09-08-2012, 06:59 PM #2
- 390 Posts
Sometimes people on the internet are just haters. No conspiracy necessary. If you've got any evidence that someone here is an actual shill (a paid employee posing as a customer giving allegedly-neutral feedback for his employer and against his employer's competitors), I'd like to see it.
Personally, I'm tired of BOTH extremes.
On one hand, it was wrong to not put a "simulated images" disclaimer on the ad. It should have been there immediately and it's misleading advertising to have lacked it. No need to excuse the ad.
But I'm also sick of people acting like the ad, or the half-dozen Nokia employees "picketing" the Ativ S's launch, were paramount to throwing children in a wood-chipper. Not a single customer was deceived into buying a product because the product wasn't on sale and the correction was issued the same day as the ad debuted. And misleading ad or no, the phone looks like a good total package with a possibly-class-leading camera.
09-08-2012, 07:21 PM #3
- 1,038 Posts
I'm a Windows Phone advocate first and foremost. I'm not an employee of any tech company, but I'm extremely enthusiastic about the platform. When I find a product I really like, I absolutely rally behind it. Right now, my OEM preference is Nokia, but you need only read my thread about the experience I had at the launch event to understand why.
I won't bash another Windows Phone product, however. It's a matter of us all being on the same team, after all.
Actually, I don't tend to bash Android much either, although I didn't like the platform much when I used it. The only company I hate is Apple.
I generally try to be objective in my posts, or at least point out my opinions versus a fact. Even though I'll defend my opinions until proven wrong, I do appreciate when people call me on a matter that I'm being extreme on.
- 09-08-2012, 09:13 PM #4
I don't think there's any shortage of people on the internet that will complain loudly at anything that differs from their own personal preferences. I'd be very surprised if anyone actually was paid to do it. There are plenty that would do it for free.
- 09-08-2012, 09:21 PM #5
I am amazed at the people on here that are dogging Nokia and ready to jump on the Samsung bandwagon when we haven't seen a full run through of WP8 much less the entire feature set of the 920 and the Ativ. The Samsung might very well be a better phone, but at this point we know so little about either of the phones.
- 09-08-2012, 10:30 PM #7
To be honest, nothing of what was said/shown at the Nokia event or opinions of users here ever sway me one direction or the other. Both Ativ S and the 920 are in the running for me. In the long run, personal preference is all that matters to me.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
- 09-08-2012, 10:38 PM #8
Other than the criticism for the simulated camera images (which rightfully deserved criticsm and Nokia has apologized for), I have not seen any overtly negative comments by the press.
Almost all of the reviews on various sites have been positive.
I do not see any conspiracy here.
09-09-2012, 02:05 AM #9
- 242 Posts
Well, while most reviews/previews I've read are fair (except for a certain German Tabloid who mostly finds nothing has a chance against a device with a bitten fruit on it), I see the most hate/despise from commenters. And there, every big smartphone producer is in a drawer:
Nokia as a) the underdog fighting for survival ("Without avail" as a second option on that drawer) or as an old(fashioned) company or b) the company that produces devices that can be used as body armour,
Apple as a) either the company that rules the world and invented everything or b) the unimaginative company that became the evil that they wanted to fight,
Samsung as a) the company that copies everything or b) the company that gives the users more choices and freedom,
HTC as the company that is a little boring,
Sony as the company that just isn't interesting anymore,
RIM as RIP or as company that produces devides for yuppies (one doesn't see many BB devices in private people's hands, it has never been very popular in my country),
Microsoft as the company that produces software that will go bluescreen and attract viruses,
and so on.
(Please note that these examples don't mirror my personal opionion. Well, with one exception, to be honest :P)
Some company names/devices just seem to trigger this or the other opinion. Seems to be human nature to put things in drawers and leave them there as opposed to reevaluate ones opionion which is much more timeconsuming ...
(I'm very glad I spent some time reavluating WP, because earlier I was one of the people afraid of bluescreen which kept me from getting a HTC WP device in 2011)
- 09-09-2012, 06:42 AM #10
If you look through some of my posts, I can be seen as a fanboy to a troll in what I have to say about the platform and the marketing of the platform. I like to think I'm pretty objective about it when the truth comes out.
When I am in the market for a new phone or anything for that matter, it simply comes down to two things. What fits my needs and what is available. My carrier is Sprint and as has been read about here and elsewhere, there aren't any options available to me. I really don't care what others have to say unless it is factual input when it comes to rating a particular platform or device. The remaining, emotional attack, I pretty much ignore.
- 09-09-2012, 06:54 AM #11
Most sites I've seen have been perfectly fine, but the amount of vitriolic nonsense I've seen from commenters makes me want to believe they are being paid. (Not commenters from here)
Last edited by AngryNil; 09-09-2012 at 07:33 AM.
- 09-09-2012, 09:01 AM #12
Maybe some people are just disappointed in what Nokia had to offer? Nobody is paying me for nothing and my way of talking is a little blunt so pardon me if you get the wrong idea for my post.
