10-12-2017 05:29 AM
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  1. Bobvfr's Avatar
    As stated so many times I like Windows and Windows Phone, my personal set up is a 950XL with dock, Surface Pro 4 with dock and this is my tablet/laptop/desktop, an Xbox One as the base for my entertainment system.

    I subscribe to Office 365, Xbox Live, Groove, Skype number and subs.

    Similar setups for my wife and family

    I do plan on buying the Xbox One X maybe just after the holidays. The main reason being 4K, I want to be able to watch 4k through the Xbox One (Netflix etc.) and improved games graphics.

    But then I cannot help but see a period of retrenchment from Microsoft products and services for me, this may not come into effect until midway into 2018 as my setup and my 950XL is currently working OK, but come next year I will probably have to jump ship on the phone front.

    If I do this, I know I can get MS products, software and services on Android or Mac systems (Already doing this on my work Samsung).

    But why on earth would I continue to give MS money for services when the competition is often better, certainly fleeter of foot when it comes to newer ideas. And more importantly integrated to the ecosystem. I currently use Groove because it is an MS product on MS/Windows devices and certainly not because it is the best music player out there. The same would go for most of the stuff I use.

    Anyone else planning a period of retrenchment from MS products and services unless MS manage to get their finger out and fast?
    09-30-2017 07:21 AM
  2. Jason Angle's Avatar
    Regardless of the phone front I will keep Office 365, Email, Calendar, and Contacts just because Microsoft has them so well integrated into cross platforms. If they fail to announce or release an ultra-mobile device with telephony in the next few months I will go over the fence. Sadly Cortana will give way to Siri as their is no way to override that. Groove will probably flip back to Pandora (Pandora Premium is the same cost and features as Groove, Plus just standard Pandora without ads for half). Skype will fall to Facetime, although I will keep that account active, just without the paid services as I already replaced failing WM devices for the family members I video call. The more I look at it, the easier that transition will be if it comes.
    09-30-2017 08:11 AM
  3. Elky64's Avatar
    I've already retrenched on the Mobile front although still own three Windows Phones (probably be tough giving those away), highly unlikely I'll ever return no matter what Microsoft does. Slowly moving away from some of their services too.

    For me personally, even if MS did get their act together, it would take several years of them proving they are truly committed (this time) and we're done with that game.

    On the PC front, I'm seriously contemplating distancing myself there too although it probably won't be 100% due to some long-term integration's.

    Nothing Microsoft does these days garners much interest from me, stark contrast from a year or two ago, and I'm sure we are not alone.
    09-30-2017 01:07 PM
  4. TgeekB's Avatar
    I've already retrenched on the Mobile front although still own three Windows Phones (probably be tough giving those away), highly unlikely I'll ever return no matter what Microsoft does. Slowly moving away from some of their services too.

    For me personally, even if MS did get their act together, it would take several years of them proving they are truly committed (this time) and we're done with that game.

    On the PC front, I'm seriously contemplating distancing myself there too although it probably won't be 100% due to some long-term integration's.

    Nothing Microsoft does these days garners much interest from me, stark contrast from a year or two ago, and I'm sure we are not alone.
    I did the same thing. Even got a 2013 MacBook Pro to use and I doubt I’ll go back to my Windows laptop. Got into a conversation on here with someone who, when I said the MacBook performed better, started telling me why. You probably need more ram. You probably have an outdated whatever. That’s the point though, I really didn’t need to worry about that much. Even a 2013 Apple machine performs well. I just want my life to be easier. I’m too old to care about bells and whistles, just work!
    09-30-2017 04:06 PM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Very few people bothered to get upper echelon Windows phones and even fewer got top-shelf PCs. Macs are generally above average kits at their base models and just go up from there. For what's necessary to run iOS, Apple puts a very good product together. I'm sorry but if your Windows experience is a Lumia 640 and a $250 Insignia (Best Buy) laptop, you're going to be on a forum like this one belly-aching till the cows come home.

    I switched away from my Mac in 2009 with a very well equipped Windows 7 laptop. My wife switched away from OS X about 2 years ago. We still have the Mac but it's useless since I can't upgrade past 10.5 (PowerPC CPU). The laptop I used to leave OS X? It's still kicking today and it's my wife's primary PC. It runs W10 Pro 64 and even though we bought a newer laptop a few months ago, it spends most of its days with the clamshell shut.

