02-11-2015 01:44 PM
59 123
tools
  1. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    We all know how dismissive Google is towards MS' everything but specially W8/8.1 and WP and how they are dumping their products all over the place so people stop using MS' portfolio. Browsing the web I came up across a comment on an article on Pocketnow Apple knows how to sell tablets, and Microsoft is learning fast | Pocketnow that caught my attention and that I believe will test MS and Google relationship but specially how Google will look at W10.

    Here is the quote:
    "I think this is an interesting dynamic. Part of the problem is for folks that live in Google, there isn't a lot of app options available out of the store for Windows 8 right now. But hypothetically speaking, let's say there are 100 million Win10 users in the first 90 days (which I think being free is totally possible), what is Google going to do? Continue to dismiss the OS? They need to make their options better and easier on Windows. I think we can safely say consumers aren't going to migrate to Chromebooks en masse."

    I focused on the blue part of the quote because if this happen Google 'dominance' will suffer big time.
    1 - What do you guys think?
    2 - Now that MS will finally persuade Universal apps to the full. Can MS cite on the terms that all apps will transfer automatically to the other devices after 6 months after release on any of the Systems [PCs, tablets, Xbox or Phone]? Or It will be better let it to the developers?
    jmshub and Jazmac like this.
    02-08-2015 02:35 PM
  2. Harrie-S's Avatar
    1 Not sure if they can force Google but how knows.
    2 Not all apps will be universal because for example a camera app is dedicated for a phone so "useless" on your pc.
    But if an universal app is made it should be available for "all" devices at launch (or at least within a week or so)
    02-08-2015 02:43 PM
  3. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    If the adoption of W10 is as massive as MS hopes, Google won't have other choice than go where the users are. .
    jmshub likes this.
    02-08-2015 03:14 PM
  4. realwarder's Avatar
    If the adoption of W10 is as massive as MS hopes, Google won't have other choice than go where the users are. .
    There are already 70 million plus Windows phone users. Not a small number. Google doesn't appear to care anything today.

    Even on Windows with 100's of millions of devices they haven't created apps other than the search one. Very poor support. They care more about the platform failing than supporting customers. I don't see that changing overnight.
    TechFreak1, a5cent, MSARUL and 3 others like this.
    02-08-2015 03:23 PM
  5. Southgarden116's Avatar
    I also don't think Google will change its position suddenly. It will take some time until Windows 10 will get to the masses, at least a year or so, until we have a big number. Then we will see, if the phone numbers will go up too. 70 million is nothing compared to the other OSs. And I want to know how many of these phones are actively in use, and how many unique WP useres we have. So in the end of next year maybe Google will think of W10 apps. All in all, everything looks promising and good so far, but I'm still skeptical about the success and BIG turn.
    02-08-2015 03:28 PM
  6. rhapdog's Avatar
    1 Not sure if they can force Google but how knows.
    2 Not all apps will be universal because for example a camera app is dedicated for a phone so "useless" on your pc.
    But if an universal app is made it should be available for "all" devices at launch (or at least within a week or so)
    Cameras are quite common on tablets, convertibles, laptops, etc. Many desktops even have cams on them, and you'd be surprised how many people use some sort of camera app.

    I actually use a mirror app on my laptop if I'm on a trip and need to groom and there are no mirrors available, which, is a "camera" utilization app.

    Also, I know people with a web cam on their PC that use a camera app to take "selfies" with themselves and visiting friends.
    Harrie-S and Laura Knotek like this.
    02-08-2015 04:45 PM
  7. Harrie-S's Avatar
    Cameras are quite common on tablets, convertibles, laptops, etc. Many desktops even have cams on them, and you'd be surprised how many people use some sort of camera app.

    I actually use a mirror app on my laptop if I'm on a trip and need to groom and there are no mirrors available, which, is a "camera" utilization app.

