02-06-2016 06:37 PM
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  1. Greg Wenzler's Avatar
    I beg to differ, the a good number (say 35% or more) don't even know that there is something called windows 10 mobile. And again for those that do know are primarily with the second phase of devices like 520, 1020, etc
    So we leave them on a version that has been abandoned both in terms of the OS and the apps.

    The difference is the same.
    neo158 and Tien-Lin Chang like this.
    01-23-2016 05:35 AM
  2. Keith White Jr's Avatar
    Well, Cricket is AT&T. AT&T owns them, and makes all the decisions with regards to what Cricket carries. It is kinda cool walking in their stores and at least seeing WP stuff. I put three family members (non-techies) on 635s there, and all are happy.

    I, however, am not happy. I bought a 640 on the day that Cricket released it (last April). Nice phone, pretty blue shell. An interesting piece of promotional material next to the display from Microsoft. Cool! Says my 640 gets a free upgrade to Windows 10, when available*. I look at the asterisk and it says *late summer 2015 release. I'm a happy camper.

    9 1/2 months later, no signs of W10M in sight. When Microsoft announced in December that it would not come until 2016 first qtr, I bailed and went to Android. That phone spent the equivalent of half it's life waiting for an upgrade that didn't come.

    THIS IS WHY W10M HAS TO BE RELEASED TO OLDER PHONES THAT HAVE THE HARDWARE TO HANDLE IT. Those of us that post here are the tiny, tiny minority. The bulk of WP users will say..."where is my shiny new operating system I was promised? NEVER AGAIN!" Microsoft will never, ever have a chance to sell those people another phone. They spent a lot of time pushing the low end stuff out the last two years, they cannot abandon those users they just recently brought into the fold.

    It's all a shame, cause WP had unlimited potential, and Microsoft continues to smack itself in the forehead and fritter it all away.
    I know AT&T owns and runs Cricket, that's why I went to Cricket in the first place lol. But you will see a lot more Windows Phone promotional material and display units in a Cricket store than you ever will in an AT&T (or any other cell phone carrier) store was my point.

    So you bailed on Windows as a phone because WM10 didn't come in December as originally planned by Microsoft? Why not just download the insider preview? I have it on my 640 and it runs wonderfully on that phone.
    01-23-2016 08:59 AM
  3. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    So we leave them on a version that has been abandoned both in terms of the OS and the apps.

    The difference is the same.
    I agree. Leaving the majority of the user base on a version of the OS----8.1----- that won't have developer app support going forward is not a good strategy. Android and Apple could always afford to leave some users behind, as they'll always spring for the shinier new version, on a new whiz bang device.
    Windows phones, with their <3% global share, doesn't have that luxury. They abandon their users on an unsupported OS, at their peril. That already happened with 7.8, and it nearly killed the platform. If they pull this again, there won't be a 'nearly' about it.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    01-23-2016 11:12 AM
  4. GazooAz's Avatar
    Personally I am waiting for a new flagship phone from Blu or Alcatel to come out and hopefully be a less expensive alternative to Microsoft with some high end specs.
    01-23-2016 02:05 PM
  5. Greg Wenzler's Avatar
    I know AT&T owns and runs Cricket, that's why I went to Cricket in the first place lol. But you will see a lot more Windows Phone promotional material and display units in a Cricket store than you ever will in an AT&T (or any other cell phone carrier) store was my point.

    So you bailed on Windows as a phone because WM10 didn't come in December as originally planned by Microsoft? Why not just download the insider preview? I have it on my 640 and it runs wonderfully on that phone.
    I did run on the Insider Preview. I had several problems with it, but that wasn't why I bailed. I bailed because I don't think WP will be around in a year or two, and I wanted to build my app library on a platform that will stay around. It was mostly an app-based decision.
    01-23-2016 02:51 PM
  6. metalb00's Avatar
    microsoft isnt being nice as much as its trying everything possible to build a user base to expand their footprint in the market, they will do more than google and apple to get their main version of the os on as many devices as possible and have people used to it in hopes they will stay with it for their next device
    01-23-2016 08:10 PM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The argument for the 4S is only valid until you consider that Apple only makes 1 model. If you want to split hairs and consider the S and S Plus as separate models, fine. So they make a whopping 2 models. Lumia handsets alone make up 36 devices according to Microsoft's list of approved handsets. If Apple made as many different devices as Microsoft/Nokia or Samsung, I doubt iOS releases would be as often and I seriously doubt all models would be covered.

    Supported phones for Windows Insider Preview - Microsoft Windows
    01-23-2016 08:44 PM
  8. ajayden's Avatar
    The argument for the 4S is only valid until you consider that Apple only makes 1 model. If you want to split hairs and consider the S and S Plus as separate models, fine. So they make a whopping 2 models. Lumia handsets alone make up 36 devices according to Microsoft's list of approved handsets. If Apple made as many different devices as Microsoft/Nokia or Samsung, I doubt iOS releases would be as often and I seriously doubt all models would be covered.

