Would Microsoft build Surface Phone using Android?

[Jazmac]

Adrian Kingley-Hughes of ZDNet, not necessarily a big fan of the platform thinks that Microsoft should move to Android. He points to the wave of Microsoft apps on Android


already with more soon to be coming. He talks about Microsoft's 'investment' in Cyanogenmod and also stitches reference to Microsoft's purchase of Xamarin which is key to it building IOS and Android apps.

Considering Amazon forked android for its Kindle Fire tablets so what if the plan is that Microsoft uses these same tools to do that same? Create some really smooth looking touchwiz type UI, something that really says "Microsoft". Would they do it and build some Microsoft\Cyanogenmod hybrid for at least ONE model of the 2017 Surface Phone. Would you embrace it? Now, I am not a fan of Adrian Hughes-Kingley but I can't build a good argument against his April 12th blog.

Not a post to cheese you off but contemplate for a few minutes if this idea to possibly challenge Samsung's supremacy in the arena of smart phones. What say you?

 

[Pete]

I don't think so. The press have already declared that Windows Phone is dead, so any move towards creating an Android based phone would only create a wave of "Microsoft is finally killing Windows Phone" and trash the "One Windows" vision.

I don't see it myself.

 

[Spectrum90]

I don't see any value in a Microsoft Android phone for the consumer market. Maybe a hardened Android phone for the enterprise market could make sense, though.

 

[libra89]

If they decided to do that, I would like to try one. iOS works nicely with Microsoft apps, but Cortana is fairly limited and I miss her integration. Not enough to switch back but still.

 

[tgp]

My opinion is that the main (only?) reason for a Windows phone is to have a device which puts Microsoft's services as default. If Microsoft could somehow make their services default on iOS and Android, that would be ideal. Were it possible, I think they would drop WP like a hot potato.

Making their own forked version of Android would essentially accomplish this. The caveat is that it would also need access to Google's Play Store to take advantage of Android's ecosystem. Google has rules for Android devices with the Play Store, such as required home screen icons. Microsoft would probably have to work with Google on this. (Yeah I know... rly

 

[jmshub]

I don't see how a Microsoft fork of Android would benefit Microsoft, or the smartphone market.

Right now, the only real benefit of continuing Windows Phone is to try to maintain Windows position in every platform, from phones to televisions. If that vision can't fly, then Microsoft really doesn't any need to develop a mobile OS.

A Microsoft fork of Android would have many of the same problems that plague Windows Phone, namely, a lack of support from Google. And why would a consumer pick Microsoft's Android over the myriad choices of Google powered Android phones out there now?

 

[RumoredNow]

Microsoft can loose money just as rapidly with their own Platform as they could with an Android fork. How many OEM's are failing to profit with Android handsets? Right, virtually all of them outside Uncle Sammy.

This theory also ignores the upcoming HP Elite X3, Acer Liquid Jade Primo, the much teased Alcatel "SuperPhone" and inroads with Japanese OEMs who would not touch Windows Phone previous to 10. The somewhat rapid entrance of OEMs into Windows 10 Mobile speaks clearly toward confirming that the publicly stated policy of retrenchment is being carried out.

Surely, HP alone is proof. Their first smartphone since 2011 is not a tentative "feeler" effort at all: it looks to be all in. I'm certain that HP must have been allowed behind the Microsoft Curtain to see what is coming in order for HP to put all their long incubated smartphone eggs into this one basket.

 

[tgp]

Microsoft can loose money just as rapidly with their own Platform as they could with an Android fork. How many OEM's are failing to profit with Android handsets? Right, virtually all of them outside Uncle Sammy.

That's what we read, but if it is true, why do the OEMs keep producing handsets? It's probably more accurate to say these manufacturers are experiencing an accounting loss, but not in real life. I know from personal experience that this is possible. I am a landlord, and I experience a loss every year when I file my taxes. However, in real life I take in more than I spend. I have no idea if something like this is possible or not for Android OEMs though.

Either way, if an OEM cannot make money selling Android devices which sell by the bucketloads, how do they expect to make money selling Windows Mobile devices, which do not sell by comparison? Microsoft can theoretically benefit by selling devices at break even prices or even a loss because their services are being utilized on these devices, but the manufacturers make money only from device sales.

 

[RumoredNow]

That's what we read, but if it is true, why do the OEMs keep producing handsets? It's probably more accurate to say these manufacturers are experiencing an accounting loss, but not in real life. I know from personal experience that this is possible. I am a landlord, and I experience a loss every year when I file my taxes. However, in real life I take in more than I spend. I have no idea if something like this is possible or not for Android OEMs though.

