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  1. DavidinCT's Avatar
    As reported here...

    Cross-buy will let gamers purchase and play games across all of their Windows 10 devices | Windows Central

    Neat concept, Buy once and play on my phone, tablet and Xbox one, keep all my achievements with me where ever I go and can continue on the road, Cool !

    This can be a good thing (for cross play) but, also a very bad thing. You will start seeing more apps for more money.

    So, normally a WP game, for example, say $1.99, then the Windows 8 game is $6.99, and the Xbox game is $19.99 (if all the same game, this pricing range is not very uncommon right now).

    In this example game, it will cost you $19.99, the more expensive version of it even if you buy it on WP and never had a plan to play it on the Xbox one or Windows 10...

    I think a dev would want to make the most money on their app and would not sell you a $20 game for $1.99

    That could be a very bad aspect of this...

    Am a looking at this wrong, or how will pricing play out, even if I only wanted the WP version and I didn't want the full W10 or Xbox one version ?
    03-04-2015 08:45 PM
  2. yihong kang's Avatar
    I don't think the exact same game can be sold at wp store for $2.00, windows store for $10.00, xbox store for $20.00.

    They may come from the same developer, they may have the similar name, but really different games. Just look at the "Rayman Fiesta". The xbox version is selling for $40.00 (free with gold this month), it is a platform game. In wp store and windows store, there are also "Rayman Fiesta" for $3.00, but they are just endless runner. Games on Xbox and PC are more expensive because of the complexity and higher cost of development (nobody wants to play simple endless runner on console).

    The "universal app" can target any combination of the devices, phone+pc or phone+console or wp+pc...
    For complex and hardcore games, I expect PC+console combo selling for console price ($40-60), on the other hand, simple mobile games, phone+PC+xbox combo selling for mobile game price ($5.00). Especially for mobile games (most of them don't have console option), making it "universal" and available on Xbox will just another option to sell the game for the same price, why not?

    If the developer thinks xbox version is so different, they can also publish it on xbox without being a "universal app" and charging a premium.

    I expect most "universal app" (including all the device" to be free apps with in-app-purchase, like video apps and mobile games. Maybe some platform games, like Halo: Spartan Assault.
    03-05-2015 10:01 AM
  3. harihar akhil's Avatar
    I don't think the exact same game can be sold at wp store for $2.00, windows store for $10.00, xbox store for $20.00.

    They may come from the same developer, they may have the similar name, but really different games. Just look at the "Rayman Fiesta". The xbox version is selling for $40.00 (free with gold this month), it is a platform game. In wp store and windows store, there are also "Rayman Fiesta" for $3.00, but they are just endless runner. Games on Xbox and PC are more expensive because of the complexity and higher cost of development (nobody wants to play simple endless runner on console).

    The "universal app" can target any combination of the devices, phone+pc or phone+console or wp+pc...
    For complex and hardcore games, I expect PC+console combo selling for console price ($40-60), on the other hand, simple mobile games, phone+PC+xbox combo selling for mobile game price ($5.00). Especially for mobile games (most of them don't have console option), making it "universal" and available on Xbox will just another option to sell the game for the same price, why not?

    If the developer thinks xbox version is so different, they can also publish it on xbox without being a "universal app" and charging a premium.

    I expect most "universal app" (including all the device" to be free apps with in-app-purchase, like video apps and mobile games. Maybe some platform games, like Halo: Spartan Assault.
    You really want to pay 5$ for a game which just costs 1$ in other platforms(android).it does not matter every one but me leaving windows phone I don't have a windows 8 PC and no plans to get console.so definitely a loss of money from vault.

    Another ms concentrating on low end tier phones and will these combined prices appeal to any consumer who own this phones?
    03-05-2015 10:30 AM
  4. Grimlock's Avatar
    I think the pricing issue could be a potential problem too. If a lot of developers charge a premium for combo packs then it makes the buy once play everywhere look a lot less attractive.

    If most universal games are freemium then thats not too hot either. I was kind of imagining all of this being similar to blu ray purchases that have the free digital download for mobile (lower res), but I guess it might be more like bluray + dvd combo for $5 more.

    Should we pay more to play the exact same game on a different device? Is it analogous to listening to music on different devices?
    03-05-2015 10:37 AM
  5. Vaibhav Vibhu's Avatar
    The better option will be a option to let you you want the cross over which devices!! And if you buy the Xbox version you get all, if you buy pc version you get pc + phone , and at last if you buy phone version you only get phone version!!
    P.s. Here pc = desktop+ laptop + tablet+ convertibles!!!

