03-16-2014 08:36 AM
33 12
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  1. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    I need a minute folks. It would take a long time to explain myself so instead try to give me the benefit of the doubt. A long story short, I am very extremely anti-Google and try to do whatever I can, no matter how small, to keep any single piece of data, any statistic, any metric whatsoever from Google Inc and it has been burning my arse since the release of BlackBerry 10 that they have Android onboard. I have many years with BlackBerry and actually switched back from a Q10 to my old Bold 9930. For my usage needs, OS 7 worked just fine so I'm OK with being "legacy", but I found out doing some digging that some elements of even BBOS7 utilizes code from Google and the AOSP as well.

    After a many years deep stretch of loyalty to the brand, I just found this out about OS7 today that has screwed my day up to say the very least.

    In this, I'm here to ask if anyone knows anything at all with regards to if there is any code from Google anywhere within Windows Phone, be it an element of the browser, the core of the OS itself, anything? I have no idea what exactly is being utilized in BBOS7 regarding the Android codebase, yet its there. I'm also digging into iOS, I'm that determined to have a mobile OS that does not have even a single line of code from Google onboard if that's even possible.

    PS: I am asking about the OS itself and built-in software (such as the browser), not external/third-party apps and the like.
    03-06-2014 01:03 PM
  2. AR2186's Avatar
    Can't guarantee it, but you're pretty unlikely to find any Google code in Windows Phone or iOS. Given how avidly google is avoiding Windows Phone, it may be your best bet (and Apple used to have partnerships with Google).
    03-06-2014 01:09 PM
  3. Jas00555's Avatar
    To the best of my knowledge, no. The kernel is entirely different, and the OS is pretty locked down, so I don't think any open source code would be in it. The only thing that I can think of is that in IE 10, it gives you the option to change your search engine (on the browser) to Google instead of Bing.
    03-06-2014 01:11 PM
  4. jmshub's Avatar
    Windows is closed source, and it's based off the Win NT kernal, so I doubt there is any Google code in there. I am not a big fan of Google these days, but I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to avoid. If you're using a Google service, you will be subject to all of the tracking that Google utilizes in it's services. But, if a Google employee would contribute to an open source library, for instance, it won't be calling back to the Goog mothership for any reason.
    anon5354051 likes this.
    03-06-2014 01:14 PM
  5. Jan Tomsic's Avatar
    Well there is an option to select google as your default search engine and another occurrence of google is where you set up your accounts, once you log in your google account there is email, contacts and calendar. I think this is all from google in the whole OS, but I highy doubt google wrote any of it.
    Oh, and a microsoft written YouTube app that google blocked (and can be removed)

    Google keeps blocking microsoft from any google service so I really doubt google went undercover and wrote some background system process.
    03-06-2014 01:17 PM
  6. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    I thought BlackBerry OS7 was closed source for sure, I just can't find where code from the AOSP is being utilized, my guess is the browser as its based on webkit and maybe there's something there. As for BB10 its extremely obvious, an Android has an entire native tree in the filesystem. Although also closed source, its a good point, the NT kernel has been around for a long time and I'm fairly certain as well it's purely MS. Is the rendering engine of mobile IE Trident?
    03-06-2014 01:37 PM
  7. jmshub's Avatar
    . Is the rendering engine of mobile IE Trident?
    Yes.
    03-06-2014 02:14 PM
  8. Jas00555's Avatar
    I thought BlackBerry OS7 was closed source for sure, I just can't find where code from the AOSP is being utilized, my guess is the browser as its based on webkit and maybe there's something there. As for BB10 its extremely obvious, an Android has an entire native tree in the filesystem. Although also closed source, its a good point, the NT kernel has been around for a long time and I'm fairly certain as well it's purely MS. Is the rendering engine of mobile IE Trident?
    Yeah, dude, NT has been around longer than Google has been in existence, so it's fair to say that none of the code is Google-based.

    Now, with that being said, there are some Google bits in WP such as the support for Gmail and 8.1 is suppose to include support for Google Calendar, but if you don't use those services, you'll never touch them.

    Yes, it's Trident.
    03-06-2014 03:21 PM
  9. SSgt Bruskowiz's Avatar
    Google is something else than Android, Droid can excist without Google, But Google not without Droid.
    Look at the X series of Nokia, Its Droid, but not Google.

    And no one can say there is yes or no "Droid" code in the OS.
    Because no one has dig that far in the OS.
    But comon sense says why use Droidcode in a completely other ecosystem?
    It wont work, so i think its save to say NO

    BUT, yes i know, always a but.
    If the gossips are correct and MS is trying to implement in the future something that gives users the oppertunity to use some Droidapplications
    Then there is no choise than to use some droidcode, otherwhise it cant do the "translation" between the Apk data and the WP os.

