Why can't WP take off?

[jlzimmerman]

I will agree that buying in bulk is a factor. Dell and HP have been big in that market for Enterprise. Another issue for Mac is just program availability. Many of our programs that are essential to our core business aren't available on Mac. Lack of programs hinders market growth......WP phone says "I hear you!" : /

 

[iamtim]

AAPL had iPod and Google had search/gmail/etc ... MSFT had no consumer-oriented ecosystem.

Just out of curiosity, why did you use AAPL and MSFT but not GOOG?

 

[N_LaRUE]

I will agree that buying in bulk is a factor. Dell and HP have been big in that market for Enterprise. Another issue for Mac is just program availability. Many of our programs that are essential to our core business aren't available on Mac. Lack of programs hinders market growth......WP phone says "I hear you!" : /

That's true, but what Mac does have is the basics for the majority of people and then some. Something WP used to claim but the basics with smarthones is simply not good enough where as with a Mac it's a bit different. Let's not forget the image thing as well.

 

[flyingsolid]

I think this thread has already covered many of the points (promotion, flagship devices, etc etc), but I will go ahead and put in my two cents.

The user interface for Windows Phone is great but I feel the core user experience is still lacking. Windows Phone has not had a proper growth towards a robust and mature OS, in my opinion. Carrier rollout delays and update compatibility, regardless of what Microsoft says, are additional factors which make people consider waiting to buy a new Windows Phone device.

The other point of concern is the app gap. It is definitely there and it is hard to find 1 for 1 equivalents of secondary but useful apps you use on another platform. Microsoft should try the "Built for Windows 10" app label.

I do believe with Windows 10 many of the concerns will be addressed, resulting in a overall ecosystem push at that time. But until then, the devices themselves will have to do the selling and the current devices have no clear tiers.

 

[Bodeanicus]

Maybe for some, but not all. For us, it's because of flexibility. Our own CIO even said that mac in its current form does not have a place in Enterprise while Apple continues to lock down the OS. We administrators demand tools and adaptability make my 12,000+ employee company run smooth, and that requires the ability to make software, firmware and hardware tweaks. Cost is not an issue. Money is easily spent in piles if it means less O&M costs in the long run. In addition, Mac simply doesn't have the software depth Windows has. My site alone runs over 300 different programs, half of which are heavy industrial engineering programs which would choke a Mac.

C'mon, man. You know good and well Macs are the same internal hardware as any Wintel box. The only difference is your software isn't written for OS X. Your CIO is covering his *** on costs, and there's nothing wrong with that. But don't imply the hardware can't handle it.

 

[iamtim]

C'mon, man. You know good and well Macs are the same internal hardware as any Wintel box... But don't imply the hardware can't handle it.

In my experience, Apple makes the best mass-produced Windows machines on the market. I have never had a more stable Windows experience than I did on an i5 powered iMac.

 

[Pierre Blackwell]

With most making great points on this thread, I want to provide some retrospective. Not to undermine any of the already mentioned concerns, I want to ask a rhetorical question. How many of us on this thread, and many like this, have gotten someone interests in WP to the extent of either raising their intrigue and consideration of switching or has completely switched ecosystems?? Quite a few I bet, myself included. I'm sure if we really took a census and tallied the metrics, the statistics would indicate that the enthusiasm of WP increases when those are in contact with people well educated in the WP ecosystem. So what does this suggest? Why would anyone choose WP with the app gap, shallow infrastructure, sketchy carrier buy-in and any of the other points of concern? Why are we using it now? Perception is reality for the general public, but like most information, has some exaggeration to the reality.
We as WP users can provide people with an accurate take on the ecosystem. What's still a work in progress but more importantly what are positives now. Most people don't even know what my 1520 is, but they're instantly intrigued to find out once they see the start screen display. It's fresh and unique and active. I then tell them about the live tiles and how you can adjust the size based on the capacity of information you want. Customization features nonexistent on iOS or Android. I talk about the social integration and how its unparalleled on the other platforms. I centralized, easy to read location for all your social networks. Cortana, another big eye opener and the camera. I end with the disclaimers. I mention an app gap, but again I explain what that means. Ultimately the decision is made based on pros, and cons. I find the source is providing the right information and letting the consumers choose...we know unfortunately that's not happening. This is a bigger issue than we realize and even after the one Windows unified vision is,fully integrated unless educated people on the ecosystem are providing input at the retail level things wont change much.