    And if you buy hololens version you won't bother about the cost coz you own a ****in hololens!! Yeah! :p
    Avi Anand likes this.
    03-05-2015 10:40 AM
  6. JamesDax's Avatar
    I think the good far out weighs the bad.
    03-05-2015 10:41 AM
  7. yihong kang's Avatar
    "Universal app", is to decrease the developing cost. It is aimed to the developers who don't want to develop several versions of app.

    Think it in this way, if a developer only develop for phone, now his can target pc and xbox at the same time, he doesn't need to sell the app for more to increase his income. Like the addition of ipad doesn't affect the app price for iPhone.

    If a developer would like to charge people more for PC version vs phone version. They can simply release two apps, they don't need to increase or decrease the price. Developers aren't stupid, if they charge more, that means they spend more to develop it and it worth the premium.

    The extreme case will be, developer can release a "universal app" for $10.00, a separate PC version (doesn't scale for phone) for $5.00, phone version (doesn't scale for PC) for $1.00. It should be easy enough for them to do it. Just name it "XXX", "XXX for PC", "XXX for phone".

    I do agree, if the "universal app" has the option to choose the combination, it will be perfect.
    Praxius likes this.
    03-05-2015 11:12 AM
  8. Jas00555's Avatar
    You people completely misunderstand what being a Universal app means lol. It's talking about the development of an app, not the distribution. A developer could make it $1 on phone and make you pay $3 on the tablet. It doesn't HAVE to be pay once, use everywhere, only if the developer wants to. I mean... You didn't see the minimum price of an iOS game jump to $6 just because the game is available on iPhone and iPad.
    03-05-2015 11:18 AM
  9. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Current universal games are the same price on PC as they are on the phone. Serious games will not have a phone version because they need a full PC to run. They will just be on PC and Xbox, so it seems reasonable to buy on PC and get a slightly cut down version (lower graphics etc. to allow it to work with console h/w, limited controller options etc. you know, the usual stuff) to play on your TV. I don't use consoles and I can see that console owners may be peeved at having to pay the same as a PC owner only to get a cut down version, but that is no different to now as I believe console owners often comment that they feel their games are too expensive for what they get when compared to PCs. The prices can't easily rise because of competition from Steam and GOG.
    03-05-2015 11:47 AM
  10. DavidinCT's Avatar
    You people completely misunderstand what being a Universal app means lol. It's talking about the development of an app, not the distribution. A developer could make it $1 on phone and make you pay $3 on the tablet. It doesn't HAVE to be pay once, use everywhere, only if the developer wants to. I mean... You didn't see the minimum price of an iOS game jump to $6 just because the game is available on iPhone and iPad.
    Yea, you don't see this on iPhone or iPAD, but, this is Windows Phone, were free apps on iOS is $2.99 on WP... so those don't count on this.

    This topic went off hand, this was ONLY about universal apps, Not if a dev decided to make different versions of the app for each platform.

    This discussion is ONLY for Devs who make a game a universal game, where it will play across all devices. I would BET that the price for the app, on any device (where you order it from) will be the highest price to compete with W10 or Xbox game.

    This could lead to seeing apps on your phone, that are universal apps, cost $20 (AGAIN EXAMPLE), because it's competing with all 3 devices, in this case you have to pay $20 for the app, EVEN if you will only use it on the phone.

    Current universal games are the same price on PC as they are on the phone. Serious games will not have a phone version because they need a full PC to run. They will just be on PC and Xbox, so it seems reasonable to buy on PC and get a slightly cut down version (lower graphics etc. to allow it to work with console h/w, limited controller options etc. you know, the usual stuff) to play on your TV. I don't use consoles and I can see that console owners may be peeved at having to pay the same as a PC owner only to get a cut down version, but that is no different to now as I believe console owners often comment that they feel their games are too expensive for what they get when compared to PCs. The prices can't easily rise because of competition from Steam and GOG.
    You wana bet on this one ? Microsoft is really pushing this universal apps on this and you don't think they are going to try to make their AAA titles universal apps? I would be shocked if we didn't see something like Forza Horizon 3 in a universal app.

    They will have scaling level, where it will drop it down to what the phone will support, so it will be the same game, just not the same level of detail in the game.

