09-25-2015 02:50 PM
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  1. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I'm shuddering too brother 'Mutt

    Sent from my Ancient HTC Titan II on WP7.8 using Tapatalk because I like slumming every now and then
    snowmutt likes this.
    03-06-2015 05:48 PM
  2. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Honestly, love me some BB. Always have. But I see the direction they are moving, and if Mr. Chen has his way (which there is no reason to think he won't), this will be a services company. They will release phones simply because with them not manufacturing them much anymore, it is cost effective so long as enterprise users and government agencies are interested.

    But I had to use a Note for a while as a backup device, and I am so over the Google experience. Forget the app gap- there is one. I just think the apps run poorly on Android. I think the phones- even the high end ones- end up laggy. If I had to leave Windows, I would put Android at the bottom of my list. That BB is depending on Google Play services which require a GMail account and often Google+ accounts which in turn have pushing advertising to you whether you want it or not an art form, makes me worry about BB devices. It makes sense from a business sense, as does using the Amazon services. Just may be enough to keep me from actually buying a BB.

    Have I mentioned my opinion on that portrait slider idea yet??

    *shudders in excitement*
    Actually, BlackBerry phones do NOT support Google Play Services. Their phones have the Android runtime, which allows them to install and run Android apps, but apps that require Google Play Services do not work. 10.3.1 comes with the Amazon Appstore preinstalled, but most Amazon apps do not require Google Play Services.

    The day BB phones support Google Play Services is the day I start looking for a Windows phone. And I certainly hope Windows does not implement the Android runtime, either, as has been rumored. I want no part of Google, thank you.
    snowmutt and prasath1234 like this.
    03-06-2015 05:52 PM
  3. Alain_A's Avatar
    Actually, BlackBerry phones do NOT support Google Play Services. Their phones have the Android runtime, which allows them to install and run Android apps, but apps that require Google Play Services do not work. 10.3.1 comes with the Amazon Appstore preinstalled, but most Amazon apps do not require Google Play Services.

    The day BB phones support Google Play Services is the day I start looking for a Windows phone. And I certainly hope Windows does not implement the Android runtime, either, as has been rumored. I want no part of Google, thank you.

    there is a way to install Google play service on a Berry.....
    03-06-2015 07:39 PM
  4. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    there is a way to install Google play service on a Berry.....

    It's not a feature that ships with the OS. You have to patch it yourself.
    03-06-2015 08:23 PM
  5. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I think Microsoft could do well to get Blackberry to produce enterprise-level devices. They're best-known for their security and appealing well to that sector, so if they were an OEM for Windows 10, it would probably be a good get for the device portfolio. I don't think they should buy the company (if that was the solution, I'd just patent security tech and create a device in-house), but if they could get Blackberry to release a Windows Phone version of their next device, it could be a smart pairing.
    Alain_A, snowmutt, Praxius and 1 others like this.
    03-06-2015 08:24 PM
  6. Alain_A's Avatar
    It's not a feature that ships with the OS. You have to patch it yourself.
    yes, you do but at least, it is available for you to do so
    03-06-2015 10:02 PM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    It's not a feature that ships with the OS. You have to patch it yourself.

    Not exactly a con, we put PfD for WP8.1 and Insider to get the W10 Tech Preview. Neither of those ship with the OS. Sideloads, homebrews, whatever you want to call them, they're available for most platforms.
    snowmutt likes this.
    03-06-2015 10:30 PM
  8. spideymaniac's Avatar
    Whoa this is interesting read, i am using Lumia and Z10 and quite like em both, on Z10, i love Hub, it's just splendid! But i see no reason why would MS buy BlackBerry, but i'd like to see BlackBerry become big again, just so their apps are growing!
    snowmutt likes this.
    03-07-2015 06:19 AM
  9. ianberg's Avatar
    Microsoft has stated it is Cloud First, Mobile First (software) and BlackBerry has cut back its hardware lineup to focus on software. They're positioning to be direct competitors rather than positioning for a merger.

    Sent from my Lumia 710 using Tapatalk
    03-08-2015 02:11 PM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Microsoft has stated it is Cloud First, Mobile First (software) and BlackBerry has cut back its hardware lineup to focus on software. They're positioning to be direct competitors rather than positioning for a merger.

    Sent from my Lumia 710 using Tapatalk
    It would not kill Microsoft to enter into a symbiotic relationship with BlackBerry as Samsung has. By helping each other they stand a better chance to climb the ladder instead of trading paint and letting the leaders pull even further ahead.
    03-08-2015 03:34 PM
  11. ohgood's Avatar
    1 How much screen do you have left when the virtual keyboard is active?
    2 Ever try doing an Excel project in landscape without a physical keyboard?
    3 Smartphone doesn't mean watching YouTube or playing games.



