03-08-2014 06:06 PM
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  1. Ivin Laney's Avatar



    You obviously missed the point of the commercials. MS isn't spying on our data and selling said data to advertising firms...
    Ugh...I hate that people don't understand Google's business model. Google does not sell personal data to advertisers. If you need a full explanation of their model and what exactly they do I would be more than happy to explain in detail. To get back on topic, Cortana looks cool.For someone like myself who relies heavily on Google Now when i'm using my android phones and my iPhone, Cortana has the potential to tie the quirky personality of Siri with the awesome contextual awareness of Google Now. That is what i'm most excited about. Although i do understand why people are pointing out the perceived hypocrisy of the data collection. To use Cortana to it's full extent (I understand you can opt out), a person must offer a wide range of personal data personal data just like Google Now. Both companies target ads. One just doesn't do it with the content of your emails.
    03-03-2014 07:00 PM
  2. Jazmac's Avatar
    Ugh...I hate that people don't understand Google's business model. Google does not sell personal data to advertisers. If you need a full explanation of their model and what exactly they do I would be more than happy to explain in detail. To get back on topic, Cortana looks cool.For someone like myself who relies heavily on Google Now when i'm using my android phones and my iPhone, Cortana has the potential to tie the quirky personality of Siri with the awesome contextual awareness of Google Now. That is what i'm most excited about. Although i do understand why people are pointing out the perceived hypocrisy of the data collection. To use Cortana to it's full extent (I understand you can opt out), a person must offer a wide range of personal data personal data just like Google Now. Both companies target ads. One just doesn't do it with the content of your emails.
    What do they use the data for they collect? They keep the info to themselves?

    I don't trust google. They were a decent company at one time but no longer. I think they are a bunch of repugnant, evil, recalcitrant sociopaths that need to be broken up. They do read your documents and when possible hotlink ads to them. I know. I work in an environment where my phone rings daily where I have to remote in to disinfect googles BS. So anything else you may have read that convinced you otherwise, take off the rose colored google glasses. Its a fact.
    On the subject though, I only hope Cortana can do the basics well. I can live with updates to improve on its functionality and usefulness over time.
    broughshane likes this.
    03-03-2014 08:39 PM
  3. Ivin Laney's Avatar
    What do they use the data for they collect? They keep the info to themselves?

    I don't trust google. They were a decent company at one time but no longer. I think they are a bunch of repugnant, evil, recalcitrant sociopaths that need to be broken up. They do read your documents and when possible hotlink ads to them. I know. I work in an environment where my phone rings daily where I have to remote in to disinfect googles BS. So anything else you may have read that convinced you otherwise, take off the rose colored google glasses. Its a fact.
    On the subject though, I only hope Cortana can do the basics well. I can live with updates to improve on its functionality and usefulness over time.
    Rose colored google glasses? I don't need to read articles about Google's or MS's privacy settings when i can just read their respective Terms of Services. From Microsofts privacy Tos:

    "Most of the online advertisements on Microsoft sites are displayed by Microsoft Advertising. When we display online advertisements to you, we will place one or more persistent cookies on your computer in order to recognize your computer each time we display an ad to you. Because we serve advertisements on our own websites as well as those of our advertising and publisher partners, we are able to compile information over time about the types of pages, content and ads you, or others who are using your computer, visited or viewed. This information is used for many purposes, for example, it helps us try to ensure that you do not see the same advertisements over and over again. We also use this information to help select and display targeted advertisements that we believe may be of interest to you."

    I can assure you Google's ToS is very similar (but not exactly the same) having researched both while deciding what to write a research paper on. Your anecdotal evidence lends no merit to you're argument. Additionally, I feel that you're opinion on the matter is rather biased based on you're choice of words when describing Google. Why no hate for MS which essentially does the same thing? Is it because they don't support your platform of choice or is it because Google has somehow personally altered your life for the worse? I eagerly await your response as i look forward to a good debate.
    LeLee092 likes this.
    03-03-2014 10:08 PM
  4. Coolaaron88's Avatar
    Rose colored google glasses? I don't need to read articles about Google's or MS's privacy settings when i can just read their respective Terms of Services. From Microsofts privacy Tos:

    "Most of the online advertisements on Microsoft sites are displayed by Microsoft Advertising. When we display online advertisements to you, we will place one or more persistent cookies on your computer in order to recognize your computer each time we display an ad to you. Because we serve advertisements on our own websites as well as those of our advertising and publisher partners, we are able to compile information over time about the types of pages, content and ads you, or others who are using your computer, visited or viewed. This information is used for many purposes, for example, it helps us try to ensure that you do not see the same advertisements over and over again. We also use this information to help select and display targeted advertisements that we believe may be of interest to you."