    Supported phones for Windows Insider Preview - Microsoft Windows
    Yes, I have seen that page in the past but actual user experience is something different. You might have to look the thread from Windows Central, I have posted below. That is where every old phone user is posting the issues on their phones. 87 pages of issues.

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...tm#post3385726
    01-24-2016 03:06 AM
  9. ajayden's Avatar
    That's because most people don't do the sensible thing of a factory reset when things stop working properly. Go watch the W10M device specific videos by Rich Woods from For the love of tech on YouTube and you'll see that the only device that struggles with running it is the Lumia 520.
    Thanks for directing me to the videos from Rich Woods. Went through all his videos and he does mention in his video that even thought Windows Mobile installs on almost all models, but its a bit slow on certain models. Example is his video for L1020.

    Here is the video
    01-24-2016 03:09 AM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yes, I have seen that page in the past but actual user experience is something different. You might have to look the thread from Windows Central, I have posted below. That is where every old phone user is posting the issues on their phones. 87 pages of issues.

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...tm#post3385726
    You're going off on a wild tangent now. The 4S has multiple issues with iOS 9.2 and you're welcome to visit our sister site (iMore) and check for yourself. Not all "legacy" devices are able to run newer versions of their respective OS regardless of platform. The topic of this thread is about OEM support for older devices, not whether the user experience is satisfactory.
    01-24-2016 10:25 AM
  11. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    (If they do abandon the old devices)This time the reason is even less sufficient than the WP7.5 -> WP8 reboot because the old flagship hardware(QCom8960, 1G RAM) are capable running W10M and we know it from TP build plus the new mid-range devices(lumia550/650) are not better/faster than those three year old devices. The new SoC (snapdragon 210/212) are even slower than 8960 in terms of single-thread task (and have a slower aderno 304 vs 225@8960) and I don't see WP8/W10M a well-established multi-task platform compared to iOS/Andorid so I highly doubt the UX of old flagships will be out-performed by the new mid-range devices.

    Software-wise, there's very little achievement in WP8/8.1 during the past three years. As a average joe end-user all the sensible changes I felt from WP8 to WP8.1.1 built 341 is : tile folder/notification center/screen rotation lock(yes finally)/cortana(that only works in some regionof the world yet some basic function are bundle to it like QUIET HOUR). The rest are all bug-fix or basic function patching kind of work, the pace they took is not appreciable AT ALL. According to the speed of evolution in both software and hardware SPEC the service period of WP8 should be at least twice as long compare to iOS/Android platform so it's kinda irresponsible to me if they just cut all wp8 devices lose and let them sitting there die slowly now. Again from TP build we already know the old flagship can rock W10M quite well. Since MSFT are not giving it's new product line fully support of continuum - the only feature/technology to separate the old devices from the new ones, I really failed to see why the old devices can't be updated to the W10M (they stalled the iOS/Anroid app project anyway so for me W10M is just a face-lift, UWP-supported WP8).

    Anyway, if MSFT not provide update for old wp8 device that would be the third time of rebooting a platform within 5 years time and that gonna hurt their reputation for sure.
    raycpl and Greg Wenzler like this.
    01-24-2016 12:10 PM
  12. zapppa83's Avatar
    Groove,Edge and Camera are horrible on old phones. With hard reset too. And often the phone freeze.
    MS should improve the software.
    Greg Wenzler likes this.
    01-24-2016 12:39 PM
  13. Hoangboy's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile has only been released on 3 phones - 550/950/950XL, that too because there was a lot of request from users, for flagship phones. The forums are the evidence of the requests or complaints that "no flagships are released for nearly 2 years".

    Now this demand has changed to Windows Mobile on older phones. Does Microsoft really have to provide updates for older phones?

    Lets looks at 2 scenarios that I found on the internet.

    1) Apple releases iOS to only selected devices. Below is the screenshot.
    Attachment 120832

    2) Samsung releases Android 6.0 Marshmallow to selected devices. Below is the screenshot.
    Attachment 120833

    We can see clearly from the above screenshots that Apple and Samsung don't release latest OS for older phones. I mean those phones that have already reached their "End Of Life" (EOL). By doing that, they are forcing their users to upgrade to the latest phone with the latest OS version.

    Should Microsoft do the same? Or, do you think Microsoft is being nice to the users by offering OS update for phones that are older by 2 years or more?

    I feel they should not provide upgrade for older phones and only provide newer phones with new OS. I say this mostly because the older phones are not designed for newer OS and those who are requesting for newer OS on older phones will complain in the future that the OS is buggy without understanding that they have installed the OS on an older phone.