    My point is this, berating Windows (phone or PC) with subpar hardware while saying Macs "just work better" is not exactly putting apples to apples (no pun intended). Similarly equipped Windows laptops run every bit as sweet as Macs.
    09-30-2017 04:45 PM
  6. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    In terms of Microsoft services, I've switched a few.

    I use Spotify and Google Play Music instead of Groove.

    I downgraded from Office 365 Home to Personal. I'll see how much I use Office in the next year, and see if it continue subscribing in another year.
    aximtreo likes this.
    09-30-2017 06:49 PM
  7. TgeekB's Avatar
    Very few people bothered to get upper echelon Windows phones and even fewer got top-shelf PCs. Macs are generally above average kits at their base models and just go up from there. For what's necessary to run iOS, Apple puts a very good product together. I'm sorry but if your Windows experience is a Lumia 640 and a $250 Insignia (Best Buy) laptop, you're going to be on a forum like this one belly-aching till the cows come home.

    I switched away from my Mac in 2009 with a very well equipped Windows 7 laptop. My wife switched away from OS X about 2 years ago. We still have the Mac but it's useless since I can't upgrade past 10.5 (PowerPC CPU). The laptop I used to leave OS X? It's still kicking today and it's my wife's primary PC. It runs W10 Pro 64 and even though we bought a newer laptop a few months ago, it spends most of its days with the clamshell shut.

    My point is this, berating Windows (phone or PC) with subpar hardware while saying Macs "just work better" is not exactly putting apples to apples (no pun intended). Similarly equipped Windows laptops run every bit as sweet as Macs.
    My laptop was a Dell, not top of the line but more middle of the road. It’s 3 years old running Windows 10.
    My MacBook is the Pro model running Sierra. I bought it used and probably wouldn’t pay full price for a new one, so you are correct.
    The trouble is the Windows laptop performs poorly, no matter what level it is. That gives me a bad experience and turned me to the MacBook.
    I think that’s what you were saying in your first paragraph: Apple designs their own products so you know what you’re getting. With Windows there’s everything from cheap to excellent, which gives you a variety of experiences. Some people mock Apple’s control of things, but this is one example of where I and others prefer it.
    09-30-2017 07:12 PM
  8. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Mac OS runs as well as anything out there and Windows 10 is amazing considering its age. I’m sure it would run as well as Mac OS if Microsoft had a more stringent minimum spec. But because it has to run on garbage hardware to keep it affordable there will be hiccups along the way. That’s the price you pay for 90% market share.
    09-30-2017 08:41 PM
  9. Elky64's Avatar
    Very few people bothered to get upper echelon Windows phones and even fewer got top-shelf PCs. Macs are generally above average kits at their base models and just go up from there. For what's necessary to run iOS, Apple puts a very good product together. I'm sorry but if your Windows experience is a Lumia 640 and a $250 Insignia (Best Buy) laptop, you're going to be on a forum like this one belly-aching till the cows come home.

    I switched away from my Mac in 2009 with a very well equipped Windows 7 laptop. My wife switched away from OS X about 2 years ago. We still have the Mac but it's useless since I can't upgrade past 10.5 (PowerPC CPU). The laptop I used to leave OS X? It's still kicking today and it's my wife's primary PC. It runs W10 Pro 64 and even though we bought a newer laptop a few months ago, it spends most of its days with the clamshell shut.

    My point is this, berating Windows (phone or PC) with subpar hardware while saying Macs "just work better" is not exactly putting apples to apples (no pun intended). Similarly equipped Windows laptops run every bit as sweet as Macs.

    No doubt, don't disagree older or subpar hardware can be problematic. Our main gripes though, going by my persona experiences, is that Windows itself STILL can't reliably decipher what went wrong when it does, the update process still seems very archaic, uninformative, and slow. When you're greeted with blank/black screens, or error codes which have as many resolves as the day is long it makes troubleshooting pretty painful and drawn out. Finding it very rare these days, when something does go awry with our Windows PC, that an hour or two of attention will suffice in fixing it.

