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  1. jason hendry1's Avatar
    Terrible idea to reboot again. Windows 8.1 was great I loved it on mobile but the masses didn't and why, some of the popular apps like snap chat and google apps like you tube were missing. But it was more. I love live tiles bit most of my friends dont. Now microsf5 has such a bad reputation and name too. One drive storage remove weeks before 950 release. Xbox always online, rebooting both windows mobile 7 and 8.1 and leaving their own customers left out and bitter.

    Now in 2017 the app store is In worst condition that ever before with no ebay or even paypal app myfitnesspal and add the main app missing like google or snapchat and that's only beginning to paint the picture. My less that 3 year old phone the lumia 930 no longer officially supported. The jokes keep on coming from microsoft.

    Rebooting platform and having big useability apps like what's app stop working even for a week is Gona **** people off but let's be honest, if microsoft can't bring their own gestures app from 8.1 to windows 10 in 2 years or need 2 reboots of Skype and 2 years to give use features we used years ago in Skype. Hell calender got a weekly view 11 months after official release and outlook got linked inboxes closer to 12 months after release, I don't see anything other than all these issues increasing.

    Don't get me wrong theres very few windows mobile users left the nearly last survivors gave up on 2016 after 4 years of faithfulness, whoever's left is Gona sprint to android or apple if apps like you tube metro or what's app break or and take too long if ever to 'reapear. They never should have left it so long for a flagship phone. Microsoft should have kept making phones and supporting them primarily with their own software and they haven't. They could have stuck with 8.1 and improved it there not alienate tour own customer base.

    I'm on a s7 edge now and unlike the lumia 930 where I got 15 gig free storage on one drive before they removed it with lame excuses , I get I 00 gig on one drive cause I own android. Only issue is I use play store to buy my content cause groove music doesn't read my sd card. Then again it's not like the s7 and s7 edge were best selling phones in 2016 lol. Still at least microst is consistent, my ipad doesn't even have a app for groove lol.

    How can we take any windows mobile phone rebooting seriously after these catastrophic series of errors by microsoft? Can any of use ignore the issues that keep happening to this day. Look at edge it kinda sums up state of windows with it's new tab default page restrictions and the forcing edge on internet explorer tab section so people accidental press and use edge. Still at least they havemt forced wondows 7 and 8 users onto wondows 10 yet. Oh wait they have?
    Microsoft has reached its time. It might get another chance but I just don't thing the trust is there anyone with the consumer.

    Windows 10 mobile phone isn't what's needed, I think Microsft needs a proper reboot, a change of name and even a new logo cause at this time I a no longer fan boy as of 2016 and nearly every person I talk to doesn't have anything nice to say about microsoft. They have a damaged name now.
    Last edited by jason hendry1; 06-08-2017 at 07:49 AM.
    techiez and Avi Kcholi like this.
    06-08-2017 07:35 AM
  2. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    Cshell is really nothing new. Android has had adaptive scaling of apps, depending on screen size and resolution, forever. It's the reason why some apps look fine on a typical Android phone, yet look kinda of funny and not optimized on a tablet screen.
    ZantReve likes this.
    06-08-2017 07:48 AM
  3. mtf1380's Avatar
    I look at it this way:

    If a Reboot will leap frog the current, and next years iOS and Android systems, then I'm ALL FOR IT.

    If its is just a catch-up Reboot, than it's not going to any more of an impact than Window 10M did.
    nate0 and Blomsternisse like this.
    06-08-2017 08:29 AM
  4. nate0's Avatar
    Also to add, their retrenchment is the reason they will struggle capturing consumer market again but probably Ms is not targeting that, they will go after enterprises.
    With Nokia, they inherited solid distribution networks in many countries and MS simply abandoned them, just look at surface devices, despite their popularity their availability is limited outside US. It works for them because they leave the 2in1 markets to OEMs but same strategy will not work with mobiles. They need first party hardware and they need it to be available in most of the regions that formerly embraced WPs
    Do you know for certain they lost their channels? Maybe they just do not have them available for anything other than mobile?
    06-08-2017 08:56 AM
  5. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    Abject disregard for quality doesn't help matters, either. I mean, why does WiFi keep disconnecting on my 950? Why does the screen stay black when trying to end a phone call? Why are so many notifications missed? This is BASIC FUNCTIONALITY that they're unwilling or unable to make right. To go off topic briefly, people holler "hard reset, hard reset, hard reset" on these forums like it's a requirement to make W10M function properly. No user should ever have to do that. This software is rotten to the core and deserves to die. Because of this disaster MS has lost my business. I don't care if a Surface Phone craps gold nuggets, I'm NOT interested.
    I'm with you on this. Even the much ballyhooed Creators Update is a hot mess. Things just don't work the way they're supposed to work; the quality control of Mobile is simply not there, where it makes you want to throw the Lumia 950/XL out of the nearest window (har-har-har).

