08-14-2015 09:13 PM
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  1. Luigi Lop's Avatar
    we need to keep voicing these doubts! we cant let this thread die nor we can let go spamming this on other sites!|
    02-03-2015 02:35 AM
  2. Wevenhuis's Avatar
    The only thing I'm worried about is the transcript of on an online dev response on someone's questions of the present taskbar at the bottom and that currently there was apparantly a high count of keeping the taskbar in tablet mode. As long as I have worked with my surface pro I have not seen any use of needing a taskbar in tablet mode. Yes I do need it on the desktop sometimes. The taskbar in windows 10 present as standard in tablet mode is beyond my understanding. To be honest for business the adding of the taskbar in tablet mode sounds like a niche function, just like we windows central users and fans have our wishes for certain changes. I've used window 8.x for over 2 years on my surface pro and it never came to mind that I needed the taskbar in tablet mode. What would be the added benefit of that. To me it seems far fetched. The charmsbar and pinned tiles already did a lot of what the taskbar can do. But now that I write this I think I get what microsoft did. They're perhaps phasing out the functionality of the charmsbar and pinnable tiles, so that the end user will pin apps, inks, and tiles to the taskbar.

    For me the familiar experience of windows for a tablet is still the windows start menu with live tiles and the charms bar, no matter what business says.
    ​I got some time to install windows 10 on surface pro first 10 and have a go at the OS. Tablet mode in winodws 10, compared to my experience with windows 8.1, is still in its infancy in this technical preview. There is a lot of work to be done. Tablet mode is far from stable and in its current form feels like a virtual machine in a next generation windows 7 operating system. The biggest changes are the loss of the start screen, app bars and charmsbar compared to windows 8.1 with regard to the modern UI/metro and tablet experience. It is replaced by a hidden windows title bar with a hamburger settings menu at the top left. Now the interesting, but yet confusing part is that apps still have app bar functionality. The swiping gestures have been mechanised into a button, known as the app command hidden within the hamburger menu. Contextual charms bar app menus are also present, but are also mechanised as the settings button in the hamburger settings button. I'm still trying to understand how I'm going to incorporate this into my new workflow in a couple of months time. I think it seems okay when using a mouse and keyboard, I guess. But as a tablet user, thinking mobile and touch and gesture based interaction with the device in your hand with no mouse and keyboard, it is a surprising choice to make.
    02-03-2015 05:35 PM
  3. jhoff80's Avatar
    ​Now the interesting, but yet confusing part is that apps still have app bar functionality. The swiping gestures have been mechanised into a button, known as the app command hidden within the hamburger menu. Contextual charms bar app menus are also present, but are also mechanised as the settings button in the hamburger settings button.
    ​This is only for backwards compatibility. If you notice, any Windows 10 - specific app (Photos, Store (Beta)) will not have that menu. It's clear that what Microsoft wants is for app developers to update their apps to remove menus from there. Unfortunately, if previous history is any guide, they will be completely and totally unsuccessful with this.
    Andrew Gordon likes this.
    02-03-2015 06:34 PM
  4. bschiav's Avatar
    I'm finding myself always trying to swipe through apps in win 10 only to get that stupid screen where my open apps are minimized and I need to pick between them.

    Again this is wasted movement. It is much easier and more natural to just swipe through my open apps then swipe and try and pick from a minimized set of icons of open apps.

    Literally with win 8.1 on a tablet if you think of how swipe should naturally work they just do. That is the beauty of it even if I do not know for sure if a swipe command is supported if it feels like a natural thing 9 times out of 10 it will work.

    In Win 10 Tablet mode nothing feels natural everything is 2 steps more than it should be. It is a frustrating experience to say the least.

    When using Tablet mode it really should just switch all swipe actions to be like win 8.1

    Just make a really good tutorial video instead of trying to add wasted visual queues to everything.

    Tablet GUI's should just naturally work and visually the GUI should get out of the way. Stop trying to shoe horn PITA visual queues that stop the flow of navigation on a tablet.

    In win 8.1 the GUI only appeared when you purposely wanted it to.
    It's amazing how you don't appreciate what you've got until it's gone isn't it? This is such a predicament for MS...because of marketing issues and initial fumbles with Win8, I think we now have the massive mind shift back the other direction. You can't really fault them for it now...it's really for sins of the past (sorta). Because if Win8.1 came along quicker and had a start menu for desktop users...I don't even think we'd be questioning that all was needed, were refinements for a Win 9. And not an overhaul for Win10.

    After some more time with Win10...I do have to say that, the desktop mode is GREAT...I would love to upgrade from Win 7 to Win 10 for my work PC. But I still stand by my earlier comments, because for me...I'm 90% in a tablet function when at home...conundrum on how to make this all work seamlessly.