    I just don't want people to go into shock here, OH, Forza Horizon 3 for Windows phone ? Oh, wait, it's $59.99.....(because you know it will be shown in the marketplace on all 3 devices)
    03-05-2015 02:43 PM
  11. Jas00555's Avatar
    Yea, you don't see this on iPhone or iPAD, but, this is Windows Phone, were free apps on iOS is $2.99 on WP... so those don't count on this.

    This topic went off hand, this was ONLY about universal apps, Not if a dev decided to make different versions of the app for each platform.

    This discussion is ONLY for Devs who make a game a universal game, where it will play across all devices. I would BET that the price for the app, on any device (where you order it from) will be the highest price to compete with W10 or Xbox game.

    This could lead to seeing apps on your phone, that are universal apps, cost $20 (AGAIN EXAMPLE), because it's competing with all 3 devices, in this case you have to pay $20 for the app, EVEN if you will only use it on the phone.
    Why would they do that when they could just price it differently on each market? If you buy it for $2 on the phone, a developer could easily charge you again and make you pay $20 on the Xbox for that copy. It's that you CAN pay once and play anywhere, not that the developer has to do it that way.
    03-05-2015 02:49 PM
  12. AndyCalling's Avatar
    They couldn't make me do any such thing, and that's why it is better for them to use universal to increase screen time for their game with the customer. That builds future sales. I suspect the number of people that regularly buy the same game twice just to play on TV are few. There many easy ways to project your PC to your TV anyway. Universal gaming apps used between PC and Xbox are a convenience, but not worth a fee to the customer. The benefits to the publisher are significant, but are indirect.
    03-05-2015 06:17 PM
  13. Draude84's Avatar
    Good question
    03-10-2015 11:24 AM
  14. Praxius's Avatar
    Ok ok folks, while it seems one person in here "gets it" most of everybody else doesn't quite get it.

    Universal Apps are meant to be Universal Apps. The developer makes one App and it works on all devices.... Phone, Tablet, Xbox, PC, etc.

    This is a benefit to developers to make apps for the Windows 10 environment because at present, Windows Phones and the Windows 8.1 PC Store are not doing too well and they don't have a lot of prospective buyers for their app in each separate store.

    But when you put PC's, Tablets, Convertibles, Laptops, Mobiles and Xbox's together under one roof, that's a **** tonne of potential buyers for your app/game.

    If a developer has to break their app down to use graphics and specification suited for an Xbox, PC, Tablet and Mobile, etc.... And then charge different prices for each one because of this, then it's no longer a universal app.... Is it?

    This then means that a developer needs to coordinate their app to suit the lowest common denominator.... In most cases that would be low end tablets and phones.

    Example:

    Angry Birds. The developer makes the game work perfectly fine for Windows 10 for Phones.... It is then available to be functional on tablets and everything above.

    But, you ask, How do you prevent the game from looking all low quality and crappy on a 60" Smart TV while being played through an Xbox?

    Well now I head into the speculation part of things, but I would assume that when a developer is making their app, they have a section where they adjust graphical settings based on the device being used.... Similar to how PC games have a graphics section you adjust based on what your system can handle.

    The only difference is that these settings are automatic based on the device sending the request to download the app.

    It's not really that much more work for the developer to do as they'd only have to setup 4-5 graphical settings while the code and everything else remains the same.

    Pure PC games today require developers to have many different settings, like resolution, blur, bloom, brightness, contrast, texture quality, anti aliasing, aspect ratio and so on..... And they all have to work together properly based on users setting these things up themselves and on countless types of PCs using countless types of hardware and OS combinations.... All the while trying not to bug the game up or crash.

    In the end, developers could set one price for this one universal app.... And because the available market for their app is huge compared to one isolated market (Windows Phone Store or Windows 8 PC Store, etc.) the consumer's costs for the app would either remain around the same price as todays apps or end up even less.

    Would there be some $20 apps out there in the future?

    Perhaps, but that would depend on how much is in the app, what you can do with it / features and who's releasing the app.

    Currently there are already a few apps in the Windows Phone store that are pretty close to $20 and they're certainly not Universal..... Like Final Fantasy.

    But will the majority or at least half of the apps get this expensive?

    I highly doubt it and believe it would be only a small handful of apps in the overall collection... And they would have to be some top rate, highly popular apps that do some magical crap that people would pay for.

    Finally, one also has to keep in mind the developer's competition in the store. If more developers jump into the store and more apps are piled into the collection.... And you try and sell your app for $20 while everybody else is selling theirs at $1.99 - $3.99, then not a lot of people are going to be buying your $20 app.