    I can assure you Google's ToS is very similar (but not exactly the same) having researched both while deciding what to write a research paper on. Your anecdotal evidence lends no merit to you're argument. Additionally, I feel that you're opinion on the matter is rather biased based on you're choice of words when describing Google. Why no hate for MS which essentially does the same thing? Is it because they don't support your platform of choice or is it because Google has somehow personally altered your life for the worse? I eagerly await your response as i look forward to a good debate.
    ​*popcorn*
    rcazador likes this.
    03-04-2014 12:49 AM
  5. bayanii's Avatar
    Ouch...
    03-04-2014 02:07 AM
  6. bayanii's Avatar
    Oh yeah. I need to stay away. These forums are making the BUILD seem so far away.
    03-04-2014 02:11 AM
  7. rcazador's Avatar
    Rose colored google glasses? I don't need to read articles about Google's or MS's privacy settings when i can just read their respective Terms of Services. From Microsofts privacy Tos:

    "Most of the online advertisements on Microsoft sites are displayed by Microsoft Advertising. When we display online advertisements to you, we will place one or more persistent cookies on your computer in order to recognize your computer each time we display an ad to you. Because we serve advertisements on our own websites as well as those of our advertising and publisher partners, we are able to compile information over time about the types of pages, content and ads you, or others who are using your computer, visited or viewed. This information is used for many purposes, for example, it helps us try to ensure that you do not see the same advertisements over and over again. We also use this information to help select and display targeted advertisements that we believe may be of interest to you."

    I can assure you Google's ToS is very similar (but not exactly the same) having researched both while deciding what to write a research paper on. Your anecdotal evidence lends no merit to you're argument. Additionally, I feel that you're opinion on the matter is rather biased based on you're choice of words when describing Google. Why no hate for MS which essentially does the same thing? Is it because they don't support your platform of choice or is it because Google has somehow personally altered your life for the worse? I eagerly await your response as i look forward to a good debate.
    Blah Blah, WP8.1 ships with advertiser id which lets you reset any data collect to push contextual ads.
    03-04-2014 03:44 AM
  8. Ivin Laney's Avatar
    Blah Blah, WP8.1 ships with advertiser id which lets you reset any data collect to push contextual ads.
    Advertiser id is in reference to in app advertisement rather than Microsoft's advertisements as a whole. For example, if you reset the data for your apps, you wont see targeted ads in those apps. What I was trying to show Jazmac was that without a user giving consent to MS to collect data, Cortana would not be as useful as Google Now. Additionally, if said person was to give MS this data but cry foul when Google does essentially the same thing while also giving the user the ability to opt out (albeit not from individual sources as notebook is said to do), I can see how it comes off as hypocritial . Please don't try to paint me as a fan of some faceless corporation as i have hardware and software from all of the top 3 that includes my awesome 925. I just have a general dislike of situations where people state their opinion as fact. If you want to say "Google steals data and sells it to Advertisers", I want you to same the same for MS. Cortana will be awesome if you opt in to everything ( which many on this site will). But so will Google Now.
    Last edited by Ivin Laney; 03-04-2014 at 06:19 AM.
    03-04-2014 06:08 AM
  9. taymur's Avatar
    its simple, when you got a WP device, you bought it, I don't know for how much 10$ I guess read something about it going down to 6$...

    when you got an android device, you got it for free,

    so Microsoft already made their profit, Google still didn't.



    the right question, What is it for Google? how do they make their profit then? a simple example of the answer is (trends.google.com) - if you don't know this site then you have no idea of googles power.

    there is a huge difference between using your data to help your self. and using data to help your self and them. period. but it is still fair because you get free services, its a valid model,

    The real question is, what is more valuable, 10\ 6$ worth of OS or all your data trail? that's up to you to decide.
    calfee20 and broughshane like this.
    03-04-2014 06:29 AM
  10. Morpheus Phreak's Avatar
    Rose colored google glasses? I don't need to read articles about Google's or MS's privacy settings when i can just read their respective Terms of Services. From Microsofts privacy Tos:

    "Most of the online advertisements on Microsoft sites are displayed by Microsoft Advertising. When we display online advertisements to you, we will place one or more persistent cookies on your computer in order to recognize your computer each time we display an ad to you. Because we serve advertisements on our own websites as well as those of our advertising and publisher partners, we are able to compile information over time about the types of pages, content and ads you, or others who are using your computer, visited or viewed. This information is used for many purposes, for example, it helps us try to ensure that you do not see the same advertisements over and over again. We also use this information to help select and display targeted advertisements that we believe may be of interest to you."

    I can assure you Google's ToS is very similar (but not exactly the same) having researched both while deciding what to write a research paper on. Your anecdotal evidence lends no merit to you're argument. Additionally, I feel that you're opinion on the matter is rather biased based on you're choice of words when describing Google. Why no hate for MS which essentially does the same thing? Is it because they don't support your platform of choice or is it because Google has somehow personally altered your life for the worse? I eagerly await your response as i look forward to a good debate.
    I may not be the person that you were replying to, but I can give you a response since I've helped write some of the policies for Microsoft in regards to data collection, usage, etc in regards to Xbox, but most of that Xbox work is what is now the wording on other properties as well.

    My response is that you have absolutely 0 clue of what you're talking about, and when asked to provide an in-depth view (which you said you would) for some reason you managed to magically falter at providing any concrete information other than to say something akin to 'Well it's all sort of just the same' when it fact it is not.

    That's a start and end to the debate all in a single post. ;)
    03-04-2014 06:52 AM
  11. Ivin Laney's Avatar
    its simple, when you got a WP device, you bought it, I don't know for how much 10$ I guess read something about it going down to 6$...

    when you got an android device, you got it for free,

    so Microsoft already made their profit, Google still didn't.



    the right question, What is it for Google? how do they make their profit then? a simple example of the answer is (trends.google.com) - if you don't know this site then you have no idea of googles power.

    there is a huge difference between using your data to help your self. and using data to help your self and them. period. but it is still fair because you get free services, its a valid model,

    The real question is, what is more valuable, 10\ 6$ worth of OS or all your data trail? that's up to you to decide.
    While i understand what you are trying to say, it seems that you are saying that MS isn't making money on ads and targeting as Google does. It would be incorrect to say that the data collected by either company is only used by the end user. Otherwise, what incentive does Microsoft or Google have to offer free services? So in your example, MS makes money from the sale of a license and the targeting of ads (which makes awesome business sense). Addtionally, if MS was to make WP free (which some WP users are screaming for) would that change your view on Google's monetization of its platform? If WP goes free what is more valuable to you your data and the services they power or your privacy? Will you go iOS because Apple makes their money from the license or will stay with WP which would be monetized exactly like Google's Android?
    03-04-2014 07:04 AM
  12. taymur's Avatar
    If WP got free, then most probably it will be adopting the freemium model google presents.

    Would I stay with ms or switch to google or apple. I have no idea, I personally don't care about my data trail, but I don't like the concept of huge data, so most probably ill switch to apple. What all companies changed to a freemium model then I'll go with WP as i feel they have a very powerful theme for their OS that i like.

    Back to the subject of cortana, I think it will be rendered useless if it doesn't learn from your data trail, hopefully they won't sell this data.
    03-04-2014 07:12 AM
  13. Ivin Laney's Avatar
    I may not be the person that you were replying to, but I can give you a response since I've helped write some of the policies for Microsoft in regards to data collection, usage, etc in regards to Xbox, but most of that Xbox work is what is now the wording on other properties as well.

    My response is that you have absolutely 0 clue of what you're talking about, and when asked to provide an in-depth view (which you said you would) for some reason you managed to magically falter at providing any concrete information other than to say something akin to 'Well it's all sort of just the same' when it fact it is not.

    That's a start and end to the debate all in a single post. ;)
    I said that I would offer a detailed explanation of Google's business model if he wanted. He never replied to my offer. Me saying that their ToS are similar doesn't mean i "faltered at providing information". I'm always in pursuit of knowledge so please feel free to point out my errors :)

    Edit: So I've looked again just to see if things may have changed in the privacy ToS of both companies. They still appear very similar to me.

