04-23-2012 10:06 PM
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  1. ninjaap's Avatar
    A copy and paste I posted in another thread:

    Seriously, whether we get Apollo on current devices or not, the updates have to be cut off at some point. It's just reality. That's why its beneficial to just jump on the bandwagon as soon as possible, because the sooner you upgrade now, the sooner you can upgrade to your next one (has been my philosophy).

    Even if my 900 doesn't get Apollo, in 18 months I will upgrade (early upgrade from ATT) to a second gen WP that will be the envy of first gen WP8 device adopters. It's a seesaw with these phones, in terms of latest options.

    The longer you wait to get your phone, the closer you get to latest update/upgrade, in terms of software and hardware. Then you make yourself go crazy and end up blaming MS, OEMs, and carriers who obviously follow a structured and predictable timetable. So just make a decision and stick with it.
    04-19-2012 12:09 PM
  2. drankurn's Avatar
    this is my reply, same copied from my other post...

    I definitely like the platform, and I have been supporting it from the beginning, but I definitly am not a 'FANBOY'. when i got on to the platform I knew what i'll be getting and what are the things that i would need to compromise on, and this UPDATE question was a POSITIVE at that moment, and we were led in to believing that all the devices would get all the updates ( obviously no forever, but..)
    although they never said so about wp8 update, but if you ask anyone who has followed the platform from it's early days including yourself, you would realise that it was just a common 'understading' that we will get all the updates.
    and than the flip-flop started with the smaller updates and no we stand today where MS just does not want to address the question.
    the only real way of getting the answer is for US to ask the question straight to MS, and apply our collective pressure at this time when the issue is in the MEDIA eye.
    Now, I have been tweeting to MS, NOKIA , Joe Belfiore to get the answer for couple of days, but yet to get any response, but i think we should all start asking the question, and force them in to taking a stand, I don't think that asking too much...
    04-19-2012 12:41 PM
  3. kenzibit's Avatar
    @ninjaap
    We all know updates will cut off at a time but not now. This is because WP is just new and most of us using it are not having enough feel, the needed apps and all that Microsoft hopes to bring to the platform. Now we've all been waiting for great features for our phones since that promise and MS just can't ignore its first customers after all the promises they made that made us go into WP. To tell you the truth, MS will be DAMNED not to update current WPs to Apollo. Most WPs will get the update which will just be based on hardware. There will be a lot of ANGRY customers out there if MS refuses to update and they will definitely loose the small market share they have. Do you think MS will be that stupid to start all over again?

    I myself and most WP users will definitely switch to a different OS if MS fails to update us...because if they introduce WP8, same thing is bound to happen when it's time for WP 9...and I just can't live with an OS with no mind on its own (instability) like that no matter how great it becomes.
    rockstarzzz likes this.
    04-19-2012 01:58 PM
  4. ninjaap's Avatar
    Switch to what OS exactly? Are other OS's any better than WP's upgrade paths? We already know how Android works. And iPhone/Android users jump to WP for reasons other than current upgradeability. Furthermore, you can't assume that "most WP users will definitely switch", because you simply don't have that data. Does Android or iOS have the type of responsibility you guys are clamoring for?

    It is hardly instability when their OS upgrade road maps are predictable and laid out in a timely manner.

    History repeats itself. Same thing happened when Mango was announced. Now its happening with Apollo. Its inevitable, when the next crop of devices come out, on the fringe of WP9, we will go through this exact same discussion. And there will be people who threaten to leave the platform as usual.
    bear_lx and Diamondx_8 like this.
    04-19-2012 02:44 PM
  5. iAdrian23's Avatar
    What? You guys don't know the latest news?
    MS Nerd says some Microsoft workers are testing Apollo on Lumia 610 and WPXAP also says that some Microsoft workers are testing WP8 on Lumia 800.

    THERE IS A SAVE FOR US!:lol: MICROSOFT<3
    04-19-2012 02:56 PM
  6. ninjaap's Avatar
    What? You guys don't know the latest news?
    MS Nerd says some Microsoft workers are testing Apollo on Lumia 610 and WPXAP also says that some Microsoft workers are testing WP8 on Lumia 800.