    *4 Sent from my iPad Mini 3 using Tapatalk because it amuses me. Gotta problem with that?

    1 depends on the keyboard. sometimes 1/3 of the screen, sometimes half. i haven't thought about it before. it might not be an issue for my uses.

    2 (i think you're talking about on a phone/tablet, but not certain) no, i've never seen anyone use excel on a phone or tablet, let alone in landscape or portrait mode. usually, i see facebook, chrome, 4chan, reddit, or maps on the screen as i'm walking by. i've never seen the cells of excel, the UI of word, or the powerpoint UI happening on a tablet or phone.

    3 but smartphones do youtube, games, and internet incredibly well. i'm confused, if they aren't for youtube, games, and GIS, what are they for ?

    *4 I lol'd when i read the sigline. yes, it's cool to use what you like. :)
    03-09-2015 06:59 AM
  12. fatclue_98's Avatar
    3 but smartphones do youtube, games, and internet incredibly well. i'm confused, if they aren't for youtube, games, and GIS, what are they for ?
    Smartphones were not made for games, YouTube or media consumption. The 1st gen iPhone made that distinction, not the BlackBerrys, Treos or iPAQs that ruled the roost. Android and iPhone did NOT invent the smartphone, they just re-defined them for use by the general public.

    If you've never seen Excel or Word out in the wild is because the people who use those apps are generally in an indoor setting. There's a reason that Office is one of the top selling points for WP. There's a reason BB is touting "Work Wide" for its Passport. There's a reason that Office & Outlook on iOS and Android is being discussed so much in the media and whined about incessantly here on WPC. Smartphones are for business, anything else is a byproduct of the technology used.
    03-09-2015 10:09 AM
  13. ohgood's Avatar

    1a Smartphones were not made for games, YouTube or media consumption.
    1b The 1st gen iPhone made that distinction, not the BlackBerrys, Treos or iPAQs that ruled the roost.

    2 Android and iPhone did NOT invent the smartphone, they just re-defined them for use by the general public.

    3 If you've never seen Excel or Word out in the wild is because the people who use those apps are generally in an indoor setting.

    4 There's a reason that Office is one of the top selling points for WP.

    5 There's a reason BB is touting "Work Wide" for its Passport.

    6 There's a reason that Office & Outlook on iOS and Android is being discussed so much in the media and

    7 whined about incessantly here on WPC.

    8 Smartphones are for business, anything else is a byproduct of the technology used.



    1a they're pretty good at games, and media consumption, in 2015
    1b those pocket pc's were caught off guard by a new idea: sell to EVERYONE including the ceo, instead of JUST the ceo

    2 yep, never denied that one. the general public seems to like them in their current form. hundreds of millions of them a year.

    3 in college settings, libraries, offices, businesses, social gatherings, i've never seen office used on a phone. it's always a tablet.

    4 but, office is free on iphone and android now, how is that a selling point for WP ?

    5 they'll yell "fuzzy bananas!!!" if it sells a phone.

    6 its a talking point because microsoft finally accepted that there was a huge untapped potential market (or at least mindshare of market) in iphone and android. they aren't selling office, they're giving it away for mindshare.

    7 there's a LOT of whining on wpc. usually its about carriers, flagships, or microsoft not moving fast enough, but not much about office.

    8 that was the case in 1995, but in 2015, it's all about the apps baby. millions and millions of sales a day. billions of youtube plays. and in between games or text messages, there is a business oriented phone call. office ? sorry, that's on the desktop.
    03-09-2015 03:39 PM
  14. fatclue_98's Avatar
    ^^We'll just agree to disagree. I've been using smartphones for the better part of ten or eleven years and my needs are the same now as they were then. They've just upped the ante and made them more affordable and more functional and more appealing to the masses. But at the end of the day, smartphones are still for productivity.

    Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
    rhapdog likes this.
    03-09-2015 04:04 PM
  15. rhapdog's Avatar
    3 in college settings, libraries, offices, businesses, social gatherings, i've never seen office used on a phone. it's always a tablet.
    In offices, on planes, at the airport, in Taxis, seen office used a lot. And not by the people using the FREE office on iPhone and Android. Just because you and the people you hang out with don't do something, stop assuming no one does. Millions upon millions of people do, and Microsoft has the sales to prove it. I have to tell you again that you don't speak for everyone.