    Google: http://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/

    Microsoft: http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/fullnotice.mspx
    Last edited by Ivin Laney; 03-04-2014 at 08:07 AM.
    03-04-2014 07:20 AM
  14. Ivin Laney's Avatar
    If WP got free, then most probably it will be adopting the freemium model google presents.

    Would I stay with ms or switch to google or apple. I have no idea, I personally don't care about my data trail, but I don't like the concept of huge data, so most probably ill switch to apple. What all companies changed to a freemium model then I'll go with WP as i feel they have a very powerful theme for their OS that i like.

    Back to the subject of cortana, I think it will be rendered useless if it doesn't learn from your data trail, hopefully they won't sell this data.
    I agree. Thanks for talking with me.
    taymur likes this.
    03-04-2014 07:23 AM
  15. Kage Maru's Avatar
    I said that I would offer a detailed explanation of Google's business model if he wanted. He never replied to my offer. Me saying that their ToS are similar doesn't mean i "faltered at providing information". I'm always in pursuit of knowledge so please feel free to point out my errors :)

    Edit: So I've looked again just to see if things may have changed in the privacy ToS of both companies. They still appear very similar to me.

    Google: Privacy Policy ? Policies & Principles ? Google

    Microsoft: Microsoft Online Privacy Statement
    Ok let's see your explanation.

    As long as I can opt out on MS following and collecting my data while I can't do the same with google, there's nothing you can really do to convince people that they are similar.

    Also a ToC doesn't always cover what a company does and does not do, but mostly what they can and cannot do. I have yet to see any ads based on my emails for example.
    03-04-2014 09:09 AM
  16. Ivin Laney's Avatar
    Ok let's see your explanation.

    As long as I can opt out on MS following and collecting my data while I can't do the same with google, there's nothing you can really do to convince people that they are similar.

    Also a ToC doesn't always cover what a company does and does not do, but mostly what they can and cannot do. I have yet to see any ads based on my emails for example.
    Where do you see that you can opt out of MS colecting your data? You can opt out of targeted ads as you can with google, but not the tracking in general. I said earlier that MS doesn't target ads based on email content. The only ads you would get on Outlook are one based on your age, gender, and zip code. And just to be clear you want me to explain Google's business model correct?
    03-04-2014 10:12 AM
  17. EzraWard's Avatar
    Looks pretty good if you ask me. I've been waiting on this for a long time. It will be nice to be able to use my nice Nokia Purity earbuds to initiate calls, check on the weather, etc, without having to get my 920 out of my pocket.
    03-04-2014 10:15 AM
  18. psgenious's Avatar
    I think it will be useless, but if it is made like artificial intelligence then it would be great for time pass like--
    Hi cortana
    hi
    How r u
    fine , and howz u
    im also fine ,well what were you doing
    nothing just surfing the net
    I have 1 question
    ok ask
    what is the speed of sound in 22 degree C
    its 344m/s
    ok, well , are there any updates available
    no




    LOL , I was just doing time pass , as we all know that it will never be like this
    taymur and akshaypn like this.
    03-04-2014 10:40 AM
  19. Kage Maru's Avatar
    Where do you see that you can opt out of MS colecting your data? You can opt out of targeted ads as you can with google, but not the tracking in general. I said earlier that MS doesn't target ads based on email content. The only ads you would get on Outlook are one based on your age, gender, and zip code. And just to be clear you want me to explain Google's business model correct?
    I was actually referring to opting out or editing what data MS collects for Cortana to use, since this thread is about Cortana, not how Google isn't a horrible company.

    As for how Google runs their business, all I care to know is how it's not as intrusive as it sounds or how MS is no better. I don't recall reports on MS monitoring where I go so they can give me better ads. This is one perfect example to how I would feel uneasy with Google. I think they are a very forward thinking company, but they have also gotten too big for their own good.
    03-04-2014 10:44 AM
  20. In Limbo's Avatar
    I hope she can joke back (like Siri when you ask odd questions).
    taymur likes this.
    03-04-2014 11:45 AM
  21. Ivin Laney's Avatar
    I was actually referring to opting out or editing what data MS collects for Cortana to use, since this thread is about Cortana, not how Google isn't a horrible company.

