1. EdFrmBrighthand's Avatar
    I've been using my T-Mobile G1 as my primary phone a lot in the last few weeks, and one of the things I miss most is my Redfly.

    Celio demoed an Android version of the Redfly driver earlier this year (see here), and it can't be released too early for me.

    Any word on when this will be out?
    -
    06-06-2009 01:15 PM
  2. ckj's Avatar
    Sorry, Ed still no official timeline. We're shooting for a Q3-ish 2009 release, but I can't promise anything yet and we don't have any specific details to discuss right now. I can tell you that the work is progressing very nicely. I'll try to get another video posted showing the progress (if I can get approval) sometime soon. I'll also let you know if we do a beta program so you can try it out.
    06-08-2009 12:53 PM
  3. mholmes7's Avatar
    I would second Ed's comment for strategic reasons.

    As a terminal for someone else's product, the Redfly will always be hostage to the decisions of others; e.g., when/if to release new features, change APIs. Android support will not eliminate the problem, but it should limit it.

    Microsoft does not seem interested in 'upgrading' Windows Mobile to be a full computing-device OS -- given the potential to cannibalize XP/Vista/7 sales, this is understandable if shortsighted. I don't don't know if Google and the Handset Alliance are interested in such an upgrade, but it seems to be happening (cf. http://www.salon.com/tech/giga_om/ga...rce=newsletter).

    The more others extend the Android OS, the greater the potential for Android-based smartphones to become primary computing devices and Celio to piggyback on these efforts. The fact that Android uses an 'open' (Apache) license should also make it easier for Celio to make/keep its drivers compatible.

    Finally, diversifying technical risk across multiple options (in this case, OSs) is generally a good thing.

    Some thoughts on why I think Celio needs to support Android as soon as possible. I would like to hear other's views.
    06-09-2009 08:00 AM
  4. mr.griffin80's Avatar
    I bought my Redfly in November and I must say when I first purchased it, I was stoked about it. I took it with me to work everyday showing off how cool it was and how handy it was. I paid about 200 bucks for it which is a little less than a notebook. Like I said it started out good but how quikly did my perception change. This not an attempt to bad mouth the redfly but just my take on it. THis is just a list of some deal breakers for me and why I decided to put my fly on ebay and just get a netbook.

    1. Internet browsing
    The internet browsing is painfully bad. Even if you are using Opera 8.65 it is to slow to be functional. Pages take a while to load and scrolling is some what of a daunting task when you are browsing pages like WM expers, Boy genius report or slash gear.

    2. Not all programs are in full screen. I figured seeing as there is no chat client for ppc that I would use yahoo go and use the messenger that come with it. Imagine my heart break when I saw that it only took up a quarter of the screen

    3. Word processing is limited. Granted it is just a function of the ppc and their inability to upgrade the funtionality of pocket office. Its just not there yet.

    4. Inablity to watch video on my redfly. I have the C8 and they told me when I first purchased it that direct draw would be supported in the first quarter of this year for the C8 model. Here we are in June and they still cant give me a solid deadline as to when streaming video will work.

    5. Held prisoner to the OS. I have the omnia and I have been wanting to upgrade my rom to windows 6.5 but I cant do that because Celio does not have any time line in which it will be supported. Its been months since we have seen the proof of concept of android but yet it has not come to fruition.

    6. Remote desktop is choppy at best. I thought by getting this device I could make it into a virtual netbook by just logging into my network via remote desktop. Not impressed with it in the slightest. When its not hooked up the redfly remote desktop is servicble but when connected it is dreadfully useless.

    7. No universal home screen. Many of us have devices where the today screen does not translate to the redfly and you are left with a white screen where you can see some of the icons on the homescreen but you are left to try and figure out how to navigate the screen.

    8. Text messages. Trying to text message from this device was painful. I dont know whey the screen is so unresponsive when it comes to entering text for text messages. I called redfly and they say it is because of the device itself and not the redfly. Either way it was not cool at all.

