Windows Phone 7 or Android for me?

[archer75]

I currently don't have a phone, have never owned a smart phone. Recently my wife got an iphone with AT&T but I have no interest in iphones. I'm looking at android and windows phone 7.
I get work discounts with AT&T, Verizon and T mobile with the largest discounts being with verizon followed closely by tmobile.

I save more by going with AT&T due to being able to get a family plan but the other carriers aren't too far off due to my discounts.

Does windows phone 7 have flash yet?
I checked the marketplace and don't see pandora on there. I was planning on using a phone with pandora to stream music in my truck and thus cancel my sirius sub. I have no interest in dropping $15/month for zune pass. I suppose I can still use pandora via the website?

I primarily listen to podcasts though. I'm pretty happy with itunes for podcast management and the WP7 software for OSX looks good. Never been a fan of the zune software. But again, i'm all about the podcasts.

I like the number of apps on android and the customization options and freedom of the platform but I really like the windows phone 7 interface and performance.

I primarily use google services, gmail, multiple google calendar, google docs, google reader and google voice. I will use my google voice number with the phone and use that for free texting. I see there is a google voice app for WP7 called govoice that looks like it will work.
I do not use outlook. My contacts are in my gmail account and those have sync'd down to my address box on my imac.

I also use dropbox and skydrive. I do have a MSN email account but don't often use it.

In my home I have two win7 HTPC's, a WHS2011 box, another win7 gaming desktop but I also have a 2011 imac which I primarily use. I have an xbox but don't use it much and won't be renewing by gold subscription.
I would like GPS, turn by turn directions and I will also use it for geocaching. A good camera and video capture are important to me as well as twitter/facebook integration.

What are some WP7 ebook readers for epub and PDF?

My biggest concern is the lack of apps for WP7. If it wasn't for that I think i'd lean more heavily towards it. What does the future look like in this regard?

 

[Yakolev]

The app future looks pretty bright, ofcourse developer attention leans far more to iOS and Android but considering the age of Windows Phone we do have a lot of apps. With Mango I think the growth of the marketplace will increase even more.]

When Nokia joins along, expect lots of Symbian App developers to join the Windows Phone ranks as well.

 

[L3vi]

First I'll just answer your questions.

1. No flash, and there probably won't be for a while
2. With Mango, you might be able to access Pandora via IE 9 browser, but an app will still be better

Now for a recommendation, it really depends on what you value the most. If it's the Google ecosystem (docs, voice, calendar, maps), customization, flash, and Pandora that matter the most to you go for an Android phone.

If performance, excellent twitter/FB integration, SkyDrive, and an awesome interface that are more important, then go for a Mango Windows Phone when they are released, or get a Focus (or another WP, that one is my personal favorite) and then update it yourself to Mango.

 

[smartpatrol]

The future is very bright for Windows Phone 7 apps. The app store reached 25,000 apps not too long ago, and they reached that milestone faster than iOS or Android did.

Unfortunately there is no Pandora app, although supposedly the HTML5 website works just fine in Mango. There's also no flash support.

 

[JAStark27]

I have heard that Pandora will be coming to Windows Phone 7. They are waiting on mango to be released for the background audio. No flash due to security reasons. Basically the break down is this:

Facebook/Twitter integration: WP7
Navigation: Android
Music: WP7
Podcast: WP7 (With mango you can download right from your phone plus subscribe)
Smoothness/No lag: WP7
Multi-tasking: Android (WP7 multi-tasking is like iPhone's in Mango)
Gaming: WP7
Customization: Android

If google voice is a must your better off with Android. But with WP7 you can have all your gmail accounts still and it will synce your contacts from there to your phone. There is google docs vs Microsoft Office. E-readers right now would be Amazon Kindle. For your question on future apps you should see a nice increase in apps once the Mango update comes. Once that update comes which should be in the next couple months or so enless you get the beta version which can be told im sure. I wouldn't worry about apps there coming. Android at this same time frame had about the same amount of apps if not less so you should see an increase. So i guess to answer your question if the only thing holding you back from WP7 is apps I wouldn't be worried. Only thing I personally miss from android is the Google navigation.