    You will be forced to drop your price or pack up and leave..... Or market the crap out of your app and try to convince people it's worth the money..... But if you have the collective population of users from PC's, Xbox, Tablets, Laptops, Convertibles and Phones (which is a hell of a lot of people) you selling your universal app for $2 will pay off ten fold than selling at $20.

    Let's say you sell your app for $20 and only 10 people worldwide buy it in the first week. That's $200 in your pocket.

    Now let's say you sold it for $2 and because it's cheap enough for everybody to try, you get 1000 people worldwide buying it in the first week. That's $1800 more than what you would have had otherwise.... And you get more word of mouth and user reviews on top of that vs. The 10 people who bought it at $20 and half the reviews are from people complaining it's too expensive.

    The word of mouth and user reviews from those 1000 people would spread much father and faster than those 10 people who paid $20.... Which means more people trying out your app, which means more money in your pocket.

    You can see which pricing I would choose.

    The Universal App thing will not be ideal for every kind of app/game out there and I see this type of app function worming with such games like Angry Birds, Airport City, Monopoly, Tetris and the like..... It will not work with such games as Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc.

    At best, those games will allow streaming and they will be able to be played between Xbox and PC's.... But not tablets or phones (thus not universal)

    So to sum up, Universal Apps will no doubt be geared towards low intensity type apps like Facebook/Twitter/XBox Live/Sonic Dash/Angry Birds.

    You will not see Far Cry 4 or similar like games being played on a mobile or anything other than a PC or Console.
    Last edited by Praxius; 03-18-2015 at 06:48 AM.
    03-18-2015 06:35 AM
  15. SnailUK's Avatar
    As many have said, im sure they'll use the iphone/ipad model.

    You have an app on iphone, that can be brought and used on iphone, and ipad. There is a seperate ipad app, charged seperately, but has bigger graphics, and isn't compatible with the iphone.

    W10 will be similar, you'll be able to buy you WP app, and use it on PC/xbox, but you'll be encouraged to buy the seperate PC/xbox version of the app.
    03-18-2015 08:08 AM
  16. excalibur1814's Avatar
    Until Windows 10 is here we're just wasting our time thinking about this stuff. If you don't like the price of something then don't buy.
    03-19-2015 06:10 AM
  17. alexander0311's Avatar
    i didnt have enough time to read everything in this post. but my guess is the problem with pricing which you raised here is also a factor for only xbox to pc (eventually phone too) streaming capability right now. anyway, playing a phone game on a TV via xbox is also a no point. lets stay where we are and get the xbox to pc and phone streaming first. its easier and cleaner. after that we can look at how to feedback ms to make the vice-versa possible AND good, too.
    03-19-2015 08:31 AM
  18. DavidinCT's Avatar
    As many have said, im sure they'll use the iphone/ipad model.

    You have an app on iphone, that can be brought and used on iphone, and ipad. There is a seperate ipad app, charged seperately, but has bigger graphics, and isn't compatible with the iphone.

    W10 will be similar, you'll be able to buy you WP app, and use it on PC/xbox, but you'll be encouraged to buy the seperate PC/xbox version of the app.
    Ugh, incorrect. The point that I am trying to get across here is what Universal Apps are. As Microsoft has QUOTED " Buy once and use across all your devices". Making it easy for the dev to create one product that will scale down or up to each device.

    You buy it once in any store (WP, Windows store, or in some cases Xbox) and you can use it across all devices. If you want to use Universal Apps feature, you cant have a app for WP and a different app for Windows using this model.

    Let's give a modern example, the Duck Takes game, it's a Universal app, it works across WP and Windows (8.1-10), this app is $9.99 although it's a fair deal if your using it on Windows but, if I was ONLY going to use it on Windows Phone, it would be a VERY expensive title. A good game for WP is between $0.99-4.99, this would be DOUBLE the price.

    I'm just noting the possible flaw with this, sure there is a lot of advantages to it but, there are no question problems with it, and number one is double the price of an app at least if your ONLY going to use the WP version...

    and also Xbox live achievements (before if you got 2 different copies you would get the achievements 2x, not any more)
    04-08-2015 01:21 PM
  19. sinime's Avatar
    Well, it's still up to the dev... They can still make a "universal" app, but charge separately for phone and tablet versions. They don't have to adopt the buy once across all devices philosophy.
    04-08-2015 01:28 PM

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