    4 but, office is free on iphone and android now, how is that a selling point for WP ?
    Yeah, a BASIC version is free. You want the advanced features and there is a subscription price you have to pay. Yeah, Microsoft is actually selling a LOT of those. Windows 10 for phones will get the full Office 365 for mobile for free without having to pay the subscription price like you have to on iPhone and Android. THAT is the selling point for WP.

    7 there's a LOT of whining on wpc. usually its about carriers, flagships, or microsoft not moving fast enough, but not much about office.
    You haven't read everywhere, then. Again, not speaking for everyone.

    8 that was the case in 1995, but in 2015, it's all about the apps baby. millions and millions of sales a day. billions of youtube plays. and in between games or text messages, there is a business oriented phone call. office ? sorry, that's on the desktop.
    Sorry, wrong. Office isn't for only the desktop. Microsoft is selling a lot of subscriptions to the full Office 365 for iPhone and Android. A large part of the millions and millions of sales a day on those apps are the in app purchases to get full features of Office on those iPhones and Androids. Yeah, Microsoft is raking it in on that. Why do you think they can afford to be patient with Windows Phones? Because they are primarily a service company. Office is a monthly service they sell as an app with a monthly subscription plan for advanced features for iPhone and Android.

    ^^We'll just agree to disagree. I've been using smartphones for the better part of ten or eleven years and my needs are the same now as they were then. They've just upped the ante and made them more affordable and more functional and more appealing to the masses. But at the end of the day, smartphones are still for productivity.
    Thanks. I'm going to have to make that same agreement.

    Sure am loving using my smartphone. As far as apps I use every single day, Excel is one I can't live without. Sure, I play a few games, and I have watched a few videos, but when it comes right down to it, if I had to choose between a smartphone that was better at games or better at Microsoft Office, I'd have to choose the Microsoft Office one, because I can live without fun and games on a phone, but I have to have access to Office. I know a lot of people that feel the same way. Very few of those people that I know who use office rarely have time to watch a video or play a game. Same with me. It's rare that I get the opportunity. I agree, fatclue. At the end of the day, smartphones are still for productivity.
    03-09-2015 07:53 PM
  16. ohgood's Avatar
    In offices, on planes, at the airport, in Taxis, seen office used a lot. And not by the people using the FREE office on iPhone and Android. Just because you and the people you hang out with don't do something, stop assuming no one does. Millions upon millions of people do, and Microsoft has the sales to prove it. I have to tell you again that you don't speak for everyone.


    Yeah, a BASIC version is free. You want the advanced features and there is a subscription price you have to pay. Yeah, Microsoft is actually selling a LOT of those. Windows 10 for phones will get the full Office 365 for mobile for free without having to pay the subscription price like you have to on iPhone and Android. THAT is the selling point for WP.


    You haven't read everywhere, then. Again, not speaking for everyone.


    Sorry, wrong. Office isn't for only the desktop. Microsoft is selling a lot of subscriptions to the full Office 365 for iPhone and Android. A large part of the millions and millions of sales a day on those apps are the in app purchases to get full features of Office on those iPhones and Androids. Yeah, Microsoft is raking it in on that. Why do you think they can afford to be patient with Windows Phones? Because they are primarily a service company. Office is a monthly service they sell as an app with a monthly subscription plan for advanced features for iPhone and Android.



    Thanks. I'm going to have to make that same agreement.

    Sure am loving using my smartphone. As far as apps I use every single day, Excel is one I can't live without. Sure, I play a few games, and I have watched a few videos, but when it comes right down to it, if I had to choose between a smartphone that was better at games or better at Microsoft Office, I'd have to choose the Microsoft Office one, because I can live without fun and games on a phone, but I have to have access to Office. I know a lot of people that feel the same way. Very few of those people that I know who use office rarely have time to watch a video or play a game. Same with me. It's rare that I get the opportunity. I agree, fatclue. At the end of the day, smartphones are still for productivity.
    you've interested me now. the sales for the smartphone version ofoffice you mentioned, where did you find this information? I'd like to read about it.

    the links you provide may support your statement about millions of people buying it everyday, since the taxis and plane rides you personally take will only support about 100 or 200 sightings a year. I've never seen a person use office on a phone, in any setting.
    03-10-2015 04:30 AM
  17. edwinsberry's Avatar
    As has been mentioned, some known partnering is going on between Samsung, and some apparently google and android talk. IMHO this is a matter of who takes advantage of what is left of Blackberry first and whether windows even wants to fool with it. Personally, someone should and whoever does gets a ring. By that I mean what is left and valuable from BB which is significant. Besides QNX, BBM, a host of BB software tools and probably most importantly perceived security and enterprise business. According to most BB will be close to even this year. As mentioned, Fairfax has rebuffed Samsung but that would have to be about money. Yes, BB is becoming a support company clearly. The question for any suitors is whether they want them in house or to deal with them as a supplier of some sort.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    03-10-2015 07:31 AM
  18. fatclue_98's Avatar
    With a 41.9% of the entire market, Apple remains the leader in terms of smartphone sales in the US, according to data compiled by comScore for the 3-month period ending January 2015.