    Whats good about the redfly

    1. Has 8hr of battery life. I liked the fact that I could go three or four days without having to charge it.

    2. Good for answering email on the fly without having to deal with thumb typing on your pda

    3. Google maps. If you have device that has GPS unlocked, you basically have a navigation system.


    Whats good about Netbooks!!!!!!

    I just bought my redfly and I will never look back. I just bout the HP mini 1050NR which gives you about three hours of battery life and is for the most part the same size as the redfly. Yeah I know it only gets three hours of battery life but experience is so much better than the redfly. I can do everything I need it to do. Its just a matter of time before netbooks will deliver the same about of battery life that the redfly delivers.

    Right now I am running windows XP but I will be upgrading it to vista premium sometime this weekend. I have office 2007 on it already. The screen is a glossy 10.1 inch screen with a built in webcam (sweeeet). Right now the only con is the battery life but the extened battery gets six hours battery life and I will be getting that or another three cell battery.

    Why 299 for the C8N when you can just get a netbook for the same price. The redfly was a good idea put the execution just isnt there. IF more operating systems were readily compatible there might be a case for it but as it right now the Redfly in my opinion needs a lot of work before it can hold its on.
    06-09-2009 03:18 PM
  5. Aware's Avatar
    Windows mobile has always been a full, if slightly tacky and under-exciting, computing OS. I laughed at the excitement yesterday over the great new features on the iPhone - copy/paste, turn-by-turn navigation, voice control and more. All of which have been available in Pocket PC for years.

    The way I understand Windows Phone 7, and 8 to follow, is that MS is busily updating functionality and interface to compete with iPhone and others. For instance:-

    Microsoft outlines what's coming in Windows Mobile 7, 8
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1052

    Coming early next year is Windows Mobile 6.1, a minor update to the current Windows Mobile platform that includes a number of interface enhancements.

    Next on the horizon is Windows Mobile 7, which will add zooming, scaling and a new suite of Win Mobile apps, including Internet Explorer, email, SMS and photo/music management, according to Gizmodo’s account. Gizmodo says “there’s talk about doing some sort of collaboration with the Zune team, but that’s still up in the air.”

    (I’ve been hearing talk that Microsoft is working on a suite of Live services that will work across Windows Mobile, Xbox 360, Zune and possibly Microsoft TV. Perhaps this will debut in the WIndows 7 timeframe, whatever that is.)

    After Windows Mobile 7 is … tada … Windows Mobile 8. Gizmodo’s synopsis:

    “This (Windows Mobile 8) is the version you’ve been waiting for, implementing a completely redesigned user interface, ‘revolutionary’ features like global search, and new concepts such as automation and connections within the phone, ideas borrowed from other smartphone operating systems. This means that you’ll be able to go from viewing a person’s address info in his contact card to seeing where he lives in map view in one click. There will be much more of this intuitive flow, and far less digging through menus.”

    Microsoft mission with the next few releases of Windows Mobile is to take a product that the company built to satisfy business/enterprise users and make it more palatable to consumers. Meanwhile, Apple is looking to do the inverse with the iPhone: Take a consumer platform and make it appealing to the business community by integrating more tightly the iPhone with Exchange Server, etc.


    Windows Mobile 7 Brief
    http://pocketpccentral.net/windows_mobile_7_brief.htm

    I'll not quote the post but it goes on about the Windows Phone 7 interface, all gestury and stuff.

    So far as interface is concerned, Windows Mobile has a lot of catching up to do, but it already has all the features and more of a modern 'full computing device' OS, IMHO.
    06-09-2009 03:19 PM
  6. mr.griffin80's Avatar
    I bought my Redfly in November and I must say when I first purchased it, I was stoked about it. I took it with me to work everyday showing off how cool it was and how handy it was. I paid about 200 bucks for it which is a little less than a notebook. Like I said it started out good but how quikly did my perception change. This not an attempt to bad mouth the redfly but just my take on it. THis is just a list of some deal breakers for me and why I decided to put my fly on ebay and just get a netbook.