    Apps are a completely different story.
    Some apps are rebuild from APK to XAP and not always on the cleanest way.
    Sure, the code is dorment and wont work with in the WP ecosystem, but as i said thats a other story.
    03-06-2014 07:11 PM
  10. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    You do realize that Google, Microsoft and Apple - all have some patents under their wings? Some technological advances in mobile space would halt if they didn't use these patented elements from each other after paying some license. For example, Nokia has patents for something as core to mobile as SMS or MMS (can't remember what) - but Nokia's patent portfolio includes ridiculously day to day use stuff for mobiles. Apple, Microsoft or Google everyone need to use those features for their phones. They have no way out. They pay the fees and use it. Doesn't mean they are using Nokia technology per say but means they are using Nokia tech anyway.

    So some elements of any mobile OS that depends on Google's patented tech, will be used by all OS. Does it mean Google benefits from it? Yes, but not from you, from Blackberry or Microsoft. Is it different that Google using your data for their own benefit and selling it? Yes. It is totally different and you are not giving away your data by using an OS that depends on AOSP. However, you should worry if BBM backend is based on Google Hangouts. If you find such code, be worried, very worried.
    03-07-2014 05:12 AM
  11. AR2186's Avatar
    You do realize that Google, Microsoft and Apple - all have some patents under their wings? Some technological advances in mobile space would halt if they didn't use these patented elements from each other after paying some license. For example, Nokia has patents for something as core to mobile as SMS or MMS (can't remember what) - but Nokia's patent portfolio includes ridiculously day to day use stuff for mobiles. Apple, Microsoft or Google everyone need to use those features for their phones. They have no way out. They pay the fees and use it. Doesn't mean they are using Nokia technology per say but means they are using Nokia tech anyway.

    So some elements of any mobile OS that depends on Google's patented tech, will be used by all OS. Does it mean Google benefits from it? Yes, but not from you, from Blackberry or Microsoft. Is it different that Google using your data for their own benefit and selling it? Yes. It is totally different and you are not giving away your data by using an OS that depends on AOSP. However, you should worry if BBM backend is based on Google Hangouts. If you find such code, be worried, very worried.
    Just a heads up, patents basically have nothing to do with code. A patent is basically a way to copyright a method of doing something that you were the first to think of, not the actual code to accomplish it. Apple has a patent on their method for Multitouch in the US, which is why early android phones released here didn't have it built in until google created another way to accomplish it that didn't violate the patent. No code was exchanged, and given that code for Android (Linux) work on iOS (Unix kernel derivative) and Windows Phone (Windows NT kernel), you pretty much cant have overlap
    03-07-2014 07:55 AM
  12. Pranjal Rai's Avatar
    i think you need to keep a cool head....avoiding lagdroid is something else and Google as a company on the whole is a different thing, maybe you're too desperate, i dont know...but to answer your question, wp8 is your best bet
    (but seriously dude, think about what i said....i don't understand that much intense hatred)
    03-07-2014 08:07 AM
  13. brainwaved's Avatar
    The only thing that I can think of is that in IE 10, it gives you the option to change your search engine (on the browser) to Google instead of Bing.

    I didn't recall that IE thing. Ty for that :D here's another connection in the OS with google:
    If you open your "email+accounts" section in settings, you will find that there is an option for adding your google account and synchronizing it. You can rename the account name and pin it to start (like your hotmail acc). It acts EXACTLY like the live/hotmail account application. You can view your inbox, browse folders, add another account; in short: it acts just like a basic gmail application. This is the most significant connection with google that i can think of.







    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 520 using Tapatalk
    03-07-2014 08:41 AM
  14. E Lizzle's Avatar
    Just a heads up, patents basically have nothing to do with code.
    Software patents, which are insanely common in the tech industry, have everything to do with code.

    -E
    rockstarzzz likes this.
    03-07-2014 01:25 PM
  15. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    Software patents, which are insanely common in the tech industry, have everything to do with code.

    -E
    Sigh. No, not at all.

    A patent cannot be granted for a specific piece of code, or body of code. You can write something in C++ and patent it - does that mean I can now re-implement it in Haskell or something and get another patent? No, that would make no sense...

    One can only be granted for a specific concept, or method of accomplishing a given task. For example, maybe Motorola can patent the concept of having a low-power dedicated processor for always-on voice recognition. They would patent this concept, not the exact designs of the chip which does this, not the firmware of that chip, not the driver binaries and not the part of Android which interfaces with such a chip. Anyone who accomplished always-on voice recognition by having a low-power chip would then violate this patent.