    Also, I know people with a web cam on their PC that use a camera app to take "selfies" with themselves and visiting friends.
    Kind of agree but I am not saying that you do not need a camera app on a PC. The 930 Lumia Camera can record 4K video and needs special firmware so I still think you don't need this for your PC (and it's a Lumia excusive app)
    But maybe a better example is Gestures Beta. I did not see a PC yet with a SIM card and even if they have them I would not pick the PC up and put it against my ear.
    Last edited by Harrie-S; 02-08-2015 at 05:47 PM.
    Laura Knotek and TechFreak1 like this.
    02-08-2015 05:22 PM
  8. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    Well I believe adoption will pick up fast. Many users didn't move to W8/8.1 because the new OS wasn't suitable for PCs and they felt MS abandoned them. W10 is fixing that and many of insiders are PC more than tablet users. W10 is bringing the best of W7 & W8/8.1 to the table and if you look around the only thing more exciting besides the Hololens is the free upgrade from W7/W8 to W10. I have 2 PCs, a laptop, SP1, HP table W8.1 and two WP in my house they all go W10 as soon the OS is ready. W7 critics [with reason] will finally get the OS they want. Plus SP4 is coming as well.
    02-08-2015 05:50 PM
  9. TechAbstract's Avatar
    Windows 10 will bring people to the Windows Store. Apps will be on start menu. Cortana is already right on the task bar. She searches for apps too and give them links to install apps. They should put link to app store everywhere in Windows 10 to bring more people to use apps. Store should not be unpinable in Start Menu. Google will have to make apps if there are too many users.
    02-08-2015 06:00 PM
  10. rhapdog's Avatar
    I did not see a PC yet with a SIM card and even if they have them I would not pick the PC up and put it against my ear.
    Ya got me! I concede. Last time I drink coffee at the keyboard... Spit it right out!
    aximtreo, Harrie-S and TechFreak1 like this.
    02-08-2015 06:53 PM
  11. MACZXMONO's Avatar
    Question: Does Microsoft have some insane rules, something for app devs that makes them not want to create apps for wp(Microsoft owning the app)?? No snap chat ETC.. Which I don't use anyway tho.. Or are android/apple devs paid off? :P
    02-08-2015 07:02 PM
  12. Elitis's Avatar
    Question: Does Microsoft have some insane rules, something for app devs that makes them not want to create apps for wp(Microsoft owning the app)?? No snap chat ETC.. Which I don't use anyway tho.. Or are android/apple devs paid off? :P
    Dev tools for Windows Store Apps are, apparently, still not up to par with Android and iOS. There's also the market share issue (which leads to higher potential revenue), and WinRT limitations.
    02-08-2015 09:26 PM
  13. Visa Declined's Avatar
    I do not see Google creating universal apps for Windows. They'll have the x86 stuff that they do now, but they're probably not interested in Microsoft's 'write once, run everywhere' mantra. Why would you guys care about Google apps and services anyways? Google sucks, remember? I hear it a hundred times a day here, in practically every article or discussion. A person can't even mention they use Chrome on their PC without getting downvoted to hell.
    02-09-2015 12:22 AM
  14. dKp1977's Avatar
    I don't think Google will change its stance towards Microsoft at all. Even if billions of copies of Windows 10 are sold. Google can keep it the way they're doing now. "If you're using Windows, you can always use your browser to use our services. If you want apps, get an Android device."
    02-09-2015 01:46 AM
  15. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    I don't think Google will change its stance towards Microsoft at all. Even if billions of copies of Windows 10 are sold. Google can keep it the way they're doing now. "If you're using Windows, you can always use your browser to use our services. If you want apps, get an Android device."
    That attitude can be really dangerous for Google. And i don't believe Google will ignore more than 100/200 million users just because they hate MS. Xbox has a YouTube app, why? Because, Google main business are ads. And judging by the good reviews of W10 and the one code [universal app] I believe WP adoption will be really good.
    portalfocus and Jazmac like this.
    02-09-2015 02:17 AM
  16. dKp1977's Avatar
    That attitude can be really dangerous for Google. And i don't believe Google will ignore more than 100/200 million users just because they hate MS. Xbox has a YouTube app, why? Because, Google main business are ads. And judging by the good reviews of W10 and the one code [universal app] I believe WP adoption will be really good.
    Consoles are a different topic. Google doesn't have any product to compete there. Nevertheless, Google will sooner or later have to rethink their strategy, but the whether or not they will change their stance is yet in the dark. Like I said, Windows users can just use the browser like they always did.
    Sarmad Khalil and a5cent like this.
    02-09-2015 02:21 AM
  17. MACZXMONO's Avatar
    What am I really missing out on with my 32bit Lumia 930?(SD800) Was this a bad buy and should I sell it an wait for a 64bit windows phone?? Suggestions would be great guys! ;)

    Edit: Like if google or anyone else just made 64bit apps those would just be invisible in the app store right?
    02-09-2015 03:17 AM
  18. hagjohn's Avatar
    I see nothing, so far, in Windows Phone 10 that is a game changer.
    FinancialP likes this.
    02-09-2015 04:43 AM
  19. Praxius's Avatar
    Well I believe adoption will pick up fast. Many users didn't move to W8/8.1 because the new OS wasn't suitable for PCs and they felt MS abandoned them. W10 is fixing that and many of insiders are PC more than tablet users. W10 is bringing the best of W7 & W8/8.1 to the table and if you look around the only thing more exciting besides the Hololens is the free upgrade from W7/W8 to W10. I have 2 PCs, a laptop, SP1, HP table W8.1 and two WP in my house they all go W10 as soon the OS is ready. W7 critics [with reason] will finally get the OS they want. Plus SP4 is coming as well.
    Speaking of Google and the HoloLens, it would be a smart idea for Google to jump on board and get Google Earth and Street View on the HoloLens..... People would suck that up.