    comScore also details the most used apps by smartphone users stateside aged 18+. At the top, with a decisive lead, is Facebook (69.7%), followed by YouTube (54.5%), Google Play (51.8%), Google Search (51.5%), and Facebook Messenger (47.4%). Other popular apps among Americans include Instagram, Twitter, and Pinterest.

    Those stats are very telling. It tells you why Windows Phone and BlackBerry are a distant 3rd and 4th, respectively. Microsoft touts Office and OneDrive while BlackBerry touts security and productivity. Not sexy, but it's what the pros want.
    920Walker likes this.
    03-10-2015 10:43 AM
  19. ohgood's Avatar
    With a 41.9% of the entire market, Apple remains the leader in terms of smartphone sales in the US, according to data compiled by comScore for the 3-month period ending January 2015.

    comScore also details the most used apps by smartphone users stateside aged 18+. At the top, with a decisive lead, is Facebook (69.7%), followed by YouTube (54.5%), Google Play (51.8%), Google Search (51.5%), and Facebook Messenger (47.4%). Other popular apps among Americans include Instagram, Twitter, and Pinterest.

    Those stats are very telling. It tells you why Windows Phone and BlackBerry are a distant 3rd and 4th, respectively. Microsoft touts Office and OneDrive while BlackBerry touts security and productivity. Not sexy, but it's what the pros want.


    Good info, thanks for pointing to comscore. I looked around briefly and saw
    comScore Reports January 2014 U.S. Smartphone Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc

    and given rhapdog's response earlier, i was expecting to see Microsoft, Office, or Office365 in the top 15 list there. The only mention was of total marketshare, which is still less than 4%. Now, this is only the US I believe, but last time I read info on China, it had dropped significantly there.

    Its more support for my argument: Focus on SELLING SOFTWARE to the iphone/android users, and get out of the mobile hardware (and support) game.


    A quick (and fairly reliable) source for popularity checks of apps on the Google Play Store shows that Microsoft's own Office suite has about 27 million installs. That was surprising, and supports rhapdogs view that it's widely used, and used on mobiles, a LOT.

    But then I scrolled down and looked at similar applications. Polaris Office has 18 MILLION MORE installs than Microsoft's suite, and a barely higher rating of 4.2 vs Office 365's 4 stars.


    I guess I'll have to agrree with him that, yes, people really do use office suites on their phones/tablets. It appears microsoft's offering isn't the leader, but it is being installed and used. I'll have to keep my eyes open more often and watch for the splash screen to see if it's polaris or microsoft's version of office being loaded.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    03-14-2015 06:53 AM
  20. fatclue_98's Avatar
    But then I scrolled down and looked at similar applications. Polaris Office has 18 MILLION MORE installs than Microsoft's suite, and a barely higher rating of 4.2 vs Office 365's 4 stars.
    Considering Polaris has been around for what seems like forever, it looks like Office is closing the gap quickly. A lot of early Android users had nothing but Polaris and even came pre-installed on many devices so those users were familiar with it. Let's see a year from now where the leaderboard stands.
    tgp and 920Walker like this.
    03-14-2015 11:52 AM
  21. ohgood's Avatar
    Considering Polaris has been around for what seems like forever, it looks like Office is closing the gap quickly. A lot of early Android users had nothing but 1 Polaris and even came pre-installed on many devices so those users were familiar with it.
    2 Let's see a year from now where the leaderboard stands.

    1 yes, about preinstalls. i believe microsoft is preinstalling office on ALL their mobile devices now , and also counting it as an 'install' similarly ?


    2 the microsoft mantra 'wait six months' is starting to unintentionally creep into people's forum posts... i wonder if it's creeping into their acceptance levels also ?
    03-15-2015 07:34 AM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    1 yes, about preinstalls. i believe microsoft is preinstalling office on ALL their mobile devices now , and also counting it as an 'install' similarly ?


    2 the microsoft mantra 'wait six months' is starting to unintentionally creep into people's forum posts... i wonder if it's creeping into their acceptance levels also ?