    In my world, if troubleshooting a vehicles problems were similar to that of a PC we'd be up s**t creek without a paddle. At least OBD/2 codes give me a sense of direction, or an area to start my troubleshooting. Windows 10 on the other hand, leaves me scratching my head on far too many occasions w/o any idea where to begin.

    None of my equipment is new per se yet wouldn't put it in the overly outdated category either. Most are running a Core i5 or better, 8GB DDR3 or better, SSD blah blah blah. Strange thing is, my ancient Toshiba laptop (2007 era), with Core 2-duo and only 4GB Ram handles Windows 10 better than some of my other gear that's 8-9 years newer, least problematic too where cumulative updates are concerned.

    Also own a mid-2010 MacBook Pro (i5/8gB/SSD) that we are using today whilst running latest Mac OS, High Sierra. When purchased in 2010 didn't go overly well upgrading from Snow Leopard to Lion (sluggish), a fresh install resolved this. Then we sequentially moved onto Mountain Lion, Mavericks, Yosemite, El Capitan and Sierra. The other day attempted to install High Sierra but was met with a firmware error w/system returning me to Sierra, but not until it automatically applied a fix. Our second attempt went off unscathed, working great. With all these upgrades, the installs kept me well informed of its progress throughout, something I'm finding Windows fails to do in most instances.

    Bottom line... I am more than content enough using Windows 10 when it is working, the constant barrage of "Fix Or Repair Daily's" upon each cumulative update is what has me fed up. Maybe Microsoft should bring back the dreaded BSOD, at least then we had something to go by.
    Last edited by Elky64; 10-01-2017 at 09:35 AM.
    10-01-2017 12:48 AM
  10. Elky64's Avatar
    I did the same thing. Even got a 2013 MacBook Pro to use and I doubt I’ll go back to my Windows laptop. Got into a conversation on here with someone who, when I said the MacBook performed better, started telling me why. You probably need more ram. You probably have an outdated whatever. That’s the point though, I really didn’t need to worry about that much. Even a 2013 Apple machine performs well. I just want my life to be easier. I’m too old to care about bells and whistles, just work!
    That's my big problem, Windows 10 isn't making my life any easier with those cumulative updates that keep wreaking havoc. I'd have thunk as time went on the PC would have gotten smarter in the diagnostic sense but not finding that to be the case. We are so done dealing with it, and cringe whenever an update is about to ensue. There's several of my machines I've just stopped using because of this.

    As an example - In 3-4 years of owning non-Windows devices (owned/own many) we can count on one hand, and still have a digit to spare, as to how many times I had to intervene after something went amiss. On the Windows front, that number is at least 3-fold in this year alone, includes Windows Mobile too. So stands to reason why I am so fed up with Microsoft's latest OS and everything that goes with it. And that's where I'm at, it should just work without all the hassle.
    10-01-2017 01:27 AM
  11. TechFreak1's Avatar
    @Bobvfr.

    I have, hence my long winded post on what I feel Micrsoft must do to ever regain my custom as a gamer, prosumer and enthusiast. They have a long way to go before they will get any form of advocacy.

    Prior to Micrsoft retrenching from the consumer space, I was planning on getting multiple family 365 licenses to cover every single member of my family but after they announced they would do so I decided to wait and when we started seeing contradictory statements and actions. I am no longer going forward with that and will just get people to use office online as after all the basic office is free on phones and is good enough for most people.

    However seeing what Phil spencer and et al have done with Xbox, I am hopeful they will turn this around.
    Elky64, Laura Knotek and dgr_874 like this.
    10-01-2017 04:40 AM
  12. matt john2's Avatar
    Windows 10 just isn't as good of an OS or perhaps Microsoft is really that terrible? Heres why: I have 2 Surface 3 in our household a device designed and made specifically by Microsoft to showcase their OS. I would expect it to be well optimised but the years of ownership proved me wrong. Even to this day I still experience a lot of keyboard or touch hangs and malfunctions where the device needs to be restarted until the next malfunction happens again, it's an endless cycle of BS. Wait what? I thought the whole idea of Surface lineup is for Microsoft to have a full control from manufacturing to the optimization of the drivers so the Surface devices are well optimised? I don't see it happening. Even though Apple is ripping people off at least they optimised the $h!8 out of their products so it's not highway robbery all the time.
    10-01-2017 04:50 AM
  13. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Maybe I have been lucky, I don't seem to have had many of the problems that a lot of you have had with Windows, and I actually like Windows 10, and I really like the way pretty much every thing is in the same place, on my phone, PC's, tablets and I would go so far as to say the Integration between W10 on PC and phone is better now than it has been.

