Windows Phone - "The old grey mare, ... she ain't what she used to be."

[Nickerz]

Please don’t take this post the wrong way. I am not trying to bash on WP but I’m discussing honest concerns and asking honest questions about the future of Windows Phone in general because I care. I want them to be extremely competitive again. I want my WP to work exactly like my notebook and do a lot of other stuff…someday – why not now in 2011!!!???. I use MS Office and Outlook all day long and mobile productivity is very important to me but I want it to be in the size of all mobile devices – not some iPad size. So here it goes…

According to today’s article, "Mango is more of a total revamp, adding some 500 new elements to Microsoft’s Windows Phone platform." – I know this sounds strange but this concerns me a little. I’m not concerned about WP trying to improve their overall product. Rather I feel it's a little troubling that WP didn’t discern from the get-go that WP was NOT competitive. Again, I’m not saying this to upset WP users but I’m stating the facts according to an article I recently read on WSJ.com – and the numbers are very troubling but speak for themselves, right? I mean, Android sells as many phones in 4 days as it takes WP to sell in an ENTIRE QUARTER!!!???

So yes, I’m concerned that the same group of people who are trying to “patch” this OS up by adding features and benefits that it should have had from the beginning and who may not be able to discern other “great” breakthroughs that could be coming down the road. As everyone knows, technology is outdated when it hits the shelves and companies need to be evolving at a RAPID pace! So I’m very concerned if WP can do this successfully. If they continue to have lack-luster sales as the WSJ article shows, then they will be sharing a grave with every other company that couldn’t figure out how remain competitive. Gone! Lehman Brothers proved not even 150 years can keep you in business in today’s competitive world. Companies could hang their hat on sheer experience alone, apparently not anymore.

I really hope WP is on the right path. I think when they launched WP (after their hiatus from the smartphone battle) and I heard what it DIDN’T have and I’m talking some basic stuff, I was confused, frustrated and more confused.

To illustrate, let’s say your girlfriend tells you she needs a break. You’re completely caught off guard because you thought everything was going fine (i.e., WM 6.5). You agree because you really have no choice but you convince yourself that it will do the both of you good. Some time passes and you’ve moved on. You have a new girlfriend now! (i.e., Android, iPhone or BlackBerry – or for some of you ALL 3 ;-). One day your OLD girlfriend says she wants you back. She claims she has “matured” and has a “new” outlook on life. So you think to yourself… “I like my new phone (I mean girlfriend) I have now. She has everything I want but I really did love my high school sweet heart, so I’ll see what she has to say!” So you both agree to meet up again and this is what you see from your so-called “new and improved” ex-girlfriend…

***She’s put on some added weight (i.e., BING, Apps that aren’t truly great compared to the other app markets available)

***She lost some basic features like a few teeth (i.e., copy & paste and this list could go on!)

***She has a kid now (i.e., Xbox live – which can be cool for some I guess?)

***You notice she has a new addiction – She's a chain smoker or most likely meth since she’s missing teeth, lol! (i.e., this could be touch-screens, which I prefer the QWERTY keyboard of course!)

***And the other horrible baggage one can think of that would make your “ex-girlfriend” unappealing and KILL any chance of taking her back!

So who would take that back? I know, there are some out there that would and have – but let’s be honest, they are the minority. The majority, like you and I would move on…AND ALREADY DID!

I know this illustration can be spun a million different ways (I may even hop over to the BlackBerry forums – yes I have a BB and insert them everywhere I used Windows Phone btw because I feel they could be headed down the same lack-luster path) but for me, in the end, it comes down to...

"The old grey mare, ... she ain't what she used to be.” Yep, Windows Phone…”she ain’t what she used to be!”

