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05-05-2016 05:10 PM
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  1. tgp's Avatar
    I do not refute that you can use unbranded phones. But it was reported on WindowsCentral that they would not allow the 950 or 950xl to work on their networks. I can't find that article, but here is another one.

    Verizon Reportedly Blocking Microsoft?s Lumia 950 And 950 XL: Report : TECH : Tech Times
    The article you linked does not say that Verizon would not allow the 950/XL to work on their network. And, this sentence
    Due to the nature of CDMA networks, any devices riding on the band must first have their MEIDs (Mobile Equipment Identifier) added by the network.
    in the article is not totally accurate. Verizon would not activate the Nexus 6 or the factory unlocked iPhone 6/+ either, but if you had an already activated SIM card, you could insert it and the phones would work perfectly. In fact, that is how I "activated" the Nexus 6 I currently use on Verizon. It is a pain in the neck, and requires another Verizon phone to activate the SIM card if you do not already have one, but it is possible.

    Microsoft could have done the same with the new Lumias. The article even says that they have the hardware to work on Verizon, but Microsoft deliberately disabled the CDMA radio. When they go on to say that Verizon wouldn't have them anyway, they are likely referring to the fact that Verizon would not sell them or activate them. However, they still could have been used on Verizon the same way the Nexus 6, unlocked iPhones, and the Moto X Pure 2015 were used on Verizon.

    From what we know, this one is on Microsoft.

    CDMA has nothing to do with it. You can enable CDMA on any/every phone. There is no legal precedent to force Verizon to activate that phone onto their network.
    This is technically correct. However, I do not believe everyone understands the difference between activate and allow. Verizon is not forced to activate any capable phone on their network, but they are forced to allow it. Again, as far as we know this one is on Microsoft.
    04-24-2016 11:10 PM
  2. RumoredNow's Avatar
    This is technically correct. However, I do not believe everyone understands the difference between activate and allow. Verizon is not forced to activate any capable phone on their network, but they are forced to allow it. Again, as far as we know this one is on Microsoft.
    True enough. As witnessed by any device being allowed to tether within permission of the contracted plan between Vzw and customer. I'm not convinced that activate has been fully tested in the rulings as the 3rd party grievance revolved around Play Apps being blocked from consumer view and not primary device access...

    I'm sure it would take another class action suit to resolve that matter fully.
    a5cent and aximtreo like this.
    04-25-2016 12:00 AM
  3. a5cent's Avatar
    ...but Microsoft deliberately disabled the CDMA radio. When they go on to say that Verizon wouldn't have them anyway, they are likely referring to the fact that Verizon would not sell them or activate them. However, they still could have been used on Verizon the same way the Nexus 6, unlocked iPhones, and the Moto X Pure 2015 were used on Verizon.

    From what we know, this one is on Microsoft.
    What exactly went down here is extremely murky. IMHO, from the little we know, we can't really know anything.

    The fact remains that it's completely nonsensical for MS to willy-nilly and purposefully prevent their phones from working on the U.S.' most popular cellular network. It's so nonsensical in fact, that there is no way the statement "this one is on MS" is in any way believable. It's just not... We'd have to get into conspiracy theory territory where we believe forces within MS are themselves plotting to destroy WM. I think not...

    Even if MS was stupid enough to give the 950/XL to AT&T as an exclusive, that still would not necessitate that they disable bands.

    With the little we know, the only entity we can really blame, is the legal and business framework setup by U.S. carriers, because it's the only such framework in the world that fosters this kind of crap. Nowhere else in the world...
    04-25-2016 02:10 AM
  4. MikeKata's Avatar
    I firmly believe that MS has not abandoned WP. And this is why. Windows 10 for PC and WP10 share the same code (they are not the same OS, but they share a large part of the code). Windows 10 is trying to be an all-devices OS and it is doing extremely well. WP10 with Continuum is showing the direction of Microsoft's strategy. They have invested billions of dollars to this strategic plan (the unification of the platforms under one OS), they cannot abandon it like that. See how Google and Apple are trying to achieve that but they are failing. MS is at a great starting point and in my opinion, the reason they are not advertising WP10 so much is because the next 1-2 years, phones will be even more powerful and capable to run the full Windows 10.