    THERE IS A SAVE FOR US!:lol: MICROSOFT<3
    Everyone is better off not reading articles about that, unless it comes from the horses mouth. Because once another article debunks this rumor/hearsay, people will turn around and blame MS again for something they never said/promised.
    NDCowpoke likes this.
    04-19-2012 03:18 PM
  7. iAdrian23's Avatar
    Everyone is better off not reading articles about that, unless it comes from the horses mouth. Because once another article debunks this rumor/hearsay, people will turn around and blame MS again for something they never said/promised.
    Damn... You're right.
    04-19-2012 03:25 PM
  8. ninjaap's Avatar
    Damn... You're right.
    Damn right! ;)
    04-19-2012 03:33 PM
  9. socialcarpet's Avatar
    A copy and paste I posted in another thread:

    Seriously, whether we get Apollo on current devices or not, the updates have to be cut off at some point. It's just reality. That's why its beneficial to just jump on the bandwagon as soon as possible, because the sooner you upgrade now, the sooner you can upgrade to your next one (has been my philosophy).

    Even if my 900 doesn't get Apollo, in 18 months I will upgrade (early upgrade from ATT) to a second gen WP that will be the envy of first gen WP8 device adopters. It's a seesaw with these phones, in terms of latest options.

    The longer you wait to get your phone, the closer you get to latest update/upgrade, in terms of software and hardware. Then you make yourself go crazy and end up blaming MS, OEMs, and carriers who obviously follow a structured and predictable timetable. So just make a decision and stick with it.
    This is EXACTLY how I feel. Thanks for summing it up perfectly!
    04-19-2012 04:28 PM
  10. socialcarpet's Avatar
    I'm sure Microsoft is going to do the best they can.

    That said, I wish people would realize that sometimes companies just can't make every major system software update retroactively compatible to every device ever made. It's not fair to expect that, and if they do focus on supporting people with 3 year old phones as a main priority, that could easily hold back progress and keep WP8 from being as good as it could be.

    Personally, I think the onerous demands for endless backwards compatibility have held Windows desktop OS's from being as good as they could be for years. There's just so many people, companies etc, out there clinging to Windows XP and crappy old software and 7 year old PC's that Microsoft has to work twice as hard to escape the inertia.

    So, yes, hopefully WP8 will be available for all the phones, but to expect that, to think you're entitled to demand it for a 3 year old phone or you're going to throw a temper tantrum and go to another OS I think it's a little ridiculous.

    I will be delighted if we can all have Apollo, but barring that, a nice refresh update that takes care of a few of the major requested missing features and a taste of Apollo stuff would be a satisfactory concession prize IMO.

    I'm not a developer, but I do understand Apollo is not like the upgrade from 7 to Mango. It's a major rewrite of the whole enchilada. Entirely new kernel, no more Win CE 6.0, based on the NT kernel instead like the desktop OS's. It's major stuff.
    ninjaap, bear_lx and NDCowpoke like this.
    04-19-2012 04:41 PM
  11. bear_lx's Avatar
    This is EXACTLY how I feel. Thanks for summing it up perfectly!
    me too...
    04-19-2012 05:29 PM
  12. palandri's Avatar
    Technology moves fast. Whatever is the latest and greatest today, won't be the the latest and greatest 6 months from now.
    04-19-2012 05:58 PM
  13. Fleon's Avatar
    @socialcarpet

    I think you are missing the point. I might be a bit more accepting of the original Gen 1 devices not getting the update. (I wouldn't be ok with that, but more on that in a sec). But we're talking about the Titan II, the Lumia 900. Phones that will be about 6 months old. And, since the hardware on those isn't significantly different that the Gen 1 devices, if they can get those to update... all should be eligible for update. But we aren't getting even reassurances that my brand new 900 will be updateable. And that's a problem.

    I expect to get updates for the life of a commercially reasonable contract. And in Canada that's 3 years. I expect all updates to be available in some form for 3 years.

    Apple has done it.
    Android has done it (for some devices, at least)

    MS better get this right or they're going to have some serious issues with early adopters. Or people like me- frequent adopters. I have a Focus, 2 Titans, a 900. They better all get updated.
    drankurn likes this.
    04-19-2012 10:35 PM
  14. ninjaap's Avatar
    Ah... so that's part of the problem. Canadian's have 3 year contracts. I suppose I'd expect that as well if I were in your shoes.
    04-19-2012 10:59 PM
  15. palandri's Avatar
    I couldn't handle having the same phone for 3 years.
    04-19-2012 11:03 PM
  16. baseballbert's Avatar
    I'd tell my carrier:
    "take off you hosers, I'm not abOTe to keep a phone for three years, eh."
    socialcarpet likes this.
    04-20-2012 01:14 AM
  17. drankurn's Avatar
    I really don't understand why everyone is jumping in support of MS on this issue.