Sounds like a Hollywood studio... Never take % Profit for your pay, you get zilch. :winktongue:

My theory on Android is that most of the players are conglomerates that are justifying it as a loss leader. Like their Phone? Buy their smart TV, refrigerator, washer/dryer, smart appliances and IoT is the emerging battleground... Peripherals for devices, wearables, warranty plans, a platform that advertises their portfolios through proprietary Apps. True enough these OEMs loose money quarter after quarter on the Android handset, yet make it back somewhere else or hope to.

But I doubt Microsoft wants to become a Samsung or an LG... That's not their long game, general electronics manufacture. Their long game is domination on every screen size through computing and software presence. This is best served by vertically integrating on all the customers screens and going Android takes away a vital current and future control point in maintaining a top to bottom presence throughout every screen size. It doesn't help them to be an "OK maybe I'll try it" choice on phone or tablet. They want and need to be de facto.

Partnerships with CyanogenMod help ameliorate this somewhat within the Android sphere along with projects like flashing Windows Phone to Xiaomi and WP alt versions of handsets already marketed to Android. But that can't be the whole answer...

If Microsoft goes Android they concede control of the smallest screens to other players. Sure they have their Apps there for a "maybe" presence. But then they pay money to those payers to sell in that store, rather than take money from other payers to be in their store.

The more Bloggers, tech enthusiasts, fans, etc. who keep believing the game is over and there will ever only be Android and iOS... The more people you have ignoring the Historical lessons that things change and evolve. Sure we are at a status quo right now, but I'm equally sure that it won't, nay can't, last forever. There are already signs that the current state is nearing saturation levels for what the players can sustain in the consumer sphere. The system is ripe for a change, or ripening quickly.

The past and the present are the story of iOS and Android. The future is always up for grabs. There has never ceased to be alternative choices, though none have really taken off. Of all those alternatives, perhaps Microsoft has the deepest pockets and the strongest will. I don't see them throwing in the towel now.

Almost certainly there will emerge another choice that will take hold of a significant share of the market and become viable. Whether or not that is Windows Phone remains to be seen...

Either way, if an OEM cannot make money selling Android devices which sell by the bucketloads, how do they expect to make money selling Windows Mobile devices, which do not sell by comparison? Microsoft can theoretically benefit by selling devices at break even prices or even a loss because their services are being utilized on these devices, but the manufacturers make money only from device sales.

Quite possibly the hope for OEMs emerging with W10M or expanding their lines in that direction is that the Nokia juggernaut is now done. They formerly squeezed out all other players at each and every price point.

Now there is a chance for an OEM to seize a big piece of a pie. True, it may be a smaller pie but all the slices are available.

It's simply forward thinking and an attempt to be in the driver's seat rather than along for the ride.

If HP can sell you your phone, your tablet, your 2-in-1, your PC... They want a seamless integration across your screens and Microsoft offers them that chance better than any other player. It's lockstep with Microsoft's vision for companies like HP.

 

[fdalbor]

All what has been said has truth and fiction mixed in. After what i have seen since my first windows phone in 2012 i want none of it. When i gave away my 820 and 925 i also gave away any desire i had to fool around with the folly of microsoft and their caravel of smartphone. I am done

 

[tgp]

Sounds like a Hollywood studio... Never take % Profit for your pay, you get zilch. :winktongue:

My theory on Android is that most of the players are conglomerates that are justifying it as a loss leader. Like their Phone? Buy their smart TV, refrigerator, washer/dryer, smart appliances and IoT is the emerging battleground... Peripherals for devices, wearables, warranty plans, a platform that advertises their portfolios through proprietary Apps. True enough these OEMs loose money quarter after quarter on the Android handset, yet make it back somewhere else or hope to.

But I doubt Microsoft wants to become a Samsung or an LG... That's not their long game, general electronics manufacture. Their long game is domination on every screen size through computing and software presence. This is best served by vertically integrating on all the customers screens and going Android takes away a vital current and future control point in maintaining a top to bottom presence throughout every screen size. It doesn't help them to be an "OK maybe I'll try it" choice on phone or tablet. They want and need to be de facto.

Partnerships with CyanogenMod help ameliorate this somewhat within the Android sphere along with projects like flashing Windows Phone to Xiaomi and WP alt versions of handsets already marketed to Android. But that can't be the whole answer...

If Microsoft goes Android they concede control of the smallest screens to other players. Sure they have their Apps there for a "maybe" presence. But then they pay money to those payers to sell in that store, rather than take money from other payers to be in their store.

