11-14-2014 09:38 AM
49 12
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  1. Im_Q's Avatar
    Then vote here:
    Enable NFC Mobile Payment with Visa Token Service €“ Feature Suggestions for Windows Phone

    One of the technology behind Apple pay is just a consolidation of Visa's contact payment system. Luckily, Visa is opening it up through an set of APIs and available SDKs for merchants, mobile device manufacturer, and several other types of entities to implement this for of payment for their systems. This means that Microsoft could implement NFC visa payments themselves instead of waiting on Visa to bring it to WP8 (Visa claims it's coming to all major platforms but who knows how long it'll take).

    This probably still needs a secure SIM to work and may only be limited to Visa initially and it may not be ubiquitous until more NFC terminals roll out but if we can demonstrate a demand for this feature, hopefully we can at least convince Microsoft to talk to Visa to speed up development.

    I know there have been requests on the User Voice site for similar features but this is a request for a specific implementation. This points to an actual available API that works with a very popular card issuer. And with NFC and wallet decoupling in WP8.1, third party extensibility including a third party Microsoft-written app is easy to implement.
    Last edited by Im_Q; 09-10-2014 at 07:25 AM.
    09-10-2014 07:14 AM
  2. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I just gave it 3 votes.
    azlkk and Im_Q like this.
    09-10-2014 10:23 AM
  3. Im_Q's Avatar
    thanks for the support!
    RumoredNow likes this.
    09-11-2014 07:20 AM
  4. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Voted too....Maybe MS will do something with this now that apple created Apple pay...
    Im_Q and RumoredNow like this.
    09-11-2014 07:30 AM
  5. Im_Q's Avatar
    Well, from what I understand, 3rd party devs have the ability to develop apps that can perform NFC payments and as well as integrate with the Wallet app but the issue is no one has stepped up to do so. The expectation for Isis or Softcard (whatever they're called now) that's favored by the large carriers was supposed to create an app to enable NFC payments so long as you have a secure SIM... unfortunately that still hasn't happened. And since this deals with money, we can pretty much rule out outside parties from developing an app on their behalf. This is why the Visa token service is a small glimmer of hope. The ability to extend NFC and Wallet is there, and with an available API maybe at least Visa card users can finally get NFC payments (and soon).
    09-11-2014 08:05 AM
  6. tgp's Avatar
    I wonder why Microsoft can't do what Google and Apple did and eliminate the need for a Softcard-compatible SIM. That to me makes the most sense. Suck it up, carriers!
    RumoredNow likes this.
    09-11-2014 08:29 AM
  7. Im_Q's Avatar
    I wonder why Microsoft can't do what Google and Apple did and eliminate the need for a Softcard-compatible SIM. That to me makes the most sense. Suck it up, carriers!
    We're talking about carriers that blocked Google Wallet before Softcard was ready so even if they did, we probably wouldn't get very far. And from what I understand, Apple doesn't need a secure SIM because the secure element is on the device itself. Other smart phones do not have that so they rely on the SIM for a partition of encrypted and secure data. I mean I'm sure it's feasible for Microsoft to do it without the secure element of the Secure SIM but I doubt many institutions would adopt something that seems relatively more vulnerable.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    09-11-2014 08:51 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    We're talking about carriers that blocked Google Wallet before Softcard was ready so even if they did, we probably wouldn't get very far. And from what I understand, Apple doesn't need a secure SIM because the secure element is on the device itself. Other smart phones do not have that so they rely on the SIM for a partition of encrypted and secure data. I mean I'm sure it's feasible for Microsoft to do it without the secure element of the Secure SIM but I doubt many institutions would adopt something that seems relatively more vulnerable.
    Google did awhile ago what Apple is doing, although not using exactly the same method. Almost all devices running KitKat can use tap and pay (there are a few exceptions because of hardware limitations). With KitKat, Google brought HCE (Host Card Emulation) to Android. From what I understand, this basically uses software for the secure element rather than hardware. Carriers cannot block it.

