an issue with newer hardware.

I can't believe it, but I think the current incarnation of Windows 10 makes Windows 8.1 look wonderfully refined for touch hardware--dedicated tablets and 2-in-1's. I did not expect that to happen. I'm puzzled why the touch interactions had to be undone to make the desktop experience better. I could see improving desktop and refining touch, but why completely take away what was working well for touch? It almost seems like they're just doing things just to be different from the Windows 8 team and not really thinking about their users.

Before folks start bashing, I use both desktop and touch. My family and I use true desktops/laptops and multiple touch devices, including a Surface Pro, Surface 2, Acer Iconia W3 (piece of crap I picked up at Build), and the aforementioned XPS 12. I'm a developer and a heavy desktop user, so I understand the issues Windows 8 desktop users have (although I easily adapted). I also love both Surface devices and use them regularly. I think 2-in-1s are brilliant. And I think the touch experience in 8.1 is fantastic, so much so that my iPad 2 just collects dust.

I very much understand this is a work in progress and things may get worse before they get better. We're seeing true work in progress--the dirty mess we all have as we're refining things in development. But as a developer, I don't quite understand why they would undo so much of the touch user's experience to improve the desktop user's experience. I'm crossing my fingers that it is just a work in progress and it will get better. I fear that they may just swing too far back to the desktop and touch may be back to the second class citizen it was before Windows 8. I believe the 2-in-1 is the only way MS will remain viable in the consumer space. If they can't pull that off and have Windows work well for both desktop and touch users, I don't believe they will make it. Say what you will, but MS must win over the younger users. If they do not, the Windows will die and Chrome OS/Android will be the Enterprise OS in 10-15 years. As we've seen with Windows 8/8.1, virtually no one (except we enthusiasts) is going to buy a Windows tablet.

A few hours of playing certainly isn't enough for me to form a good opinion, so I'll play around with it more and log my thoughts with Microsoft. Hopefully, they will improve the touch experience.

 

[jwpear]

more people that want Zune back

I have been trying really hard to like Xbox Music. I force myself to use it because I want to be one of the eight people that support Microsoft and Xbox Music. But is it no Zune! Bring back Zune as a universal app!

Is there an Xbox Music API? Maybe we should just write a Zune app using their APIs.

 

[ajst222]

I have been trying really hard to like Xbox Music. I force myself to use it because I want to be one of the eight people that support Microsoft and Xbox Music. But is it no Zune! Bring back Zune as a universal app!

Is there an Xbox Music API? Maybe we should just write a Zune app using their APIs.

As someone who's never used Zune, why do people like Zune over Xbox Music so much? I'm honestly really interested...what are the differences?

 

[jwpear]

There are a lot of people that had no business installing this Tech Preview.

I'm probably misreading you, but it sounds as though you're suggesting they should only get feedback from desktop loving cheerleaders. This week's event and preview was billed as showing more of the consumer features. I jumped in with physical hardware this time--my Dell XPS 12 2-in-1--so that I could provide meaningful feedback about my experience with the preview. I have done that and will continue to experiment with it.

Microsoft should get honest feedback about where they're going, even if it upsets some.

 

[jwpear]

Things that bug me about Xbox Music:
1. It's harder to discover music.
2. There are no song popularity rankings within an album, which would help some with music discovery.
3. It duplicates playlists across devices.
4. It duplicates songs in playlists.
5. It drops songs from playlists.
6. Songs go from being on device to only in the cloud collection.
7. If you delete a song, it deletes everywhere, not just the device or playlist.

It is so freaking frustrating that I'm about ready to give up on it.

Keep in mind, I use Xbox Music on both Windows and Windows Phone. And I do have both a personal song collection and an Xbox Music pass.

 

[TheCudder]

I'm probably misreading you, but it sounds as though you're suggesting they should only get feedback from desktop loving cheerleaders. This week's event and preview was billed as showing more of the consumer features. I jumped in with physical hardware this time--my Dell XPS 12 2-in-1--so that I could provide meaningful feedback about my experience with the preview. I have done that and will continue to experiment with it.

Microsoft should get honest feedback about where they're going, even if it upsets some.

It's plain to see Microsoft hasn't worked much on the tablet side of things thus far. So calm down. Just look, Microsoft intentionally disabled the "Boot to start screen" option and the "Spartan" browser is not packaged yet --- this build is currently still focusing on the Desktop side of things. We're still far from seeing the completed product. And as someone already mentioned, I don't believe Microsoft gave us the latest build like they may have planned to --- haven't you noticed a lot of the screen shots shown at the event gave us a very different looking Windows 10? Spartan, translucent/areo start menu, WP styled "one color" tiles for the system apps.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

I am also fearful of how the tablet functionality on my Surface Pro 3 might be impacted. I have the preview installed in Parallels on my Mac and I really hope that this is less desktop centric than it seems. I also agree that 8.1 is great on a tablet and I too no longer use my iPad and I gave my Note 10.1 2014 away as the experience on my Surface is far superior. Yes, the Surface is closer hardware wise to being a laptop, but I have an awesome laptop (15 Retina MBP) already, and I did not buy the Surface to use primarily as a laptop. Actually, I use it mainly as a tablet and as a desktop when docked. Hopefully tablet focused updates are still coming. Also, I hope that you can hide the taskbar in tablet mode and also that title bars are not there.