 

[selfcreation]

no flash , but we got HTML5!! witch allot of new web sites are swtiching too , even iphone was thinking of switching . flash is basicly OLD tech now and its probly going BYE BYE in a eyar or 2...

 

[1jaxstate1]

No it's not. HTML5 isn't ready to overtake flash. I don't think it'll happen within the next 5 years.

no flash , but we got HTML5!! witch allot of new web sites are swtiching too , even iphone was thinking of switching . flash is basicly OLD tech now and its probly going BYE BYE in a eyar or 2...

 

[archer75]

Thanks for the feedback guys, keep it coming!

I'm currently deciding between the Samsung Focus or Dell Venue for windows phone(maybe a HTC HD7) or Motorola Atrix or HTC Sensation 4g for Android.
I can get any one of those from free to $100 which is the most I want to spend.

Not in a huge rush but i'd like to figure it out soon. There are clearly pros and cons to the two OS's, I like where android is now but I like where I see mango going.

What are the rumors for the release of the next batch of windows phones? Any rumored model names/specs?

 

[JAStark27]

Thanks for the feedback guys, keep it coming!

I'm currently deciding between the Samsung Focus or Dell Venue for windows phone(maybe a HTC HD7) or Motorola Atrix or HTC Sensation 4g for Android.
I can get any one of those from free to $100 which is the most I want to spend.

Not in a huge rush but i'd like to figure it out soon. There are clearly pros and cons to the two OS's, I like where android is now but I like where I see mango going.

What are the rumors for the release of the next batch of windows phones? Any rumored model names/specs?

I would recommend you dont get the Atrix if you happen to choose Android. i have heard nothing but problems.

 

[augustofretes]

No it's not. HTML5 isn't ready to overtake flash. I don't think it'll happen within the next 5 years.

Flash is already irrelevant. Even Adobe is realizing this and just released tools to build (really cool) HTML5 sites. We need to give this one to Steve Jobs: Most people on iOS are merely losing ads on their browsing experience (and maybe a couple of restaurants and photographers sites).

If Flash was an important feature, iOS wouldn't be crushing every other mobile OS on the tablet market. Android is selling well on smartphones, but not because of Flash (it was selling well prior to flash), moreover, Flash is absolutely unbearable on smartphones *and* tablets *and* netbooks and from time to time on laptops.

 

[archer75]

Honestly one of the reasons i'm looking to sell my ipad is lack of flash. I run into something every single day where I need flash. Whether it's a video or a game or website. Most websites still use flash and continue to do so. HTML5 adoption has been pretty damn slow even considering apples push towards it. Apples own site was only just recently changed over to HTML5, years after they've been pushing it.
HTML5 will replace flash one day, no doubt about that. But it's going to be a long ways away.

 

[augustofretes]

Honestly one of the reasons i'm looking to sell my ipad is lack of flash. I run into something every single day where I need flash. Whether it's a video or a game or website. Most websites still use flash and continue to do so. HTML5 adoption has been pretty damn slow even considering apples push towards it. Apples own site was only just recently changed over to HTML5, years after they've been pushing it.
HTML5 will replace flash one day, no doubt about that. But it's going to be a long ways away.

I'm not doubting your usage scenario, but generally, it happens just what I described, in fact, most traffic on the internet (around 90%) belong to a few sites, most (if not all of them) use HTML5. In fact, I don't think there's *any* flash site (or flash game) which can even make it to the Top 500 (those virtually account for all internet traffic).

 

[archer75]

I'm not doubting your usage scenario, but generally, it happens just what I described, in fact, most traffic on the internet (around 90%) belong to a few sites, most (if not all of them) use HTML5. In fact, I don't think there's *any* flash site (or flash game) which can even make it to the Top 500 (those virtually account for all internet traffic).

I would be interested in seeing those top 500 sites. Any time I go to any site with video I always see "flash player required". In my experience it's pretty rare to see a video on a site actually play on my ipad.

I don't play very many browser games at all but recently got addicted to this one called kingdom rush on a flash game site. I'm also not one to play facebook games but there is one I want to play and that requires flash as well.

While the youtube browser on the ipad gives you HTML5 video if you click a link it takes me to youtubes site in a browser and not the app and I get a page telling me I need flash player installed. In fact most news sites do have an app and those videos play fine but if I go to the same site in a browser it's all flash.