 

[jlzimmerman]

C'mon, man. You know good and well Macs are the same internal hardware as any Wintel box. The only difference is your software isn't written for OS X. Your CIO is covering his *** on costs, and there's nothing wrong with that. But don't imply the hardware can't handle it.

If Apple made the required hardware....and that's my point regarding hardware. You guys are thinking common machines. You can try to paint it any way you want to, but there are certain analytic programs which are too hardware intensive for any given Mac you can currently buy. It's a fact. The hardware needed throughout our fleet is that which Apple-does-not-make. Existing Apple hardware would fail fabulously. This hardware also has cyber security requirements as dictated by the federal government.......which again also requires OS tweaks to work with our data diode appliances, which once again Apple restricts.

 

[iamtim]

The hardware needed throughout our fleet is that which Apple-does-not-make.

Ok, spill. What sort of hardware is needed throughout your fleet?

 

[Torontonian22]

Just to give more depth at my previous post where I already covered the ****ty MS marketing plan (as well as others).

I was wondering if any of you have seen the promo video for the app called "Sway"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw-g6IuBVJE

In this video, MS shows how much they don't care about WP. The future app is running on iPhone (first device we see), PC, iPad and Surface. At least, that's what the video shows. I'm pretty sure the app will run on other platforms. However, if you want to show that your app is cross platform, show ALL the platforms that are supported. If you are not sure, at least do not advertise your competitors.

This means the app will be ready for iPhone before being ready for WP. Even if you don't care about Sway, it shows what MS thinks about us. We are not their priority and WP is not what they would like to push out. Once again, this is just an example of poor marketing. MS already developed the portable version of office for iPad first... now most of MS apps will de developped for IOS and Android first and maybe WP later.

 

[salmanahmad]

I apologise if I hurt any die hard Windows Phone fans here, but I have a list of reasons why I believe Windows Phone doesn't take off and some suggestions to go along with them as we'll.

Windows Phone is a bit odd of an OS. Android is often described as a complicated but highly customisable and functional software whereas iOS is described as a much simpler phone that just works.

Windows Phone is nor as easy to use as iOS, nor as functional as some other OSes out there it has nothing going for it.

But...this could be used for marketing to show what Windows Phone is truly good at - providing a balance between simplicity, beauty and customisation but I have yet to see this sort of thing advertised(they have mentioned it in a few YouTube videos though).

Moving onwards and elaborating on the same point, Windows Phone or at least part of it has revolved around photography and I'll admit that it did a much better job than Android for as long as I can remember. But sadly they've fallen short there as well, with iOS taking the lead again with arguably the best camera API out there that is used to create amazing apps like Instagram Hyperlapse.

And then once you overcome those shortcomings you'll be faced with a massive shortage of applications, primarily quality gaming titles. And that's not all...even if you find your necessary apps they'll usually be months behind their iOS and Android counterparts.

Once you've come ahead of the apps and games, then there is the social aspect, the likely scenario is that most of your friends own either an Android or iOS device and you'll feel left out or even ridiculed for having a Windows Phone.

Plus Microsoft's services aren't offered in many countries, case in point Cortana and HERE Maps(I'm sure there are others) and you can't use Google services either.

Linus Sebastian, arguably one of the funniest and most well educated reviewers also conveys his thoughts about Windows Phone in this video: http://youtu.be/c3AgcltUM9s

And lastly Windows Phone is still somewhat playing catch up with Android and iOS, lacking quite a lot of features that the competition has.
I'm sure there are aspects Windows Phone does better, the cameras is one things, but to make a phone or OS sell well you need to excel in most things not just a few.

This is what I believe, I have more reasons but I'm sure no one would want to read a much longer post. Again, I can be wrong but this is what I think having used Windows Phone for some time.

 

[colinkiama]

It's three things imo. App gap, Microsoft not prioritising WP and perception of WP(I'm not even sure who it was made for in the first place. People even think windows 8=windows phone 8.) it's not impossible for WP to take off however if Microsoft aren't doing anything to solve this problem, why would US carriers bother to sell the flagships? Why would people want to buy a windows phone?

