[3acres]

Is it the case that Denim firmware takes care of most of not all future OS improvements or does anyone definitively know if Windows 10 will require new Lumia firmware? I am kind of wondering if the Denim firmware opens up the phones feature set for broader updates/improvements or if each OS update requires new exact firmware.

[realwarder]

No. The OS does not need any more hardware access which is all firmware provides.

[Lance_WPCentral]

I'm sure Windows 10 will require a firmware update. Firmware is phone specific while the OS is general to all models.

[Marcelo Velazquez]

If the preview will use the new NT 10.x, it must need drivers optimized for the new kernel.

[realwarder]

I'm sure Windows 10 will require a firmware update. Firmware is phone specific while the OS is general to all models.

The purpose of firmware is to bridge the OS and hardware. Drivers in Windows already talk to existing firmware. That is not changing.

Windows 10 will be about high level changes (screen/WinRT), not low level.

[msirapian]

What you call Denim firmware won't open the Lumias to anything new, or to be clear, you won't need the Denim firmware to get the WP10 preview.

Why? Because unless you have a 830/930/152, your Lumia will get a minor or very minor update to Cyan (3051.50009.14xxxxxx) and GDR1. On low ends and older Pureview devices (920/925/1020), Denim is the name of the latest GDR1 with a Cyan update.

So you don't need "Denim", understood as a new branch of firmware, to get the preview. This has been confirmed, and for the reason I've just mentionned, by @nawzil on twitter.

But it doesn't mean that we won't get a new firmware later to enable new features. If these new features are not possible on the older devices because of HW limitations, it could be a Cyan update.

You have to understand that now that Microsoft have the control of OS and FW, it's not important where the changes are, as long as you get new features.

For instance: Microsoft said that Denim (not GDR1) will bring Weather/News on Glance. Finally, we got it by other means (my 1020 running 8.1.0 and Cyan has it).

So if I may, the question to know if W10 will require a new Lumia FW is not necessarily relevant, as long as we get as many new features our devices can support ;)

[3acres]

Because unless you have a 830/
You have to understand that now that Microsoft have the control of OS and FW...

I have a Lumia ICON (929) on of course Verizon Wireless, I have not heard of Microsoft gaining control of firmware updates, these still have to pass through Verizon and FCC. This would be great news, where have you read this?

[jmshub]

There will almost certainly be firmware updates to go along with Windows Phone 10. At the very least, there will be drivers to optimize the existing hardware with Windows 10.

[PepperdotNet]

It would be very smart for Microsoft to take anything that would traditionally have gone into a Lumia firmware release, and bake it into the base OS, since carriers drag their feet on firmware but we have ways (PfD) of getting the new OS bits. The best middle finger Microsoft could give to the carriers is to never have to release another new firmware for one of their phones.

[msirapian]

I have a Lumia ICON (929) on of course Verizon Wireless, I have not heard of Microsoft gaining control of firmware updates, these still have to pass through Verizon and FCC. This would be great news, where have you read this?

You're extrapolating what I said. I meant MS now is in charge of the OS (like before) and the FW (new, since they're an OEM). Still a fw still contains a RF part etc which will require carrier validation. But other features could swap to the OS.

So carrier wise, nothing will change. But if Microsoft can maximise what's inside the OS and minimise what's fw dependant, it would mean features available faster. Take the 1020. People can have Denim by just installing the preview for developers. The firmware won't bring much. That's what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear and gave you false hopes.

[3acres]

Oh, no, I read it wrong. I see you mean OS and FW is done under one roof, that being Microsoft, so you would think things would get released faster.

I'm no expert in firmware or statistics of firmware but I would think handling more features in the operating system software rather than in the firmware would slow things down. For example I would think the instant camera opening in 8.1 update utilizes advantages of firmware. I don't have cyan our denim yet but I have preview for devs and my camera app does not open instantly.

I would be interested to know more information about it from someone who works with actual smartphone firmware.

[msirapian]

They're both "firmware" technically. But some things HAVE to be in the firmware. The Camera part for instance, as it's tailored for each Lumia.

My 1020 got NOTHING new with cyan (but 8.1.0 which was the big change, the OS). The same when I'll get Denim. The FW should : fix a freeze bug (hardware) and fix a camera bug (no geotags in RAW files). No surprise that it's more a Cyan+ than a brand new Denim firmware (the firmware version will jump from 3051.50009.1424.00xx to 3051.50009.1447). For the 930, it changes from 02061.00066.14353.31004 to 02540.00019.14484.37003, so a bigger change. The firmware will "just" bring the lumia camera v5 tricks and hey cortana.

So that's why I say that a new firmware is not necessary to get dramatic changes on a Lumia (I'll get Cortana, live folders, etc.)