Why wait for WM10 on older phones?

[metalb00]

microsoft isnt being nice as much as its trying everything possible to build a user base to expand their footprint in the market, they will do more than google and apple to get their main version of the os on as many devices as possible and have people used to it in hopes they will stay with it for their next device

 

[fatclue_98]

The argument for the 4S is only valid until you consider that Apple only makes 1 model. If you want to split hairs and consider the S and S Plus as separate models, fine. So they make a whopping 2 models. Lumia handsets alone make up 36 devices according to Microsoft's list of approved handsets. If Apple made as many different devices as Microsoft/Nokia or Samsung, I doubt iOS releases would be as often and I seriously doubt all models would be covered.

Supported phones for Windows Insider Preview - Microsoft Windows

 

[ajayden]

The argument for the 4S is only valid until you consider that Apple only makes 1 model. If you want to split hairs and consider the S and S Plus as separate models, fine. So they make a whopping 2 models. Lumia handsets alone make up 36 devices according to Microsoft's list of approved handsets. If Apple made as many different devices as Microsoft/Nokia or Samsung, I doubt iOS releases would be as often and I seriously doubt all models would be covered.

Supported phones for Windows Insider Preview - Microsoft Windows

Yes, I have seen that page in the past but actual user experience is something different. You might have to look the thread from Windows Central, I have posted below. That is where every old phone user is posting the issues on their phones. 87 pages of issues.

http://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile-insider-preview/340958-87.htm#post3385726

 

[ajayden]

That's because most people don't do the sensible thing of a factory reset when things stop working properly. Go watch the W10M device specific videos by Rich Woods from For the love of tech on YouTube and you'll see that the only device that struggles with running it is the Lumia 520.

Thanks for directing me to the videos from Rich Woods. Went through all his videos and he does mention in his video that even thought Windows Mobile installs on almost all models, but its a bit slow on certain models. Example is his video for L1020.

Here is the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzNgI-UovaY

 

[fatclue_98]

Yes, I have seen that page in the past but actual user experience is something different. You might have to look the thread from Windows Central, I have posted below. That is where every old phone user is posting the issues on their phones. 87 pages of issues.

http://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile-insider-preview/340958-87.htm#post3385726

You're going off on a wild tangent now. The 4S has multiple issues with iOS 9.2 and you're welcome to visit our sister site (iMore) and check for yourself. Not all "legacy" devices are able to run newer versions of their respective OS regardless of platform. The topic of this thread is about OEM support for older devices, not whether the user experience is satisfactory.

 

[Tien-Lin Chang]

(If they do abandon the old devices)This time the reason is even less sufficient than the WP7.5 -> WP8 reboot because the old flagship hardware(QCom8960, 1G RAM) are capable running W10M and we know it from TP build plus the new mid-range devices(lumia550/650) are not better/faster than those three year old devices. The new SoC (snapdragon 210/212) are even slower than 8960 in terms of single-thread task (and have a slower aderno 304 vs 225@8960) and I don't see WP8/W10M a well-established multi-task platform compared to iOS/Andorid so I highly doubt the UX of old flagships will be out-performed by the new mid-range devices.

Software-wise, there's very little achievement in WP8/8.1 during the past three years. As a average joe end-user all the sensible changes I felt from WP8 to WP8.1.1 built 341 is : tile folder/notification center/screen rotation lock(yes finally)/cortana(that only works in some regionof the world yet some basic function are bundle to it like QUIET HOUR). The rest are all bug-fix or basic function patching kind of work, the pace they took is not appreciable AT ALL. According to the speed of evolution in both software and hardware SPEC the service period of WP8 should be at least twice as long compare to iOS/Android platform so it's kinda irresponsible to me if they just cut all wp8 devices lose and let them sitting there die slowly now. Again from TP build we already know the old flagship can rock W10M quite well. Since MSFT are not giving it's new product line fully support of continuum - the only feature/technology to separate the old devices from the new ones, I really failed to see why the old devices can't be updated to the W10M (they stalled the iOS/Anroid app project anyway so for me W10M is just a face-lift, UWP-supported WP8).

Anyway, if MSFT not provide update for old wp8 device that would be the third time of rebooting a platform within 5 years time and that gonna hurt their reputation for sure.

 

[zapppa83]

Groove,Edge and Camera are horrible on old phones. With hard reset too. And often the phone freeze.
MS should improve the software.

 

[Hoangboy]

Windows 10 Mobile has only been released on 3 phones - 550/950/950XL, that too because there was a lot of request from users, for flagship phones. The forums are the evidence of the requests or complaints that "no flagships are released for nearly 2 years".

Now this demand has changed to Windows Mobile on older phones. Does Microsoft really have to provide updates for older phones?

Lets looks at 2 scenarios that I found on the internet.