***Edit***
P.S. I simply couldn't pass on adding the link to youtube of some old dude singing the song - lol!

 

[Luisraul924]

Please don?t take this post the wrong way. I am not trying to bash on WP but I?m discussing honest concerns and asking honest questions about the future of Windows Phone in general because I care. I want them to be extremely competitive again. I want my WP to work exactly like my notebook and do a lot of other stuff?someday ? why not now in 2011!!!???. I use MS Office and Outlook all day long and mobile productivity is very important to me but I want it to be in the size of all mobile devices ? not some iPad size. So here it goes?

According to today?s article, "Mango is more of a total revamp, adding some 500 new elements to Microsoft?s Windows Phone platform." ? I know this sounds strange but this concerns me a little. I?m not concerned about WP trying to improve their overall product. Rather I feel it's a little troubling that WP didn?t discern from the get-go that WP was NOT competitive. Again, I?m not saying this to upset WP users but I?m stating the facts according to an article I recently read on WSJ.com ? and the numbers are very troubling but speak for themselves, right? I mean, Android sells as many phones in 4 days as it takes WP to sell in an ENTIRE QUARTER!!!???

So yes, I?m concerned that the same group of people who are trying to ?patch? this OS up by adding features and benefits that it should have had from the beginning and who may not be able to discern other ?great? breakthroughs that could be coming down the road. As everyone knows, technology is outdated when it hits the shelves and companies need to be evolving at a RAPID pace! So I?m very concerned if WP can do this successfully. If they continue to have lack-luster sales as the WSJ article shows, then they will be sharing a grave with every other company that couldn?t figure out how remain competitive. Gone! Lehman Brothers proved not even 150 years can keep you in business in today?s competitive world. Companies could hang their hat on sheer experience alone, apparently not anymore.

I really hope WP is on the right path. I think when they launched WP (after their hiatus from the smartphone battle) and I heard what it DIDN?T have and I?m talking some basic stuff, I was confused, frustrated and more confused.

To illustrate, let?s say your girlfriend tells you she needs a break. You?re completely caught off guard because you thought everything was going fine (i.e., WM 6.5). You agree because you really have no choice but you convince yourself that it will do the both of you good. Some time passes and you?ve moved on. You have a new girlfriend now! (i.e., Android, iPhone or BlackBerry ? or for some of you ALL 3 ;-). One day your OLD girlfriend says she wants you back. She claims she has ?matured? and has a ?new? outlook on life. So you think to yourself? ?I like my new phone (I mean girlfriend) I have now. She has everything I want but I really did love my high school sweet heart, so I?ll see what she has to say!? So you both agree to meet up again and this is what you see from your so-called ?new and improved? ex-girlfriend?

***She?s put on some added weight (i.e., BING, Apps that aren?t truly great compared to the other app markets available)

***She lost some basic features like a few teeth (i.e., copy & paste and this list could go on!)

***She has a kid now (i.e., Xbox live ? which can be cool for some I guess?)

***You notice she has a new addiction ? She's a chain smoker or most likely meth since she?s missing teeth, lol! (i.e., this could be touch-screens, which I prefer the QWERTY keyboard of course!)

***And the other horrible baggage one can think of that would make your ?ex-girlfriend? unappealing and KILL any chance of taking her back!

So who would take that back? I know, there are some out there that would and have ? but let?s be honest, they are the minority. The majority, like you and I would move on?AND ALREADY DID!

I know this illustration can be spun a million different ways (I may even hop over to the BlackBerry forums ? yes I have a BB and insert them everywhere I used Windows Phone btw because I feel they could be headed down the same lack-luster path) but for me, in the end, it comes down to...

"The old grey mare, ... she ain't what she used to be.? Yep, Windows Phone??she ain?t what she used to be!?

***Edit***
P.S. I simply couldn't pass on adding the link to youtube of some old dude singing the song - lol!

I see where you're coming from, and its an interesting perspective, but your analogy was pretty ****ty. What I mean by ****ty is that it would really only apply to people that are either tech geeks or heavy business people (in which devices are more than likely company issued anyways). The remaining 95% of the world are heavily influenced by the misinformation and biased guidance given to them by sales reps. I honestly believe Microsoft knows this very well and is going to play their cards till they can get a hit. Oh and, what's wrong with Bing? It works far better than Google does for me and many other people I know.