    Here's an interesting Wikipedia page on HCE.
    Last edited by tgp; 09-11-2014 at 10:10 AM.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    09-11-2014 09:43 AM
  9. tgp's Avatar
    ISIS/Softcard was the most poorly conceived idea ever produced. FOUR carriers got together and decided they would mandate chips that only THEY could issue.
    Hey, are you trying to say that the carriers don't have our best interest in mind???? In my mind the fact that it was conceived by the carriers is reason enough to believe that ISIS (the terrorist organization, not to be confused with the group from the Middle East) is flawed out of the gate.
    SwimSwim likes this.
    09-11-2014 12:25 PM
  10. ashram's Avatar
    even worse since you can turn on tap to pay in the NFC section, but you can't pay for anything :( surprising that no one wants us to spend our money that much faster!
    09-11-2014 12:27 PM
  11. RumoredNow's Avatar
    even worse since you can turn on tap to pay in the NFC section, but you can't pay for anything :( surprising that no one wants us to spend our money that much faster!
    Right!!!

    ​I thought, "Shut up and take my money." was the new mantra.
    09-11-2014 02:23 PM
  12. Im_Q's Avatar
    Google did awhile ago what Apple is doing, although not using exactly the same method. Almost all devices running KitKat can use tap and pay (there are a few exceptions because of hardware limitations). With KitKat, Google brought HCE (Host Card Emulation) to Android. From what I understand, this basically uses software for the secure element rather than hardware. Carriers cannot block it.

    Here's an interesting Wikipedia page on HCE.
    I was referring to how Verizon blocked google wallet awhile back, not currently (or at least according to what I read at the time). But regarding the secure element business, yes Google went with software implementation but Microsoft decided to go with third party extensibility. I'm hoping this means, theoretically, some NFC payment vendors can do software secure element and others that want physical implementation like Secure Sim, we can partake in both. While the foresight is great, we're at the mercy of third party participation. That's why I created this UserVoice. We need to be loud and clear about what we want to have any influence. :)
    09-16-2014 07:42 AM
  13. realwarder's Avatar
    I have a NFC enabled Amex. Other than at about 3 stores it's just not usable. A phone would therefore be just as useless.

    Step 1 in any NFC payment system is to get a lot more terminals out there. At that point it becomes useful to support it.

    Thankfully with the big US push to move away from magnetic strips, as terminals get upgraded quite a few should gain NFC... so in a year or two it may be worth a phone supporting it.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    09-16-2014 08:00 AM
  14. Im_Q's Avatar
    I have a NFC enabled Amex. Other than at about 3 stores it's just not usable. A phone would therefore be just as useless.

    Step 1 in any NFC payment system is to get a lot more terminals out there. At that point it becomes useful to support it.

    Thankfully with the big US push to move away from magnetic strips, as terminals get upgraded quite a few should gain NFC... so in a year or two it may be worth a phone supporting it.
    I'm aware of the lack of NFC terminals but I'm hoping the Apple-centric tech-media in the US will help push for wider adoption of the tech. While that's going on, we should take advantage of it and get some implementation going so we're not left behind.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    09-16-2014 08:48 AM
  15. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I...Microsoft decided to go with third party extensibility...
    ​I've now linked my PayPal into my Wallet. It draws from my debit card anyway if the PP account is dry. Hopefully that is 3rd party security worthy of enabling Tap-to-Pay. Will test soon and report. PayPal would be very international in recognition so here's hoping...
    09-16-2014 09:57 AM
  16. Im_Q's Avatar
    ​I've now linked my PayPal into my Wallet. It draws from my debit card anyway if the PP account is dry. Hopefully that is 3rd party security worthy of enabling Tap-to-Pay. Will test soon and report. PayPal would be very international in recognition so here's hoping...
    I just played around a bit with the PayPal app. How do you link it to the Wallet app? I didn't see an option to do that.
    09-16-2014 10:42 AM
  17. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Wallet > + > Log in to PayPal > Verify on PP App...