1) Apple releases iOS to only selected devices. Below is the screenshot.
View attachment 120832

2) Samsung releases Android 6.0 Marshmallow to selected devices. Below is the screenshot.
View attachment 120833

We can see clearly from the above screenshots that Apple and Samsung don't release latest OS for older phones. I mean those phones that have already reached their "End Of Life" (EOL). By doing that, they are forcing their users to upgrade to the latest phone with the latest OS version.

Should Microsoft do the same? Or, do you think Microsoft is being nice to the users by offering OS update for phones that are older by 2 years or more?

I feel they should not provide upgrade for older phones and only provide newer phones with new OS. I say this mostly because the older phones are not designed for newer OS and those who are requesting for newer OS on older phones will complain in the future that the OS is buggy without understanding that they have installed the OS on an older phone.

Post your suggestions below.

The whole picture is like this :

Apple has supporting time around 3+ years
SS flagship has around 3+ years

Then what Nokia/Microsoft has :
*A flop from 7.5 to 8.0
*A flop of 2 years without flagship
*A flop from their ally (HTC, Blue, ....), not a single brand has a plan to upgrade

The question is not "Why", there's should not be a question either, the point is, if MS dont bring W10 to older device, nobody will ever buy this eco system again.

P/S : abt your ideas that older devices are not designed for new OS, that's wrong, the 550 has a hardware equal or even weaker than some of the older devices, and that 550 run W10 just fine.

 

[Ashif Zubair]

they need to address more handsets (even older) as their OS is not "complete" as compared to other matured OS like Android and Apple for their particular devices.

Old ms phone apps lag, crashes and many bugs, even MS own apps, they must upgrade their customers to a stable and reliable state if they want to be in the mobile business.

 

[Timbre70]

Full of excuses.

 

[Nokia5110]

Waiting for firmware then upgrade

 

[Tien-Lin Chang]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQjhn54KfoM lumia 550 vs lumia 640
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC1XC-3oKoI lumia 920 vs lumia 830
just watch this two vids then you'll know how old flagship devices are not out-preformanced by the w10m-standard lumia 550 and what a joke to judge the "old" phones by the age yet accept a maybe-slower new comer? If we have to pay 150USD to get a similar replacer plus new software, how about we pay 50 to get nice software update on our devices and MSFT can make less crappy products(save the earth for god's sake), focus on something nicer(sellable)?

puls if you look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Ue3xgtQKw
then the myth of "budget Windows phone are faster than budget android" are false

MSFT need to raise their game to another level both in software evelopmental pace and hardware standard evolution.

 

[ajayden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQjhn54KfoM lumia 550 vs lumia 640
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC1XC-3oKoI lumia 920 vs lumia 830
just watch this two vids then you'll know how old flagship devices are not out-preformanced by the w10m-standard lumia 550 and what a joke to judge the "old" phones by the age yet accept a maybe-slower new comer? If we have to pay 150USD to get a similar replacer plus new software, how about we pay 50 to get nice software update on our devices and MSFT can make less crappy products(save the earth for god's sake), focus on something nicer(sellable)?

puls if you look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Ue3xgtQKw
then the myth of "budget Windows phone are faster than budget android" are false

MSFT need to raise their game to another level both in software evelopmental pace and hardware standard evolution.

First of all, thank you for all the details and videos. However, I don't think the facts are right. Samsung J5 has Snapdragon 410 and L550 Snapdragon 210. Is that a fair comparison? The details of the price of these phones and their specs are below

Spec Comparison


Close look at the processor specs


Price Comparison




I am not giving the verdict on this. Users or readers can decide on the verdict between these phones and I definitely think it is not fair to compare L550 with J5.

 

[Tien-Lin Chang]

First of all, thank you for all the details and videos. However, I don't think the facts are right. Samsung J5 has Snapdragon 410 and L550 Snapdragon 210. Is that a fair comparison?

I am not giving the verdict on this. Users or readers can decide on the verdict between these phones and I definitely think it is not fair to compare L550 with J5.

First of all, if we really need to find a FAIR comparison between W10M/Android in terms of SPEC then I'm afraid lumia 550 will only have a head-on with Android wear devices(YES, those smartwatches!). I am not sure which side should feel shameful for this?

