Current devices WILL NOT get Apollo.

[based_graham]

There is no doubt current devices will get Apollo. In order for Windows phone to gain marketshare and Nokia to gain investor trust relations they need to cover all price ranges.

There is no way they can have WP8 dual core phones priced at 0 to 49$. The specs you see today are WP8 low-mid range handsets and will probably get refreshed as WP8 tango phones.

There is no way an OS cant run on 1.4GHZ snapdragon with 512MB of ram.

 

[canesfan625]

And they've released precious little since then. My GNex has recieved multiple updates in that time span.

You've claimed on multiple occasions that carriers have some sort of obligation to either release ever other update, or release major updates or some variation of that, to "all" phones, where you either imply or state categorically that "all" means "every wp7 phone ever made" and "major update" means something other than the updates they've failed to release.

I've repeatedly asked you for your source for this claim, preferably including the details from the contract that provides some sort of definition for what "release" or "major update" means and what "all phones" means, so we can get some idea of the scope of the carrier's actual commitment and how much flexibility they have in weaselling out.

I'm still waiting.

the answer to part of that is common sense. Carriers wouldn't be obligated to release an update to a device Microsoft no longer supports.. Now people are just really reaching.

 

[smoledman]

There is no doubt current devices will get Apollo. In order for Windows phone to gain marketshare and Nokia to gain investor trust relations they need to cover all price ranges.

There is no way they can have WP8 dual core phones priced at 0 to 49$. The specs you see today are WP8 low-mid range handsets and will probably get refreshed as WP8 tango phones.

There is no way an OS cant run on 1.4GHZ snapdragon with 512MB of ram.

7.x devices will not get the full Apollo, but a subset of bug fixes and new features(Skype integration, improved multitasking).

 

[johnmcd348]

Isn't there roughly a 24 months support rhythm for MS? Kind of like how they just recently shut down support for WM. WP7 would be coming up on the 24 months window within about 1 year after WP8 and with this Newer OS and the attempt at further integrating the Phone, Tablet, Desktop/Laptop into 1 cohesive system, what sense would it make to install the newer OS onto technically much older hardware.

I wonder if people have already really started looking at their phones the same way we looked at computers just a few years ago. We would buy one and hold onto it for a longer period of time and simply update the OS. Only thing was, we would occasionally have to update the hardware also to some minor degree. Bit and piece upgrading to keep an older system current. Even with laptops, it was possible to improve on things to some degree. Phones, not so much.

 

[selfcreation]

wow seriously . if you did some research you would know .

The truth about Windows Phone 7, software updates, and carriers’ ability to block those updates | Windows Phone Secrets


if you read that and see the quotes from JOE BELFIORE, its clearly explained.

basically a carrier can only block a update for ONE cycle , and that would happen ONLY if they dont get the testing done on time. ( one cycle like does minor updates ) now they cant miss 2 updates cycle cause MS cooks in the updates they miss.

if this happens MS will work with the carrier to includes missed updates into the NEXT update, and in theory if a carrier blocks a MAJOR update witch MS would NOT be happy with , they could completely BYPASS the carrier and just release on ZUNE as JOE says.

 

[mparker]

wow seriously . if you did some research you would know .

The truth about Windows Phone 7, software updates, and carriers’ ability to block those updates | Windows Phone Secrets


if you read that and see the quotes from JOE BELFIORE, its clearly explained.

basically a carrier can only block a update for ONE cycle , and that would happen ONLY if they dont get the testing done on time. ( one cycle like does minor updates ) now they cant miss 2 updates cycle cause MS cooks in the updates they miss.

if this happens MS will work with the carrier to includes missed updates into the NEXT update, and in theory if a carrier blocks a MAJOR update witch MS would NOT be happy with , they could completely BYPASS the carrier and just release on ZUNE as JOE says.

wow seriously . if you did some research you would know - the guy that wrote that article has since issued a correction. That statement by Belfiore has been retracted/disavowed/memory-holed by microsoft.

Paul Thurrott: Tango may not come to all Windows phones | WMPoweruser

Edit: wrong link above - here's the right one: http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-software-updates-revisited-142382

At a reviewer workshop in October 2010, before the product launch, Microsoft's Joe Belfiore had told reviewers, "if a carrier wants to stop an update they can. But they will get it out on the next release." He added that updates were cumulative, which is true, but reiterated that "if one [carrier] doesn't get their testing done in time, the next push date comes and it goes out then."