But in my perspective haven't done much positive in the latest day, there's no reason for their phones to be worse (subjective) than a Samsung hand me down. ( btw I still see more Original Samsung Focus than Lumia 900's in the wild in this year!!!)
09-09-2012, 09:43 AM #13
- 266 Posts
I'm surprised at the negativity on here toward Nokia and WP8
I'm an Android user, who is switching to WP8 as finally MS have a product that I can see will make my life easier. Earlier versions of WP were crippled as an OS compared to Android or IOS, but with WP8, MS, while not completely there, have made massive strides to what everyone knows is a well thought out OS.
While Win8 gets alot of stick, it is actually a good operating system, yes, not for corporates, but providing a bit of time is put in to understanding metro, it is a good OS, and I think it will drive sales of WP8 as people will want the same environment between their phone and desktop.
MS have achieved several milestones for this
SD card support
Multi CPU support
Shared code base
All these things will go together to create a seamless transfer between the fixed and mobile experience. Android and IOS can't give me that yet, though IOS comes closest.
With the cloud support baked into W8 and O2013, WP8 really makes sense.
Nokia have released two great phones, and I think support will ramp up from other manufacturers as the desktop OS will drive the mobile OS as Microsoft are still a massive force in IT and can dictate the market to a point.
Im tempted by Nokia as their apps do add value, I feel that with Samsung or HTC, I will back to how I am in Android, cool apps, no integration. For a direct comparison, Im thinking google maps and goggles, two apps that should work together but don't unlike maps and city lens for Nokia. I will wait to see what HTC do, i might be tempted, who knows
So I feel that although the new devices are arriving, and are good, we really have yet to see what the best part is going forward, I think that will be WP8 and the integration between phone and PC, which for MS will be a unique selling point and I for one can't wait.
So hang in there guys, this is going to be a very intersting 6 months or so...
- 09-09-2012, 11:32 AM #14
I am beginning to think that the Nokia hate is an extension of the Microsoft hate, through association. Having worked with computers for 30 years (yes, I had two Osborne's) I don't fully understand the reasoning behind either. My Microsoft relationship has always been a love/hate thing. Loved when I could do amazing things and hated when things went wrong. But I would always ask myself, am I better off with or without Microsoft. For me, the answer was obvious.
Not sure if the Nokia negativity is because these commenters have been denied the ability to own and use a Lumia (900 in particular) on the network of their choice, or because Microsoft has worked out a win-win financial arrangement that they feel is unfair in some sort of way. If they don't like a device for whatever reason, don't buy it. But why knock it because of your personal preferences.
I try to be objective to a point. And have never been swayed to go with the most popular, simply because it's the most popular. If I have had a terrible experience with a product or service, I will share that information as a public service. And likewise, if I have had a good experience I will share that, only if asked. But ultimately, I tell those who ask, the choice of product is theirs alone. I suggest they do some research and weigh the benefits/pitfalls before making a decision. I have no interest in anyone who tries to preach to me.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
09-09-2012, 12:00 PM #15
- 1,698 Posts
I remember the days of expressing my love for iOS when the iPod Touch was released. From there on I got an iPhone and was genuinely passionate about, what I thought at the time was, revolutionary. I spent time on forums and with friends & family spreading the word. I guess it's just something we do, if you're passionate about gadgets.
I spent some time with Blackberry, but although the user-experience was quite efficient, I can't recall going out of my way to talk about it. Windows Phone is the platform to re-ignite my love for smartphones, and just as I did with iOS, I'll continue to give my honest opinion regarding it.
- 09-09-2012, 12:23 PM #18
- 09-09-2012, 12:27 PM #19
It was a bad move by Nokia. But some have taken it and blown it up into more than it was.
Some people also consistently ONLY present an incomplete story, conveniently forgetting to note REAL images that have been verified by tech new sites.
- 09-09-2012, 01:09 PM #22
How come every time a fan of a product sees something other than endless adulation of his preferred product, he imagines complex conspiracy theories?
I've been accused of being paid by Google, Microsoft, and now Nokia competitors, simply for pointing out serious flaws with products or strategies.
If you don't like the criticism, you can ignore it. But give the "paid poster" conspiracy theories a rest.
PS -- Ever consider that the source of our fury MIGHT be the "overpromise, underdeliver" problem Nokia has?
To claim that you're going to deliver a product better than the ATIV S, and "dine on Jellybeans," and then present fake videos of features that aren't yet working, along with prototype phones with no pricing or release date, tends to tick WP people invested in the ecosystem off.
If you have nothing to show (and Nokia had nothing to show, face it), then don't make promises you can't keep.
- 09-09-2012, 01:15 PM #24
We should stop whining about Apple.
Sure, their products are often nothing special.
But they deliver them. Every time. On time.
Where are our shiny new WP8 handsets? Nowhere to be found. We don't even have an official ship date.
Sadly, Apple will have an official ship date a week after the "big Nokia event" that was supposed to scoop them... and we STILL won't.
We need to stop pretending WP8 is in the race. Until product is shipped, it's not an option for ANYONE.
- 09-09-2012, 01:23 PM #25
Maybe it's not an option for the masses (that only know about the products they see in stores), but god, we are people too :P