    I have also been lucky with apps, OK I don't use a lot, but I still have my banking app and just about every app is on both phone and PC (With the obvious exceptions that are device specific).

    My problem is the future, unless MS get on with improving the following:

    Telephony (And I don't mind how they do it) so that I can for example, port my mobile number to my MS account and then take calls on all my devices (They promised this and then RETRENCHED on the idea).

    Improve Skype massively and give us the choice to use Skype or separate apps like phone and messaging (They retrenched on this as well).

    Bring out a small PC that I can fit in my pocket with always on data (We can argue about semantics).

    Make a commitment and really stick with it, so many promises that lead to dead ends, so many changes of strategy, I understand that when you are pushing at the boundaries of technology sometimes things don't work out, but the ride since Windows 8 has been laughable at times (Well I am sure its made a few cry if not cry with laughter).

    Sell the stuff properly.

    Figure out how to deal with international markets like others seem to manage, it is awful that Cortana and Groove are just not available world wide (Sure there are other things).

    Stop with crap statements like "Well we couldn't see the point of being third, so we pulled out of the race", and then wonder why the whole UWP experience is now in doubt, causing so many of us to doubt why we use MS products, I really want and Xbox One X, and I will 99% on the way to buying one, but I am not 100% sure its a wise move, I want a commitment to both games and an entertainment system, but you could easily see MS dropping half of that strategy and you can only **** off people so many times.
    TgeekB, aximtreo, Elky64 and 9 others like this.
    10-01-2017 05:35 AM
  14. kaktus1389's Avatar
    Anyone else planning a period of retrenchment from MS products and services unless MS manage to get their finger out and fast?
    I was very close to switching from my Lumia 950 but was not sure which OS to go with but at the end kind of decided to stick with my 950 as long as it works.

    Unfortunately I had microphone issues with my 950 and it is now being repaired (still in warranty) so I got me a backup phone (Huawei P8 Lite) and I must admit it just doesn't work for me. I did download all MS apps for Android and while Arrow launcher is way better than Huawei's default it still just isn't my thing. Even if there are all the apps in the universe available in the Play store, I just don't like the UI and inconsistency - I am a simple man with simple principles about design and UI that pleases me, and Windows 10 Mobile offers it.

    Believe it or not but atm I am looking to exchange the Huawei phone for a 640/640XL or practically any other Lumia that can be upgraded to Windows 10 Mobile as I had several issues with this phone:
    1. music player I downloaded form Play store is very unreliable and the Huawei stock music player is even worse
    2. Alarms don't work as expected - sometimes they won't ring
    3. Previously mentioned UI issues
    4. Android YouTube app is just no longer usable for me after using myTube for about a year - come on Google, I sort of understood why you didn't make proper app for Windows Phone but why make a crippled app that doesn't even support playing music in the background for your own OS?
    5. Facebook and Messenger app; I never thought I would say something like this but as far as I am concerned design of Facebook and Messenger on Android makes me vomit, even if those apps are more functional than UWP apps they are still a mess.

    So at this point I am 100% sure I want to stick with Windows Phones as long as possible, even if I highly despise Microsoft's approach to their own mobile platform, especially after what Nadella said about the world not needing a third phone OS. When they die I will probably go with an iPhone as Android clearly is not my thing.

    I will however no matter what stick to Office 365 and OneDrive subscription, and Windows 10 as my desktop OS, and when the time comes I probably will buy a Windows portable device (laptop or 2 in 1), but when MS releases their next "ultra-super-duper-hyped-andromeda-surface-phone" I definitely won't buy it.
    10-01-2017 11:07 AM
  15. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Sorry about this, but with the announcement that MS are killing Groove, I will not buy the Xbox One X I really wanted and I will never ever buy another MS product, I have struggled to explain Skype to my wife, luckily she never got it, so both our Skype numbers and subscriptions will be cancelled, our Xbox live accounts will go, and then our Office 365 will be cancelled when they run out next year.

