1. TechFreak1's Avatar
    What is the biggest flaw of Windows 10, you might ask.

    In my opinion it's Microsoft all or nothing approach.

    If you disagree, please share your thoughts as it's an open forum or if you have any ideas, share them too!

    I'll explain, some of you may recall watching one of the Windows Central podcasts where Daniel Rubino confirms that the telemetry data shows Tile usage in the start menu is very, very. very low.

    Now, there is a simple reason for that.

    The tiles are now buried within an interaction method as opposed to being just there a classic case of Microsoft's approach of all or nothing approach.

    1) You have to click the start button or press the windows button to launch the start menu to see your life tiles.

    2) You can have live tiles at visible at a glance constantly (tablet mode) but that means you lose your desktop and the it's actually a inefficient method of interaction of a non touch display (I'll explain shortly). So the bigger the display, the greater the inefficiency as you have spend longer dragging the mouse towards a tile to launch it.

    On a touch screen you can reach and tap the tile.

    So I have a "40 inch TV that I use as a monitor, due to the use of the grid locking mechanism of the tiles i would have to go the top left hand corner to launch it.
    In this scenario (a common) one for me - click on the notification centre icon on the system tray to launch it.

    I have most frequently used application on the task bar, so I can slide my mouse across as it's more efficient.

    However If I had my start screen full screen and had to launch an application this happens.


    start-menu-full-screen-.jpg
    The app list is the very top left hand corner and it will take me a few more seconds then if If had my start screen set like this:

    start-menu-non-full.jpg
    You may say big deal, but if you are an older user who is not techsavy it may take you longer than someone who is tech savy. Case in point, a few years ago I was being assessed for a work role and I was asked to demonstrate how I would prioritise my work flow and my desk. It took my assessor who was not tech savy a little longer to replicate what I did.

    In addition through teaching others how to use a PC / Laptop I used my PC as teaching environment because if they can navigate on a large 40" screen then it would easier for them to navigate on a smaller screen.

    People often remarked they found navigating the large 40" display tiresome.

    Now we get to the heart of the matter.

    tablet-mode.jpg
    This is tablet mode on a 40" TV Screen.

    From the top to first tile, there is enough space to pin 4 small tiles but you cannot pin 4 tiles as you are confined to the middle layer. Nor can you pin an tile between two the small tiles next to the large spotify tile and the mail wide tile and the small audible tile as that is a tile group boundary.

    Now I want to use live tiles but it means:

    1) I lose my custom taskbar with pinned applications except my custom toolbar unless I enable "show app icons". Which many users don't know about. But that exposes a flaw how the snipping tool is handled as you can't use window mode, rectangle mode and full screen mode with crashing back to the start screen and even then this occurs.

    Snipping tool flaw:

    snipping-tool-flaw-2.jpgsnipping-tool-flaw.jpg
    As you can see if you are quick enough you can get the snipping tool actually capture itself capturing the screen - albeit just the background. Sometimes instead of crashing you can take a screen grab including the task bar. But good luck with that, you have to pretty damn quick. (Yes, this is being abit overly pedantic but that's just me and my habits from testing CRMs and applicaitions. You notice all the little things... so if you're looking for work, stay away from testing applications. You'll have less agro to worry about ).

    2) I have to use the applist icon to open up the app list where sometimes pressing esc doesn't work

    full-applist.jpg
    3) I have lost access to my desktop

    4) I lose the ability to minimise the browser

    no-minimise-browser.jpg

    Unless I click the back button, where sometimes I cannot cycle back between the browser and desktop using the back button. So I need to click the task view button.
    taskview.jpg
    You can however minimise win32 applications.
    Attachment 138382

    5) I lose the ability to close an application opened in a virtual desktop as you cannot open a virtual desktop in tablet mode which is understandable as you wouldn't use tiny icons on a tablet. But to have live tiles enabled permanently as opposed to toggling back and forth by opening the start menu to see your live tiles you have to use tablet mode.