 

[Baka]

So basically you don't like that WP7 was lacking a bunch of features and you're worried that they are adding a bunch of features.

Android has been out for over 2 years, WP7 for 7 months - you expect device sales to be equal?

Complaining for the sake of complaining just makes you a...complainer. Bother to do some research first: the app development schedule of WP7 is outpacing Android at the same point in the development cycle. The Mango update is adding in a feature set it took iOs 4 iterations to incorporate, and Android 5+ (with not all devices getting all updates).

If WP7 isn't your cup of tea, so be it, go find a an OS that delivers what you want. But bashing it for a bunch of half-baked reasons only reflects poorly on your complaints, not on the OS.

 

[jimski]

Windows Phone will never be everything for everyone, but as long as it fits the need for a few hundred million users in another year or two, I think Microsoft will be pleased, as will their stockholders. Good luck in your search for the perfect, from your perspective, mobile platform. I already found mine.

Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

 

[gyrferret]

Because the target audience doesn't need all the teeth and likes a little cushion for the pushin.

Microsoft realized this and reacted accordingly.

 

[dtboos]

Android sold pretty poorly until the OG Droid was marketed like a madman from Verizon btw. And it grew quickly after that because it was offered for free, and used as a hardware testbed from every OEM on the planet. Its how it works.

Two platforms dominate the market, and Microsoft already has some [deserved (win mobile) and undeserved] stigma associated with them. It is an uphill battle, but they do offer superior UI and interaction between device & user as well as integrated services.

It will take off after Mango is released, and will take a couple years to really grab a large portion of the market. wp7 was a brand new OS, and if you remember when the iPhone was released it had literally nothing. Even the phone part sucked (still does). Android had a horrible interface, no apps, and no users for the first year. When they completely overhaul their phone design like that it wont have all the features right away, but they are going to be extremely competitive within the first year. Thats pretty huge if you ask me. None of the other platforms did that much so fast.

If you expected them to grab the iOS & Android market within the first 6 months I'm not sure what to tell ya.

 

[Nickerz]

So basically you don't like that WP7 was lacking a bunch of features and you're worried that they are adding a bunch of features.

Not exactly. Again, my concern is why does WP have to "revamp" their current OS? I understand improving a few items here and there but "adding some 500 new elements" means they apparently have a difficult time discerning what their customers want and this is proven in the 1st quarter sales results. So yes, this MANGO thing could be a really good improvement and could get people like me who are still sitting on the sidelines, to buy a WP device eventually. But right now, I don't TRUST WP yet because of the decisions they've been making.

Android has been out for over 2 years, WP7 for 7 months - you expect device sales to be equal?

So your argument is comparing the time Android has had over WP? By the way the time is negligible because it’s still very close and yet the sales numbers are NOT! It seems even then, the sales numbers shouldn’t reflect polar opposites. When Android started, it hit the ground running because they just get it! Android is banging down the door to Apple’s iPhone for goodness sake (or even surpassed it), so what is the time difference there? Again, I feel this shows what happens when a company offers what their customers want. Let’s also not forget the additional time Microsoft has had in the smartphone market with WindowsMobile (which WindowsPhone should have improved on – right?) and compare that with Google just starting off, as you say over 2 years ago. To me this is obviously an advantage of Microsoft and NOT Google.

Again, I want to love Windows Phone. Unfortunately at this point, I don’t and I’m waiting and hoping that this Mango thing addresses most (I don’t even need ALL at this point although I would like it) but most of what I’m looking to do with my smartphone. I used to be a WindowsMobile guy and I loved my Palm Treo 750! Times have changed and I just hope that WP can continually change with the times. That’s it. I’m not trying to bash but bring up legitimate issues with WP and by the way…if more of us did this, then they (all companies out there) will start listening and improving their products/services – right? If we just roll over and take it then we get stuff that doesn’t measure up to the competition. What if the reason why Mango came about is to address posts like mine? I feel WP is attempting to improve their OS b/c there isn’t enough people who like it and there are more people like me who are at least willing to be honest and complain about it! Apparently I’m not the only one but I would rather be one of you…using a smartphone put out by Microsoft again!.