Most restaurant sites use flash. The main reason I got the ipad was for when we travel so that on the road I can bring up attractions and restaurants in cities we are traveling through to see where to stop but most won't load.
I also visit many gaming news sites/blogs that use flash regularly.

So when you say top 500 sites I am rather shocked as that is no where near the experience that I am seeing. Granted, different usage scenarios. I do hear some people say they don't need flash at all and others who can't live without it.

 

[VernonEL]

Zune

I checked the marketplace and don't see pandora on there. I was planning on using a phone with pandora to stream music in my truck and thus cancel my sirius sub. I have no interest in dropping $15/month for zune pass. I suppose I can still use pandora via the website?

I primarily listen to podcasts though. I'm pretty happy with itunes for podcast management and the WP7 software for OSX looks good. Never been a fan of the zune software. But again, i'm all about the podcasts.

I'll just comment on the music:
I love the overall Zune experience on Windows Phone, and the ZunePass only adds to it. Probably the best way for MS to get my money was to give me that free trial for ZunePass. I'm not ashamed to say I'm hooked.
Even without the Pass, music is great with the interface, and even if you purchased a device that has only 8GB of storage, it's really easy to sync up a new playlist every few days. (Syncing can even be done wirelessly.)
I too am all about the podcasts. I subscribe (free) to many, and find that I would probably have a hard time going with out them now. Podcasts do not require you to have a ZunePass subscription.
Pandora. I actually have heard some non-techies saying that they feel that Pandora is on it's way out. I feel that it may be quite a while, but I get where they are going with it. Pandora was the first real free streaming service that seemed to become popular. I'm sure there were others before it, but Pandora really caught everyone's attention about two years ago I think. Since then we have seen Slacker Radio, iHeartRadio, and now even Spotify. I do not use this type of streaming audio, so I'm not one to comment on how great they are, but I know that within my circles, no one uses Pandora anymore. The reason that I don't use any of these is the simple fact that I cannot directly choose what I listen to. Of course I can get it pretty close, and I would be fine with that if I didn't have to be interrupted every five songs by the same annoying commercial.
I use Zune. I put all my music on my device, and play what I want. I can also build playlists and sync them too. Also, with ZunePass, I can stream anything I want! I can search "Lil Wayne" and besides all his albums, I can stream any number of playlists that people have compiled, such as "Featuring Lil Wayne". Invaluable. Especially how music today is.
You still reading? Sorry, I'm kinda passionate about this kind of thing.
Anyways, the music experience in Windows Phone is incredible, especially when you add the ZunePass to it.

 

[augustofretes]

I would be interested in seeing those top 500 sites. Any time I go to any site with video I always see "flash player required". In my experience it's pretty rare to see a video on a site actually play on my ipad.

Which video sites? Youtube and Vimeo are basely the only big sites for video (and porn sites! but those even support the crappiest phones in the world) Note: I'm talking about occidental video sites here. Most sites which actually embedded their own videos support HTML5 (solely because the iPad is a major device).

The data is available here: http://www.alexa.com/topsites

I don't play very many browser games at all but recently got addicted to this one called kingdom rush on a flash game site. I'm also not one to play facebook games but there is one I want to play and that requires flash as well.

This is a fair point. That said, did you look for them on the App Store? This may seem more inconvenient, but au contraire, is a much better approach (and they will run smoothly, instead of how they run on honeycomb). And usually popular games are right there (from Facebook, or anywhere).

While the youtube browser on the ipad gives you HTML5 video if you click a link it takes me to youtubes site in a browser and not the app and I get a page telling me I need flash player installed. In fact most news sites do have an app and those videos play fine but if I go to the same site in a browser it's all flash

Most restaurant sites use flash. The main reason I got the ipad was for when we travel so that on the road I can bring up attractions and restaurants in cities we are traveling through to see where to stop but most won't load.
I also visit many gaming news sites/blogs that use flash regularly..

Those are sound points, they do support either HTML5 or got an App on the Store. The usage model on the iPad is App based, so your discomfort is probably because you're not following the current iOS model, which isn't about going to the browser, search on google and find restaurants, but rather use an App, which is far more intelligent and complete. In fact, from what I've seen, WP7 Mango approach with Local Scout is delicious.