The more Bloggers, tech enthusiasts, fans, etc. who keep believing the game is over and there will ever only be Android and iOS... The more people you have ignoring the Historical lessons that things change and evolve. Sure we are at a status quo right now, but I'm equally sure that it won't, nay can't, last forever. There are already signs that the current state is nearing saturation levels for what the players can sustain in the consumer sphere. The system is ripe for a change, or ripening quickly.

The past and the present are the story of iOS and Android. The future is always up for grabs. There has never ceased to be alternative choices, though none have really taken off. Of all those alternatives, perhaps Microsoft has the deepest pockets and the strongest will. I don't see them throwing in the towel now.

Almost certainly there will emerge another choice that will take hold of a significant share of the market and become viable. Whether or not that is Windows Phone remains to be seen...




Quite possibly the hope for OEMs emerging with W10M or expanding their lines in that direction is that the Nokia juggernaut is now done. They formerly squeezed out all other players at each and every price point.

Now there is a chance for an OEM to seize a big piece of a pie. True, it may be a smaller pie but all the slices are available.

It's simply forward thinking and an attempt to be in the driver's seat rather than along for the ride.

If HP can sell you your phone, your tablet, your 2-in-1, your PC... They want a seamless integration across your screens and Microsoft offers them that chance better than any other player. It's lockstep with Microsoft's vision for companies like HP.

I have no idea what you said here, but it certainly looks impressive!

 

[sprtfan]

I really don't think that Microsoft will create a forked version of Android. I think the may bring back Project Astoria and create an easy path for old apps to be converted and put into the Store. Depending on who you talk to, Project Astoria was scrapped because it worked to well or that it caused the phone to slow down over time. If both were true, the purchase of Xamarin and being made available for free will still keep the potential for native Windows store apps being made and would help ease the pain of current Windows developers that might have felt betrayed. If it was causing the phone to slow down over time, that might be why the decision was made to really limit the number of handsets that were able to be upgraded to Windows 10. As hardware gets better having the Android sub system may not be as large of a problem. This path would still allow Microsoft to keep their UWP apps vision, keep their own store, and potentially add a large number of apps. The lxcore.sys and lxss.sys have been already added to Windows 10 to make Bash available. I'm guessing that they would rather not take this path if they can't avoid it, but I think they will try something like this before forking Android. Only time will tell though I guess.

 

[Jazmac]

I really don't think that Microsoft will create a forked version of Android. I think the may bring back Project Astoria and create an easy path for old apps to be converted and put into the Store. Depending on who you talk to, Project Astoria was scrapped because it worked to well or that it caused the phone to slow down over time. If both were true, the purchase of Xamarin and being made available for free will still keep the potential for native Windows store apps being made and would help ease the pain of current Windows developers that might have felt betrayed. If it was causing the phone to slow down over time, that might be why the decision was made to really limit the number of handsets that were able to be upgraded to Windows 10. As hardware gets better having the Android sub system may not be as large of a problem. This path would still allow Microsoft to keep their UWP apps vision, keep their own store, and potentially add a large number of apps. The lxcore.sys and lxss.sys have been already added to Windows 10 to make Bash available. I'm guessing that they would rather not take this path if they can't avoid it, but I think they will try something like this before forking Android. Only time will tell though I guess.

Its hard to say man but in totality, they have most of the tools and developers (Garage and CyanogenMod) to do just that. Edge will be running chrome add-on's at some point and so it all seems to be syncing up. If they don't, cool but if they do, I can't say I wouldn't be surprised if they released some hybrid Windows phone.

 

[sprtfan]

Its hard to say man but in totality, they have most of the tools and developers (Garage and CyanogenMod) to do just that. Edge will be running chrome add-on's at some point and so it all seems to be syncing up. If they don't, cool but if they do, I can't say I wouldn't be surprised if they released some hybrid Windows phone.

I think all of the things you mentioned with the exception of CyanogenMod lends itself also to an Android subsystem as well. The main issue I see with an Android fork would be I'm not sure how it would work with UWP apps vision. It would also potentially hurt some partnerships they have with 3rd parties releasing Windows phones later this year if Microsoft dropped it right after they released their phones.
It would be interesting if they made their own Android fork though with all MS services integrated. Amazon didn't have much luck doing it but Microsoft has the services available to make it potentially viable without the Google store. I'd rather that they try to bring back/figure out Project Astoria though and think it has potential.

 

[Jason Gilbert]

I've always thought that forked version of Android was Microsoft's Plan B. One of Microsoft's biggest strengths for businesses is the ability to manage individual users with Outlook/Office 365. If you could bake that in to Android, it would be a compelling product, perhaps even more attractive than convincing people to use a whole other OS for their phones. Sort of an "Android Pro" approach.