    6) I lose the ability to snap applications into grids.

    no-grid-snapping.jpg

    These just a few notables but they are all ecompassed under the biggest flaw with Windows 10 - Microsoft's all or nothing approach.

    I want to lose live tiles, I really do but as a pro user I lose all the basic functionality that I use on a daily basis.

    Now the simplest solution to all my above issues - don't use tablet mode BUT that means I cannot use live tiles to glance at information.

    Solution:

    The solution to this to enable users to pin tiles anywhere on the desktop and enable users to actually detach the tile portion of the start menu and pin it where ever they want.

    So we would have something like this, where we have icons and pinned tiles:

    mock-up-2.jpgmock-up-3.jpgmock-up-4.jpgmock-up-4a.jpg

    With virtual desktops we can have one desktop just for multimedia or social media use etc.
    mock-up-5.jpg

    As you can see there is so much more flexibility with this approach as opposed to the all or nothing approach. The Mock ups are just the simplified form of how I work day to day, I have a virtual desktop just for virtual machines, one for my assignments, another for work and another for general web browsing.

    With the pinned start menu approach, it doesn't offer that much flexibility by itself but it's better to have an option as it's the lazy approach and some just like the simple one click method. However with the combined approach...

    This doesn't mean you can't extend

    mock-up-6.jpg

    You have greater control and flexibility over your work flow.

    In essence the detached tile portion of the start menu acts as a self contained window for your live tiles, therefore enabling you simple drag and drop tiles to your desktop or back on to the detached start menu or allow you to simply replicate the tile. To prevent a user getting confused a simple indicator at the bottom can show how many instances are pinned and which desktop(s). These will be customisable options via settings to allow the user to minimise visual clutter.

    Over all this will result in a greater useage of live tiles.

    In addition allowing users to replicate the tile allows for greater flexibility as for instance as heavy outlook.com user I can have all my emails pinned to the desktop on virtual desktop. I don't want to be in a scenario pinning all my email tiles in that desktop removed my pinned work email tile in my work virtual desktop.

    I'm aware by allowing multiple instances of the detached portion of the tiles can result in more time debugging and more code. However at the cost of productivity, I would choose productivity and user efficiency over time saving during development.

    Additionally when opening a new virtual desktop, you can have two use case scenarios. You have one case where opening an empty virtual desktop creates just that an empty slate, which means the user has to open the start menu, detach the tile portion and drag it where ever they want, in my view this inefficient - abhorrent interaction method as it's not intuitive either.

    Or You have the start menu overlayed where it was last positioned in the previous virtual desktop. This is much more efficient and intuitive.

    To prevent the tile portion moving you can have two global settings (on and off) - one snap and place in each individual virtual desktop (on) or reflect postion across each virtual desktop (off).

    Conclusion:

    Tablet mode needs a tonne of work, I understand why it's been left to the wayside - based on telemetry people are not using lives tiles as much. But basing design fundamentals on telemetry is the most flawed, naive and moronic approach. Case in point the dedicated bing button on smartphones devolved into a glorified QR scanner because that's what most people were doing with the scanning function and small percent were using it scan barcodes of products and books. Thus these users are now neglected and have lost use of function that they paid money to use by buying the product.

    Plus it doesn't take into consideration all of the above variables involved as well as user emotion. That cannot be quanitified let alone collected without serious breach of individual space and privacy. As you would need to analyze a tonne of emotional data, facial data, speech patterns, contextual data through always on microphones, front facing cameras and geofencings through GPS usage

    Therefore you will never the complete picture using the telemetry and data analytical approach.

    You cannot simply say oh people don't use live tiles so we won't focus on them, when the interaction method is fundamentally flawed. Therefore your telemetry data is flawed and any design principles derived from that said data will be have very basic flaws.

    As it doesn't take into account user engagement through muscle memory / habits -windows 95 to windows 7 - where the primary interaction method was the start menu for most people when it came to launching applications.