So when you say top 500 sites I am rather shocked as that is no where near the experience that I am seeing. Granted, different usage scenarios. I do hear some people say they don't need flash at all and others who can't live without it.

I agree with you, usage scenarios are different, but the vast majority of buyers don't care. The satisfaction (and low rate of product returns) of iOS devices is unmatched by any platform, so they surely got it right (I'm may being overly positive here, but I think if customers could be given an unbiased fair test (not app-centric) of side-by-side devices: With iOS, Android and WP7, most will go with either iOS and WP7, and I would be willing to bet on WP7 favor!). In fact, I don't think you would actually want to use Flash on your tablets (given the current hardware limitations and how pathetically underoptimized Flash is), it's a terrible experience.

 

[archer75]

Which video sites? Youtube and Vimeo are basely the only big sites for video (and porn sites! but those even support the crappiest phones in the world) Note: I'm talking about occidental video sites here. Most sites which actually embedded their own videos support HTML5 (solely because the iPad is a major device).

The data is available here: Alexa Top 500 Global Sites

Youtube for one. See the app works fine. But you can't always use the app. If you get a link in an email or off a page it links you to the youtube page and doesn't launch the app. You'd have to manually dig through the app to find that video which is a pain. Many sites that embed video don't work either. Whether it's youtube video or various gaming sites.

Sites 2 and 3 in the list are using flash still. I didn't go beyond the first page.

This is a fair point. That said, did you look for them on the App Store? This may seem more inconvenient, but au contraire, is a much better approach (and they will run smoothly, instead of how they run on honeycomb). And usually popular games are right there (from Facebook, or anywhere).

Those are sound points, they do support either HTML5 or got an App on the Store. The usage model on the iPad is App based, so your discomfort is probably because you're not following the current iOS model, which isn't about going to the browser, search on google and find restaurants, but rather use an App, which is far more intelligent and complete. In fact, from what I've seen, WP7 Mango approach with Local Scout is delicious.

I always use apps whenever possible. So the cases I outlined there are no apps. Those games I play, no apps. First thing I checked too. I really wish there were apps of those available.

The vast majority of websites I visit don't have apps. Most restaurants don't. You can sometimes get some info from 3rd party apps but it is often lacking and I want to look at a full menu. I don't know why they insist that online menus must be in flash. The more popular restaurants are better represented by these 3rd party apps. But there are just so many not listed. Or with not enough details.

And sometimes even when there are apps, I like cross referencing the same restaurant or hotel for reviews and such and it's just easier and much faster for me to do it in a tabbed browser where I can easily move back and forth than using apps.

This isn't my first rodeo. I was a very early adopter of the ipad, almost right when it came out. I'm always testing out new apps. I even have apps that help me find apps and I listen to app podcasts to discover more. So I try to stay on top of things. Right now the ipad is something that I use to read in bed or comes with me to the toilet or I use on breaks at work.

 

[archer75]

I'll just comment on the music:
I love the overall Zune experience on Windows Phone, and the ZunePass only adds to it. Probably the best way for MS to get my money was to give me that free trial for ZunePass. I'm not ashamed to say I'm hooked.
Even without the Pass, music is great with the interface, and even if you purchased a device that has only 8GB of storage, it's really easy to sync up a new playlist every few days. (Syncing can even be done wirelessly.)
I too am all about the podcasts. I subscribe (free) to many, and find that I would probably have a hard time going with out them now. Podcasts do not require you to have a ZunePass subscription.
Pandora. I actually have heard some non-techies saying that they feel that Pandora is on it's way out. I feel that it may be quite a while, but I get where they are going with it. Pandora was the first real free streaming service that seemed to become popular. I'm sure there were others before it, but Pandora really caught everyone's attention about two years ago I think. Since then we have seen Slacker Radio, iHeartRadio, and now even Spotify. I do not use this type of streaming audio, so I'm not one to comment on how great they are, but I know that within my circles, no one uses Pandora anymore. The reason that I don't use any of these is the simple fact that I cannot directly choose what I listen to. Of course I can get it pretty close, and I would be fine with that if I didn't have to be interrupted every five songs by the same annoying commercial.
I use Zune. I put all my music on my device, and play what I want. I can also build playlists and sync them too. Also, with ZunePass, I can stream anything I want! I can search "Lil Wayne" and besides all his albums, I can stream any number of playlists that people have compiled, such as "Featuring Lil Wayne". Invaluable. Especially how music today is.
You still reading? Sorry, I'm kinda passionate about this kind of thing.
Anyways, the music experience in Windows Phone is incredible, especially when you add the ZunePass to it.