    As for how Google runs their business, all I care to know is how it's not as intrusive as it sounds or how MS is no better. I don't recall reports on MS monitoring where I go so they can give me better ads. This is one perfect example to how I would feel uneasy with Google. I think they are a very forward thinking company, but they have also gotten too big for their own good.
    My argument isn't about how Google isn't horrible. It's about the precieved hypocracy of data collection in relation to Cortana that was put out in some earlier posts. I acknowledged that you can opt out of individual sections using the notebook feature in one of my earlier posts. My point was that to use Cortana to it's fullest potential, a person would have to offer a similar amount of data as a person who uses Google Now. So why are some okay with MS doing the data mining to put into a foward thinking service but not Google? That's why I posted both privacy policies for someone to point out a reason and to offer a logical explanation. I'm no fanboy and I would love to learn something new. For Google's business model and why it's not as intrusive as it sounds I'll use myself as an example. I use Google services on my iMac, my iPhone, my 925 (through IE), and of course my android phones. What Google does is learn where i like to eat, what kind of music I like, where i work, what i drive, where i live, how far i walk,that I'm married, that I'm a soldier, etc. From there they create an anonymous profile of me that stays with Google and is not shared with anyone. Next a company aproaches Google as says I want to advertise to young males who are interested in performance parts for a Nissan 350z. From there, Google looks in their servers and serves ads to those still anonymous profiles. If an advertiser got the data from Google what would keep them coming back to continue advertising? That is why the data is so much more valuable in Google's hands rather than them giving it out to any company that wants to show ads. Anything i didnt cover?
    03-04-2014 12:00 PM
  22. nyolc8's Avatar
    On video:
    03-04-2014 02:00 PM
  23. Ma Rio's Avatar
    Why couldn't the guy just show what she sounds like..
    03-04-2014 03:23 PM
  24. Kage Maru's Avatar
    Awesome little teaser there. I can't wait to try it.

    My argument isn't about how Google isn't horrible. It's about the precieved hypocracy of data collection in relation to Cortana that was put out in some earlier posts. I acknowledged that you can opt out of individual sections using the notebook feature in one of my earlier posts. My point was that to use Cortana to it's fullest potential, a person would have to offer a similar amount of data as a person who uses Google Now. So why are some okay with MS doing the data mining to put into a foward thinking service but not Google? That's why I posted both privacy policies for someone to point out a reason and to offer a logical explanation. I'm no fanboy and I would love to learn something new. For Google's business model and why it's not as intrusive as it sounds I'll use myself as an example. I use Google services on my iMac, my iPhone, my 925 (through IE), and of course my android phones. What Google does is learn where i like to eat, what kind of music I like, where i work, what i drive, where i live, how far i walk,that I'm married, that I'm a soldier, etc. From there they create an anonymous profile of me that stays with Google and is not shared with anyone. Next a company aproaches Google as says I want to advertise to young males who are interested in performance parts for a Nissan 350z. From there, Google looks in their servers and serves ads to those still anonymous profiles. If an advertiser got the data from Google what would keep them coming back to continue advertising? That is why the data is so much more valuable in Google's hands rather than them giving it out to any company that wants to show ads. Anything i didnt cover?
    Thanks for the reply and I see where you're coming from. Only thing I don't agree with is what you consider hypocrisy. If I can opt out of Cortana gathering all or certain key points of data about me, that is much more preferred than any company gathering all the data they can about me without my knowledge, cooperation, and especially options to decide what is tracked. I think the level of control over the owner's data/history is what brings people at ease with this service. For example, I wouldn't mind using Cortana to the fullest extent, but if I find that it's becoming too intrusive, I can opt out of the parts I'm not comfortable with or the entire thing. Does Google offer this level of control over the user's data? Honest question because if not, that freedom could be the dividing factor between what is acceptable and what is not for some people.

    To me the anonymous aspect means very little.

    Why couldn't the guy just show what she sounds like..
    The service just may not work as expected....or the poster of the video just likes to torture us.
    Ivin Laney likes this.
    03-04-2014 03:38 PM
  25. RustyU's Avatar
    I think the hypocrisy is that both Google and MS's ToC say pretty much the same thing (not specific to Cortana either), but people either overlook that MS's say it, or simply don't know it and jump on Google.

    At the end of the day, both companies are using your data for targeted advertising.
    Ivin Laney likes this.
    03-04-2014 03:57 PM
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