10-11-2014 10:32 AM
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  1. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    i used to have the same doubts as you until i discovered hackers(not the malicious kind) managed to run 32-bit x86 coded stuff in the past on the surface RT when windows 8 released
    i can only imagine what microsoft will be able to pull off with full knowledge of their own OS
    Cool.

    I really don't know what some people are complaining about then.

    I want a larger tablet or even a phablet that can operate in both environments. I want to be able to utilize a Wacom pen with the phablet and also the tablet as well as utilizing a keyboard with both. I want apps that can span from my desktop publishing to my phone with multi windows support on all of them when I choose to use them.

    Now.. If this is going to be possible come next spring I'm all for this and I don't see why folks would be upset with a few changes. All apps will have to be universal so Microsoft needs to develop a means to make all of what is available work easily for the developers and what is Microsofts own before releasing anything. Develop a compiler run the scripts test it and bang it's done.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-01-2014 02:13 PM
  2. calbro's Avatar
    You may need to take a dip in some cold water with ice and if it's not cold enough turn on the motor and let run for as much time as it may consume.

    They barely introduce it to us and you already reach extreme judgement on a product which is a project that is still in early development.

    You might just be a great sports writer that can project outcomes before the game is played.
    Karthik Naik, OwenDL and squire777 like this.
    10-01-2014 02:19 PM
  3. DaveGx's Avatar
    Why dont you wait and try it out first before whining? Just a recommendation
    10-01-2014 02:20 PM
  4. SyntacticSyntax's Avatar
    Man, this thread reminded me about this article in The Verge where one was criticizing Windows even though the features that are presented were less than 10% of the Windows 10. Love that comment section where the editor was bombarded with rants.
    10-02-2014 02:17 AM
  5. watchaa's Avatar
    I think Windows 10 will be a really good OS for laptops and desktop PCs, but to achieve this MS sacrificed the hybrids and tablets. With Windows 8 they couldn't solve the duality of a convertible device and they privileged the touch interactions. With Windows 10 they couldn't solve it either but now they privileged mouse and keyboard interactions. It seems MS forgot that PCs are just 14% of the devices sold and falling.

    The "Continuum" concept they showed for hybrids like the Surface Pro 3 is ridiculous. The apps run in full screen except for the taskbar that is always visible, so the user has to use those little tiny icons to switch between apps. A back button is added to the taskbar, good luck reaching that small button, and since when Store Apps need a back button? Hybrids are just an afterthought in Windows 10, on the contrary hybrids were the most important form factor for Windows 8.

    And the most worrying thing is the small tablet that they showed in the picture of all the Windows devices. It's just Windows Phone scaled up, with the same three columns of tiles and the three buttons at the bottom. So, Microsoft just killed all the UI interactions that they introduced for tablets with Windows 8: app switching at the left, charms, closing apps swiping down, back button in the apps. It seems tablets will just run a scaled up WP OS.

    From what they showed I think Microsoft is just trying to secure the desktop market for a few more years until more apps come to Chromebooks. The few details about Windows 10 for touch devices are disappointing. I had high expectations for Windows vnext, but what they showed is mediocre, they couldn't came up with a solution for the duality problem and they decided to secure their position in the PC market.

    I guess Surface Pro 4 won't be called a tablet, that "Continuum" abomination is not a touch interface.
    100% agree.
    Windows 10 is really deceiving.
    I'm feeling to make a step backward in the past....
    10-02-2014 02:33 AM
  6. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    I think that was was only for programs written in .NET, and therefore compatible with the WinRT. Microsoft didn't allow it to be installed because then it would create even more confusion to the average consumer "so I can install this program, but not this one?"
    yeah thats true but it was a proof of concept by third party devs/hackers who wouldnt have knowledge of windows RT and windows 8 in and out
    so microsoft should be able to make this experience more "perfected" since its their own os
    10-02-2014 03:09 AM
  7. excalibur1814's Avatar
    Absolute rubbish. The Modern UI is still there and default for tablets which makes your thoughts a bit silly.

    Just... please... stop.

    It's a Technial PREVIEW
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-02-2014 03:34 AM
  8. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    May i kindly ask you if you have ever tried it in real for long enough to judge it? It's a polite, realistic question because i am trying to understand where you are coming from.

    As far as i know the system will support both interfaces. The touch one for "Tablet-like" devices and the more hybrid-traditional one for bigger devices (PC, notebooks). From the little i have seen (didn't try it and didn't install the preview on any of my PCs as i need them to work) the new version appears to be able to please more or less everyone.