    The final kicker is that all patents and the contents of a patent application are, by law, public. So if you are correct and software patents are all about code, MS would have to make source code publicly known.
    03-07-2014 01:42 PM
  16. E Lizzle's Avatar
    I didn't say anything about "specific piece of code". I said software patents have everything to do with code. And they do. They describe how to code a particular solution. You cannot use that method to code a solution unless you license the patent.

    -E
    03-07-2014 02:32 PM
  17. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    Well as an update here I've spent time reading MS's TOU, third party acknowledgments, and of course digging around on the web.

    I am certain WP is free of any Google or Android codebase whatsoever. I can't even find anything Microsoft is using patent wise owned by Google Inc. The ability to use Google as a default search in the browser or to link a Gmail account is an option for something to connect to, but does not use any special software to make it happen, or that is to say if you don't have a Gmail and don't use Google search, then it is entirely possible to have not one line of code from any of the above onboard.

    The years of loyalty and emotional attachment to BlackBerry are very hard to fully let go of knowing I don't technically have to, its strictly a personal thing that I probably cannot justify to anyone else but myself (which I should think is the most important thing at the end of the day.) At any rate, I guess this is really going to happen. A voluntary, full-scale jump to Windows Phone. I suppose Microsoft sure won't mind.

    PS: on the subject of patents I'm thoroughly amused that Google pays MS considerably per device sold for sets of patents they are licensing from MS. Kind of funny.
    sahib lopez likes this.
    03-07-2014 03:12 PM
  18. Pranjal Rai's Avatar
    Maybe Google didn't rape YOUR sister.
    Really, they did that to you??? How sad.... :(
    03-07-2014 10:20 PM
  19. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    Well as an update here I've spent time reading MS's TOU, third party acknowledgments, and of course digging around on the web.

    I am certain WP is free of any Google or Android codebase whatsoever. I can't even find anything Microsoft is using patent wise owned by Google Inc. The ability to use Google as a default search in the browser or to link a Gmail account is an option for something to connect to, but does not use any special software to make it happen, or that is to say if you don't have a Gmail and don't use Google search, then it is entirely possible to have not one line of code from any of the above onboard.

    The years of loyalty and emotional attachment to BlackBerry are very hard to fully let go of knowing I don't technically have to, its strictly a personal thing that I probably cannot justify to anyone else but myself (which I should think is the most important thing at the end of the day.) At any rate, I guess this is really going to happen. A voluntary, full-scale jump to Windows Phone. I suppose Microsoft sure won't mind.

    PS: on the subject of patents I'm thoroughly amused that Google pays MS considerably per device sold for sets of patents they are licensing from MS. Kind of funny.
    I'd like to know more about what seems to be an unreasonable degree of hatred towards a corporate entity. Any chance you can tell us the long story? :D

    Also, on your last point: Google doesn't pay MS anything, it's the OEMs like Samsung et al. This is widely believed to be due to the fact that some Android phones, those with SD card slots, use the FAT32 filesystem and they pay MS a fee for this. It is not applicable to other handsets.

    Finally: there have been rumours of a possible Dalvik/ART runtime emulator that may become available for WP, allowing it to run some Android apps. This may sound highly unlikely, but after the Nokia X announce nothing seems impossible anymore...
    03-07-2014 10:30 PM
  20. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    I'd like to know more about what seems to be an unreasonable degree of hatred towards a corporate entity. Any chance you can tell us the long story? :D

    Also, on your last point: Google doesn't pay MS anything, it's the OEMs like Samsung et al. This is widely believed to be due to the fact that some Android phones, those with SD card slots, use the FAT32 filesystem and they pay MS a fee for this. It is not applicable to other handsets.

    Finally: there have been rumours of a possible Dalvik/ART runtime emulator that may become available for WP, allowing it to run some Android apps. This may sound highly unlikely, but after the Nokia X announce nothing seems impossible anymore...
    Google pays MSFT for their Nexus devices. All Androids in some or the other way end up using Microsoft's patented technology. Remember, Microsoft is the leader in tech who laid out the foundation of what computers, consoles and phones are today.
    03-08-2014 07:29 AM
  21. AR2186's Avatar
    Google pays MSFT for their Nexus devices. All Androids in some or the other way end up using Microsoft's patented technology. Remember, Microsoft is the leader in tech who laid out the foundation of what computers, consoles and phones are today.
    Google, and Motorola until they are acquired by Lenovo, are actually two of the only Android makers that don't pay Microsoft (though LG may on the Nexus devices).
    03-10-2014 08:53 AM
  22. tgp's Avatar
    Google, and Motorola until they are acquired by Lenovo, are actually two of the only Android makers that don't pay Microsoft (though LG may on the Nexus devices).
    I thought Microsoft was paid only on Android devices that have an SD card because of the FAT32 format. Is it something else?
    03-10-2014 09:03 AM
  23. neonspark's Avatar
    there is surely code that is meant to interact with google services in the form of email, and possible handling youtube videos. However I wouldn't say it is tracking you. Keep in mind however that WP completely lacks a browser ecosystem due to the stupidity of the MSFT leadership and their paranoia of native interop. Therefore you can make android more private and more secure than the locked down WP. You can kill the google services, run browsers designed with privacy in mind. With WP the best you can hope for is giving the finger to google, but that's a about it. IE mobile is a mediocre browser made even more mediocre by the lack of competition. It's like IE back in the windows days before FF light up a fire under their arse!
    03-10-2014 04:52 PM
  24. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    I'd like to know more about what seems to be an unreasonable degree of hatred towards a corporate entity. Any chance you can tell us the long story? :D