    Because if that was taken into account, the very notion of clicking on the start menu or pressing the windows key to "glance" at information falls flat on the moronic idea pile.

    As it simply does not work.

    Ergo (in laymens ending) up with data that well is simply stupid.

    TLDR, the biggest flaw in Windows 10 is the under utilisation of live tiles as they are buried within the start menu when there is a much better solution.

    If anyone has any better ideas, please feel free to share your thoughts.
    Last edited by TechFreak1; 12-19-2017 at 06:01 PM.
    Guytronic likes this.
    12-19-2017 03:56 PM
  2. TechFreak1's Avatar
    12-23-2017 03:27 PM
  3. TechFreak1's Avatar
    12-23-2017 03:27 PM
  4. TechFreak1's Avatar
    12-23-2017 03:28 PM
  5. TechFreak1's Avatar
    12-23-2017 03:28 PM
  6. GreaseMonkey255's Avatar
    I think the biggest flaw of Windows 10 is their suggested OTA update/upgrade system as I explained in a previous forum thread:

    First, there is no way to check the integrity of the downloaded files before they are installed to the computer. We cannot be certain that there is an internal file hash check. The only way to be sure is to download an ISO file that can be hash checked for integrity. Second, I always do a in-place upgrade after the new upgrade. This can only be done with an ISO file. If I don't, remnants of the previous build seem to linger in the new build, causing bugs and issues with the latter. Why doesn't Microsoft openly advertise this in-place upgrade feature? Probably half of the inquiries people post on Microsoft forums and this forum about upgrade problems can be solved by doing an in-place upgrade. Even downloading an ISO is tricky because Microsoft does not post file hashes on their Media Creation tool page (which frequently downloads incomplete ISO's anyway). The ISO hashes can be found on the MSDN Subscriber Downloads site, which is not directly accessible from the Media Creation tool page and is somewhat misleading unless you know what you're looking for.

    Why doesn't Microsoft advertise ISO upgrades for PCs? It's not like PCs are limited like phones are. It would save everybody a lot of trouble. Either that, or at least document in-place upgrades a bit more and directly provide a way to check the integrity of downloaded files.
    You can't have a half-working OS after a build upgrade. Plus, Microsoft recently discontinued the MSDN Subscriber Downloads page, so file hashes cannot be retrieved at all.
    Last edited by GreaseMonkey255; 12-23-2017 at 06:27 PM.
    TechFreak1 likes this.
    12-23-2017 06:14 PM
  7. TechFreak1's Avatar
    I think the biggest flaw of Windows 10 is their suggested OTA update/upgrade system as I explained in a previous forum thread:

    ...

    You can't have a half-working OS after a build upgrade. Plus, Microsoft recently discontinued the MSDN Subscriber Downloads page, so file hashes cannot be retrieved at all.
    You raise a few good points, however there are work around albeit you do need Windows 10 Pro for most of said work arounds. Suchas using group policy editor to set windows update to "notify to download and notify to install" in conjunction with the windows update hide tool, you can remove (most of the time) buggy windows update drivers for example.

    Or you can use tools like the ultimate windows tweaker from sites like thewindowsclub.com

    In regards to the MSDN subscribers page, the portal seems to be still up and running however as I am not a subscriber I cannot check myself to confirm. As I was unable to find anything pointing towards a shut down of the download page.
    Guytronic likes this.
    12-26-2017 01:51 PM
  8. GreaseMonkey255's Avatar
    You raise a few good points, however there are work around albeit you do need Windows 10 Pro for most of said work arounds.
    ...
    In regards to the MSDN subscribers page, the portal seems to be still up and running however as I am not a subscriber I cannot check myself to confirm. As I was unable to find anything pointing towards a shut down of the download page.
    Yes, a workaround for normal Windows Updates would require additional tools for people running Windows 10 Home. However, normal Windows Updates usually do not create the level of instability that build upgrades through Windows Update create. This is where in-place upgrades become necessary. As for the MSDN subscribers page, previously you would not need an existing subscription to see the ISO file hashes for all Microsoft products. You just needed to sign into the portal with your Microsoft account. Now, it redirects to the Visual Studio homepage where you are restricted to viewing your subscriptions only.