These statements created what I now know to be a misunderstanding, where it was believed that carriers could block one Windows Phone update, but once another update appears, the carriers that blocked the previous update would be required to ship both.

....

I've since learned that this comment about software updates is not correct. It's not correct at all.
...

wireless carriers are not required to ship at least every other update. They can block software updates as they see fit. And, as is now happening, some carriers have in fact blocked two updates in a row.

 

[selfcreation]

ok w/e.

lets all stay negative

 

[mparker]

the answer to part of that is common sense. Carriers wouldn't be obligated to release an update to a device Microsoft no longer supports.. Now people are just really reaching.

What evidence do we actually have that *anybody* is obligated to release an update whatsoever, without even getting into the question of what exactly Microsoft would consider to be the "devices they support"?

Paul Thurrott, who was the original source for this whole idea of mandatory updates, has since retracted this, saying he misunderstood what Belfiore meant, and that Microsoft has told him that carriers can block *any* update, even multiple updates, without any problems.

 

[socialcarpet]

ok w/e.

lets all stay negative

I heard from a "trusted source" inside Microsoft that not only will none of the current phones be getting Apollo, but Microsoft is actually going to force an OTA downgrade to Windows Mobile 6.0. You will just wake up one morning and your Lumia will be running Windows Mobile circa 2007.

A trusted source told me this, so everyone can now begin discussing it as if it's a known fact.

 

[oldpueblo]

With faster hardware and a bigger screen that might not be so bad.

 

[anon(5335877)]

I heard from a "trusted source" inside Microsoft that not only will none of the current phones be getting Apollo, but Microsoft is actually going to force an OTA downgrade to Windows Mobile 6.0. You will just wake up one morning and your Lumia will be running Windows Mobile circa 2007.

A trusted source told me this, so everyone can now begin discussing it as if it's a known fact.

Oh goodie! Now all the people who were complaining about the boring live tiles, the lack of a user accessible file system, Bluetooth file transfer, and lack of customization will surely be satisfied now! /sarcasm

 

[selfcreation]

well following the TREND that MS is on , im not worried. so far every carrier release the major updates on time so far ( a few phones had problems but each carrier launched it . you not getting the update right away doesn't mean it dint get launch on time just in case some one claims it does because of the update QUE they use.)

if MS keeps going the way they have from day 1: we gona get Apollo and all carriers will release it.

the only carrier right now I see NOT supporting an UPDATE is BELL in Canada cause they are one of the only *original WP carrier* to no longer sale WP.


Beside if a carrier does NOT release a major Update, that carrier just lost 100% WP sales and the CEO would get fired.

not to mention AT&T just got paid MILLIONS to use NOKIA 900 as a flag ship ... why would they NOT release it!? to get sued by Nokia? for not holding up a contract...

comment sens 101

 

[1jaxstate1]

Just add this as your wallpaper and you'll have Apollo. It's all rumor and speculation. Just chill out and relax. It won't be the end of the world if does or does not come out for current phone.

[/url]

 

[mparker]

Beside if a carrier does NOT release a major Update, that carrier just lost 100% WP sales and the CEO would get fired.

Except for AT&T I'm not certain most carriers would even notice, and even there only (possibly) in the last few weeks. WP7 sales have been pretty low after all.

not to mention AT&T just got paid MILLIONS to use NOKIA 900 as a flag ship ... why would they NOT release it!? to get sued by Nokia? for not holding up a contract...

If you have a copy of the contract I'd love to see the relevant parts that AT&T would be violating by not upgrading the Focus, Focus S, Quantum, and Titan phones to Apollo or even Tango. If you don't have a copy of the contract then why try to make such a claim? Much less why do you keep repeating claims like this?

If the contract requires them to release Apollo for the Lumia 900, and Apollo is released for the Lumia 900, and their testing indicates that it works, then I'd expect them to release it for the Lumia 900. But that's a lot of "if's". Of all the WP7 phones, the Lumia 900 is the one I think has the highest chance of getting Apollo. But I don't think it is very high even there.

 

[selfcreation]

first of all, if one phones gets it on a carrier , they ALL DO! its the same update.