    I believe only Samsung devices are getting the Office preinstalls and that's probably due to the bread Sammy owes them. I haven't read about any other Androids getting any MS services preinstalled.

    I've never seen any pressers from Microsoft telling users to wait "another six months". Please feel free to provide a link otherwise put a lid on it.
    03-15-2015 12:29 PM
  23. ohgood's Avatar

    1 I believe only Samsung devices are getting the Office preinstalls and that's probably due to the bread Sammy owes them.

    2 I haven't read about any other Androids getting any MS services preinstalled.

    3 I've never seen any pressers from Microsoft telling users to wait "another six months". Please feel free to provide a link otherwise put a lid on it.
    1 speculation ? i haven't read it anywhere, maybe you have ?

    2 polaris is the only preinstall office suite i know of on android. this was actually supporting the 'preinstalls don't really count' point someone made earlier. i don't consider preinstalls to qualify, even though the google playstore and microsoft's certainly do. it would be a better measurement if it was a PREFERED install, or a better description an active install by people seeking and using office suites. did i make that clear ? i'm not really sure if that makes sense now that i've read it ?

    3 see wpcentrals headlines, and plenty of users' posts about 'wait and see', 'six more months', etc:
    Wait for it...something major is coming to Windows Phone! | Windows Central
    This is why Microsoft keeps 'starting over' with Windows Phone | Windows Central

    wpcentral took the lid off, not me.
    03-16-2015 05:53 PM
  24. fatclue_98's Avatar
    1 speculation ? i haven't read it anywhere, maybe you have ?

    2 polaris is the only preinstall office suite i know of on android. this was actually supporting the 'preinstalls don't really count' point someone made earlier. i don't consider preinstalls to qualify, even though the google playstore and microsoft's certainly do. it would be a better measurement if it was a PREFERED install, or a better description an active install by people seeking and using office suites. did i make that clear ? i'm not really sure if that makes sense now that i've read it ?

    3 see wpcentrals headlines, and plenty of users' posts about 'wait and see', 'six more months', etc:
    Wait for it...something major is coming to Windows Phone! | Windows Central
    This is why Microsoft keeps 'starting over' with Windows Phone | Windows Central

    wpcentral took the lid off, not me.
    1. Not speculation, probably just read more than you.

    Samsung bundles Microsoft apps on its new Galaxy S6 | The Verge

    2. What does it matter if it's preferred or not? Polaris was widely bundled particularly on Verizon devices.

    3. I was referring to Microsoft pressers. I don't recognize this, or any other tech site, as being official Microsoft spokespersons.
    03-16-2015 06:40 PM
  25. ohgood's Avatar
    1. Not speculation, probably just read more than you.

    Samsung bundles Microsoft apps on its new Galaxy S6 | The Verge

    2. What does it matter if it's preferred or not? Polaris was widely bundled particularly on Verizon devices.

    3. I was referring to Microsoft pressers. I don't recognize this, or any other tech site, as being official Microsoft spokespersons.

    i replied point for point yesterday, but the GOOD comment was deleted. now i'll do it again. this is a discussion, and nothing more. please see it as such.


    1 this link is from a third party, not microsoft. you specifically asked for microsoft release information, and reiterate the request in #3. the verge is not a credible source, per your own criteria.

    2 this is a good question, and i'll try to illustrate why it matters now:

    preinstalled = no user input, no user searched out, installed, or necessarily used that office suite. i've seen quite a few phones and tablets that have had an office suite installed on them, and when i pressed the icon to see what it was like, was met with the initial splash and setup screens.

    user installed = user searched out and installed an office suite themselves. they are much more likely to USE IT on a daily basis, if they were actively looking for a solution, and installed it instead of just having it on their phones.

    these two differences are what are not defined in the overall view of from the google and microsoft stores. the better metric (arguably) is the user ratings, and HOW MANY users rated the application.

    for instance:
    polaris office = 45 million installs vs microsoft office = only 27 million installs

    this is a poor measuring stick ^^^^ because preinstalls don't reflect user desires.


    a much better metric is using user RATINGs in the online app stores:

    polaris office = 4.2 stars, from 190,000 users vs microsoft office = 4 stars from almost 350,000 users.


    THESE users are actually using, and actively reporting their opinion of hte applications usability. these users are the ones that will effect future releases with requests for features, bug reports, and usage statistics. the pre-install group, i would speculate, will not likely be represented in these groups.


    3 ok, but wpcentral likes to post news, and the opinions here matter. wpcentral's own headlines SHOULD be a good source for information, i consider them to be so.
    03-18-2015 08:39 AM
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