    Sent from my Lumia 640
    ladydias and RumoredNow like this.
    04-25-2016 06:30 AM
  5. cmucodemonkey's Avatar
    I firmly believe that MS has not abandoned WP. And this is why. Windows 10 for PC and WP10 share the same code (they are not the same OS, but they share a large part of the code). Windows 10 is trying to be an all-devices OS and it is doing extremely well. WP10 with Continuum is showing the direction of Microsoft's strategy. They have invested billions of dollars to this strategic plan (the unification of the platforms under one OS), they cannot abandon it like that.
    I agree that Windows Mobile is still on Microsoft's radar, but it is clear that it is not Microsoft's priority. Just look at where new Microsoft apps are appearing first, Android and iOS. If Microsoft really wanted to show Windows Mobile as part of the Windows 10 "one-platform" strategy they should be releasing these apps for Windows Phone or in the very least Windows Insiders.

    Before Windows 10 came out there used to be a joke that Apple computers were the best hardware to run Windows. Granted there is absolutely nothing wrong with Microsoft making apps for its various products on other OS's, but when your own OS becomes a second or third class citizen in your own apps that says something.
    04-25-2016 07:51 AM
  6. Stef8600's Avatar
    I firmly believe that MS has not abandoned WP. And this is why. Windows 10 for PC and WP10 share the same code (they are not the same OS, but they share a large part of the code). Windows 10 is trying to be an all-devices OS and it is doing extremely well. WP10 with Continuum is showing the direction of Microsoft's strategy. They have invested billions of dollars to this strategic plan (the unification of the platforms under one OS), they cannot abandon it like that. See how Google and Apple are trying to achieve that but they are failing. MS is at a great starting point and in my opinion, the reason they are not advertising WP10 so much is because the next 1-2 years, phones will be even more powerful and capable to run the full Windows 10.

    Sent from my Lumia 640
    MS started from a clean sheet when developing W10 and to achieve what they have in mind. I don't think Google and Apple dare to do that. They are leading the dance, MS had nothing to lose....
    MS's most important strategy is getting W10 ready for a wide range of devices, Phones are a part of that range, but first things first...
    04-25-2016 08:44 AM
  7. uselessrobot's Avatar
    Microsoft has only themselves to blame for the continued failure of Windows Phone. However, given the state in which Windows 10 mobile was released I can't imagine they were surprised by this. My time with my Lumia 950 leads me to believe that I'm basically in an open beta. This is particularly evident when you compare it to the desktop version, which is extremely stable, although even that has some occasional annoying issues.

    That would imply that they're working towards a more significant milestone with mobile. It would make sense, because mobile is far too important to abandon.

    If Microsoft did release W10 mobile thinking it was a viable competitor then they've got much bigger problems to worry about.
    cracgor and Kram Sacul like this.
    04-25-2016 10:35 AM
  8. diapers's Avatar
    And yet their revenues for most other departments have increased by small to significant margins.
    Azure is up, office is up, search is up, surface is up, xbox is up.
    They failed on the phone and that's a pretty huge deal. As a dev I was so disappointed in build, it was the one thing that was supposed to make investing in that platform viable and the simply gave up. The desktop is ok but there are massive eyeballs on mobile, if MS can't deliver there with their holygrail UWP then what's the point?
    04-25-2016 11:53 AM
  9. newnews's Avatar
    That is what MS wants! They tried everything to kill Lumia because Lumia takes 95% of WP market. They want to have other OEM make phones. However, I will say the strategy does not work at all.
    04-25-2016 03:51 PM
  10. RumoredNow's Avatar
    That is what MS wants! They tried everything to kill Lumia because Lumia takes 95% of WP market. They want to have other OEM make phones. However, I will say the strategy does not work at all.
    How so? We have Continuum enabled phones out in some Regions and in the pipe elsewhere from OEMs. Also the number of white labels is on the rise and more original OEMs getting into the act.