 

[Ebaneeezor]

I agree with Pierre - Xbox was way late to the game. Just because a market is saturated does not mean its not worth getting into, it just means its a proven market

 

[stephen_az]

I think the carrier exclusives are the biggest issue. I'm guessing you are in Canada, based upon your avatar. I believe that only Rogers has the 1520. It would probably be more successful if Bell and Telus also carried it.

It's the same here in the US. AT&T is the only carrier that has the 1520. T-Mobile, Verizon and Sprint do not have it.

Personally, I consider the perpetual mention of carrier exclusives to be a tired, ill informed, and very lame excuse. It ranks up there with the conspiracy stuff with respect to actual basis in reality. The modern smartphone market in the US was born out of a carrier exclusive - AT&T's deal with Apple. Carriers like those deals because it gives them something to market as an edge and they will continue to push them.

A product that everyone carries is also one that forces the carrier to cut margins and focus even more on the things that sell best. Do people really think that just having the same Windows Phones on all carriers will suddenly make everyone want the devices? I am sorry but what it would mean is the WP devices would get lumped in with all of the generic low selling LG, Sony, HTC, most Samsung (non-Galaxy) etc., etc., Android devices and the focus would still be on the Samsung and Apple premium offerings because that is where the market share is. The fact is you need to actually already have the market share before being everywhere actually helps. Otherwise, you are just another minor market player on the side shelf in the VZW or AT&T store.

With that said, from my perspective, the reason the platform has not taken off in the US is people are generally satisfied (or at least comfortable) with what they already own. Microsoft was late to the game and mostly is limited to slow growth from new adopters of smart phones; those grabbing pay as you go or other entry level devices; people who have had problems with another platform; or the dwindling Blackberry crowd. Those do not comprise the majority of the market at this time.

Quite frankly, waiting to see Apple's or Samsung's massive year on year growth of years past is also just silly. They don't even see that kind of growth anymore when you look at the hard numbers. Slow and steady growth is reality - it also is not a bad thing. This is not a sports event, it is business.

 

[ShinraCorp]

So I'm here on my 1520 and a thought just occurred to me. This OS (not to mention a great of a phone in the 1520) is simply unbeatable.

It's smooth and fluid. Must of all i love how it communicates my information whether it be Live Tiles, OS integration with Cortana, our through Office 365. In Office all my stuff in my cloud or the lady thing I viewed in Word is right there! The OS has Wordflow, tells me my flight information, and runs my presentations. But its not just that it can do all these things and more...its how it does it. This gets back to MS vision of cloud and mobile. You've The screen is so vibrant and my camera kicks ***. heard it all before. Oh and unlike some I beehive in Windows 10.

Tonight while out everybody kept looking at my phone and asking me questions as I took some great shots. They never seen it or even heard of it before... really?!

Anyway I'm confused. Why isn't WP getting any love? I don't care what anybody says this OS is the best. In fact it's not even close. Is it the apps? Marketing? Slow start? What?

Byrese, let's talk Canadian to Canadian and you'll know why right off the bat why it's not taking off here. Windows Phone works pretty well in some countries (India, Brazil, some European countries) but the problem with us, are the carriers, Bell, Rogers and Telus barely market off windows phone and let's not forget that our population is aging, they will listen to the salesman/saleswoman in which they have next to 0 knowledge about Windows Phone. They listen to their advice so they always purchase an Android, iOS or Blackberry device because that's what they're familiar with. Let's not forget the name Windows runs a sour taste in their mouths because they only remember the operating system that crashes on their desktop (they're not tech-savvy )

I myself try to promote Windows Phone as much as I can. My father was interested since I told him about HERE Drive doesn't require an Internet Connection once the maps are downloaded, so his next phone will be a Windows Phone. It's these tiny little details that makes it sell out. Office while free on Windows Phone is severely featureless. It's best just to read the office files instead of making them on the phone.

I also want to develop apps but my personal finances doesn't allow me to invest time in learning and developing Windows Phone. Once I do have a stable income, I'll finish learning and then start making apps. (Mostly games though )

You can do your part by promoting Windows Phone to your friends and family. The best marketing has always been mouth to ear. It's just that Microsoft and the carriers didn't really help out with the initial marketing (or lack of). I mean I saw I think 3 Windows Phone users besides me in my life. It's a fantastic OS and no one should be shy in showing it off.