    1. Internet browsing
    The internet browsing is painfully bad. Even if you are using Opera 8.65 it is to slow to be functional. Pages take a while to load and scrolling is some what of a daunting task when you are browsing pages like WM expers, Boy genius report or slash gear.

    2. Not all programs are in full screen. I figured seeing as there is no chat client for ppc that I would use yahoo go and use the messenger that come with it. Imagine my heart break when I saw that it only took up a quarter of the screen

    3. Word processing is limited. Granted it is just a function of the ppc and their inability to upgrade the funtionality of pocket office. Its just not there yet.

    4. Inablity to watch video on my redfly. I have the C8 and they told me when I first purchased it that direct draw would be supported in the first quarter of this year for the C8 model. Here we are in June and they still cant give me a solid deadline as to when streaming video will work.

    5. Held prisoner to the OS. I have the omnia and I have been wanting to upgrade my rom to windows 6.5 but I cant do that because Celio does not have any time line in which it will be supported. Its been months since we have seen the proof of concept of android but yet it has not come to fruition.

    6. Remote desktop is choppy at best. I thought by getting this device I could make it into a virtual netbook by just logging into my network via remote desktop. Not impressed with it in the slightest. When its not hooked up the redfly remote desktop is servicble but when connected it is dreadfully useless.

    7. No universal home screen. Many of us have devices where the today screen does not translate to the redfly and you are left with a white screen where you can see some of the icons on the homescreen but you are left to try and figure out how to navigate the screen.

    8. Text messages. Trying to text message from this device was painful. I dont know whey the screen is so unresponsive when it comes to entering text for text messages. I called redfly and they say it is because of the device itself and not the redfly. Either way it was not cool at all.

    Whats good about the redfly

    1. Has 8hr of battery life. I liked the fact that I could go three or four days without having to charge it.

    2. Good for answering email on the fly without having to deal with thumb typing on your pda

    3. Google maps. If you have device that has GPS unlocked, you basically have a navigation system.


    Whats good about Netbooks!!!!!!

    I just bought my redfly and I will never look back. I just bout the HP mini 1050NR which gives you about three hours of battery life and is for the most part the same size as the redfly. Yeah I know it only gets three hours of battery life but experience is so much better than the redfly. I can do everything I need it to do. Its just a matter of time before netbooks will deliver the same about of battery life that the redfly delivers.

    Right now I am running windows XP but I will be upgrading it to vista premium sometime this weekend. I have office 2007 on it already. The screen is a glossy 10.1 inch screen with a built in webcam (sweeeet). Right now the only con is the battery life but the extened battery gets six hours battery life and I will be getting that or another three cell battery.

    Why 299 for the C8N when you can just get a netbook for the same price. The redfly was a good idea put the execution just isnt there. IF more operating systems were readily compatible there might be a case for it but as it right now the Redfly in my opinion needs a lot of work before it can hold its on.
    06-09-2009 03:28 PM
  7. Aware's Avatar
    Why Vista? Go for Windows 7!

    Dell's Mini 10 now has a 1366x768 screen option, and 6 cell battery touting 5 hours (?) or so life. But it costs about $600 fully specced.

    I agree with your issues from a *consumer* perspective, but they do not override the beauty of the Redfly from a business perspective, vis: no hard drive or other hardware, cheap, low maintenance, no software costs, low TCO, negligible security risk etc.
    06-09-2009 09:51 PM
  8. mknollman's Avatar
    I also agreee - Windows 7 all the way.

    1 - it is free for a year,
    2 - it smokes on a netbook (most of which cannot even effectively run Vista),
    3 - it is new and still has that new OS smell to it.

    I loaded it on my full-size laptop and it is without a doubt THE BEST VERSION OF WINDOWS EVER - infact I would call it the best OS I have ever used including MAC and linux. Nicely done MS.

    PS - i know this is hijacking a little, but it seemed relevant to an above post.
    06-10-2009 05:39 PM
  9. jwebb56's Avatar
    Mr Griffin: it would appear you were never really the intended consumer that Celio is targeting for the Redfly. Until phones get much more powerful (4x?) they will never be suitable for real work (i.e., office apps). But if all you mainly want is email, browsing, or light viewing of office app files, then the Redfly is ideal. And that's why I like it (along with the possibility of using it for GPS navigation in my car).