    Also, on your last point: Google doesn't pay MS anything, it's the OEMs like Samsung et al. This is widely believed to be due to the fact that some Android phones, those with SD card slots, use the FAT32 filesystem and they pay MS a fee for this. It is not applicable to other handsets.

    Finally: there have been rumours of a possible Dalvik/ART runtime emulator that may become available for WP, allowing it to run some Android apps. This may sound highly unlikely, but after the Nokia X announce nothing seems impossible anymore...
    From what i've read, MS is making big money on this stuff, and I was under the impression it was because of patented technologies present in Android the OS, not so much just the guys building the hardware but if that's how it is, there is still some funny sense or irony there, so I think :)

    As for Google Inc, i'm sure my disdain may be unreasonable but in my view they represent the ultimate intrusion in privacy and personal data mining. Their capabilities for data collection seem to run unnecessarily deep and that caveat is tied to literally ever product and/or service they offer. Android in its root approach is a stroke of genius at it's tactic is clever: penetration by making it's OS free. You are at that point tied into Google services left and right which has its own data mining capacities but that aside, the OS itself once activated is a total data mining farm. Seriously, Google doesn't exactly have any concept of the word privacy, and to me its far far more about principle rather than having anything to hide. If that precept does not make any sense, then there is no way to explain myself further.

    Next up, I am stubborn and unforgiving when it comes to tech, and when I can see valid reasons to hate something and want nothing to do with it, I will. Google's own CEO once described Google Inc as "an advertising platform first, a services company second." I would not trust something as heavily as I do my smartphone to a company with such a philosophy. Targeted advertising thru data collection is a part of using the internet but I am convinced Google takes it a little too deep and I could neither respect nor appreciate such excessive attempts at nailing one's data privacy. I hate their Android OS so much, such a horribly broken OS. It's Linux kernel is around 15 million lines of cod, not to mention a huge Java layer on top. The Linux kernel is a mess with stuff in there like developer comments that say things like "is this supposed to he here". To understand what I mean research the differences between the Linux kernel and the BSD kernel to better understand what I mean. Very processor inefficient which is why you need massive hardware to make it run smooth and perform really well. Android is still the least secure platform on the market, and even companies with the size and money of Samsung have not been hugely successful (with reference to Knox) in making Android secure. There are plenty of entities out there of all sizes who support Android (alongside everything else) at the Enterprise level, but not exclusively and only Android is one I've ever read posts and opinions from IT admins who proclaim they won't go anywhere near it or have dubbed it a security nightmare. If you believe my opinion of how awful Android data security is, step away from this conversation for a minute and do a small handful of searches on Android security, Android malware, Android data breaches, etc.

    Do forgive all of my rambling. I do that. All I can say is that I have far too many ideas of things involving Google Inc that I find unacceptable and even if every single opinion I hold is dead wrong (and I know I'm not about their data mining and anti-privacy practices, its in their various fine prints), I nonetheless will not associate myself with anything to do with them. They don't offer anything I can't find elsewhere and to me they are devious because they offer services and products like Android that people love, that genuinely rock and are fantastic for all sorts of people, but at what cost? Again, we're talking about a sort of personal principle here that you either understand or do not, so it has nothing to do with the context of my text messages or something silly like that.
    And I love ttinfoil hats.
    HoosierDaddy likes this.
    03-15-2014 02:45 PM
  25. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    I'm going to apologize by the way for grammar or spelling typos, I am having a real struggle having to concentrate so hard on typing via this virtual keyboard. I've relied on a real qwerty for so many years. My typing speed floated around 70wpm+ with my BlackBerrys, now I wouldn't want to know and I no longer get the luxury of not needing to look down at the keyboard to type. Hope I get there someday lol :D
    03-15-2014 02:50 PM
33 12

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