    (Nice to be Apple here huh? Stand by and twiddle your thumbs until MS figures this all out. It will be interesting to see how they converge OS's at some point in the future and start handling touch. From Microsoft lessons learned, I'm sure)
    Joe920 likes this.
    02-13-2015 10:33 AM
  5. CSJr1's Avatar
    Windows 8.1 had it right. Horizontal scrolling tiles in landscape mode, vertical in portrait. If you want a task bar it would be better to "short pull" from bottom and "long pull" could bring list apps with task bar.
    Andrew Gordon and bschiav like this.
    02-13-2015 04:27 PM
  6. ininjam's Avatar
    So much whining..Even when a developer himself has joined in on the conversation with promise for changes..This is still a desktop-centric TP for god's sake. So what if they want to keep the taskbar visible? There're a million ways (figuratively speaking) for them to tweak the taskbar visually and functionally to make it more touch-friendly, and if you can't figure it out, well, that's why you're not a MS UI designer. Start screen sucked and failed, because it's basically a lesser desktop that is layered ON TOP of the normal desktop (somehow anyone thought that's a good idea is ridiculous to me) with jarring transitions between the two. If you want your Start screen back, do tell me that you're preparing to only use Modern apps, because anything to do with desktop apps and we will come back to where Start screen failed again. Best solution of couse would be to merge desktop with Start screen i.e. Live tiles on desktop, better icon spacing (actually could be a Continuum feature.)
    02-13-2015 04:46 PM
  7. Luigi Lop's Avatar
    yes. I want to use and i do use only modern apps on my tablet. ON MY TABLET. As it was already said countless times, we want the full immersive tablet only experience back because we DO USE a windows tablet. And honestly i use modern apps on my laptop to reproduce video( easy 0 configuration full hw acceleration for 1080p content using 1% or less cpu) and do some other stuff that would require otherwise a browser, and on the 10 tp i hate how they go as a window but with the taskbar
    02-14-2015 08:37 PM
  8. jhoff80's Avatar
    If you want your Start screen back, do tell me that you're preparing to only use Modern apps, because anything to do with desktop apps and we will come back to where Start screen failed again.
    ​Actually, how desktop apps work now when tablet mode is enabled is the single good tablet design decision in this build. Desktop programs are treated like a Metro app (with pull down to close, Metro snap, etc.) instead of needing basically the desktop as a container that a bunch of apps run in independently like in 8.1. I'd be all for bringing back 8.1's design for tablet mode and keeping that feature. That'd actually be a pretty perfect tablet experience, in my opinion.
    bschiav, a5cent and Mr. Brown like this.
    02-14-2015 09:48 PM
  9. DWill22's Avatar
    I really hope they can sort this out before launch or I will be sticking with win 8.1. I think Win 8.1 works perfect on both desktop and tablets but some people resistant to the slightest change apparently disagree. I am not sure Microsoft understand what they are doing at this point.
    02-16-2015 03:15 PM
  10. John Walter1's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the Tablet mode is not stable enough. However, I still prefer it instead of Win8.1's Tablet mode.
    02-18-2015 05:40 AM
  11. Blkacesvf41's Avatar
    I rolled mine back to 8.1 after a couple of hours! Snapping and resizing of the apps is cumbersome. I also didn't like the way to get to the apps settings and commands. It should be one simple swipe either from the bottom or top.
    02-18-2015 06:00 AM
  12. bschiav's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the Tablet mode is not stable enough. However, I still prefer it instead of Win8.1's Tablet mode.
    In what ways do you prefer the Windows 10 tablet mode? (The way it currently stands...understanding that changes hopefully are coming).
    02-18-2015 11:46 AM
  13. Guzzler3's Avatar
    Well, right now the TP is really geared for desktop use. Does anyone think that the next build (February) will start delving into getting the tablet features working? Or will we be waiting for the March or later build?

    I ask this because I really want to jump on the bandwagon for testing, but only on my SP3.
    02-19-2015 12:50 PM
  14. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
    I'm actually enjoying this experience. There are some things I would change. I don't like the side bar on the Start Screen where the All Apps list can show up. I like having the taskbar, though it could be tweaked a bit in tablet mode, BUT it's nice to see the time and my wifi signal at all times. Would be nice to be able to treat it like the Windows Phone bar on my HTC One, where I can swipe from the bottom to hide/unhide.

    I'd prefer an All Apps cue on the left side of the Start Screen that points left and opens up the all apps screen where it is now when tapped.

    I dislike only having IE on desktop, but that will be fixed with Spartan. LOVE the Edge rendering engine.

    I also like having scrolling move in one direction on all Windows devices. It confuses people when scrolling directions change. It goes vertical on the phone and I'm fine with it staying vertical on the tablet.
    02-21-2015 09:20 PM
  15. anon(5335899)'s Avatar
    I installed the TP on my Linx7 yesterday and as-is it's quite a step back from WIN8.1 for touch/tablets.