    Now back to the thread's topic

    I agree that Celio needs to expand their list of supported phones, including into non-WM devices. But please do not do that at the expense of the WM devices. It is very important that they stay current with those offerings or they'll alienate their core customer base. BTW, if Apple would cooperate a good argument could be made that the iPhone OS should be their first non-WM offering. MUCH larger target than Android or WebOS.
    06-10-2009 06:37 PM
  10. Aware's Avatar
    I think Symbian is a much better target. Nokia might not have the emotional excitement attache to it that the iPhone has, but Nokia blows iPhone out of the water on volume sales.

    Blackberry, Symbian and Windows Mobile all have much larger business presence than iPhone, and the business user is the target for Redfly.

    Now - will the new iPhone 3G s change things? Not really - once you read between the lines, it's just an incremental upgrade - and one that is mostly playing catch-up ... copy/past <cough>, turn-by-turn directions <choke>, 3 MP camera <awe cummon!>, voice control <jeeze>. Still a lovley interface though :-)

    And, to be frank, the iPhone works well enough, for it's audience, without a RedFly. But if we were talking about one of those netbook-esque devices that turns the iPhone into a touchpad, well that's a different story :-)

    Again, IMHO.
    06-10-2009 08:00 PM
  11. jwebb56's Avatar
    You're probably right about the iPhone users being ambivalent towards the Redfly. I'm not that familiar with Symbian but do know it has a very large market share. But I believe I've read that Nokia keeps it locked up pretty tight.

    Now Blackberry users just might flock to the Redfly. The key there though would be internet browsing in my opinion because it works just fine for their email usage as-is. But unfortunately the Blackberry is not known for a good internet browsing experience (yet).

    Anyone know just how big the Android market is right now and what its projected growth is?
    06-10-2009 10:07 PM
  12. mknollman's Avatar
    Well, this is one formerly dedicated Redfly proponent who just took the plunge: I just bought a factory refurb Acer Aspire. It has the atom processor (1.6ghz) 160gig hd, 3usb, wifi, sd slot, 8.9 screen, vga out, 6cell battery (3.5+ supposed battery life) and all the other customary outs/ins. I scored it for $230 shipped - which amazed me for the hardware specs it touts and is substantially cheaper than the c8n. My current plan is to pit the 2 devices against eachother in some real function tests from boot time to battery-life to surfing to multimedia. I really want to see which one can handle my day to day low power quick computing needs better.

    I hate doing this as until a few months ago I was touting my Redfly as making my full-size laptop never leave the bag. What has changed is the price and power of the netbook. Although I cannot argue that the Redfly has a place, I must admit that I see its niche moving from a slice to a sliver. This is unfortunate as it is a GREAT device that does precisely what it was designed to do. The only problem lies in the fact that what it was designed to do is just not enough for me.

    I think that like I have said above, Celio either needs to beef up the abilities or find a way to shrink the price (like sub $200 for the c8n) if they really hope to make money in the consumer market. In the end, like also mentioned above, the consumer market spills into the business market as people want to work and play on the same devices - I am rooting for you Celio, but I am afraid you are fighting an uphill battle here. Keep innovating and hopefully I will eat my words.

    I will be adding some notes to this thread or possibly starting a new one as I start my comparison.
    06-10-2009 11:56 PM
  13. Aware's Avatar
    "But I believe I've read that Nokia keeps it locked up pretty tight."

    Not really. Apple has the tightest grip on their hardware and software of all the phone OSs. My personal opinion has been that Windows Mobile and Symbian are the most open systems - although arguably Androis is surely more open, but since it has such tiny market share I don't give it much reading time right now.

    Android is currently about 1.5 million or 2 million sales. That's less than 5% of total iPhone sales. Annual iPhone sales run about 5% or less of Nokia sales, though not every Nokia phone is a 'smart' phone. Personally I have no interest in Android. It may be an open system, but it's so locked into Google and their snooping that I like it even less than iPhone.
    06-12-2009 09:42 AM
  14. jwebb56's Avatar
    I thought I remember reading that Symbian has over 40% of the market for Smartphones worldwide. Their US share is small though.