    I reserve to comment when i have the actual thing on hand, refrain from quick comments (enthusiastic or delusional) and wait at least 1 month (of intense usage) to see if the new Windows improves my productivity or not. I do like what is saw to date though.
    The old concept of Windows is a deeply flawed one. They tried to force a tablet-mobile UI into bigger devices like desktops and then left WP phones out of the game (no split screen multitasking, tiles with limited functions). The new path seems smarter. WP will merge with the rest of the bunch and the OS may gain some good functionalities while the desktop/laptop bunch will get hybrid or full desktop functionalities. It's actually a very good solution if well implemented.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-02-2014 04:21 AM
  9. Andrew Kerr2's Avatar
    its a bit early to judge surely..?!
    10-02-2014 05:57 AM
  10. rex.reyesiii's Avatar
    From FoxNews
    The team now working on Windows 10 is different from the one that has been developing Windows Phone. However, we dont know what ideas are in the works and when well see a test build of Windows 10 designed for smartphones. Well keep you updated as we learn more about the future of Windows Phone as it integrates into Windows 10, as well as what features will come with the future update.
    So I guess we'll just have to wait and stop getting ahead of ourselves right?

    If its from Fox, it must be true. :D
    Last edited by rex.reyesiii; 10-02-2014 at 06:49 AM. Reason: added the URL origin of the quote...
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-02-2014 06:48 AM
  11. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    From FoxNews


    So I guess we'll just have to wait and stop getting ahead of ourselves right?

    If its from Fox, it must be true. :D
    this is scary stuff right there i hope they dont pull a windows phone 7 all over again or else ill go suicidal and get an android (no offense just kidding,im never getting an android again unless its the G3 or a Nexus)
    i hope wp8 phones get win 10
    10-02-2014 07:49 AM
  12. fatclue_98's Avatar
    this is scary stuff right there i hope they dont pull a windows phone 7 all over again or else ill go suicidal and get an android (no offense just kidding,im never getting an android again unless its the G3 or a Nexus)
    i hope wp8 phones get win 10
    The G3 is an excellent phone but it doesn't survive falls from a 14th floor very well.
    10-02-2014 08:10 AM
  13. rodan01's Avatar
    May i kindly ask you if you have ever tried it in real for long enough to judge it? It's a polite, realistic question because i am trying to understand where you are coming from.

    As far as i know the system will support both interfaces. The touch one for "Tablet-like" devices and the more hybrid-traditional one for bigger devices (PC, notebooks). From the little i have seen (didn't try it and didn't install the preview on any of my PCs as i need them to work) the new version appears to be able to please more or less everyone.

    I reserve to comment when i have the actual thing on hand, refrain from quick comments (enthusiastic or delusional) and wait at least 1 month (of intense usage) to see if the new Windows improves my productivity or not. I do like what is saw to date though.
    The old concept of Windows is a deeply flawed one. They tried to force a tablet-mobile UI into bigger devices like desktops and then left WP phones out of the game (no split screen multitasking, tiles with limited functions). The new path seems smarter. WP will merge with the rest of the bunch and the OS may gain some good functionalities while the desktop/laptop bunch will get hybrid or full desktop functionalities. It's actually a very good solution if well implemented.
    I've been using Windows 10 since yesterday, and I think It's a step backwards even for desktop users. Microsoft should have improved the Modern UI for mouse and keyboard, find a way to incorporate desktop apps in the modern environment, but they decided to go backwards and wrap all the apps in windows.

    I don't see any value in a windowed apps except for uncommon corner cases. Most of the time the users have one app using all the space or two apps sharing the space in the screen, those use cases are better addressed in the Modern UI with the snap feature, which surely need improvements.
    The chrome wrapping the apps and the always visible taskbar are just space wasted and get in the way of the content, ruining the immersive experience.
    For app switching the Modern UI system is more efficient, most of the time the user switch to the previous app, in Modern UI you just click in the corner without needing any precision and the system takes you to the previous app. In Windows 7 you have to look for the app in the taskbar and move the mouse exactly that point.

    There are many problems of discoverability of the UI elements in Windows 8, but many of them will have to be addressed in Windows 10 anyways. Store Apps need APIs to develop apps optimized for keyboard and mouse, but that will be added in Windows 10 too. So, the windowed environment is not necessary for a good experience for keyboard and mouse.

    I don't find the value in the old Windows, Windows 8 is a better concept that was executed poorly.