    Everyone understands that they will not update these devices forever, but at least they need to do that for about 3 years from the date of release for a particular handset.

    for some reason everyone start defending MS, but if it was the carrier who would do this, the same people would start bashing the carrier for it ???
    04-20-2012 10:23 AM
  18. mparker's Avatar
    for some reason everyone start defending MS, but if it was the carrier who would do this, the same people would start bashing the carrier for it ???
    Apples and oranges. The carriers shouldn't have anything to do with the software, so if they prevent the update from going out then they deserve to be bashed because they're just meddling.

    OTOH their business is the radio and backhaul, and if they did something like this in those areas they probably wouldn't get bashed. Actually, they do this sort of thing all the time. You notice that there hasn't been any real bashing of AT&T for not providing visual voicemail for 3G customers even though the software has been present since Mango - you have to buy an LTE WP7 phone to get it. Or for requiring customers to buy new phones to get LTE (yes I know LTE needs new hardware, but a comparable argument to what some people are making about WP8 is that AT&T knew they were going to LTE years ago, they should have been putting LTE radios in so customers wouldn't be obsoleted while they were still under contract).
    04-20-2012 11:13 AM
  19. ninjaap's Avatar
    Well truth of the matter is, back in the days of WM, 1 year of support is what people demanded from MS, because we only had a year contract. Now, 2 years is fine with me, because that's how long my contract is. And 3 years seems unreasonable unless you have a 3 year contract. So yeah, if you follow the pattern, it seems to be the carrier's fault, but we tend to blame our handsets, be it Android or WP. I know I'm guilty of it over the years.

    I'm sure in years to come, as our carriers lock us in longer, we'd be demanding 4 year, 5 year, 6 year support. Like I said in an earlier post. History repeats itself. Same tune, different day.
    04-20-2012 11:33 AM
  20. drankurn's Avatar
    Apples and oranges. The carriers shouldn't have anything to do with the software, so if they prevent the update from going out then they deserve to be bashed because they're just meddling.
    how does that make any difference to the consumer who is locked into 2-3 year contract. just how we don't like carriers deciding whether to update our devices or not, MS/OEM are doing the same, they just DECIDE whether to update a device or not, it's not REALLY dictated by the hardware, may be some new feature are limited/missing because of hardware, but update in general is just a decision taken by MS/OEM.

    plus, all everyone is asking right now, is just to provide information about the issue, so we 'consumers' can take our own decisions.
    04-20-2012 11:54 AM
  21. ninjaap's Avatar

    plus, all everyone is asking right now, is just to provide information about the issue, so we 'consumers' can take our own decisions.
    That's not what everyone is doing right now. What everyone is doing is getting worked up over rumors that said that you would get upgraded and then got debunked by other rumors that said you wouldn't. And then turn around and blame someone else who had nothing to do with the rumor.
    04-20-2012 12:13 PM
  22. drankurn's Avatar
    That's not what everyone is doing right now. What everyone is doing is getting worked up over rumors that said that you would get upgraded and then got debunked by other rumors that said you wouldn't. And then turn around and blame someone else who had nothing to do with the rumor.
    everyone is doing that because we are not getting any answer from MS. the whole issue is created because of lack of official info.
    04-20-2012 12:23 PM
  23. Thuoudo's Avatar
    The irony is that people threaten to jump to Android or iOS if their current phone doesn't get 8...but how many Android users are jumping when 94% of eligible users don't yet have 4.0? How many jump platforms when the newest iOS update slows their device to a crawl?

    It's all bluster and "oooo I'm gonna show them if I don't get this update..." and grass-is-greener syndrome.

    Heck, brand new Androids that are running 2.3 are slated to get 4.0 "soon" or "some time"--there's never a guarantee.

    So look at from that standpoint. We're not alone. Jump to a GNex and see if Samsung rolls out 4.0 once the GSIII arrives ;) Roll with a 900/T II for a few months and accept it might not get a full-blown version of 8, or save your upgrade.
    Residing likes this.
    04-20-2012 12:26 PM
  24. ninjaap's Avatar
    everyone is doing that because we are not getting any answer from MS. the whole issue is created because of lack of official info.
    You guys act like this isn't normal practice in the industry. I'm sure everyone knows they have reasons to not announce upcoming features of upcoming products.
    04-20-2012 12:27 PM
  25. Thuoudo's Avatar
    You guys act like this isn't normal practice in the industry. I'm sure everyone knows they have reasons to not announce upcoming features of upcoming products.
    Agreed.

    What effect would saying that "current devices will get 8" have on phone sales today--considering we know (well, it's got to be true) that WP8 handsets will have dual cores and HD screens and all that? What says there won't be a Lumia 910 or a Pureview? People would be pissed they can't get one on contract since they "wasted" the upgrade on the 900! :lol:
    04-20-2012 12:41 PM
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