    I cannot plan anything with this company, so another retrenchment on their behalf has lost them at least 5 customers from my family.
    10-02-2017 02:54 PM
  16. Jason Angle's Avatar
    Another reason MacOS runs so well, the actual OS is UNIX (Mac BSD) and much leaner. The driver store is much smaller when you can tailor build the kernel for each built device. Hence the "Apple Tax" that causes the same hardware to be more expensive for an Apple device. Most of my garbage hardware that is pending retirement gets turned into some sort of Linux machine or another. But @fatclue_98 is exactly right on the hardware.

    That being said, I had been discussing in other threads about "re-entrenchment" myself on a mobile device. Found my breaking point, got this wonderful congrats on the new Spotify account if you want it email. Just paid to renew for the year my Groove account (along with the extra four months free, how are you going to offer four free months right before you cut off service in three? Seriously Microsoft?) Going to start shopping for an iPhone...
    Vectrex71 and fpostrow like this.
    10-02-2017 08:05 PM
  17. Elky64's Avatar
    Sorry about this, but with the announcement that MS are killing Groove, I will not buy the Xbox One X I really wanted and I will never ever buy another MS product, I have struggled to explain Skype to my wife, luckily she never got it, so both our Skype numbers and subscriptions will be cancelled, our Xbox live accounts will go, and then our Office 365 will be cancelled when they run out next year.

    I cannot plan anything with this company, so another retrenchment on their behalf has lost them at least 5 customers from my family.
    Nothing to be sorry about, I'd be pi**ed too.

    I saw the writing on the wall in early 2015 and it's been a steady decline since then. Now that they are hitting below the belt for many hard to deny the fact Windows Mobile is done. Sure support until Jan 2018 but what will they toss aside between now and then?
    Vertigo X and Jackie Earley like this.
    10-02-2017 09:51 PM
  18. matt john2's Avatar
    Good for you. Investing on a centralized subscription services, though convenient as it can be, isn't really the thing to do specially if it's from a company with history of abandoning their products or projects and eventually their own loyal costumers. I got fed up of being tossed around by MS so I did a little pay back and converted every software and OS we use to non Microsoft/Windows as much as possible and never looked back.
    Elky64, TgeekB, theefman and 4 others like this.
    10-03-2017 12:32 AM
  19. Andreas Sofogiannis's Avatar
    All these years I am huge fan of Microsoft. I am located on Greece. So I am using Windows 10 on surface, had 950xl, xbox one, xbox one s, (preordered xbox one x), had band 1 and 2, using office 365, xbox live, buying lot of video games, using edge , bing and lot other things which I don't remember. So I spend a lot of money for Microsoft. BUT I noticed a very important thing..... Service like Bing, band etc never came to my country even If I am waiting years now...

    Instead of that Google search here is awesome, Google maps is awesome, I use iPhone 7 with all the staff fully support on my Banks, Smart Home, Siri is working perfect, Apple watch is awesome, I can order movies, books from iTunes, I have Spotify / apple music/Netflix etc etc

    What I want to say is that Google and Apple have an awesome strategy expanding globally and instead of those services I keep support Microsoft..... I really don't know why I am doing this.... But it looks like in a while I will stop supporting them since they don't even care about their users.... I don't know how they think they will succeed (on Consumer area) but I believe that Satya shows exactly what are the plans to him. At first seeing that to be honest I don't trust them at all....

