09-28-2015 07:24 AM
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  1. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Exactly my feeling dude. So much so, I'm entertaining the idea of actually buying an iPhone but at this point I can't get past what I would give up in this platform. But this community is a head scratch and those charged to protect it... let me stop right there.
    Or find a 12 step program for Windows Central addicts.

    Just use the ignore option for the trolls if you don't find them as comical as I do.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    09-12-2015 11:34 AM
  2. Dietrich Cleijne's Avatar
    ** I never post replies like this... but this one felt like it needed to happen.
    Well, you should do that more often, i don't share your scares, but your arguments ar valid.
    09-12-2015 01:05 PM
  3. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    My question is; why are you here?
    I'm here because I'm a massive fan of WP8.1. As soon as I tried it I thought it made Android and iOS look like clunky old carry-overs from the last century.

    I was excited to try the W10M technical previews because I was looking to an even more polished version of WP8.1. There was also one very important feature I wanted that Windows phones can't do (but Android and iOS can).

    I couldn't believe what I saw: an Android look-alike but with live tiles instead of icons and widgets. All the rest is almost indistinguishable from Android. I vented my frustration and disappointment. A moderator explained it's a deliberate choice by Microsoft to make it easier to port iOS and Android apps over to W10M. Furthermore, it didn't (and won't) have that feature I wanted.

    I unrolled my Lumia 1520 back to WP8.1, and it felt wonderful again, except for that missing feature. So now I'm looking on eBay for a good secondhand Samsung Note 4. It's just so sad, but it's goodbye to WP / W10M for me.

    That's what I've been up to on this forum.
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    09-12-2015 02:02 PM
  4. slivy58's Avatar
    Why I'm here?
    I had the perfect combo with SP1&2, W8.1, and L925/930.
    I had office on my phones, OneNote and everything was in sync via Skydrive/OneDrive.
    The touch/pen experience on the SP was perfect w fullscreen metro IE etc.

    The package was unique for Microsoft. It was not possible to get this on any other ecosystem. Any invested money (as a customer) was well spent money.

    Now, W10 has ruined the touch experience of the SP, OneDrive is just a shadow of what it was, W10M will make the phones bleach Android copies and the Office package is better on ios and Android. I.e, I feel I did chose the wrong system. MS seems to give up what they accomplished with W8.1, SP and WP.

    The best product mix today seems to be a boring iPhone (fastest, most polished, the best office and less "will come in the future" BS) a SP with the mediocre W10 or "old W8.1" OR if you can live with it, iPad pro and an iPhone.

    Add to that that WP/W10M is so extremely slow adding features and that the new stuff (Cortana etc) is not even available but Siri is (Sweden). And no new interesting hardware has been released for ages.

    I feel betrayed by Microsoft/Nadella.
    I feel your frustrations yet we are met with "leave if you don't like it" or along those lines as the solution, as if it was our fault, I guess because we were silly enough to invest in them it is LOL.

    Many seem to be irritated that some of us dis MS for messing things up, people fail to realize "where they are going" and "where they are at" are two different things, I want a platform that is going to sustain itself over time but with these reboots it is tough to see, not sure how you couldn't be sceptical because, once again we are starting at the bottom. Last I looked if something is going to succeed in the techno world you need a good fan/user base that entices investors and developers, in other words, something people rush through the door to get and that is making a splash in the marketplace, not just a dull roar... Some say it won't need it but I beg to differ.

    As it stands now I see no way that W10M/WP will make a big presence for some time to come, it has to go through the trials and tribulations to "prove" itself first and until it is deemed solid, that could be a while. Was that what most of us were expecting or told when we jumped in a few years back, how many feel "riding it out" will result in that pot of gold in the end?

    Here's my arsenal which clearly shows I'm invested in the Windows ecosystem and why I am here:

    Five Desktops:
    2 - Win10 Pro
    1 -Win10 Home/Linux x2 (triple boot)
    1 –Win7 Home
    1 - Linux x3 (triple boot)

    Seven Laptops:
    1 – Win10 Pro
    1 – Win10 Home
    1 – Linux
    1 – Win XP
    1 – Win 2000
    1 – Win 98
    1 – MacBook Pro w/OS X Yosemite

    Five Tablets:
    2 – iPads (ver 1&4)
    2 – Android (4.4)
    1 – Win10 Home

    Eight Phones:
    3 – WPs w/Win 8.1
    2 – Win Mobile 6+
    1 – iPhone
    1 – Android
    1- BB
    Tien-Lin Chang and neo158 like this.
    09-12-2015 02:33 PM
  5. badcat's Avatar
    Otherwise you create a MS based distortion field.
    You can't create a MS based "reality distortion field". Apple created the "reality distortion field" years ago and holds the patent and would most certainly sue.
    09-13-2015 09:36 AM
  6. rayf888's Avatar
    People who oppose W10M are mainly those enthurists coming from WP7/8.....