    I wonder how long it'll take until somebody responds with, 'Did you hard-reset....?'
    ZantReve, mattiasnyc and CraigCole like this.
    06-08-2017 09:17 AM
  6. tgp's Avatar
    I wonder how long it'll take until somebody responds with, 'Did you hard-reset....?'
    Did you hard-reset?

    FWIW, a factory reset should be the exception, not the rule. That's one thing that bugs me about WM. I never reset my iOS and Android devices, even after version upgrades, until they're sold and being shipped.
    libra89 likes this.
    06-08-2017 09:27 AM
  7. ZantReve's Avatar
    Honestly, for Microsoft to have any hope at all in the mobile space...They need to have an OS that is functionally stable and just works from the get go. This is why I couldn't stomach using a Windows device as they've always had stability issues. The people in my social circle that do have Windows devices, regret it as they've always experienced such problems that you've listed. This is why iOS and Android are killing it in the market because of their general stability and usability.

    There is no point in rebooting the Mobile OS if the basics aren't even mastered and then expounded upon with useful consumer facing features. Microsoft needs to let this bake in the oven for a while, do rigorous testing and make sure everything works smoothly as possible before even attempting to reboot their Mobile push. Microsoft also needs to get developer's confidence back in order to make their next push into Mobile successful. As Microsoft need more UWP on their store, the most popular consumer apps that general consumers use on a regular basis to even hope for a chance to attract them. While I do use Android, I've eyed Windows Mobile but found it severely lacking as all of my favorite apps have no presence on Win 10 Mobile.
    tgp and libra89 like this.
    06-08-2017 09:35 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    @ZantReve I agree with your post. While I continue to use Windows phone, I have not used one as my primary device for awhile, precisely for the reasons you mentioned. There is a two-fold problem here as you pointed out: unstable OS and immature ecosystem.

    We could add lack of hardware to the list, but I believe that is a result of the first two issues. They caused a lack of demand, which naturally resulted in the drop in production.
    ZantReve likes this.
    06-08-2017 09:53 AM
  9. ZantReve's Avatar
    Indeed, this cycle of failure to entice the consumer will fail again and again until these problems are well and truly fixed.

    Microsoft had best mature the UWP app ecosystem on all of their products before daring to lead the Mobile charge. As being able to provide the experiences people are used to on a mobile device will go a long way to creating a successful platform.
    Chippy757 likes this.
    06-08-2017 10:11 AM
  10. nate0's Avatar
    The OS is the least of the worries compared to the App issue. Android though is just as buggy as W10M. It jus depends on which device you use. iOS on the other hand being as quirky or limited as it is probably has the least amount of issues compared the median range of the other two platforms.

    Yet in either of the three forums you'll find problems. When W10M first "rebooted" from WP8 it was unstable. I got to hand it to those teams that invested in refining the OS into what it is today. Syncing updates across the PC and mobile and bringing features to both. I'm willing to take a spontaneous issue on my phone just knowing they are always in the background working to make it better. With each new cumulative update or each new iteration of the OS it gets better. Like said before Microsoft is full steam ahead evolving this thing. But hey that's my take...
    06-08-2017 10:20 AM
  11. dustwalker13's Avatar
    MS in mobile behaves like a drunken hobo shouting the same **** over and over, staggering around in circles without direction and repeatedly hitting the same lamppost over and over and then explaining to said lamppost that he meant to do this anyway.

    they had a mobile system they let slowly die. when they finally realized that smartphones acutally were a thing they rebooted with windows phone 7 just to abandon their userbase less than two years later in favour of windows 8. then they pulled the same **** with windows 10 only upgrading a subset of their phones, just to "retrench" from the market effectively letting their most current attempt also die a slow and horrible death.

    their behaviour is the very definition of lack of consistency and strategy.
    06-08-2017 11:11 AM
  12. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    Is there a way to roll back from the Creator's Update?
    I updated the Lumia 950 I received, out of the box, so I've never experienced the smoothness and stability others purportedly have.

    I've only had it for two days, and nothing works well. Maps is janky and laggy, the browser is laggy and drops frame rates, and it's all just blech/vomit. Thank goodness my daily driver is a 6S Plus, because the Lumia is not daily driver worthy, with this current software.