    I think. Can't find the path now as I'm OK'ed in.
    09-16-2014 01:32 PM
  18. ashram's Avatar
    i haven't seen it work (had paypal enabled on mine FOREVER) also have other cards saved in it (due to online purchases from microsoft directly) We are at the mercy of the carriers and providers. Softcard STILL says soon.... the same thing they have said since the ICON launched. Problem with softcard is that it only works with American Express, Chase and Wells Fargo. If you have anyone else, you'd have to set up an American Express Serve account and use it kind of like paypal.
    09-16-2014 01:57 PM
  19. Im_Q's Avatar
    Yeah I can't get PayPal to link with Wallet. It doesn't even show up on the list of available Wallet integrated apps. And if Softcard is only for Amex, Chase, and Wells Fargo like you say, then we still need to push for this Visa token service since it looks like one implementation won't satisfy everyone. I have a BoA card but it's issued by Visa.

    The new Wallet apis for WP8.1 WinRT apps are pretty cool and robust though. I may ping a few companies and ask if I can write the apps for them (unlikely but I can dream can't I? )
    RumoredNow likes this.
    09-16-2014 02:44 PM
  20. tgp's Avatar
    My prediction is that before Softcard is up and running on WP, Microsoft will provide a workaround like Apple & Google did. I think that the very first WP payment via tap to pay will not be via Softcard. In fact, if that's the case, Softcard probably never will be activated on WP.
    09-16-2014 02:58 PM
  21. wpfan2be's Avatar
    Disgusted, look what I just got thru email...
    "COMING SOON Enjoy all the benefits and security of your Citi Card* using Apple Pay™ on the new iPhone 6. It’s a simple way to pay.
    Quick and Easy Payments With Apple Pay, you can use your camera to upload a digital version of your Citi Card into your iPhone 6 to use at over 200,000 stores and counting. Another way Citi provides quick and easy payments."

    Citibank does not even have a WP app, only IOS & Google, and of course they support more from Apple. I emailed them almost weekly regarding WP, no answer...

    I'm looking for another bank...
    09-18-2014 05:22 PM
  22. jplumia820's Avatar
    Disgusted, look what I just got thru email...
    "COMING SOON Enjoy all the benefits and security of your Citi Card* using Apple Pay on the new iPhone 6. Its a simple way to pay.
    Quick and Easy Payments With Apple Pay, you can use your camera to upload a digital version of your Citi Card into your iPhone 6 to use at over 200,000 stores and counting. Another way Citi provides quick and easy payments."

    Citibank does not even have a WP app, only IOS & Google, and of course they support more from Apple. I emailed them almost weekly regarding WP, no answer...

    I'm looking for another bank...
    Got a similar email from chase bank..... Hope they add"apple pay" to windows phone 😠
    09-20-2014 09:23 PM
  23. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I got a similar one from Bank of America... At least they have a WP App and I can use mobile deposit.

    ​I really think the hold up is not the banks... It's the carriers who decided that an additional authentication step is required and they built Isis (now Softcard) to provide that extra authentication layer.
    09-22-2014 05:38 PM
  24. wpfan2be's Avatar
    Hence why Apple took the carriers down by creating their own Apple pay. Maybe Microsoft will learn someday.
    09-22-2014 06:52 PM
  25. Im_Q's Avatar
    Hence why Apple took the carriers down by creating their own Apple pay. Maybe Microsoft will learn someday.
    Not completely true, Apple announced that they're adding support to carrier's mobile payment methods in the future. This is one of the few times Apple is allowing competing technology on their platform and someone pointed out that it may be the carriers pressuring Apple. So if that's the case, if Apple can't force their standards despite carrier's say, then what chance does Microsoft have?
    09-23-2014 01:20 PM
49 12

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