    Apple may have a tight grip but they have opened up enough to get a huge number of third party apps in their store. I do realize that many of those apps have a pretty narrow focus.

    Anyone else here getting nervous about the lack of Celio postings in this forum lately?
    06-12-2009 09:53 AM
  15. mknollman's Avatar
    I wouldn't tie Celio's folks decreased posts to anything but being busy. But I agree their input is always nice, and tends to solve issues.
    06-12-2009 10:51 AM
  16. Aware's Avatar
    most of the iPhone apps are crap - Pull My Finger, Bouncing Boobies, Tip Calulator etc ... there are apps for *everything - and, IMHO, most of them are silly toys that do stuff we can already do easily in other ways.

    Yet, crap or not, the only way you can market an app is if Apple approves it. e.g. http://www.tuaw.com/2009/06/12/app-s...ger-rejection/ This is not true of other platforms. *That's* where iPhone is still heavily locked down.

    The real winning feature of the iPhone Apps is the *perception* that developers can make oodles of cash easily. It's hard to imagine how most of them make any money with 99 cent Apps, but at 99c at least volume sales can look solid even for the most pathetic app.

    **Yes I know there are some fantastic Apps for th eiPhone, but most are not even mediocre, never mind fantastic.

    :-)
    Last edited by Aware; 06-12-2009 at 03:46 PM.
    06-12-2009 01:39 PM
  17. ckj's Avatar
    I wouldn't tie Celio's folks decreased posts to anything but being busy. But I agree their input is always nice, and tends to solve issues.
    Sorry yes it's been very busy the last few weeks. Myself and 2 others are monitoring the forum at least a few times a week. As always, Yell or PM if there are questions not being answered.
    06-12-2009 05:46 PM
  18. graham.hughes's Avatar
    The real winning feature of the iPhone Apps is the *perception* that developers can make oodles of cash easily. It's hard to imagine how most of them make any money with 99 cent Apps, but at 99c at least volume sales can look solid even for the most pathetic app.
    I realize this is not entirely on-topic, but I've been researching this recently, and I found it interestig, so I'm going to share it! :)

    There is a small number of figures that Apple publish, and a large number that they don't. But taking figures from various analysts, it seems that:

    • About 20% of applications on the Apple store are free.
    • Free apps account for somewhere in the region of 95% of downloads.
    • The average price of a paid app is 2/2/$2.80.


    So, 1,000,000,000 downloads equals 50,000,000 paid downloads, equals 100,000,000, equals an average 2,500 per paid-for-app average (based on Apple's claim of 50,000 apps, so 40,000 paid for), of which the developer gets 1,750.

    Add to that the fact the downloads are not evenly distributed, and a small number of top-downloaders gets a hugely disproportionate share of the volume, and I'd say that most apps are not even hitting the average.

    Which means that most developers with a single app will probably not even recoup the cost of the Mac they had to buy to do the development in the first place.

    Graham.
    06-13-2009 07:12 AM
  19. Aware's Avatar
    Exactly! But the *perception* has been spread that there's oodles of money to be made because we only hear about the big sellers.

    Just like the *perception* of the iPhone [though only in the USA, everywhere else knows better] is that it is "the most advanced phone on the planet" ... which is complete garbage by every measure, except the interface. IMHO :-)

    This is an absolute *must read* if you are really interested in this subject
    A Tale of Two Smartphones: US vs Rest of World compared: http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...-compared.html
    Last edited by Aware; 06-13-2009 at 09:15 AM.
    06-13-2009 09:06 AM
  20. EdFrmBrighthand's Avatar
    Back on topic, I'm happy to hear that Celio has kept mentioning Android support for the Redfly, and I hope it really is coming soon... I'll keep my fingers crossed that unexpected problems won't crop up.

    -
    07-17-2009 09:51 AM
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