    Post your suggestions below.
    The whole picture is like this :

    Apple has supporting time around 3+ years
    SS flagship has around 3+ years

    Then what Nokia/Microsoft has :
    *A flop from 7.5 to 8.0
    *A flop of 2 years without flagship
    *A flop from their ally (HTC, Blue, ....), not a single brand has a plan to upgrade

    The question is not "Why", there's should not be a question either, the point is, if MS dont bring W10 to older device, nobody will ever buy this eco system again.

    P/S : abt your ideas that older devices are not designed for new OS, that's wrong, the 550 has a hardware equal or even weaker than some of the older devices, and that 550 run W10 just fine.
    01-24-2016 11:35 PM
  14. Ashif Zubair's Avatar
    they need to address more handsets (even older) as their OS is not "complete" as compared to other matured OS like Android and Apple for their particular devices.

    Old ms phone apps lag, crashes and many bugs, even MS own apps, they must upgrade their customers to a stable and reliable state if they want to be in the mobile business.
    01-25-2016 12:18 AM
  15. Timbre70's Avatar
    Full of excuses.
    01-25-2016 12:41 AM
  16. Nokia5110's Avatar
    Waiting for firmware then upgrade
    01-25-2016 12:53 AM
  17. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    lumia 550 vs lumia 640
    lumia 920 vs lumia 830
    just watch this two vids then you'll know how old flagship devices are not out-preformanced by the w10m-standard lumia 550 and what a joke to judge the "old" phones by the age yet accept a maybe-slower new comer? If we have to pay 150USD to get a similar replacer plus new software, how about we pay 50 to get nice software update on our devices and MSFT can make less crappy products(save the earth for god's sake), focus on something nicer(sellable)?

    puls if you look at this

    then the myth of "budget Windows phone are faster than budget android" are false

    MSFT need to raise their game to another level both in software evelopmental pace and hardware standard evolution.
    theefman likes this.
    01-25-2016 02:13 AM
  18. ajayden's Avatar
    lumia 550 vs lumia 640
    lumia 920 vs lumia 830
    just watch this two vids then you'll know how old flagship devices are not out-preformanced by the w10m-standard lumia 550 and what a joke to judge the "old" phones by the age yet accept a maybe-slower new comer? If we have to pay 150USD to get a similar replacer plus new software, how about we pay 50 to get nice software update on our devices and MSFT can make less crappy products(save the earth for god's sake), focus on something nicer(sellable)?

    puls if you look at this

    then the myth of "budget Windows phone are faster than budget android" are false

    MSFT need to raise their game to another level both in software evelopmental pace and hardware standard evolution.
    First of all, thank you for all the details and videos. However, I don't think the facts are right. Samsung J5 has Snapdragon 410 and L550 Snapdragon 210. Is that a fair comparison? The details of the price of these phones and their specs are below

    Spec Comparison
    lumia-550-2-.png

    Close look at the processor specs
    lumia-550-3-.png

    Price Comparison
    j5-price.png

    l550-price.png

    I am not giving the verdict on this. Users or readers can decide on the verdict between these phones and I definitely think it is not fair to compare L550 with J5.
    mkKozak likes this.
    01-25-2016 02:42 AM
  19. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    First of all, thank you for all the details and videos. However, I don't think the facts are right. Samsung J5 has Snapdragon 410 and L550 Snapdragon 210. Is that a fair comparison?

    I am not giving the verdict on this. Users or readers can decide on the verdict between these phones and I definitely think it is not fair to compare L550 with J5.
    First of all, if we really need to find a FAIR comparison between W10M/Android in terms of SPEC then I'm afraid lumia 550 will only have a head-on with Android wear devices(YES, those smartwatches!). I am not sure which side should feel shameful for this?

    Second, I post that video just because I saw it when I'm looking the rest two, not having anything towards the J5. In fact, the SPEC of J5 isn't shine at it's price range at all and there are devices having better SPEC yet cheaper price.
    http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...iscussion.html
    here are some I had mentioned before:
    Xiaomi Redmi Note 3 (MediaTek) - Full phone specifications
    Octa-core CPU/2G RAM/5.5" FHD screen/5mp front camera/13mp main camera with PDAF/16GB ROM/fingerprint sensor
    MIUI 7 based on android 4.4 (upgrading to 5.1)
    contract-free price start from 140 USD

    ??note2
    Octa-core CPU/2G RAM/5.5" FHD screen/5mp front camera/13mp main camera/16GB ROM
    Flyme OS5 based on Android 5.1
    contract-free price start from 125 USD

    ??metal
    Octa-core CPU/2G RAM/5.5" FHD screen/5mp front camera/13mp main camera with PDAF/16GB ROM/fingerprint sensor/metal back
    Flyme OS5 based on Android 5.1
    contract-free price start from 155 USD

    OPPO Mirror 5 5????4G LTE???????? -OPPO ??
    Quad-core CPU/2G RAM/5" HD screen/5mp front camera/8mp main camera/16GB ROM/ColorOS 2.1based on Android 5.1
    contract-free price 136 USD

    With same price range, I'm sure these devices will out-performance lumia 550.