PS I feel this pretty much sums it up for all smartphone companies and this should be BIG memo!
"Every time a user downloads a native app to their smartphone or puts their data into a platform’s cloud service, they are committing to a particular ecosystem and reducing the chances of switching to a new platform." - Again, there are customers being lost that these companies may NEVER get back.

 

[foosball]

This is version 1.0 and less than a year into a multi-year, brand new mobile platform reset. There will come a time to evaluate the progress of Windows Phone but that time ain't even close yet.

Regardless, this is the best mobile experience available imo and Mango will only cement that.

 

[starblade876]

Blah, blah. Same ol' FUD. Blah.

Since you want to talk about honesty, honestly, your post is full of ignorance. WP7 isn't the new UI built over WM6. It's not the "old grey mare" because it's the "new [whatever color is good for you since I'm not prejudiced against horse color] mare". She's not your "ex-girlfriend" because she's your ex-girlfriend's hotter sister or cousin who's maturing much better.

Additionally, criticizing the OS without having legitimately tried it doesn't give much weight at all to your critiques. It's more like trash talking. MS isn't improving WP based on trash talking trolls. MS has in fact shown that they have been listening to their customers numerous times (e.g., response letters, reacting to homebrew stuff, working with app developers, etc.) and even improving beyond what many people desire (e.g., cross app linking). You would know these things if you were indeed a "fan" as you claimed and followed news.

Your analogies are off, too.

• Weight/Apps - Do you really think apps will remain the way they are? It will only get better with time. Many developers have already stated that they've found the development environment for WP7 better than both iOS and Android. I can name at least one app that I've tried on 3 platforms and enjoyed leagues better on WP7; the Bank of America app (i.e., a useful app for a normal person's everyday life). Additionally, I've been using Bing as my main search engine now and I have no desire to go back to Google. In fact, I was using Yahoo before that, so I'd sooner go back to Yahoo than use Google, too.
• Teeth/Features - Adults usually don't grow teeth... Regardless, since you mention C&P, both iOS and Android have needed work on that same tooth, so I don't get your point. In fact, the same can probably be said with all the other teeth. Though seriously, you must have some fetish with teeth because all 3 OSes will get more eventually.
• Child/XBL - How is XBL even remotely close to a child? You can ignore XBL completely and everything will be fine. Unless you have some idiotic parenting ideas, I don't get it. Also, I'm pretty sure iPhone has one, too, now (Game Center) and I assume the Xperia Play will get its games from somewhere, as well. So...???
• Addiction/Keyboard - 3 out of the 7 or 8 WP devices in the US have physical keyboards, so I'm not sure what you're talking about with this, especially compared to the 0 out of 4 iPhone iterations and xx out of nn throw-away Android devices (whatever the silly number is, I'm sure the ratio isn't any better).

 

[jimski]

Not exactly. Again, my concern is why does WP have to "revamp" their current OS? I understand improving a few items here and there but "adding some 500 new elements" means they apparently have a difficult time discerning what their customers want and this is proven in the 1st quarter sales results. So yes, this MANGO thing could be a really good improvement and could get people like me who are still sitting on the sidelines, to buy a WP device eventually. But right now, I don't TRUST WP yet because of the decisions they've been making.

I believe Microsoft knows exactly what their customers want. Further, I believe current WP sales numbers are within 10-20% of their long term forecast. Last October/November was a soft launch in order for. Windows device to stay relevant. WinMobile 6.99 would not have cut it. A whole new platform needed a buy in from OEMs and Carriers, and that's what you saw last Fall. This Fall, with Mango and new devices from at least seven different OEMs, and no anti-trust crap to crimp their style, you will see the teuce force of the 800lb Gorilla.