Also it wouldn't hurt that the 1520 is actually available instead of importing it

 

[Jazmac]

It doesn't seem as if the people that market this phone are connected to the age group it seeks to appeal to. Even the way they market the Surface RT was a combination of Rube Goldberg and the Radio City Rockettes. Yes the keyboard can snap into place but no one considers dancing on tables to make that happen. Fail.

Microsoft seriously needs to get back to the people they intend to capture because it will be those youthful types today that will keep this franchise bubbling in the future. I think with Nadella in place, we have yet to see how to turns this cruise ship around but so far, he seems less nimble than even his predecessor Steve Balmer. And I'm a big Balmer fan. He couldn't dance but weather you agree or not, Balmer got it done. I'm willing to give this new cat time to marshal the troops but not much time. Especially where this phone is concerned.

This current batch is the Balmer era. Balmer was at least able to get WP on the map to 4 percent.

2015, the ball is in Nadella's court. So far, all he is capable of doing is being controversial where women at Microsoft is concerned. I'll give it to the end of the first quarter of 2015. What I want to see if an actual production model of Windows Phone. This phone is still beta and as much as it is stable, it is still BETA. Make this damn phone look like you give a crap about it. Show me a control panel with options and alphabetize it for god sake. Give me the option to chose a color. Give me the option to have tiles or buttons. Yes, buttons. If they want to disrupt, give me that choice.

Feature pack this OS. Don't keep telling me about Black, Cyan, or whatever buzzword and make us wait for carriers to make the call. GIVE IT over the air. This was promised back with Windows phone 7. That lie from a speech from Belforie is what got me here. Not to mention the phone reading airline tickets and checking traffic and let me know if I'll make my flight. Another Belforie lie.

Quit lying to me. Deliver what you promise. Clock is ticking.

 

[mj0]

While what has been said here is true from a tech-savvy point of view but I'd like to raise a few more issues from two very different perspectives: average John & Jane Doe not arguing the pros and cons of a specific mobile platform with complete strangers on the internet on one hand, and the enterprise on the other.

Let's start with John & Jane Doe.

First of all it's marketing or rather the noticeable lack thereof. And that's not US exclusive it's true in all markets worldwide. A marketing campaign always needs to address two things: first of all raise awareness of ones existence and second create an image of your brand/product. Don't provide too much information, that's too confusing for most people. Be vague, creative and try to lure people into your realm of reality distortion. Apple has perfected this to the point where they don't really need to advertise anymore - everybody plus their grandmother know Apple is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious cool and they make the products to desire. Android on the other hand is carried by mouth to ear propaganda - if 90% of your friends use Android phones chances are you'll get sucked into it. Not sure about the US (haven't been there in a while) but Samsung does run massive marketing campaigns in Europe trying to create an image as 'the other Apple', like Apple's younger brother that is way cooler. They're not as effective as Apple by any means but it does work. Sony, LG, etc. do the bare minimum to advertise their phones but they are barely visible. Nokia I have yet to notice, they're practically invisible.

Second, not only do I think that the app gap doesn't matter but I am convinced that while it most certainly exists it's a non-issue to most people. In my circle of friends apps are not what matters, it's what people can or want to afford (see marketing) as long as it runs Facebook, Whatsapp, and maybe a game or two. Most people I know have less than 20 third party apps installed on their devices and use less than 10 on a regular basis simply because they don't care. Even Twitter, Instagram or Snapchat is something most people don't use - it's the tech savvy people that live and breath on the internet that do but that's a minority still. Most people are neither tech savvy nor do they work anywhere near the technology field. The problem with the internet is that only people who are on the internet can participate in discussions and quite frankly, 99% of all users out there don't give a **** about news regarding Windows Phone, Android, iOS, Blackberry OS, etc. Much like I don't really care about the latest inventions in hammers, lawn mowers, or floor tiling. I'm sure there are huge differences between the different brands and products but if I need a lawn mower I'll just purchase one that is availble at the store, period. Forums such as these are heavily tilted towards heavy users for whom the smartphone is an extension of the personal self but let's be honest: that's not how most people use their devices. I have a prime specimen at home - my wife. When the iPhone 5 was first introduced she decided she MUST have one, after having previously used an older 3GS that I had lying around at work and didn't need anymore. We spent 700? on it hoping that she might start using it (at least it would've been money well spent) but did that happen? No. Does she need a smartphone? Not really. Not once in her life has she installed an app herself, every third party app on that phone was recommended and installed by me. She doesn't even know how to do that, she has no idea what an AppleID Is and what an AppStore is. Does she use these third party apps at all? Not really, she simply doesn't see the point. Even the ones that I personally think are worth using, such as news readers. I'd say roughly 70% of her smartphone use is browsing the web reading gossip stories about celebreties and their ill-bred misbehaving offspring, 20% is texting, and 10% is Facebook. Occasionally she uses Google Maps to find out how to get from A to B and once every couple of weeks does she launch our local public transport provider's app to check the train/bus schedule to get home late at night.