Not really wanting to pay for a zune pass. Honestly i'm not really about my own music and playlists. I have an ipod dock for my car stereo and never use it. I do however pay for a sirius subscription. I like random music, discovering new music and listening to things I wouldn't normally think of putting in a playlist. So i'm looking to cancel sirius to save some money and pandora works great for my needs. I love the variety.
I do have a free spotify account but honestly i'm not a fan. I do also use iheartradio for one thing(in the house) but that's available just over the local airways anyways.

If I was more into my own music then I would certainly do a zunepass. It's a pretty nice setup.

 

[augustofretes]

Youtube for one. See the app works fine. But you can't always use the app. If you get a link in an email or off a page it links you to the youtube page and doesn't launch the app. You'd have to manually dig through the app to find that video which is a pain. Many sites that embed video don't work either. Whether it's youtube video or various gaming sites.

I'm really confused, why is this happening to you? Why you don't merely enable Youtube HTML5 mode? Which gaming site doesn't offer an App? Kotaku? Joystiq? IGN? Gamespot? Every single one I can think off has one.

Sites 2 and 3 in the list are using flash still. I didn't go beyond the first page.

Facebook isn't a flash site, and youtube is available using HTML5.

I always use apps whenever possible. So the cases I outlined there are no apps. Those games I play, no apps.

Fair enough, still a very particular scenario.

The vast majority of websites I visit don't have apps.

Is the vast majority flash-based? or flash-centric? Because otherwise the problem is moot, since you effectively browse them with no trouble.

Most restaurants don't. You can sometimes get some info from 3rd party apps but it is often lacking and I want to look at a full menu. I don't know why they insist that online menus must be in flash.

I gotta admit I'm always satisfied with the data available on 3rd party apps (I was referring precisely to those, which got things like reviews, etc). But I can feel your concern. As for the latter point, the reason is simple: (Most) Web Developers aren't actually developers, nor designers, so (most) tend to take the simplest (but less effective) path to create a "modern" site.

 

[archer75]

I'm really confused, why is this happening to you? Why you don't merely enable Youtube HTML5 mode?

Have never gotten youtube to show me video in HTML5 via the website on the ipad. Just haven't been successful. I can make it work on my desktop with no problem.

Facebook isn't a flash site, and youtube is available using HTML5.

Facebook games require flash. That is my particular issue with that site. The game I want to play is flash based and there is no app for it. I have a facebook app but it's no-go for facebook games.
I don't play many games on the ipad, I have several on there but most for my kids. Not much that interests me. I try a lot but most just don't grab my attention for long.
It's just odd that most of the games I find are on flash based sites with no ios app equivalent. Not that I play a lot of them. Right now i'd be happy with just 2.

Is the vast majority flash-based? or flash-centric? Because otherwise the problem is moot, since you effectively browse them with no trouble.

The majority of restaurant sites I visit use flash, either for navigation or the menu or both. Most of which I have not been happy with what is available in apps. Some are ok. But most restaurants aren't listed in an app.

Many gaming sites can be covered by an app, sure, but when i'm accessing them it's often times via links from an RSS reader where I access my google reader account. Those links launch either the browser built into the RSS app or safari. It's a huge pain to find an article in my RSS app and then not be able to use the link and then have to manually launch the app(if there is one) and then dig my way through it to find the article I was just reading about in the other app so that I can watch the video. I can do it, yes, but it's no where near as efficient.

If clicking this link or that link in a news feed or article would launch the corresponding app then it would be a non issue(when apps exist). But they launch browsers which are incapable of displaying certain content on a page. I think that's really almost the entire issue.

 

[DontHate707]

Adobes even killing flash ever heard or Edge?!