    Alcatel
    Coship
    HP
    MCJ
    NuAns
    Vaio
    HeyCori, a5cent and aximtreo like this.
    04-25-2016 04:19 PM
  11. HeyCori's Avatar
    I'm less concerned with Windows Phone's free fall and more concerned with how Microsoft plans to respond to it. Most of us agree (or have come to the realization) that selling phones is not Microsoft's priority. As of right now, Microsoft's only priority is to finish their numerous software projects.

    Microsoft is banking on projects like Islandwood, Centennial, Xamarin, and the Anniversary update (desktop and mobile) to create a more unified Windows platform. Right now, Windows Phone is a promise Microsoft can't deliver. However, we all know that's where Microsoft wants to go. Microsoft wants the desktop to be synonymous with mobile (whether they get there is a different debate). And yes, that is going to take one Herculean effort.

    But what comes after? How does Microsoft convince businesses (let alone the masses) that their new Windows Phone is a worthwhile investment? That's the one thing Microsoft doesn't seem to have a plan for. When a business or average consumer sees a product in a complete, BlackBerry style free fall, the job of convincing them to buy your hardware becomes much harder. Unfortunately, Nadella seems all too comfortable with the media's perception that Windows Phone is a dead product. Every Insider knows that the OS is far from dead, yet that isn't the message that the average consumer is getting from Microsoft. Sometimes marketing isn't putting up a big "buy me" sign in Times Square. Sometimes marketing is controlling the narrative, which is what Nadella should be doing more of.

    Time is a finite resource. Nadella may find that by the time he does decide to "push" Windows Phone, even the faithful will have left him. Plus, he has to consider the harm he's doing to OEMs. Every new Windows Phone that hits the market is considered DOA. That's going to have a huge effect on potential sales and will only serve to drive more OEMs away from the Windows Phone market. Many of these new W10 devices may be the first and last we see from these companies.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 04-25-2016 at 06:25 PM.
    04-25-2016 06:11 PM
  12. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    Many of these new W10 devices may be the first and last we see from these companies.
    It would certainly be interesting to know many devices T-Mobile's current Alcatel Windows Phone is currently selling. There is a more powerful version in the works, the Alcatel OneTouch Idol Pro 4 so it will be telling whether T-Mobile decides to sell this one too.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    04-26-2016 08:59 AM
  13. newnews's Avatar
    That is very small list

    How so? We have Continuum enabled phones out in some Regions and in the pipe elsewhere from OEMs. Also the number of white labels is on the rise and more original OEMs getting into the act.

    Alcatel
    Coship
    HP
    MCJ
    NuAns
    Vaio
    04-26-2016 01:09 PM
  14. RumoredNow's Avatar
    That is very small list
    And I'm sure I missed a couple...

    You said:
    That is what MS wants! They tried everything to kill Lumia because Lumia takes 95% of WP market. They want to have other OEM make phones. However, I will say the strategy does not work at all.
    Does not work at all would imply no OEMs are trying W10M handsets.

    The fact that HP is making their first smartphone since 2011 and are going all in with a high end W10M Continuum device AND creating a server side solution to get x86/x64 apps to devices for corporate clients AND creating a wide group of hardware add-ons to extend functionality... This tells me that HP is privy to information I as a consumer simply do not have access to yet. Re: Microsoft commitment to continuing in Mobile, supporting and working with OEMs and allowing OEMs to fill spaces rather than trying to squeeze them out as Nokia did along with future strategies and directions under the Microsoft timetable for the next several years.

    Alcatel is building a "superphone" for W10M, they have a budget phone placed with an American Carrier (possibly the hugest gamble to gain a foothold on the US market in a decade) and also have an 8" tab running W10M that has telephony via speakerphone or headset to make a neat and tidy all in one solution for users in emerging economies.. Acer has a Continuum solution.

    Again, what part of this says the strategy does not work at all?