    Here is a screenshot taken from Google Images of the previous unrestricted MSDN Subscriber Downloads Page:

    msdn-subscriber-downloads-2015-07-29-09-57-10.jpg

    And here is my screenshot of the current restricted MSDN Subscriber Downloads Page (redirected to the Visual Studio portal). I currently have the Visual Studio DevEssentials Subscription, so those are the only downloads that I can see:

    msdnreplaced.png
    TechFreak1 likes this.
    12-26-2017 03:04 PM
  9. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Yes, a workaround for normal Windows Updates would require additional tools for people running Windows 10 Home. However, normal Windows Updates usually do not create the level of instability that build upgrades through Windows Update create. This is where in-place upgrades become necessary. As for the MSDN subscribers page, previously you would not need an existing subscription to see the ISO file hashes for all Microsoft products. You just needed to sign into the portal with your Microsoft account. Now, it redirects to the Visual Studio homepage where you are restricted to viewing your subscriptions only.

    Here is a screenshot taken from Google Images of the previous unrestricted MSDN Subscriber Downloads Page:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And here is my screenshot of the current restricted MSDN Subscriber Downloads Page (redirected to the Visual Studio portal). I currently have the Visual Studio DevEssentials Subscription, so those are the only downloads that I can see:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It looks like they are creating tier based subscription model and therefore you are only seeing downloads that are within your subscription.

    I agree the change is jarring however it's understandable given the current trajectory Microsoft is on - one of short term growth where ever possible.

    In regards to the Windows in-place upgrades, I agree however it's a nuanced issue as there are an insane number of hardware configurations for Windows and given the scale of the install base combined with the vast array of hardware configs, there are bound to be issues. Thus the larger the install base, the greater probablity of reported errors.

    Especially now that Microsoft has fired their programmatic testers during the major rounds of layoffs, the fall creators update is the most visible example of over stretched developers and resources.

    Therefore all in all in the grand scheme of theme of things, in my opinion doesn't represent the biggest flaw of Windows 10. As there are practical and also impractical user based solutions.

    There is no user based solution for Microsoft's all or nothing approach, to be honest it's not isolated to Windows 10. They always have a knee jerk reaction, for instance with WM6.5 to Wp7.x they completely disregarded the enterprise features and went all consumer focused with Wp 7.x and same with Wp8.0.x until Wp 8.1.x and WM10.

    The advanced functionality of the search button before becoming the dedicated button for Cortana, was locked to the USA only. But since many people didn't use the advanced functionality, we all got given a glorified QR reader as that's what most people in the US were doing. Also another example of the flaw principle of decision making based on telemetry data.

    Microsoft band, they couldn't get a flavour of W10 to run on the latest prototypes, hence the entire team got disbanded.

    Windows 8 when launched had no start up tutorial to explain what to do for desktop users, hence the massive backlash. A knee jerk reaction of an engineers bubble - "oh the users will know what to do because we know what to yourselves".

    Then the feedback of users from those in the WM10 preview programme, instead of addressing the concerns and issues, they just kicked off all the users - under the guise of having a "decent experience for all users". Also some gave really honest criticism, I know I was one of them - as I had used Wp8.x alot as a consumer and a enterprise (somewhat) user.

    Microsoft's history is full of instances of knee jerk reactions and a all or nothing approach.