    We know that the main focus is Desktop for now and it's likely that the touch UI/UX will change but right now it's quite clumsy I would agree.

    As I understand it now, eventually devices >8inch will all share the same UI which will be more like what the phone UI is now. That would be just fine with me really but I do hope that a portrait/landscape mode is retained for this mode on all devices, it would certainly improve the experience on phones as well.

    If we look at where we are now I could live with the vertical scrolling even though I think horizontal scrolling is better for landscape mode. The taskbar I do not really mind much but it would be an improvement if it would overlay on the start screen. I agree with the earlier mentioned point of the applist, that is not all that intuitive as it is now, I'd like to see that go back to how 8.1 does this. And obviously if I exit an app I should return to a full screen start screen/menu and not a grayed out desktop. But is am expecting those to be fixed in coming TP releases.
    02-23-2015 02:27 AM
  16. swanlee's Avatar
    Well, right now the TP is really geared for desktop use. Does anyone think that the next build (February) will start delving into getting the tablet features working? Or will we be waiting for the March or later build?

    I ask this because I really want to jump on the bandwagon for testing, but only on my SP3.
    If they really want to go RTM in the summer they need to fix the Tablets stuff in the next two builds.

    Also my main problems with the Tablet mode is that they actually intended this and intend it to act this way in the final release.

    Joe Belifore has clearly said they intended to remove charms, and they intend to have the taskbar visible at all times EVEN in tablet mode and EVEN on tablets as small as 8 inches. They also intend to remove the full Win 8 start screen.

    My biggest issue with Win 10 is not that it is in Beta or buggy but it is the intended changes they have made and these changes they want in the final release.

    At this point win 8.1 is going to be the Win XP for Tablets. I'm not killing the tablet experience for a couple of new features.
    02-23-2015 12:20 PM
  17. anon(5335899)'s Avatar
    Joe Belifore has clearly said they intended to remove charms, and they intend to have the taskbar visible at all times EVEN in tablet mode and EVEN on tablets as small as 8 inches. They also intend to remove the full Win 8 start screen.
    Would you mind sharing your source for this as I have not seen these claims being made by Joe Belfiore at all. All I have seen and heard is 'This is very early/rough and things will change, especially with regards to touch"
    02-23-2015 02:05 PM
  18. swanlee's Avatar
    Would you mind sharing your source for this as I have not seen these claims being made by Joe Belfiore at all. All I have seen and heard is 'This is very early/rough and things will change, especially with regards to touch"

    I posted this on the first page of this thread, from Joe B's own twitter,straight from the horses mouth


    joebelfiore @joebelfiore 16h 16 hours ago

    @benstoic yep, we intend taskbar to be present in tablet mode. Thats quick access to start menu (4 pcs w no HW button), + Cortana, taskview
    View conversation
    0 replies 11 retweets 16 favorites
    02-26-2015 07:47 AM
  19. alexander0311's Avatar
    why they dont make the task bar pretty much the same as "on screen" nav bar from phones? 1st, it is autohiding if the app or such is telling it to. 2nd you can hide or unhide it, also it is ovarlying the app with a bit of transparency(not resizing it so no loss in resolution)

    my guess is that a task bar acting like this, ON Tablet Mode, will satisfy many ppl
    Last edited by alexander0311; 02-26-2015 at 09:44 AM.
    02-26-2015 09:30 AM
  20. swanlee's Avatar
    Yep anything but what they are doing now,an always visible taskbar on a small tablet is a horrible waste of space and not easy to use for touch purposes, also setting the current task bar to auto hide is really buggy, doesn't pop up when you want and then stick around to long when you don't.

    So odd they are throwing away all the good touch ui elements from Win 8.1.
    02-26-2015 10:31 AM
  21. Wevenhuis's Avatar
    I had a go at putting a few ideas together about what I would consider tablet mode a more functional experience in windows 10. Forgive the mockup design, I am not a designer. Just looking at windows 10 from a daily tablet use perspective. My reference is the tablet experience I have with my surface pro.

    https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=file%2cpptx

    So what do you think?
    03-03-2015 08:46 AM
  22. swanlee's Avatar
    I had a go at putting a few ideas together about what I would consider tablet mode a more functional experience in windows 10. Forgive the mockup design, I am not a designer. Just looking at windows 10 from a daily tablet use perspective. My reference is the tablet experience I have with my surface pro.

    https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=file%2cpptx

    So what do you think?
    That looks real good and would give enough custom options so tablet mode could function how ever a user wanted it to. You should post this on the windows insider forums so MS will see it.
    03-03-2015 09:01 AM
  23. Paolo Cardelli's Avatar
    SUGGESTIONS to further improve Windows 10 "Tablet Mode" starting from build 10041:


    •Boot to "Full-Screen Start Menu" by default when Tablet Mode is permanently activated in Settings;
    •Hide Taskbar by Default while in Tablet Mode, everywhere. Make it visible only by swiping from the bottom edge of the screen, like a the current menu list charms in modern apps;
    •Make an "Immersive" version of Project Spartan like the current IE11 Metro while in Tablet Mode;
    •Bring back the 8.1 Apps-Snapping style while in Tablet Mode;
    •Hide any "old-Desktop" Windows behind the "Full-Screen Start Menu" background/transparency while in Tablet Mode;
    •Make a modern full-screen "Windows Explorer" instead of opening "old-Desktop" Explorer while in Tablet Mode (this is the BIGGEST limit of 8.1 right now, maybe the only real one);
    •Bring back the new announced precision touchpad gestures even on Touch Screens (Always, not only while in Tablet Mode);
    •Keep the "Swipe down from upper charm" to close apps while in Tablet Mode;
    •Hide the "minimize Start Menu" icon (on top right corner) when Tablet Mode is permanently activated in Settings;
    •Enable Cortana searches directly on the "Full-Screen Start Menu" (on top right corner, with 8.1 Search button) when in Tablet Mode;
    •Insert "Share" and "Play To" contextual buttons on Action Center (Always, not only on Tablet Mode);
    •Make Action Center Full-Screen by height "Charm Bar style" when activated in Tablet Mode;
    •Insert clock time and date, Always visible in bottom right corner on top of "Full-Screen Start Menu" while in Tablet Mode (Xbox One style);
    •Just literally kill "old-Desktop" while in Tablet Mode...


    Discussion continues on official MS Forums -> Windows 10 "Tablet Mode" Experience is much WORSE than Windows - Microsoft Community
    03-21-2015 07:16 AM
  24. FrankDevR's Avatar
    I just have to say, I agree with the OP. The Windows 10 tablet experience is shockingly bad. It's a huge step back. Considering the 'Windows 10' title symbolizes a huge leap forward, I would expect Windows 10 to make Windows 8.1 tablets feel clunky and awkward. In fact, the opposite is true, and Windows 10 would be more appropriately titled Windows 7.5. It feels like an alpha build prototype of something that might one day become Windows 8.1...

    The whole tablet mode vs desktop mode design philosophy is at war with itself. Where 8.1 was the marriage, 10 is the separation.. I design applications and web sites on my Surface Pro 3. I don't switch between desktop mode and tablet mode, because Windows 8.1 is all of it. I use pen, mouse, keyboard, and touch. I use it all. I'm not stuck in an old mindset of mouse is for desktop and touch is for tablet. If I connect a keyboard or a mouse, it does not mean I want the OS to change. It means I want to type on a keyboard instead of the screen, or it means I'm choosing to add the precision of a mouse in addition to touch.

    Windows 8.1 is the best version of Windows yet. It's just sad to see this retreat from innovation and a return to old ways. Title bars and taskbars. So ugly. Such a waste. Why would I 'upgrade' Windows 8.1 to Windows 7.5? And why would I buy another Surface tablet when touch UI is no longer the focus?
    theefman, Al_2, Joe920 and 2 others like this.
    03-28-2015 06:54 AM
  25. Dot Matrix's Avatar
    The next Insiders build really needs an updated Continuum UX, or that's it. I'm afraid Windows 10 will be a lost cause on Surface and other tabs. I find it hard to believe anyone inside Microsoft finds a Windows 7 workflow more "efficient" than the Immersive UX of Windows 8.1 on anything other than a desktop. I was really excited for Continuum, but now I see that Microsoft is running in fear for reasons unknown. C'mon guys, Windows 7 failed on tablets for a reason, let's not repeat history!

    * The always on taskbar adds no functionality, takes up space, and gets in the way.
    * Spartan doesn't offer a chromeless UX, or true fullscreen UX, again the controls just get in the way, and waste space for those that want a full screen UX.
    * The vertical layout of apps and Start Screen reduces readability on *horizontal* tabs (and desktop monitors!), and reduces the amount of tiles that can be viewed at once.
    * All Apps is again left to a sliver of real estate, and again gives me the cramped feeling which made me hate the old Start Menu in Windows XP and Windows 7. I have a whole screen full of pixels that are going to waste here!
    * OneNote preview is a complete step backwards since the loss of the fullscreen UX, and the radial menu.

    I believe that Windows 10 could be a great OS, it's taking the best of Windows 7, but needlessly threw away the best of Windows 8.1! Don't make that mistake!
    jhoff80 and 920Walker like this.
    04-04-2015 04:14 PM
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