    What is it that these companies don't know? Do you suppose they are committing the amount of resources that producing such high end devices necessarily entails and their only intelligence is the many Blog posts that say Windows Phone is dead? Are we to assume that companies like HP, Alcatel, Viao, Acer and others are just creating a one off pit to throw money into with no plan for follow through? That it is all a charade? That they have not conferred with Microsoft? That Microsoft is burning it's bridges with partners by outright conning them into sinking money into devices that Microsoft won't support in future?

    Please, explain the "does not work" part to me as if I'm stupid. I must be, because I can't see it as not working when companies are throwing so many resources at Windows in the mobile space.
    04-26-2016 02:17 PM
  15. cracgor's Avatar
    And I'm sure I missed a couple...

    You said:


    Does not work at all would imply no OEMs are trying W10M handsets.

    The fact that HP is making their first smartphone since 2011 and are going all in with a high end W10M Continuum device AND creating a server side solution to get x86/x64 apps to devices for corporate clients AND creating a wide group of hardware add-ons to extend functionality... This tells me that HP is privy to information I as a consumer simply do not have access to yet. Re: Microsoft commitment to continuing in Mobile, supporting and working with OEMs and allowing OEMs to fill spaces rather than trying to squeeze them out as Nokia did along with future strategies and directions under the Microsoft timetable for the next several years.

    Alcatel is building a "superphone" for W10M, they have a budget phone placed with an American Carrier (possibly the hugest gamble to gain a foothold on the US market in a decade) and also have an 8" tab running W10M that has telephony via speakerphone or headset to make a neat and tidy all in one solution for users in emerging economies.. Acer has a Continuum solution.

    Again, what part of this says the strategy does not work at all?

    What is it that these companies don't know? Do you suppose they are committing the amount of resources that producing such high end devices necessarily entails and their only intelligence is the many Blog posts that say Windows Phone is dead? Are we to assume that companies like HP, Alcatel, Viao, Acer and others are just creating a one off pit to throw money into with no plan for follow through? That it is all a charade? That they have not conferred with Microsoft? That Microsoft is burning it's bridges with partners by outright conning them into sinking money into devices that Microsoft won't support in future?

    Please, explain the "does not work" part to me as if I'm stupid. I must be, because I can't see it as not working when companies are throwing so many resources at Windows in the mobile space.
    I read it as "the strategy does not work" for the overall success of Windows Mobile; or increasing the number of Windows Mobile users to a viable third platform. Microsoft pulls back with the Lumia brand to allow more room for other companies. Other companies make phones. Now we have to see if it works.

    The Alcatel "gamble" you mention sounds too eerily like Nokia's gamble.

    Also, assuming the companies are making phones because there is some secret information is maybe less likely than Microsoft encouraging them to do it with some sort of assistance. By the Way, HP has been known to throw money into a pit without a plan from time to time (How HP doomed the TouchPad to failure | ZDNet).
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-26-2016 02:41 PM
  16. RumoredNow's Avatar
    By the Way, HP has been known to throw money into a pit without a plan from time to time (How HP doomed the TouchPad to failure | ZDNet).
    Add a couple boondogles on top of that. I'm well aware of the Apothekolypse to webOs and the Autonomy fiasco. Apotheker was HP CEO for about 9 days shy of a year and did everything he could to bankrupt the company.

    Point is that HP must also be aware. They still have the bruised share prices as a reminder. With current leadership and a tighter focused board, I doubt sincerely they are embarking on this course with only the information that consumers have at their disposal. It is precisely the fallout from Apotheker's "tantrum" like killing of webOS hardware that makes it incumbent upon HP to have a successful reentry into the smartphone arena. They can't afford another failure there so soon. If you follow Meg Whitman at all, you can observe that she is well aware of the history and the future need to be successful in mobile. HP has done a lot to rehabilitate itself with tablet offerings. How is it they aren't going with Android for a phone since they have Android tablets aplenty? Must be either superior knowledge or reckless negligence... Hmmm?