    It seems there's no talent in MS to push a change forward, they're just followers. We'll have to wait for Apple or Google do it right, until then the user is condemned to drag and resize Windows without any added value for that effort.
    10-02-2014 08:16 AM
  14. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    The G3 is an excellent phone but it doesn't survive falls from a 14th floor very well.
    yeah my friend learnt that the hard way(literally lol)
    he dropped it while getting down from his car and had removed the cover for some reason ,bam the screen was gone,he luckily had the Big B edition LG G3(gold) so he had a one time free screen replacement done
    10-02-2014 09:32 AM
  15. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    I've been using Windows 10 since yesterday, and I think It's a step backwards even for desktop users. Microsoft should have improved the Modern UI for mouse and keyboard, find a way to incorporate desktop apps in the modern environment, but they decided to go backwards and wrap all the apps in windows.

    I don't see any value in a windowed apps except for uncommon corner cases. Most of the time the users have one app using all the space or two apps sharing the space in the screen, those use cases are better addressed in the Modern UI with the snap feature, which surely need improvements.
    The chrome wrapping the apps and the always visible taskbar are just space wasted and get in the way of the content, ruining the immersive experience.
    For app switching the Modern UI system is more efficient, most of the time the user switch to the previous app, in Modern UI you just click in the corner without needing any precision and the system takes you to the previous app. In Windows 7 you have to look for the app in the taskbar and move the mouse exactly that point.

    There are many problems of discoverability of the UI elements in Windows 8, but many of them will have to be addressed in Windows 10 anyways. Store Apps need APIs to develop apps optimized for keyboard and mouse, but that will be added in Windows 10 too. So, the windowed environment is not necessary for a good experience for keyboard and mouse.

    I don't find the value in the old Windows, Windows 8 is a better concept that was executed poorly.

    It seems there's no talent in MS to push a change forward, they're just followers. We'll have to wait for Apple or Google do it right, until then the user is condemned to drag and resize Windows without any added value for that effort.
    dude you do realize its a Technical Preview not even a consumer preview or something
    as for apple getting it right,itll be too locked down unless major channges are made to osx and ios which would take ages
    as for google getting it right,chrome os isnt even more advanced than android forget windows or osx or even a linux distro

    its too early and not fair to say its a step back or put down the microsoft devs who made it happen
    10-02-2014 09:36 AM
  16. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    "I've been using Windows 10 since yesterday, and I think It's a step backwards even for desktop users. Microsoft should have improved the Modern UI for mouse and keyboard, find a way to incorporate desktop apps in the modern environment, but they decided to go backwards and wrap all the apps in windows."

    I respect your opinion because it's your tastes.
    My opinion is:
    1) One day may not be enough to test productivity.
    2) What you are suggesting in the sentence i quoted above is exactly what most users didn't want. Interact with the "modern UI" (which is modern only in the looks but not in functionalities and fits well tablets and mobile devices rather than desktops.
    3) It's a preview

    Nobody i know would like to operate in the modern UI environment because it has too many limitations. among which:
    A) Icons/tiles look too big and take too much space (they do look damn good though)
    B) Doesn't support multitasking except for 2 screens at a time and the windows are not really freely resizable as you do on the standard desktop.
    C) Many menus are counter-intuitive (even for advanced or power users) and many got tired of it.

    Remember these are the reasons for low adoption of Win 8 (among others) and the source of most complaints. Modern UI is very good looking but it's definitely not done for productivity on desktop/notebooks, while it's 10x better than Android on smaller devices. For me Microsoft is doing the right move, if the OS works properly.
    I am not against your opinion. But i want to try it by myself before.

    Thanks for you kind reply. Deeply appreciated.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-02-2014 09:38 AM
  17. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    Absolute rubbish. The Modern UI is still there and default for tablets which makes your thoughts a bit silly.

    Just... please... stop.

    It's a Technial PREVIEW
    exactly i dont get why people are bashing windows 10 for no reason ,its a technical preview not even consumer preview or something
    Brandon Tobias and neo158 like this.
    10-02-2014 09:38 AM
  18. psoham777's Avatar
    Yeah, we can discuss the cons of Windows 10, once its officially out
    10-02-2014 09:42 AM
  19. mmcpher's Avatar
    Rodan01, many people inside Microsoft and out, saw the benefits and potential in Windows 8 and Metro and all that. But not enough of them and many, many people resisted and objected to the changes. So Microsoft, in the midst of transforming itself and the way it does business, stepped up and out early with what I see as some promising adjustments. I too, have had the Technical Preview since yesterday. I'm still feeling around in it without words such as "horrible" and "abomination" rising in me. I like what I see in the release so far, and really like what I see as a positive and responsive intelligence within Microsoft. They are acting like a company that sees market share as something other than a cudgel to be used against competitors and customers. This was not always the case. Market share dominance is something perpetually at risk, but it is also a vast and largely untapped resource, if only Microsoft makes itself open to customer and user feedback.