    But in reality they won't because then that just adds to the woes for their own VR thingy.... What's it called again... Google Goggles?
    troylytle likes this.
    02-09-2015 04:58 AM
  20. tiziano27's Avatar
    If the adoption of W10 is as massive as MS hopes, Google won't have other choice than go where the users are. .
    Development of consumer apps in Desktop PCs has been dead since 10 years ago. The web browser is the platform in the PC, and Google already dominates with their services. They don't need apps, in fact Chrome OS is just a web browser.

    If Microsoft sells 100 million Windows 10 devices that are used primarily as tablets, that would make a difference, but It's highly unlikely. Surface 3 must be the bestseller Windows "tablet" but It's more commonly used as a laptop.
    Windows 10 is a Desktop OS adapted for the tablet form factor. Windows 8 was a tablet OS adapted for the Desktop and It failed, because nobody wants a Windows tablet.
    FinancialP likes this.
    02-09-2015 06:53 AM
  21. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    Dev tools for Windows Store Apps are, apparently, still not up to par with Android and iOS. There's also the market share issue (which leads to higher potential revenue), and WinRT limitations.
    Definitely not true about the dev tools. Visual Studio 2012+ is *far* superior to the iOS and Android tools.

    It's all about marketshare.
    02-09-2015 07:08 AM
  22. dKp1977's Avatar
    Dev tools for Windows Store Apps are, apparently, still not up to par with Android and iOS. There's also the market share issue (which leads to higher potential revenue), and WinRT limitations.
    You've obviously never seen and used any dev tools at all. Wow.
    02-09-2015 07:27 AM
  23. portalfocus's Avatar
    Actually, what was one of the first thing that came into my mind when watching the Windows 10 Technical Preview: The Next Chapter event. Google just cannot ignore Windows 10 and they know that pretty well. Google Chrome became something just because of the Window's users, otherwise it just would be outthere without anyone to even use it.
    02-09-2015 07:51 AM
  24. 3acres's Avatar
    I find that documentation is the leading factor to whether I use a certain dev tool. Currently when working with eclipse I love the built in javadoc feature. Visual studio has intelisense with C# and etc, but eclipse senses a lot of this stuff too with Java, I just don't know the name they give this feature in eclipse. I like msdn's documentation, but I wish it were built in more with visual studio, rather than me getting errors and having to go "Bing search" it..., also I don't want to code in VB so msdn needs to provide more examples of C# and C++ in msdn, but at least msdn gives examples, Javadoc doesn't give coding examples. So this makes me think that devs may feel like it is easier to develop for iOS or Android due to the massive library of help by other users on third party websites such as tutorials and forums that they can easily get to by doing a "google search".
    02-09-2015 08:13 AM
  25. rhapdog's Avatar
    I see nothing, so far, in Windows Phone 10 that is a game changer.
    Well, so far we've seen nothing but screenshots. Even when the preview is released, it won't be what it WILL be later. The real game changing stuff is "write once, compile for anywhere" type of strategy, though.

    Definitely not true about the dev tools. Visual Studio 2012+ is *far* superior to the iOS and Android tools.

    It's all about marketshare.
    Yes, you are absolutely correct here. The issue with VS 2012+ is that it currently doesn't create apps for iOS and Android, so this brings up 2 problems.
    1. You have to use ONE IDE to create for iOS and Android, then use a DIFFERENT IDE to create for WP. As a retired developer, I always wanted to do everything in one IDE. Remembering functionality quirks across different IDEs just makes you less efficient with both.
    2. The marketshare does not currently make it worthwhile to deal with the pains of using different IDEs, and having to do a complete port to another OS where most of the code has to be re-written.

    Microsoft will be releasing a new version of Visual Studio most likely by Summer. Once released, this version will write and compile for iOS and Android, as well as Windows 10 Universal Apps. While this will help developers that don't want to use multiple IDEs, there still remains the issue of having to port and change a lot of code from iOS/Android to Windows 10.

    Microsoft is working on a SDK for it that will allow writing once, and compiling to all three, which will make porting between platforms a cinch. That will attract developers like fleas to a dog. Once they start writing their iOS and Android apps, and discover how easy it is to press a button and make one for WP, Windows Tablets, Windows PCs, XBox One, Surface Hub, and HoloLens, a great number of develpers will begin to do so.

    Don't expect Google to develop anything for us, though. They think WP will fail without their services, but in the end, Google is going to hurt themselves with this approach.

    The developers who will take longer to convince are the ones that are being "silently strong-armed by Apple and/or Google", where I personally believe that Apple and/or Google may be convincing businesses and developers not to develop for WP recently, because they are afraid of Windows 10. How do they convince? "If you make an app for WP, we'll pull your app from our store, and you'll lose the biggest market share of customers." Is this going on? I don't know, but I think with the way Chase has scolded employees for wanting to talk to customers about why the app was removed/cancelled, because it violated a non-disclosure agreement. I'll bet that agreement was with Google or Apple, because both are unscrupulous enough to try something like that, as illegal as it is. Do illegal things go on in business? If you believe it doesn't, then you're just naive. I'm not saying this happened, I'm just saying that in at least one parallel universe, it could have.
    02-09-2015 08:30 AM
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