    And people who oppose WP are usually those iOS/Android users.....

    Suggest you spiltting it into different posts... :D
    09-13-2015 07:33 PM
  7. Francis Amar Singh's Avatar
    The os may not be dead but without new exciting devices what the hell an OS will do... I was a hard core windows phone now moved to android...

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    09-13-2015 08:58 PM
  8. Muralidhar Parimi's Avatar
    Excellent Questions those who hate our OS.

    Thanks for writing this ...
    09-14-2015 05:38 AM
  9. Muralidhar Parimi's Avatar
    Don't use a word called 'Hard Core' fan... Because if your really a fan you wont switch here and there.!
    09-14-2015 05:39 AM
  10. AmanBhullar's Avatar
    Well windows phone is not doing good so things need to change in a big way, windows phone by it self will never be able to grow and people need to realize that its just a part of much bigger picture. So criticizing without understand or caring about bigger picture is not constructive. Universal apps running on a core windows 10 platform with adaptive UI are a very compelling story to bridge the app gap, if you don't like the new UI then either propose a better way and let users vote on it in usersvoice forms or move on and one always has choice not to upgrade. The performance will be improved because that's how software development is and that's what happened when windows 10 was released.
    neo158 likes this.
    09-14-2015 08:42 PM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    Windows Phone has always been super minimalistic - mainly text on a solid background with images here and there all wrapped up in an efficient pivot. Perhaps they simply aren't used to working with a more "complex" UI on handsets. I'm not sure what it is, but something is very wrong.
    I use Android and iOS extensively, and I used to use WP8.1 extensively. I still use WP8.1/W10M some, but WP is no longer my primary device.

    Being quite familiar with all three OS's, here's my take concerning the minimalistic UI: it was great, but it was too simple as features were added. WP was originally minimalistic in feature & capabilities. As features were added, the UI could not remain simple. As a result, the UI designed for simplicity became quite complicated to use. I mean, it looked great, but I found that when I started using it, it soon became apparent that it was convoluted (Settings menu anyone?).

    I found myself doing a lot of swiping and tapping compared to performing similar tasks on iOS and Android. WP had too many features for a UI designed to be simple. It reminded me of a quote I read somewhere (I cannot find it at the moment, but this is the gist of it), "From over simplicity comes great complexity."

    While icon filled screens are not as pretty as tiles, I believe that there is a reason Microsoft has used icons in Windows since Windows 2.0, released in 1987, and has returned Windows to primarily that after trying to push tiles in Windows 8/8.1. It would probably be the same reason that iOS and Android use icons. Icons are what seem to work in our current paradigm. Microsoft appears to have no plans to abandon icons in Windows anytime soon.

    Maybe the rejection of tiles by consumers in Windows 8/8.1 and on WP is because we do not want to change. We as humans tend to feel most comfortable following tradition. OTOH, we are also very adaptable if something better comes along. I believe that if Live Tiles actually worked better, they would have been embraced by consumers.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-14-2015 10:44 PM
  12. NatKingColeslaw's Avatar
    Live tiles are a very interesting idea. It provides more information than a simple number counter (or nothing at all) on the icon. If the idea is the idea to provide enough information to prevent having to go into the app though, then I'm not sure live tiles really work. ON OCCASION I will have enough information from a live tile that it saves me from having to go into the app to "work". Often though I still need to go into the app because of not enough information. The perfect example is the calendar. Perhaps it's my specific usage, but I often need to glance at how many workers I have off on a given day, which could be 10 different calendar events. Sad to say, my scrollable Android widget handles this wonderfully. I would love for 10 to have this type of functionality.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    09-15-2015 07:15 PM
  13. chuckdaly's Avatar
    You are correct that Live Tiles don't offer as much information as some of Android's Widgets. Live Tiles do strike a great balance, of keeping the home screen neat and organised, Offering varied amounts of info based on the size of the tile, and the ability for the user to place more tiles on the screen than one can with widgets.
    09-24-2015 09:52 AM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    You are correct that Live Tiles don't offer as much information as some of Android's Widgets. Live Tiles do strike a great balance, of keeping the home screen neat and organised, Offering varied amounts of info based on the size of the tile, and the ability for the user to place more tiles on the screen than one can with widgets.
    Live Tiles are a good concept that is poorly executed. They border on useless the way they are. Information seemingly displays at random, which means that it may or may not be useful. And the fact that if the app does need to be opened, the Live Tile is no more than an icon. The app should be opened to whatever is showing on the tile at the moment of tapping. They should also be actionable, which in a lot of cases would eliminate the need to open the app.