WP OS 7.0 was released lacking some basic features that either were not ready or not highly requested, but it was released buttery smooth, fast and very efficiently implemented. They could have overloaded the OS with non-requested, half completed features (ala WinMo) but instead chose the minimalist approach. Customer feedback and common sense had brought about the 500 new features. Micrososft really thinking this through, coming up with "whatif" kinds of solutions that will keep the OS tuning smooth without the need for battery draianing processors. This is a long term project that will take several years to fully develop. You have no odea what you are missing.

Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

 

[jdunn]

Getting tired of saying the same thing to people

So your argument is comparing the time Android has had over WP? By the way the time is negligible because it?s still very close and yet the sales numbers are NOT! It seems even then, the sales numbers shouldn?t reflect polar opposites. When Android started, it hit the ground running because they just get it! Android is banging down the door to Apple?s iPhone for goodness sake (or even surpassed it), so what is the time difference there? Again, I feel this shows what happens when a company offers what their customers want. Let?s also not forget the additional time Microsoft has had in the smartphone market with WindowsMobile (which WindowsPhone should have improved on ? right?) and compare that with Google just starting off, as you say over 2 years ago. To me this is obviously an advantage of Microsoft and NOT Google.

In a world where something is considered obsolete after only a year, if not 6 months, on the market haveing only a year head start is a huge advantage. We are talking about many years though.

iPhone - launched on June 29, 2007.

Android - Has a history beginning in 2003 with the first device running it launched in late 2008.(definitely didn't hit the ground running either. Android didn't really catch on until Motorola launched the Droid on Verizon)

WP7 - Launched in November, 2010. (previous windows mobile OS don't count as WP7 isn't and update, it is an entirely new software)

So both iOS and Android have had 2.5-3 years on the market before WP7 showed up. Give Windows Phone 3 years and everything will look completely different than it does now.

On another note, the 500+ features/changes that Microsoft is talking about includes API's and behind the scenes code changes.

 

[Luisraul924]

Lmao @JeffDunn2010 I completely agree with you on having to tell people the same **** over and over when they come up with something like this or question WP7 they are either not doing enough research or, they do see things like this but refuse to acknowledge that its the truth, or something but I know I've repeated this over and over again.

 

[kenji117]

iPhone's follow the same principal as all Apple products which is roughly something like "Hey, lets add a couple features and call it something new and charge another $300 for it and I'm too lazy to make any changes to the actual phone so lets just leave that." Rounding edges and making the back flat isnt much of a change to the phone's design.

Android is slightly better. They have a larger variety of cell phones to choose from but the hardware seems to vary too much and their OS seems very similar to iOS, at least it does to me. Somehow Android didn't really ever attract me. It seemed like just another iPhone replica that had a few twists and changes of its own but the interface was roughly the same.

Windows Phone 7 is completely different from other phones. That is one of its biggest selling points and the biggest attraction for most. It much more organized and has less of the clutter that iPhones and Androids seem to have every time I see them. Microsoft is known for software. While Apple is known for hardware. See that difference there? That whole HW vs SW difference is pretty big. Microsoft makes the software while getting other companies to make the devices creating a nice variety of phones for people with the great OS we expect from a company like Microsoft.

According to Gartner iOS will lose out to WP7 by 2015 and Android will own 50% of the market. However, these predictions were made prior to the Nokia deal.

I wont hide the fact that I hate Apple and Steve Jobs so, I am pretty happy with Gartner's predictions.

Microsoft has some pretty big plans and they are playing their cards extremely well. They make $5 per HTC Android phone sold. (Just saw that article a little while ago) They are still going after additional companies which produce Android phones. That will create quite a bit of revenue to use towards more R&D or w/e they decide to spend it on. Also should Gartner's predictions prove to be true then Microsoft will be making money off of Android phones sold to 50% of the cellphone market which I'm sure will be a pretty hefty amount of cash that Microsoft could use to further marketing and improving the Windows Phone 7

All in all regardless of your opinion it looks like Microsoft is playing all the right cards right now. (Maybe with the exception of Dell)

I give you a 4/10 since you are persistent but cmon bro troll harder!