    (I also had no idea Spotify dropped their app, and that TuneIn radio on Windows was a horror show, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered, no matter how good the camera is---might as well just buy a Sony RX100 and be done with it).
    Chippy757 likes this.
    06-08-2017 11:23 AM
  13. Ivan05il's Avatar
    For me the reboots signal that they don't know what they want, they keep releasing one half arsed solution after another. If there is a vision it's repeatedly thrown out and replaced with a new one. Instead of polishing and perfecting what they have they keep bringing one buggy solution after another, because it can't be different with anything new, it takes a while. They keep switching how one programs for the platform, which keeps alienating more and more developers, because there's a lot of work to achieve the same thing in a new idiom and no reward. They may get it right in the end, but maybe nobody will care by then.
    06-08-2017 11:29 AM
  14. ZantReve's Avatar
    Apps are certainly important as nobody wants to use an OS that lacks their very familiar experience...In all honesty that is what put me off of Windows 10 Mobile the most. Secondly, the OS issue is important because if the basics don't work well or require consistent hard boots to get working...There really isn't any point in using such a frustrating OS. Granted Microsoft is working on a constant improvement model, I just want them to have a stronger base and continue to develop it even further. As all those small, niggling problems can really be a huge turn off for a general user.

    As for Android, being a long term user I can say that a lot of those small niggling problems are gone in the recent Nougat iteration...Not to say Android doesn't have larger issues, as we all know there are bigger issues that are being ironed out. It's the everyday experience, which is practically without flaw, that is what keeps me consistently using Android. Microsoft needs to capture the essence of this, along with a great App ecosystem that can grow with getting developers engaged with the UWP.
    06-08-2017 11:34 AM
  15. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    For me the reboots signal that they don't know what they want, they keep releasing one half arsed solution after another. If there is a vision it's repeatedly thrown out and replaced with a new one. Instead of polishing and perfecting what they have they keep bringing one buggy solution after another, because it can't be different with anything new, it takes a while. They keep switching how one programs for the platform, which keeps alienating more and more developers, because there's a lot of work to achieve the same thing in a new idiom and no reward. They may get it right in the end, but maybe nobody will care by then.
    It's a sign of a company with multiple divisions that backbite and at war with each other. It's always been the M.O. with Microsoft. The only rock solid things are Office/'big' Windows and now, Cloud-server.

    Xbox? They seem as if they're part of an entirely different company, which is why I suspect that long term, Nadella sells it off to a Samsung, LG or Huawei.
    ZantReve likes this.
    06-08-2017 11:44 AM
  16. AZTonyUSA's Avatar
    All I'm asking for is they just make an Android phone with the Windows live tiles or a Windows phone that can use android apps. Is that so hard.
    Scienceguy Labs likes this.
    06-08-2017 06:40 PM
  17. etphoto's Avatar
    All I'm asking for is they just make an Android phone with the Windows live tiles or a Windows phone that can use android apps. Is that so hard.
    ?? U want an Android phone there are plenty to choose from, don't need MS making yet another one.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    nate0 and Drael646464 like this.
    06-08-2017 07:08 PM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    I'm still a bit confused by the CShell, hopefully Dan or Jason can clarify. They're mentioning that it will only run UWP, does that mean that it's just a shape-changing version of Windows 10 S, without the ability to run .exe/x86 programs when connected to a laptop or docked, that is also not upgradeable to Windows 10 Pro? And what happens to the x86 desktop apps that were ported to the store using the desktop bridge but don't resize well for a device with a small screen. How does CShell work with these ported programs?
    What? No this is windows 10m, that's running cshell. It runs full UWP only just like existing win10m.

    The "new phone and OS" is Andromeda. It's a branch of win10m, that works with Andromeda's unusual form factor (detachable clamshell dual screens).
    nate0 likes this.
    06-08-2017 08:19 PM
  19. Drael646464's Avatar
    All I'm asking for is they just make an Android phone with the Windows live tiles or a Windows phone that can use android apps. Is that so hard.
    What, from the software companies point of view, would be the advantage of this? How would it promote UWP? How would it promote the windows store? How would it help consoles, HoloLens, hub, surface or desktop?

    People keep suggesting this but it makes ZERO sense. Introducing even just android app compatibility crippled bb10 OSes blackberry store. If you want and android phone, get and android phone.
    a5cent and Scienceguy Labs like this.
    06-08-2017 08:22 PM
  20. Drael646464's Avatar
    Apps are certainly important as nobody wants to use an OS that lacks their very familiar experience...In all honesty that is what put me off of Windows 10 Mobile the most. Secondly, the OS issue is important because if the basics don't work well or require consistent hard boots to get working...There really isn't any point in using such a frustrating OS. Granted Microsoft is working on a constant improvement model, I just want them to have a stronger base and continue to develop it even further. As all those small, niggling problems can really be a huge turn off for a general user.