    Basically, Live Tiles should be turned into widgets. Android's weakness in this area is that not all apps have widgets,and that the widgets are somewhat irregular in appearance.
    Laura Knotek and a5cent like this.
    09-24-2015 12:24 PM
  15. chezm's Avatar
    Why is it such a bad thing for people to discuss what they dislike about the Platform, whether they own a phone with the OS or not? Android forum is full of negative feedback about the OS and its taken in strides, then you come to the Windows Forum and i see a lot of "why is everyone picking on us??". Listen, people would like things to evolve in different ways...some like where MS is going with WP10, others dont. I was a big fan of WP7/8, adored the platform...moved away when 8.1 came and all the videos i see of WM10 it hasnt changed a lot (outside prospective).

    Much like others i invested a lot of $$$ in Microsoft products (owned a Samsung Focus for WP7, Lumia 920/1020...own a SP2) and ya thats my fault.

    I dont come here to complain, especially since I moved to Android for my mobile and people on this forum are super defensive (even some of the writers for the site get their panties in a twist over peoples comments about WP, its pretty hilarious). But this topic, come on...get over it. There are "trolls", there are fans of mobile devices (like myself) and there are owners...the forum is for discussion, that includes negative and positive. Every platform has its problems, Microsoft is sometimes a bigger target because its MS...if you havent learned this yet welcome to the last 20 years.
    09-24-2015 01:15 PM
  16. Sam_93's Avatar
    I have bought a windows phone. I am a customer . I want my money's worth. This is a democratic and free website (may be ). So whats the problem in criticizing . The bad is bad wrong is wrong . We have to admit windows is miles behind android if not light years. I paid my money so I have every right to criticize. How many more excuses does MS want ? And how many more chances we can give them ? We love Ms we are tolerating . Why would others ? They didn't saw their money's worth in MS they criticized they left . MS had enough chances according to me . That beta update beta update beta update blah is being thrown every time anybody says anything negative about W10 . This is the final lap . After few days WinMO10 should be RTM or whatever. Still if a build needs its beta status to hide its negatives its a grave problem. So what will we next say ? Ours is TH1 lets wait for Threshold 2 ? Like this TH n ? The buck stops here.
    09-24-2015 01:19 PM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    Live Tiles are a good concept that is poorly executed. They border on useless the way they are. Information seemingly displays at random, which means that it may or may not be useful. And the fact that if the app does need to be opened, the Live Tile is no more than an icon. The app should be opened to whatever is showing on the tile at the moment of tapping. They should also be actionable, which in a lot of cases would eliminate the need to open the app.

    Basically, Live Tiles should be turned into widgets. Android's weakness in this area is that not all apps have widgets,and that the widgets are somewhat irregular in appearance.
    I agree that tiles should be actionable, as long as:

    1. tiles don't go beyond presenting information
    2. remain in the domain of the OS, i.e. while apps can periodically update their content (as they already do), interactions with the live tile must be managed entirely by the OS without requiring each live tile's app to be resident in memory.