 

[HeyCori]

I agree with starblade876, this thread is full of paranoia and FUD.

Sorry OP but you're criticisms aren't new or unexpected. Yes, we're all aware that WP7 is a few features behind iOS/Android and it will take a while for MS (or anyone) to catch up to them. However, MS has shown a strong commitment to the platform much like they did for the original Xbox so don't expect MS to just "drop" WP7. Furthermore sluggish sales has not kept developers from being attracted to the platform. 20k apps in less than a year proves that. And most importantly WP7 can do some amazing things now and it's only going to get better with Mango, not worse.

If you want to love WP7 like you claim then buy one and judge it after actually using it for a significant amount of time.

 

[atitdd]

First time poster =)

Good article but you're comparing a girlfriend to a piece of technology. The former I can understand the attachment too, the latter's affection is purely based on how it can benefit you in the present, let me elaborate.

If i was walking down the street with my girlfriend, and i see another hot piece of @$$....i don't automatically leave my current gf for her....

now if i have an iphone and/or android device and I see a windows phone that better fits my needs i can easily "upgrade" without consequences.

btw when i buy a phone, I dont look at trends and or public opinion, It is purley based on the product and services and the longevity of the platform. I think WP7 is a great phone now which will become even better after mango.

Before you decide to bash me, Im currently on an iphone and had a palm pre before that. The pre was an amazing phone and webos is my fav OS, but the longevity of that platform seems in jeopardy. Im soo frustrated with my iphone. My biggest gripe is everything is based on apps, I hate having to open an app for everything. Some thing as simple as checking the weather requires more effort than necessary. I love WP7 because everything is baked into the OS which is a huge plus that people dont seem to realize. The OS is going to be stacked with features and all the apps just provide icing on the cake. I love how app connect has blended the apps into the OS, it just makes using the phone a breeze.

and it honestly baffles me when people complain about metro.....it is absolutely gorgeous and easy on the eyes....a true work of art. iphone users who complain about the WP7 UI are nuts, a wall of icons, really?!

enough of my rambling =)
p.s. good to be here

 

[dtboos]

Welcome to the forums Atitdd. And most people, even if they don't like windows phone, tend to at least be able to admit that the Metro UI is a think of beauty. It really is striking.

Use what you like, but on an initial release for a brand new OS, you have to be able to look a little bit down the road to see where its going. Early adopters get the fun of missing features in the beginning, same as the other platforms.

 

[wolfman-fu]

Well anyone else notice that the OP's goes by the name "Nickers"? Seems that the OP should have done some research before they got them in a bunch.

 

[WayCool]

This whole thread .. is pretty funny...

Really the complaint is about how WP7 isn't popular enough ?

I mean.. I dont buy things cause "EVERYONE" is getting one.. or its "TRENDING" .. or even set some artificial goal to only buy a product once it sells X number units.

If the OS works for you.. great.. if not.. theres options.. Good luck with it.

 

[aapold]

I don't know if its just me, but the lack of mass-appeal was one of the drawing points of WP7. I don't want to be in the same boat with everyone else. **** I liked android better when it was a new kid upstart than I do now.

 

[atitdd]

I don't know if its just me, but the lack of mass-appeal was one of the drawing points of WP7. I don't want to be in the same boat with everyone else. **** I liked android better when it was a new kid upstart than I do now.

Its kindda weird, but i like to do the same thing.....I like being the new kid on the block (no i dont like their music).....I still havent met anyone with a WP7 device (sad but true) so i hope to be the trend-setter in my area....

My friends are currently blinded by the ipod fanboyism right now.....i shall set them free of the wall-o-apps!