    As for Android, being a long term user I can say that a lot of those small niggling problems are gone in the recent Nougat iteration...Not to say Android doesn't have larger issues, as we all know there are bigger issues that are being ironed out. It's the everyday experience, which is practically without flaw, that is what keeps me consistently using Android. Microsoft needs to capture the essence of this, along with a great App ecosystem that can grow with getting developers engaged with the UWP.
    IF they could iron the google out of it, that would fix the majority of the issues :P
    06-08-2017 08:25 PM
  21. Drael646464's Avatar
    Honestly, for Microsoft to have any hope at all in the mobile space...They need to have an OS that is functionally stable and just works from the get go. This is why I couldn't stomach using a Windows device as they've always had stability issues. The people in my social circle that do have Windows devices, regret it as they've always experienced such problems that you've listed. This is why iOS and Android are killing it in the market because of their general stability and usability.

    There is no point in rebooting the Mobile OS if the basics aren't even mastered and then expounded upon with useful consumer facing features. Microsoft needs to let this bake in the oven for a while, do rigorous testing and make sure everything works smoothly as possible before even attempting to reboot their Mobile push. Microsoft also needs to get developer's confidence back in order to make their next push into Mobile successful. As Microsoft need more UWP on their store, the most popular consumer apps that general consumers use on a regular basis to even hope for a chance to attract them. While I do use Android, I've eyed Windows Mobile but found it severely lacking as all of my favorite apps have no presence on Win 10 Mobile.
    I honestly wouldn't know people had such issues if I wasn't part of this website. My phone functions flawlessly on the latest insider preview.
    Apparentlly the early build were bad. Fortunately that's over now. Only remaining issue is people using old revision devices on new OS revisions - that's never going to be pretty on any PS, but there are SO MANY out there doing this in windows. My advise - get yourself a new phone. 4s, 950 can both be had for cheaper than the used to go for. Close enough to the price of a 650. Plus the 950 runs windows10m well (whereas the 650 might struggle with some apps due to its 1gb ram)
    mattiasnyc likes this.
    06-08-2017 08:26 PM
  22. DavidinCT's Avatar
    While I agree that MS has not done well in the mobile market, they are far from clueless on how to run a business. That's a bit of an exaggeration.
    Also, what is promition?

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    I didn't say a business, I said business and marketing SOMETIMES, meaning they are clueless in the mobile world. They are so out of touch with the consumer.

    All in all, they got what they wanted. The Microsoft name is known for business applications all over the world, from Office, to Windows to Server applications (Windows server 2012, 2106), etc. For the most point they are very respected for this with business. Any IT professional knows, don't touch a Microsoft product when it's first released, Wait 6 months before using it but, other than that good.

    Xbox is the one excuse from this but, the gamer community is a whole different type of customer.

    The thing is, when you get a teen who looks at Microsoft and they are NOT a gamer... Microsoft is not cool or hip. Apple always does those HIP looking ads, so guess who looks better ?

    Microsoft is just so out of touch with the consumer... They need to market to NON gamer in a hip way and maybe they can get someplace..

    When it comes to mobile marketing or reaching the consumer, they are clueless.
    Chippy757 likes this.
    06-08-2017 09:02 PM
  23. sd4f's Avatar
    Also to add, their retrenchment is the reason they will struggle capturing consumer market again but probably Ms is not targeting that, they will go after enterprises.
    With Nokia, they inherited solid distribution networks in many countries and MS simply abandoned them, just look at surface devices, despite their popularity their availability is limited outside US. It works for them because they leave the 2in1 markets to OEMs but same strategy will not work with mobiles. They need first party hardware and they need it to be available in most of the regions that formerly embraced WPs
    I agree. I really think that basically abandoning the platform and trying to win them back is an awful strategy. The thing is, only targeting enterprise is even a bad strategy. I'm of the opinion that consumer attitudes have created significant ruptions in enterprise space. This is why iphone dominates across the board. It's the fashion accessory as well as the business phone. It has reached that status where it's so pervasive that enterprise goes out of its way to accommodate iphones. After all, even Nadella uses one.
    techiez and Blomsternisse like this.
    06-08-2017 10:15 PM
  24. techiez's Avatar
    Do you know for certain they lost their channels? Maybe they just do not have them available for anything other than mobile?
    Well yes, in SE Asia Nokia was big, they had their support centres in every corner of the city, priority showrooms etc. MS inherited them but never converted / expanded them to include other MS products, I think Nadella always wanted to lose the Nokia baggage right from start, so he let them go.
    hidayat225 and nate0 like this.
    06-09-2017 02:04 AM
  25. vinuonline's Avatar
    Cshell is really nothing new. Android has had adaptive scaling of apps, depending on screen size and resolution, forever. It's the reason why some apps look fine on a typical Android phone, yet look kinda of funny and not optimized on a tablet screen.

    hahaha funny, cshell has nothing to do with app scaling, Cshell is for OS scaling or adaptive UI for different devices. UWP is the platform which will make use of the App scaling.
    06-09-2017 02:33 AM
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