    I have a few ideas on how the start screen could be made a lot more powerful in this regard, while giving the user more control over what each tile displays and when, but I'm not sure it still matters. If it turns out that most apps are sourced from iOS or Android, I'm not sure many of them would end up supporting any WM specific features, particularly if they are of the "more involved" type like my suggestions would be. It's hard to predict the future, but I suspect we'll be lucky if apps ported from Android or iOS occasionally support a live tile as they exist now. Most will probably just be normal icons.
    Sam_93, tgp and chuckdaly like this.
    09-24-2015 01:24 PM
  18. Paul1266's Avatar
    I think we should change the name of this forum to Whiner's Central. Sure its fine to criticise and voice frustration at times but it seems some people on here revel in their sense of entitlement and histrionic disappointment. Bottom line is if you don't like something then move on. The app gap is real for some and irrelevant for others (like me). Support for most Android hand sets seems to last about 18 months these days if you are lucky enough to own a flagship. Every new iteration has been buggy when released and despite being light years ahead I find that OS sloppy and lacking unifying characteristics (yes I own an Android phone...spends its life in my drawer mainly). At least Apple support their devices for a few years and everything is tied together (have a 5c which does actually get some use just not as much as my 640). The cheapest phone I own is also my favourite. Microsoft have at least one happy punter here. I realise I am probably slightly mad because I actually love the look of the 950 and will be snapping one up when it hits the streets.
    VIVA WINDOWS PHONE!!!!!
    Sam_93 likes this.
    09-24-2015 01:37 PM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    I think we should change the name of this forum to Whiner's Central. Sure its fine to criticise and voice frustration at times but it seems some people on here revel in their sense of entitlement and histrionic disappointment. Bottom line is if you don't like something then move on.
    If I wanted to, I think I'd be logically justified in calling you a whiner for complaining about whining. I just don't think that is helpful. ;-)

    [NOTE]
    Those that dislike W10M have a right to express that here. Particularly long time members who really liked WP, and just wanted W10M to be a much improved version of its predecessor while remaining true to its original principles. W10M really isn't that though. Whether we are able to acknowledge those differences or not, whether we care about them or not, they do exist, and a large number of people aren't enthusiastic about them. What we all should be able to acknowledge is that this group of "dissenters" is too large to simply dismiss as being crazy, and that there is nothing wrong with them expressing that disappointment. They aren't whiners! They aren't necessarily people who have issues with change! They shouldn't be asked to leave! Besides being either flat-out wrong or completely unhelpful, such accusations will typically force people into constantly having to defend their views over and over again. It's ironic that those who most want to hear less of it, are most likely to force people into repeated explanations. It's counterproductive. It's a vicious circle nobody likes yet many here keep feeding into.

    On the flip side, those that like W10M also have a right to express their enthusiasm without being called mindless fanboys / MS whores. Their views are just as valid. If they like it, they like it. End of story.

    It's fine to have a negative view of W10M. That's not the problem. Many of the people being asked to leave have been here for a long time and would prefer to remain here, which is their right. It's the bickering (fanboy! whiner! just leave!) that is most harmful to the community and really needs to stop.
    [/NOTE]
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-24-2015 at 04:05 PM. Reason: spelling
    09-24-2015 03:51 PM
  20. Paul1266's Avatar
    If I wanted to, I think I'd be logically justified in calling you a whiner for complaining about whining. I just don't think that is helpful. ;-)

    [NOTE]
    Those that dislike W10M have a right to express that here. Particularly long time members who really liked WP, and just wanted W10M to be a much improved version of its predecessor while remaining true to its original principles. W10M really isn't that though. Whether we are able to acknowledge those differences or not, whether we care about them or not, they do exist, and a large number of people aren't enthusiastic about them. What we all should be able to acknowledge is that this group of "dissenters" is too large to simply dismiss as being crazy, and that there is nothing wrong with them expressing that disappointment. They aren't whiners! They aren't necessarily people who have issues with change! They shouldn't be asked to leave! Besides being either flat-out wrong or completely unhelpful, such accusations will typically force people into constantly having to defend their views over and over again. It's ironic that those who most want to hear less of it, are most likely to force people into repeated explanations. It's counterproductive. It's a vicious circle nobody likes yet many here keep feeding into.

    On the flip side, those that like W10M also have a right to express their enthusiasm without being called mindless fanboys / MS whores. Their views are just as valid. If they like it, they like it. End of story.

    It's fine to have a negative view of W10M. That's not the problem. Many of the people being asked to leave have been here for a long time and would prefer to remain here, which is their right. It's the bickering (fanboy! whiner! just leave!) that is most harmful to the community and really needs to stop.
    [/NOTE]
    How on earth did you construe my last post as a complaint? If it was you may have had a point. Just saying if peeps are unhappy with this platform there is an easy solution which doesn't involve endless whinging and baiting. That said, the grumbly user is not just restricted to this forum but the sheer number of negative posts round here lately is getting beyond a joke.
    09-24-2015 04:24 PM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ I don't know? Suggesting the site should be renamed to whiners central sounds like a complaint to me.

    Either way, don't take it too personally. I could have attached that notice to many other posts here too, and it was directed at everyone here on WCentral, not just you. So sorry if that came across some other way. Your post was just unlucky to be the most recent.