    Seriously if there was a possibility to sign lot of users so Nadella leaves I will definitely do that :) . But the board likes to see the shares getting up because of their business. But what is wrong here is that Microsoft is not cool anymore (actually never was) and that is the problem. I always fought with others about why they hated Microsoft so much.... but now either fans going to hate Microsoft more. I hope sometime that guy leaves because he is going to get Microsoft IBM v.20 and I really hate that.....
    10-03-2017 09:47 AM
  20. anon(10324754)'s Avatar
    Yes. Now Groove is gone I'm going to invest elsewhere for my needs.
    ndowney77 likes this.
    10-03-2017 09:51 AM
  21. AccentAE86's Avatar
    Just got an android phone. Hate it, but at least there is support. It's a bad sign when the people like us, who are willing to live through a tortured playing field for love of the platform, are leaving. If we are leaving, then nobody else will be willing to try. I just hope they have some kind of trump card waiting to be used to win the game in the near future. Because I'm really not enjoying android.
    10-03-2017 09:51 AM
  22. mutant 9's Avatar
    Their recent show of support for consumer devices and services has me looking to move platforms. I had a band 1&2, canceled, w10 mobile canceled. My wife had an issue with her 950 with Ms complete and she had to go to 3 ms stores to find one that had a windows phone in stock. I had an issue with my 950xl and had to go to another state to find a store that had a hp elite x3 in stock. I Hanes been using groove pass since it was zune pass now that is gone. Was gonna get the HK speaker when it came out but doubt it will see the light of day and now with groove out and the Alexa integration of Cortana I see no benefit to a Ms speaker.

    I purchased a Nokia 6 a few months ago and like the battery life apps and access that Android brings. But don't love the UI or its inability to read texts in the car. I loaded it up with Ms services Outlook, office, groove, Cortana Bing etc. Now I think I will only keep outlook and office and get rid of the rest. No benefit over Google services, less integrated than Android services and not as well supported.

    Trying to figure out when the best time to retire my HP Elite will be. Just got it a few weeks ago but with the recent announcements by Gates and Nadella I feel stupid using it. Why should I use it when the CEO and President do not.

    I was listening to an interview on NPR with Nadella and he said he regretted focusing on new offerings and completely abandoning current user base instead of building a bridge to bring them along. I think this was in reference to WP. Hopefully they will reassess their position in the consumer space soon as it appears their current actions are killing all momentum and good will they built up over the last few years. They need to do something to stop the bleeding.
    TechsUK likes this.
    10-03-2017 09:56 AM
  23. Ojai Weber's Avatar
    Registered to reply bc this is my exact predicament now. I use my gaming pc rig for all my work related needs (I work from home). Have a pro 3 but need to upgrade bc battery life is horrible. Tried an ipad pro 12.9" but couldn't get any of my work done effectively...but in doing so I saw the glory of ios/osx (bc I borrowed wife's old iPhone 6s). So I tried one last shot at the matebook e but another horrible battery life. That is returned. I am currently pricing out a total transition to mac/apple especially with groove going to Spotify. I use office365 for work...but they have apps for everything else that are superior in many ways on other operating systems. And even there my colleagues are looking to jump to Google Apps for work. Soon, MS will only be a gaming company to me it looks like. It's a shame. They always seem ALMOST there in so many categories only to never meet the potential.
    10-03-2017 09:57 AM
  24. Richard_Indy's Avatar
    To me, this must be like being handed Divorce papers. Something that I don't want, something I was fully invested in, and the scary thought of how things are going to work/not work together in the future. I have three Xbox One's, Two Surfaces with two different docking stations, Four fully operational windows phones that the family uses with 2 Continuum docking stations, Groove Music Pass, Office365 subscription, SEVERAL Movies paid for through the Xbox service. This is Sad, mad, and angry really
    aximtreo likes this.
    10-03-2017 09:58 AM
  25. pallentx's Avatar
    I'm pretty much out. Microsoft is a business company now, like IBM. They still have Xbox and some gaming interests, but I expect over 5 yrs that will be gone too. I like Windows. I really liked Windows Phone, but they have less and less to offer me now as a consumer. I'm interested in wearables and home automation. There are options that support Windows, but its a second class support, and how long will it last?

    For now, I have two Windows PCs, but I use them less and less. Most of my time is spent on my Surface, but that could pretty much be a cheaper iPad with better battery life and a much more robust ecosystem of touch oriented apps. Maybe I'll keep one PC going forward for occasional photo video work and a couple of games. Of course at work, I'll be on Windows, but that's not fun or exciting.

    It was a good run Microsoft. You made some cool stuff that I enjoyed very much. From Palm-sized PCs to Pocket PCs to Zunes, Tablet PCs and Surface. You just couldn't sell it for some reason.
    10-03-2017 09:59 AM
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