    --
    Err....so we are done with the "if old devices should be updated topic?"
    01-25-2016 03:19 AM
  20. Hoangboy's Avatar
    First of all, if we really need to find a FAIR comparison between W10M/Android in terms of SPEC then I'm afraid lumia 550 will only have a head-on with Android wear devices(YES, those smartwatches!).
    that's hurt ...................................................
    01-25-2016 05:31 AM
  21. cmucodemonkey's Avatar
    Been to a Cricket store lately? They have Windows Phones front and center in their phone lineup and they have 635 and 640 devices that you can try out on display! It's awesome!!

    Even their TV ads during the holiday season had the Lumia 635 in them as what they called a "Lightning fast 4G Windows phone"

    Last time I was in there the girl working told me that Windows phones are selling really well for Cricket and in most cases out selling Android and iOS devices. Is that just in my area or just at that store? I don't know, but it was still great to hear!
    I should clarify what I meant by "new" handsets. I meant devices announced by Microsoft in October, 2014 (i.e. the Lumia 950, 950 XL, and 550). These are only available on AT&T at the moment. I am a Verizon customer and I can get either the Lumia 735, HTC One M8 or LG Lancet, all of which are 6 months or older. Moreover, there is no indication that any of the new Lumia devices are going to be sold by Verizon in the near future.

    Point being that Verizon is one of the biggest mobile providers in the US, so if Microsoft came out and said that only the 950, 950 XL and 550 would receive Windows 10 Mobile, thus forcing customers to upgrade phones to get the new OS, they would be losing a large potential customer base. Given that Microsoft has such a small percentage of the market at the moment that would be potentially devastating for the future of Windows Phone.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    01-25-2016 11:46 AM
  22. neo158's Avatar
    Thanks for directing me to the videos from Rich Woods. Went through all his videos and he does mention in his video that even thought Windows Mobile installs on almost all models, but its a bit slow on certain models. Example is his video for L1020.

    Here is the video
    True but on all but the 520 the slowness is nowhere near unbearable.
    01-25-2016 12:59 PM
  23. libra89's Avatar
    *A flop from their ally (HTC, Blue, ....), not a single brand has a plan to upgrade
    Actually, this is incorrect. I don't know about HTC, but BLU has stated several times that the Win HD LTE and Win HD will get W10M when it is available. If you go to the MS store listing and even BLU's own website, it says that they will be upgraded.
    01-25-2016 04:07 PM
  24. ajayden's Avatar
    See the screenshot below that I have taken from one of the thread in this forum.
    battery-lag-1020.png

    This is exactly what I was talking about. No matter what, the older phones will have issue with an OS version they were not designed to run and people will complain. It is better for people to complain that "the OS is not available for my phone" than for them to complain "The OS is buggy on my phone"
    01-25-2016 09:16 PM
  25. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile has only been released on 3 phones - 550/950/950XL, that too because there was a lot of request from users, for flagship phones. The forums are the evidence of the requests or complaints that "no flagships are released for nearly 2 years".

    Now this demand has changed to Windows Mobile on older phones. Does Microsoft really have to provide updates for older phones?

    Lets looks at 2 scenarios that I found on the internet.

    1) Apple releases iOS to only selected devices. Below is the screenshot.
    Attachment 120832

    2) Samsung releases Android 6.0 Marshmallow to selected devices. Below is the screenshot.
    Attachment 120833

    We can see clearly from the above screenshots that Apple and Samsung don't release latest OS for older phones. I mean those phones that have already reached their "End Of Life" (EOL). By doing that, they are forcing their users to upgrade to the latest phone with the latest OS version.

    Should Microsoft do the same? Or, do you think Microsoft is being nice to the users by offering OS update for phones that are older by 2 years or more?

    I feel they should not provide upgrade for older phones and only provide newer phones with new OS. I say this mostly because the older phones are not designed for newer OS and those who are requesting for newer OS on older phones will complain in the future that the OS is buggy without understanding that they have installed the OS on an older phone.

    Post your suggestions below.
    Despite it runs slow, do you think the iphone 4S is a new phone??? or iphone 5? these are old models and still are supported and got the updates year after year. Same goes for Samsung in a way or another. While MS seems unable to deliver a working mobile OS.
    01-26-2016 01:14 AM
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