    Which is why the telemetry data for live tile usage is ridiculously low.
    Guytronic likes this.
    12-26-2017 06:29 PM
  10. GreaseMonkey255's Avatar
    Thanks for your reply. I see where you're going. Just to give my input on your issue, I believe (I could be wrong) the live tiles were always meant for quick references only. That is why the tile telemetry data is low and the tiles exist in the start menu. Data intended for more than one reference exists within the apps themselves and the action center. Your mention of "...Because if that was taken into account, the very notion of clicking on the start menu or pressing the windows key to 'glance' at information falls flat on the moronic idea pile," is true, but it doesn't take into account the present climate of the Internet of Things. The tiles' intended motion is similar to flipping out your smartphone and quickly checking the lock screen for notifications. The Internet of Things (or as I call it "Google for President") revolves around smart devices and notifications, not data, being accessible at a moment's notice. This is what all smart devices accomplish, including smartwatches and smart glasses. Windows 10 is just becoming accustomed to this climate. What you're looking for is to bring back something similar to Windows 7 desktop widgets, where user data is visible all the time. I don't think Microsoft would enable tiles to be pinned to the desktop, since they are not intended to display data all of the time. I think Microsoft should design their own unique widgets for every app (like their Microsoft Launcher for Android). In this way, they would display the data that you're looking for and not look like tiles (too boxy to be aesthetically pleasing). However, this would become very similar to the Action Center. Maybe a floatable Action Center would work (I'm just throwing ideas out there). Personally, I would like to see Windows 10 capable of having different sets of icons on every Virtual Desktop (like Linux has). Therefore, the virtual desktops would become "virtual workspaces."
    12-26-2017 08:38 PM
  11. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Thanks for your reply. I see where you're going. Just to give my input on your issue, I believe (I could be wrong) the live tiles were always meant for quick references only. That is why the tile telemetry data is low and the tiles exist in the start menu. Data intended for more than one reference exists within the apps themselves and the action center. Your mention of "...Because if that was taken into account, the very notion of clicking on the start menu or pressing the windows key to 'glance' at information falls flat on the moronic idea pile," is true, but it doesn't take into account the present climate of the Internet of Things. The tiles' intended motion is similar to flipping out your smartphone and quickly checking the lock screen for notifications. The Internet of Things (or as I call it "Google for President") revolves around smart devices and notifications, not data, being accessible at a moment's notice. This is what all smart devices accomplish, including smartwatches and smart glasses. Windows 10 is just becoming accustomed to this climate. What you're looking for is to bring back something similar to Windows 7 desktop widgets, where user data is visible all the time. I don't think Microsoft would enable tiles to be pinned to the desktop, since they are not intended to display data all of the time. I think Microsoft should design their own unique widgets for every app (like their Microsoft Launcher for Android). In this way, they would display the data that you're looking for and not look like tiles (too boxy to be aesthetically pleasing). However, this would become very similar to the Action Center. Maybe a floatable Action Center would work (I'm just throwing ideas out there). Personally, I would like to see Windows 10 capable of having different sets of icons on every Virtual Desktop (like Linux has). Therefore, the virtual desktops would become "virtual workspaces."
    Fair points, however the live tiles are just an element of the UX therefore on IOT device they can be disabled. Plus the whole premise of Windows Core and Project Andromeda is that you can choose what "modules" of windows you want to run on the device.

    Plus with headless devices, the UX can be displayed when a display is detected through plug and play for troubleshooting. Generally here there technician always carries a device that is able to run "offline" diagnostics where the device is powered on but in a "isolation" mode. As solely relying on the plug and play method for trouble shooting display... is not fool proof, such as if there is partial circuit board damage. You wouldn't be able to run effective diagnostics on device so you would need a seperate tool that you know is functioning correctly.

    In regards to the widget method, it doesn't work as you still fall into the same scenario as before but this time you would need to re-familiarise users with new forms of navigation. One of the primary reasons why Windows 8 on desktops was met with such a backlash.

    Widgets lend themselves well on touch based environment, but with the mouse and keyboard it doesn't work. It's far too inefficient in terms of interaction and in terms of code, as you would also need to create a transitional period or branch out the "display code" either to choose the live tile or widget to display information. You could have both but that increases debug time and has a knock on effect on resources.