    Also remember that we can also take personal responsibility for the threads we click on and read. Most thread titles are pretty clear about what to expect, and we're always free to ignore any of them.
    09-24-2015 04:34 PM
  22. Paul1266's Avatar
    Believe me, I am not taking it personally. Mine was a sarcastic suggestion based on observations. Been lurking about these parts for a while now and as pointed out by Rubino recently, its seldom been as negative as it is now round here. And at the point of repeating myself, if a punters experience of this platform is not good then the simplest solution would be to skip over to the sunny uplands of android central and live happily ever after...or at least until their new handset fails to get the next version of android ;) some of the users round here just sound so miserable it beggars belief that they persist with torturing themselves by continuing to use the instrument of their misery...and is even more unbelievable that they waste their energy submitting post after post bemoaning the woeful state of affairs. Get a Samsung or an iPhone (or even a Blackberry) and live happily ever after. It really couldn't be simpler. The answer I suspect is some people just enjoy a good whine.
    09-24-2015 05:04 PM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    And at the point of repeating myself, if a punters experience of this platform is not good then the simplest solution would be to skip over to the sunny uplands of android central and live happily ever after...
    No. Just because somebody doesn't like W10M doesn't mean they're destined to become a fan of Android, iOS, or any other mobile OS for that matter. Most would prefer W10M to be everything they hoped it would be. It's not your place, or anyone else's, to tell others what they should like. What you believe to be a simple solution, likely because you're unable to put yourself in their position, will for most just be a forced choice for the "lesser evil". Most would hope to have at least one option they enjoy and can feel enthusiastic about.

    It's not a bad thing to be passionate.

    The answer I suspect is some people just enjoy a good whine.
    I'm sure you've encountered at least a few things in life you've complained about. You'll likely say you were just trying to get people to focus their attention on something that needs fixing. Could I not just as easily have labeled you a whiner then? Of course I could have, and with that I would also have expressed how petty I think you are and that you aren't to be taken seriously!

    Such accusations (together with all the others mentioned in my note, which go both ways) are the real problems in these forums.
    09-24-2015 05:47 PM
  24. Paul1266's Avatar
    No. Just because somebody doesn't like W10M doesn't mean they're destined to become a fan of Android, iOS, or any other mobile OS for that matter. Most would prefer W10M to be everything they hoped it would be. It's not your place, or anyone else's, to tell others what they should like. What you believe to be a simple solution, likely because you're unable to put yourself in their position, will for most just be a forced choice for the "lesser evil". Most would hope to have at least one option they enjoy and can feel enthusiastic about.

    It's not a bad thing to be passionate.


    I'm sure you've encountered at least a few things in life you've complained about. You'll likely say you were just trying to get people to focus their attention on something that needs fixing. Could I not just as easily have labeled you a whiner then? Of course I could have, and with that I would also have expressed how petty I think you are and that you aren't to be taken seriously!

    Such accusations (together with all the others mentioned in my note, which go both ways) are the real problems in these forums.
    Ha ha....who's the one taking it personally now. My comments have been about the general prevalence of miserabilism exhibited by some here. Nothing wrong with complaining at all. I do it all the time. Thing is, if I don't see the service improve i move on. Here some folk are just not supportive in a platform they profess to like. There is constructive criticism, then there is the recreational moaning. The 'if this doesnt change' I'm outta here brigade (not saying you are one o those by the way). At this stage it is highly unlikely WM10 is gonna change dramatically so if a user hates it now chances are they will hate the final product.
    Last edited by Paul1266; 09-25-2015 at 01:38 AM.
    09-25-2015 01:04 AM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    At this stage it is highly unlikely WM10 is gonna change dramatically so if a user hates it now chances are they will hate the final product.
    There are many people who claim that there are no dramatic differences between WP8.1 and W10M's UI. It still feels distinctly like a Windows Phone to them, and they think the notion of W10M being an Android clone to be greatly exaggerated. These people tend to think that most UI complaints are just a big stink over minor details. I don't share those views, except the part about the stink being over minor details.

    The thing is, the difference between a usable UI and a truly great and enjoyable UI is never more than a handful of minor details. It's just that some people care deeply about all those fine details, because to them they represent a large part of what makes a computing system enjoyable, while for others being functional is all that is required.

    Because UI's are always about the fine details, changing some of those details could already represent a lot of improvement. For many people there don't need to be incredibly dramatic changes to make W10M enjoyable again. Such changes are always a realistic possibility.
    libra89 likes this.
    09-25-2015 05:13 AM
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