    ...assuming the companies are making phones because there is some secret information is maybe less likely than Microsoft encouraging them to do it with some sort of assistance.
    I see innovation a brewing and OEMs taking a chance. If they know no more than I do, are operating in a vacuum and are all just blindly dumping money into Windows as a platform for mobile with no justification I would be astounded. A "subsidy" from Microsoft wouldn't do it, IMHO. How much of a percent do you suppose they are underwriting? 10%? 20%? What point does it need to reach to make a comfortable cushion to entice companies to spend their own money as well? Certainly you wouldn't suggest Microsoft is underwriting 100% of development costs for any OEMs, let alone all of them... Across even half the OEM's I listed? Where is Microsoft hiding these "assistance" packages in their financials?

    I'm not saying "secret" information so much as advance information on direction/features/etc. and assurances from Microsoft about their commitment to this space in the market. It's not a "backroom conspiracy" so much as it is how corporate partnerships are done. Do you suppose corporations that operate in conjunction to the degree that Hardware and Software tech enterprises must act do so without consulting one another?
    04-26-2016 03:20 PM
  17. cracgor's Avatar
    Point is that HP must also be aware...[REDACTED FOR LENGTH] How is it they aren't going with Android for a phone since they have Android tablets aplenty? Must be either superior knowledge or reckless negligence... Hmmm?
    They do have Android phones. I do not think they have sold very well.

    Certainly you wouldn't suggest Microsoft is underwriting 100% of development costs for any OEMs, let alone all of them... Across even half the OEM's I listed?
    I didn't say Microsoft is bribing companies into using Windows 10 Mobile. I think if they were paying a company 100% of the development costs it would be as obvious as Microsoft paying 100% of the development costs of Nokia. Really, I just mean that they do not operate in a vacuum, and Microsoft employs people that go to the hardware companies just to talk them into using the MS product.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-26-2016 03:35 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I read it as "the strategy does not work" for the overall success of Windows Mobile; or increasing the number of Windows Mobile users to a viable third platform. Microsoft pulls back with the Lumia brand to allow more room for other companies. Other companies make phones. Now we have to see if it works.

    The Alcatel "gamble" you mention sounds too eerily like Nokia's gamble.

    Also, assuming the companies are making phones because there is some secret information is maybe less likely than Microsoft encouraging them to do it with some sort of assistance. By the Way, HP has been known to throw money into a pit without a plan from time to time (How HP doomed the TouchPad to failure | ZDNet).
    The Touchpad debacle was a shame. I know somebody who has one. Granted, he got it during the fire sale, but it's a nice tablet.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    04-26-2016 03:35 PM
  19. RumoredNow's Avatar
    They do have Android phones. I do not think they have sold very well.
    Currently? Or Tablets with Telephony enabled?
    04-26-2016 03:36 PM
  20. cracgor's Avatar
    Currently? Or Tablets with Telephony enabled?
    HP Slate6 VoiceTab - Full phone specifications
    04-26-2016 03:43 PM
  21. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Yeah... I think most look on that as Tab with telephony wedged in...
    04-26-2016 03:57 PM
  22. cracgor's Avatar
    I just consider something marketed as a phone that can make phone calls a phone.

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/e?l...token=JpJPp1a3
    04-26-2016 05:19 PM
  23. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    Yeah... I think most look on that as Tab with telephony wedged in...
    It has a 6 inch screen so wouldn't that make the 950 XL a tablet with a phone wedged in? After all it's only a little smaller
    nspg likes this.
    04-26-2016 05:46 PM
  24. RumoredNow's Avatar
    My 1520 has a 6" screen. I never considered it a tablet. It could be marketing perception. Look at the name: Slate6 VoiceTab.

    The Pixi 3 (8) can make phone calls (Android and W10M flavors), but it still represents itself as a tablet.



    Talk about coincidence: Microsoft's Terry Myerson 'committed' to Windows 10 Mobile for 'many years' | Windows Central
    04-26-2016 06:04 PM
  25. Great deal's Avatar
    Was very surprising when MS said Windows Mobile is not a focus for this year. What reason do developers have to create universal apps? most likley a small % use those apps on an Xbox (most people dont have one anyway) Hololens is not released yet...therefore Windows 10 universal apps are competing with their own desktop apps (Nextgen Reader as an example) i feel sorry for HP.
    04-27-2016 08:51 AM
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