    Resource economy is why UWP works, it simplifies code and coding hours required whilst creating an environment where apps are sandboxed. Which results in greater security and UWP also enables you to target other subsections of the platform with minimal code. Therefore the balanced solution between security and functionality albeit dependent heavily on the Win32 API transition to UWP.

    Either way you look at it, the widget methdology doesn't work as you have to take into consideration AR/VR/PWA and possible growth points that may arise in the future.

    Code unification is where Apple is also going and so is Google, as I have stated in my other threads as that is the next logical growth point in terms of profit creation.

    As the simplest method to increase your net proft is to reduce your wage bill, code unification allows you to simplify code, reduce coding hours therefore reducing the number of operating systems needing to be maintained in extension lower number of developers required. (In regards to Apple there is another factor in play, investor confidence as they need to show profit growth YoY as smartphone sales are going to plateau at one point. So they have to cut down somewhere and diversify their portfolio -i.e apple music, smart or self driving cars etc. The Iphone X is also another play but it only buys them sometime).

    However you still need testers, as is clearly shown from the fall creators update mess which directly stems from over stretched developers and lack of programmatic testers.

    The simple premise of anything is the circular economy, everything is a cycle and thus interconnected.
    Guytronic likes this.
    12-27-2017 06:28 PM
  12. TheNet Avenger's Avatar
    I get the frustrations, but there are several features that you are overlooking that specifically address the problems/issues you have.

    Specifically, many of the features are not 'all or nothing' - one quick example is you can enable the 'full screen' start menu without using tablet mode.

    This one setting alone fixes your concerns with the lack of minimizing and the 'tablet mode' snapping, etc.

    I often use the 'full screen' start menu on Desktop, and when walking away, hit the Windows key so I have all the Tile information visible and available.

    The problem with putting 'tiles on the desktop' is they easily get obscured, where hitting the Windows key to show the full screen start menu is always on top and can dynamically go away.

    I agree there are a lot of UX items of Windows 10 that could use some really good input, but before that happens, it is important that current users are aware of the current features available to them.

    Another option for some users like yourself, would be to use 'ToolBars' that you can customize or even point to the 'Program Files' folder to replication the 'start menu' of Windows XP-7.

    Some users also like to take advantage of the aspect ratio screen space and put the TaskBar on the side of the Desktop, instead of the bottom.

    There are a lot things like this, that are already built in and offer quite a bit of customization.

    Another thing to remember is that you can add additional 'launchers/shells' to Windows, even replacing Explorer.exe as the default shell. I know a lot of users that have a Mac like Dock or Next like Bars, etc. There are a LOT of 3rd party software that adds features to Windows.


    (I hope I caught the point of the post, and I agree that discussion on UX is something that Win10 still needs. My team has a lot of ideas that will just 'smooth' thing out without even requiring major changes.)
    01-12-2018 10:11 PM
  13. TechFreak1's Avatar
    I get the frustrations, but there are several features that you are overlooking that specifically address the problems/issues you have.

    Specifically, many of the features are not 'all or nothing' - one quick example is you can enable the 'full screen' start menu without using tablet mode.

    This one setting alone fixes your concerns with the lack of minimizing and the 'tablet mode' snapping, etc.

    I often use the 'full screen' start menu on Desktop, and when walking away, hit the Windows key so I have all the Tile information visible and available.

    The problem with putting 'tiles on the desktop' is they easily get obscured, where hitting the Windows key to show the full screen start menu is always on top and can dynamically go away.

    I agree there are a lot of UX items of Windows 10 that could use some really good input, but before that happens, it is important that current users are aware of the current features available to them.

    Another option for some users like yourself, would be to use 'ToolBars' that you can customize or even point to the 'Program Files' folder to replication the 'start menu' of Windows XP-7.