Now for the enterprise perspective. As we all know enterprise doesn't care for coolness, Facebook/Twitter/Snapchat app availability or initial purchase price. It's the total cost of ownership (TCO) that drives decisions and as the head of IT operations for a large multinational corporation with more than 3,000 employees and one of three people calling shots in terms of mobile devices I consider myself apt to speak for corporations big and small. We went with Apple many years ago because back then it was the only device to offer full support for Microsoft's ActiveSync Exchange protocol and this hasn't changed to this very day. Google has ditched support for ActiveSync Exchange completely in favor of IMAP/CardDAV/CalDAV which, quite frankly, wasn't a huge loss because their implementation at one point even managed to crash our Exchange server. Blackberry went a different route and requires a Blackberry Enterprise Server and while Windows Phone does have ActiveSync Exchange support built-in it's incomplete and lacks certain critical features, such as support for public contacts. Another issue is device management and quite frankly once again there are only two competitors in this field: Blackberry and Apple. Managing hundreds or thousands of Android or Windows Phone devices is a major PITA because there is no management software available for central management. I am currently using a Windows Phone device to see if at some point in the near future we might switch from iOS to Windows Phone but quite frankly I don't see this happening yet. Microsoft has become a major player in business mostly due to their ActiveDirectory capabilities - I'm talking centralized software deployment and management, centralized update distribution, OS lockdown, etc. None of this is available on Windows Phone. Zero. Nada. A third issue is OS uniformity - only with Apple can you make sure all your devices are running the exact same operating system, even down to the minor version. Google's Nexus would be a competitor here as well but have already fallen back due to lack of ActiveSync Exchange support. Apple has one mobile operating system available for all their devices. I've lost cound how many different implementations of Android Samsung is sporting right now, and even Nokia doesn't run the same version of Windows Phone on their current lineup, it's a mess really.

There's a reason why most large companies use Apple devices and the reason is not because they're cool, super awesome and have the best selfie camera or narcissism enhancement app available. It's because while initial pricing may be higher than average TCO is much lower due to enterprise manageability. Imagine installing an app, modifying a policy or installing an update on 1,000 devices spread all over Europe running a plethora of different operating systems without a way of doing this remotely over-the-air through some sort of management service.

In short, this is also why Macs are practically non-existent in enterprise environments besides a few exceptions here and there, mostly for CEOs or upper management. It's all about manageability.

 

[LumiaIcon]

Carrier exclusives, slow to update handsets and only a few choices against a sea of competition. It is nothing short of unacceptable to have the 1020 on display against the iPhone 6, Galaxy S5, MotoX etc. That was crap last year and a joke now. The one trick pony of the camera only gets you so far. That is their problem. If you walk into a store, the WP are either outdated or look like something for the "go phone" plan. Fix that... And WP will prosper. It is by far the best platform.

 

[Pierre Blackwell]

Very well said mj0. With MSFT gradually transitioning to their unified Windows concept, a lot of what you spoke of is being addressed. Active Sync exchange is something MSFT has been working on and with the latest update has made drastic improvements. The problem was WP was never designed for heavy enterprise interaction in its embryonic stages of development. That has since changed with MSFTs mobile first initiative. MSFT has all the keys in this department. How they choose to use them will be the real determining factor. Like you said, money still makes the world go round, so if execs see themselves saving hundreds of thousands by switching if they can get the same functionality from Apple, they will.

 

[angel831]

Not only that, AT&T's representation of it - just based on local stores in my area - is poor. They don't know how to sell it at all, have very little store exposure for it, and really just don't put in any effort to offer it as an option. The majority of people here are all iphone, meh. I do have an HTC One, love it, love Android, but have to admit, I miss my 920. Camera amazing, loved live tiles, and now they have all the camera apps that I love.