 

[missionsparta]

I am also fearful of how the tablet functionality on my Surface Pro 3 might be impacted. I have the preview installed in Parallels on my Mac and I really hope that this is less desktop centric than it seems. I also agree that 8.1 is great on a tablet and I too no longer use my iPad and I gave my Note 10.1 2014 away as the experience on my Surface is far superior. Yes, the Surface is closer hardware wise to being a laptop, but I have an awesome laptop (15 Retina MBP) already, and I did not buy the Surface to use primarily as a laptop. Actually, I use it mainly as a tablet and as a desktop when docked. Hopefully tablet focused updates are still coming. Also, I hope that you can hide the taskbar in tablet mode and also that title bars are not there.

Yeah, for some reason the task bar in tablet seems to bothers me also. Should just make it an option and make everyone happy.

 

[JamesDax]

I hope everyone here are actually reporting their bugs and things they do and don't like to MS. That is the whole point of this tech preview.

 

[GreenScrew]

I agree completely, REALLY hoping Microsoft has lots of work left on the touch side. I too expected way more progress on touch. It might be enough that I won't need to uninstall like I did with the first preview (clearly meant only for desktop experience) but its not good and has a long ways to go....

 

[missionsparta]

I agree completely, REALLY hoping Microsoft has lots of work left on the touch side. I too expected way more progress on touch. It might be enough that I won't need to uninstall like I did with the first preview (clearly meant only for desktop experience) but its not good and has a long ways to go....

So many people hung up on the un-needed start button, that they are praising this tossed together mess. 8.1 had a purpose. The direction 10 is headed, it seems they are just trying to make the loudest group ('I NEED A START BUTTON!') happy, at the cost of bastardizing the whole vision they originally had.

 

[Jorge Holguin]

To a better place and future.

 

[JamesDax]

To a better place and future.

With less crying I hope.

 

[missionsparta]

With less crying I hope.

Nope. The 'Start Button People' cried loud and long until they bastardized this thing.... I'm crying loud and long until they put this train back on the tracks.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

Nope. The 'Start Button People' cried loud and long until they bastardized this thing.... I'm crying loud and long until they put this train back on the tracks.

You're goin to be crying for a long time, then.

 

[TheCudder]

So many people hung up on the un-needed start button, that they are praising this tossed together mess. 8.1 had a purpose. The direction 10 is headed, it seems they are just trying to make the loudest group ('I NEED A START BUTTON!') happy, at the cost of bastardizing the whole vision they originally had.

While you're not alone in feeling this way, you're part of the minority. With that being said, don't get stuck on the functionality of the current build as it's not final. I'm one of the many who wanted the start menu back, but I also realize it's current design is a step backwards compared to the Windows 8.1 start screen for touch devices. Instead of ranting, try to look at what Microsoft's goal is for Windows 10 (an OS that is friendly for mobile and desktop devices) and come up with an intuitive and innovative way to create and design a start menu and screen that will work for both user bases. And submit those ideas to Microsoft through the feedback app. Windows Central would be a great place for you you all to brain storm as a community, but the ranting and crying isn't going to help the quality of the final product.

 

[Tyler Swindell]

I definitely gave feedback to Microsoft that the tablet experience looks and sounds terrible. I have a Surface 2 but from seeing it running on the tablets, I feel like the tablet experience is turning really bad. The taskbar should not have a start button when a physical hardware key is present, it also should ditch the notification area and place the time in the top right hand corner of the screen. The action center should be swiped in. And Cortana could be moved to the right hand of the taskbar, to make room for the apps. The taskbar should only be visible on the Continuum start screen, and when swiped in.


Now back to desktops, that experience is utter crap lol. First of all I loved the Longhorn vision for WPF applications and WinRT obviously builds on that for phones and tablets, but now with desktops, the UI elements need A LOT of work...The settings app looks huge. That new date/time display that was hidden in 9926 looks huge, it takes up half the height of the display. The universal apps in general are too huge and this knocks productivity and usability with having to maximize all the windows because they are too oversized to be in small windows or even medium sized windows. They should only be that big once you switch to tablet mode. And I'm on a 1080p monitor, which is the norm.