Second, I post that video just because I saw it when I'm looking the rest two, not having anything towards the J5. In fact, the SPEC of J5 isn't shine at it's price range at all and there are devices having better SPEC yet cheaper price.
http://forums.windowscentral.com/wi...ot-aggressive-pricing-healthy-discussion.html
here are some I had mentioned before:
Xiaomi Redmi Note 3 (MediaTek) - Full phone specifications
Octa-core CPU/2G RAM/5.5" FHD screen/5mp front camera/13mp main camera with PDAF/16GB ROM/fingerprint sensor
MIUI 7 based on android 4.4 (upgrading to 5.1)
contract-free price start from 140 USD

??note2
Octa-core CPU/2G RAM/5.5" FHD screen/5mp front camera/13mp main camera/16GB ROM
Flyme OS5 based on Android 5.1
contract-free price start from 125 USD

??metal
Octa-core CPU/2G RAM/5.5" FHD screen/5mp front camera/13mp main camera with PDAF/16GB ROM/fingerprint sensor/metal back
Flyme OS5 based on Android 5.1
contract-free price start from 155 USD

OPPO Mirror 5 5????4G LTE???????? -OPPO ??
Quad-core CPU/2G RAM/5" HD screen/5mp front camera/8mp main camera/16GB ROM/ColorOS 2.1based on Android 5.1
contract-free price 136 USD

With same price range, I'm sure these devices will out-performance lumia 550.

--
Err....so we are done with the "if old devices should be updated topic?"

 

[Hoangboy]

First of all, if we really need to find a FAIR comparison between W10M/Android in terms of SPEC then I'm afraid lumia 550 will only have a head-on with Android wear devices(YES, those smartwatches!).

that's hurt ...................................................

 

[cmucodemonkey]

Been to a Cricket store lately? They have Windows Phones front and center in their phone lineup and they have 635 and 640 devices that you can try out on display! It's awesome!!

Even their TV ads during the holiday season had the Lumia 635 in them as what they called a "Lightning fast 4G Windows phone"

Last time I was in there the girl working told me that Windows phones are selling really well for Cricket and in most cases out selling Android and iOS devices. Is that just in my area or just at that store? I don't know, but it was still great to hear!

I should clarify what I meant by "new" handsets. I meant devices announced by Microsoft in October, 2014 (i.e. the Lumia 950, 950 XL, and 550). These are only available on AT&T at the moment. I am a Verizon customer and I can get either the Lumia 735, HTC One M8 or LG Lancet, all of which are 6 months or older. Moreover, there is no indication that any of the new Lumia devices are going to be sold by Verizon in the near future.

Point being that Verizon is one of the biggest mobile providers in the US, so if Microsoft came out and said that only the 950, 950 XL and 550 would receive Windows 10 Mobile, thus forcing customers to upgrade phones to get the new OS, they would be losing a large potential customer base. Given that Microsoft has such a small percentage of the market at the moment that would be potentially devastating for the future of Windows Phone.

 

[neo158]

Thanks for directing me to the videos from Rich Woods. Went through all his videos and he does mention in his video that even thought Windows Mobile installs on almost all models, but its a bit slow on certain models. Example is his video for L1020.

Here is the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzNgI-UovaY

True but on all but the 520 the slowness is nowhere near unbearable.

 

[libra89]

*A flop from their ally (HTC, Blue, ....), not a single brand has a plan to upgrade

Actually, this is incorrect. I don't know about HTC, but BLU has stated several times that the Win HD LTE and Win HD will get W10M when it is available. If you go to the MS store listing and even BLU's own website, it says that they will be upgraded.

 

[ajayden]

See the screenshot below that I have taken from one of the thread in this forum.


This is exactly what I was talking about. No matter what, the older phones will have issue with an OS version they were not designed to run and people will complain. It is better for people to complain that "the OS is not available for my phone" than for them to complain "The OS is buggy on my phone"

 

[mariusmuntean]

Windows 10 Mobile has only been released on 3 phones - 550/950/950XL, that too because there was a lot of request from users, for flagship phones. The forums are the evidence of the requests or complaints that "no flagships are released for nearly 2 years".

Now this demand has changed to Windows Mobile on older phones. Does Microsoft really have to provide updates for older phones?

Lets looks at 2 scenarios that I found on the internet.

1) Apple releases iOS to only selected devices. Below is the screenshot.
View attachment 120832

2) Samsung releases Android 6.0 Marshmallow to selected devices. Below is the screenshot.
View attachment 120833

We can see clearly from the above screenshots that Apple and Samsung don't release latest OS for older phones. I mean those phones that have already reached their "End Of Life" (EOL). By doing that, they are forcing their users to upgrade to the latest phone with the latest OS version.

Should Microsoft do the same? Or, do you think Microsoft is being nice to the users by offering OS update for phones that are older by 2 years or more?

I feel they should not provide upgrade for older phones and only provide newer phones with new OS. I say this mostly because the older phones are not designed for newer OS and those who are requesting for newer OS on older phones will complain in the future that the OS is buggy without understanding that they have installed the OS on an older phone.

Post your suggestions below.

Despite it runs slow, do you think the iphone 4S is a new phone??? or iphone 5? these are old models and still are supported and got the updates year after year. Same goes for Samsung in a way or another. While MS seems unable to deliver a working mobile OS.