MS sends to OEMs , OEMS sends back to MS . MS then sends to Carriers for network testing.

i wasn't taking about the Apollo update directly, im talking about ALL the updates.

aside carriers don' t decide if ALL WP will get Apollo, MS does 100%

and what does the Focus, Focus S, Quantum, and Titan have to do with NOKAI's contract with AT&T?? nothing!

im just saying if MS decides to push Apollo to the NOKIA 900 and AT&T doesn't release the update .. NOKIA would be pissed and could possibly sue AT&T for not supporting a device they are SUPPOSE to support. because they where paid MILLIONS to support/ push it.

*not supporting a phone after a a agreement with a major RTM* = not holding up there part of the deal = not holding up a contract = could get sued.

 

[mparker]

first of all, if one phones gets it on a carrier , they ALL DO! its the same update.

So we all just imagined the problems with the Focus update where one variant didn't get it for months - somehow it was still same update that they got? We all are just hallucinating the updates that went to unbranded L800 phones but not to branded AT&T phones?

aside carriers don' t decide if ALL WP will get Apollo, MS does 100%

There is real-world evidence that you are wrong on this point, that while Microsoft has the first say as to whether a phone gets a particular update, carriers have the final say.

im just saying if MS decides to push Apollo to the NOKIA 900 and AT&T doesn't release the update .. NOKIA would be pissed and could possibly sue AT&T for not supporting a device they are SUPPOSE to support. because they where paid MILLIONS to support/ push it.

*not supporting a phone after a a agreement with a major RTM* = not holding up there part of the deal = not holding up a contract = could get sued.

You would get p*ssed, but you are not Nokia. Nokia might get p*ssed, or maybe not, it depends on a lot of things. Suppose they were both aware before getting into bed with each other that the Lumia 900 wouldn't be getting Apollo. Still think Nokia would be pissed? This is not a far-fetched scenario, it's what Thurrott and the "insider" leak from The Site Which Shall Not Be Named have been saying.

But let's follow your point. If Microsoft releases Apollo for the 900, and if the contract between AT&T and Nokia mandates the release of the Apollo update, and if there is no way for AT&T to fail it for bogus reasons, and if there is no way for AT&T to delay it indefinitely through testing, and if AT&T refuses to release the update, Nokia could possibly sue AT&T. Whether they are allowed to sue or must choose binding arbitration, which court they would be allowed to sue in, and what particular remedies they could pursue, are all going to be spelled out in their contract. If you don't know what the details of that contract are - and so far you've given zero evidence that you do - then you're just talking out of your *ss.

 

[selfcreation]

DUDE! seriously this is NOT a android phone

Samsung focus had NOTHING to do with the carrier!! it was a hardware problem hence why they change the rev from 1.3 to 1.4 the carrier was planing on releasing it but because SAMSUNG held it back they couldn't release it for that model. but the carrier STILL got the update.

every single phone got mango!!!! ALL OF THEM! took longer cause of bugs ( like is aid in my other post ) but they still got it!!! same with with the DELL VP was like 2-3 months late due to bugs.

second you think AT&T decides if first gen phones get the next update? LMAO .. end of that convo , weather or not first gen phones will get the next update is 100% HARDWARE/ROM related,. nothing to do with carriers.

if the 900 supports Apollo and AT&T doesn't release it and other carriers do . you bet your *** NOKIA will sue . but it wont happen cause OEM and RTM work together on the update with MS.

it might just take longer.

 

[canesfan625]

wow seriously . if you did some research you would know - the guy that wrote that article has since issued a correction. That statement by Belfiore has been retracted/disavowed/memory-holed by microsoft.

Paul Thurrott: Tango may not come to all Windows phones | WMPoweruser

According to Paul Thurrott we probably shouldn't have mango either.

Did you read why he thinks some phones wont get tango? the guy is a joke.

 

[mparker]

According to Paul Thurrott we probably shouldn't have mango either.

Did you read why he thinks some phones wont get tango? the guy is a joke.

Sorry, wrong link before. Here's the thurrott post where he retracts his statements about carriers being required to release wp7 updates:

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-software-updates-revisited-142382

 

[selfcreation]

I still stand with this:

if first and second GEN phones do get the *go ahead* for apollo , and considering the big pay out AT&T got from Nokia, I VERY MUCH DOUBT that they would block it.