    Sure, the release is not an infinitely and instantaneously flexible UI which magically expands and contracts while never losing clarity so that it perfectly fits every device everywhere. Windows 10 shows potential to be customizable while remaining largely consistent across desktops, tablets and phones. I would think that there will have to be some initial effort on the part of users to get the full benefits of "One Platform, many user experiences", as the OS is deployed on various devices. I want to be able to tweak it for my widescreen desktop, tweak it differently for my Surface Pro 3 and still more differently on my Windows Phone, while having access and use of the same apps on all 3. I can howl and caterwaul the whole while. The tyranny of having to fit your OS to your devices and to the idiosyncratic ways in which you use them! Once I've done this customization, I expect that I will largely leave well enough alone. I like that vision a whole lot better than the locked-down, stultifying static of an ubiquitous UI that by its very omnipresence, however scaled up or down, becomes oppressive.
    10-02-2014 10:18 AM
  20. Brandon Tobias's Avatar
    I've been using Windows 10 since yesterday, and I think It's a step backwards even for desktop users. Microsoft should have improved the Modern UI for mouse and keyboard, find a way to incorporate desktop apps in the modern environment, but they decided to go backwards and wrap all the apps in windows.

    I don't see any value in a windowed apps except for uncommon corner cases. Most of the time the users have one app using all the space or two apps sharing the space in the screen, those use cases are better addressed in the Modern UI with the snap feature, which surely need improvements.
    The chrome wrapping the apps and the always visible taskbar are just space wasted and get in the way of the content, ruining the immersive experience.
    For app switching the Modern UI system is more efficient, most of the time the user switch to the previous app, in Modern UI you just click in the corner without needing any precision and the system takes you to the previous app. In Windows 7 you have to look for the app in the taskbar and move the mouse exactly that point.

    There are many problems of discoverability of the UI elements in Windows 8, but many of them will have to be addressed in Windows 10 anyways. Store Apps need APIs to develop apps optimized for keyboard and mouse, but that will be added in Windows 10 too. So, the windowed environment is not necessary for a good experience for keyboard and mouse.

    I don't find the value in the old Windows, Windows 8 is a better concept that was executed poorly.

    It seems there's no talent in MS to push a change forward, they're just followers. We'll have to wait for Apple or Google do it right, until then the user is condemned to drag and resize Windows without any added value for that effort.
    This is the last time i will repeat myself

    1) THIS IS A TECHNICAL PREVIEW I.E. its very early software meaning its very flexible and MS will add or change features.

    2) I did not want to make this point but MS & Windows does not revolve around what you want .... since you do not represent the entire Enterprise customer base or represent the whole of MS regular consumer base you are on a boat by yourself sorry. (that's how you come off to me i could be wrong)

    3) Modern UI/APPS 2.0 with the new API's and there will be new API's has not been talked about yet so the UI will change and evolve here along with new features. It is speculated that during some days in November and November 12th MS will discuss morder 2.0 with developers and push universal app development.

    4) I like the windowed apps as i tend to run both modern and win x86 apps together, it makes my life easier. It sounds like you want a phone where apps are immersive this is a computer not an over sized phone its meant for productivity and entertainment and as others have said MS can change allot so they can even add an immersive mode for you if you suggest it enough times. BTW most people use multiple apps and have many windows open so windowed modern apps make more sense than always immersive apps.

    BTW you want your apps the old Windows 8 way there is a button for that, MS Windows team are not idiots. If you had took the time to explore you would have seen this and other options in Windows 10 ... full screen takes you back to the way apps used to work

    img untitled.png

    it does not stay immersive if you close it but its still an option they gave us. Please see the good MS has done so far.

    5) The OS is named Windows ... so i don't understand why you don't see the value in windowed modern apps as both Google and Apple have every thing run in a window on their OS .... and i don't see apple merging IOS and OSX any time soon apple only does things when they have perfected it so you may have a very long wait. i see merit in what you say but for a power user windowed apps are better but the option to go immersive or full screen for both desktop and modern apps should be there like what Apple offers.

    You say MS has no talent well sir when you learn to build and operating system and have a degree dedicated to UI design and function you go right ahead and design an OS for yourself to used. the way i see it your views and ideas seem to be more important and you are not understanding the fact the Windows is designed for every one to use ... most of which are Business , Enterprise, Corporate then regular customers. its going to take time and patients and a willingness to change and help MS fulfill its vision of a balanced windows 10 that can appeal to both enterprise and consumers.