    Some users also like to take advantage of the aspect ratio screen space and put the TaskBar on the side of the Desktop, instead of the bottom.

    There are a lot things like this, that are already built in and offer quite a bit of customization.

    Another thing to remember is that you can add additional 'launchers/shells' to Windows, even replacing Explorer.exe as the default shell. I know a lot of users that have a Mac like Dock or Next like Bars, etc. There are a LOT of 3rd party software that adds features to Windows.


    (I hope I caught the point of the post, and I agree that discussion on UX is something that Win10 still needs. My team has a lot of ideas that will just 'smooth' thing out without even requiring major changes.)
    Thanks for the reply, the full screen start menu option I missed off as I would incur a bsod when ever I used the toggle. So I was waiting to get around to fixing it / it fixed itself before I updated my thread - hence the reserved posts (after all I do have a failing motherboard), I found things just start working after awhile given time and patience. I chalked it up me imaging the o/s initially from my laptop and later forcing a GPT install through a work around method as that option never worked properly. Then I encountered the same issue on other desktops and laptops, so I figured it must be related to WaaS model however I'm not going to lambast Microsoft / developers for things that I cannot prove and recreate issues without fault.

    Like my Lumia 930 for example it randomly stopped working properly, after awhile the display just gave out and now today it's working fine except the sim slot is not working.

    As you mentioned it and I thought I'd check the option and it works. Perhaps it's a GPU driver issue, I do not know. Fortunately now we can prevent driver downloads from Windows Update, that has been the bane of my existence as it has caused for too many issues with laptops. The most infuriating issue is that the laptops just randomly turn off as in audibly shut down with no fan movement and when turned again they boot straight into where they were before and on a ssd it's pretty instant whereas on a mechanical drive it depends how heavily fragmented the drive has become along o/s files optimisations (placed on the outer ring of the platter). Some cases a clean install works, for me personally it hasn't so I just chalked it up to my luck if anything.

    However there with the full screen start menu there is still the issue of dead space at the top in the start menu and a full screen application menu which is fine for a touch screen but on a 40" TV being used as monitor not so much. For me it's not much of an issue (but it is still cumbersome on a large screen) as I often have two mice plugged into my PC, one to use left handed and the other right handed. One is wired and the other wireless, this way I can use my PC however I need to depending on what I am doing. Yes, it's excessive but when you damage your limbs you realise how reliant you become on one side of your body. So you either wallow in misery or adapt.

    I understand what you are referring the tiles getting obscured if placed on the desktop, I am not asking that this would replace the current method but augment it. This way there is always that flexibility and user choice. This would also address the low usage telemetry numbers, I'm fully aware that it creates another paradox - which is why to address that I suggested a floating and persistent start menu (detached) so when you press the windows key+shift up it pops up to the surface.

    The reason why it would windows key + shift up, it's a logical notation you are shifting the floating start menu above all windows (thus making it easier to explain to the average joe) and it prevents key mapping issues as well as complaints from users who like having the windows key open the start menu / app list. Also to prevent obscurity, you can have the start menu snap to a either side or top or bottom of the screen. I know I would happily snap my favourite apps to on side of the screen, for example when I want to listen to some audiobooks and browse the web I load a particular virtual desktop with the pinned audiobooks or snapped start screen (a docked start screen of your favourite apps) load the audiobook I want and browse the web.

    You can also implement a dynamic carousel effect in so you can flick through the tiles with your finger or a scroll bar. Also with a setting users get a choice between a system wide docked start screen or custom individual start screen dock per virtual desktop. It would use the same short cut key of Windows Key + Shift up to hide or bring up.

    In regards to third party toolbars and custom shells, I found they are more troublesome then useful then again my PC usage is not the norm that hence why I don't really talk about these. I do use my own set of custom toolbars along with associated keyboard shortcuts.

    I hope this provides clear context and possibly answers some questions you may have.
    Guytronic likes this.
    01-14-2018 11:00 PM

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