    That's all i have to say i'm not here to fight .... but some will not like this post as i am blunt and to the point as well as the fact its an early OS that will change significantly over the next 7 to 9 months .... wait for the final to judge and in the mean time help MS shape the OS ....
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-02-2014 10:28 AM
  21. Brandon Tobias's Avatar
    Rodan01, many people inside Microsoft and out, saw the benefits and potential in Windows 8 and Metro and all that. But not enough of them and many, many people resisted and objected to the changes. So Microsoft, in the midst of transforming itself and the way it does business, stepped up and out early with what I see as some promising adjustments. I too, have had the Technical Preview since yesterday. I'm still feeling around in it without words such as "horrible" and "abomination" rising in me. I like what I see in the release so far, and really like what I see as a positive and responsive intelligence within Microsoft. They are acting like a company that sees market share as something other than a cudgel to be used against competitors and customers. This was not always the case. Market share dominance is something perpetually at risk, but it is also a vast and largely untapped resource, if only Microsoft makes itself open to customer and user feedback.

    Sure, the release is not an infinitely and instantaneously flexible UI which magically expands and contracts while never losing clarity so that it perfectly fits every device everywhere. Windows 10 shows potential to be customizable while remaining largely consistent across desktops, tablets and phones. I would think that there will have to be some initial effort on the part of users to get the full benefits of "One Platform, many user experiences", as the OS is deployed on various devices. I want to be able to tweak it for my widescreen desktop, tweak it differently for my Surface Pro 3 and still more differently on my Windows Phone, while having access and use of the same apps on all 3. I can howl and caterwaul the whole while. The tyranny of having to fit your OS to your devices and to the idiosyncratic ways in which you use them! Once I've done this customization, I expect that I will largely leave well enough alone. I like that vision a whole lot better than the locked-down, stultifying static of an ubiquitous UI that by its very omnipresence, however scaled up or down, becomes oppressive.
    Thank you so much IDK why he fears the worst ....
    10-02-2014 10:37 AM
  22. Brandon Tobias's Avatar
    From FoxNews


    So I guess we'll just have to wait and stop getting ahead of ourselves right?

    If its from Fox, it must be true. :D
    Yes its true MS said Windows 10 is also the new mobile phone OS .... but remember its not a break like the one from 7 to 8. as WP 7 ran its own core where as W8 & WP8 ran on the same core. the W8 and WP8.1 core is what has been carried over to W10 and improved so like MS said older devices will be able to run it with a reduced feature set like the 520 but its nothing to be scared about i'm glad its a one OS show.

    That's why MS has been backing away from the Windows Phone name and using things like HTC M8 for Windows so when Windows 10 comes out you can upgrade all windows devices not wait for a special phone edition.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-02-2014 10:43 AM
  23. OwenDL's Avatar
    This thread is absolutely ridiculous. The preview has been out for literally less then a day and people are acting like it's the final release.

    Anything can change, and it's more than likely that when the OS is released officially, it will be remarkably different from what we're seeing in the Technical Preview.
    10-02-2014 10:56 AM
  24. NOLATechy's Avatar
    Dude, did you watch the video with Joe Belfiore? He stated in the video that the Tech Preview is only the "shell" of Windows 10. That means they are still working on code. There are options that are NOT yet included in the Tech Preview. The ONLY purpose for the Tech Preview is to allow users to use the "feedback app" included in the Tech Preview to send requests and trouble spots back to Microsoft so they can be changed. If you're not happy with something in Windows 10, instead of typing all that junk online here, go into the feedback app in Win10 and send it to Microsoft. That's what it's there for. Do you really think that Microsoft would abandon the tablet UI? Joe said they are still working on the "Continuum" software, so it's not even complete yet and you're online complaining about it! Dude, chill out!
    10-02-2014 11:03 AM
  25. Brandon Tobias's Avatar
    Dude, did you watch the video with Joe Belfiore? He stated in the video that the Tech Preview is only the "shell" of Windows 10. That means they are still working on code. There are options that are NOT yet included in the Tech Preview. The ONLY purpose for the Tech Preview is to allow users to use the "feedback app" included in the Tech Preview to send requests and trouble spots back to Microsoft so they can be changed. If you're not happy with something in Windows 10, instead of typing all that junk online here, go into the feedback app in Win10 and send it to Microsoft. That's what it's there for. Do you really think that Microsoft would abandon the tablet UI? Joe said they are still working on the "Continuum" software, so it's not even complete yet and you're online complaining about it! Dude, chill out!
    NO MS IS BUILDING WINDOWS FOR HIM ... WHO CARES ABOUT THE REST OF US ...... i say lets leave him alone and ignore future comments ...
    10-02-2014 11:06 AM
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