Dont like the exclusivity with ATT

[gordonfink]

If you buy it unlocked from MS, you will get your updates directly from them, and ATT will have nothing to do with it.

I have an 830 (985) unlocked direct, and I got Denim well before ATT 830's have been able to. That is one of the main beauties of buying an unlocked phone direct.

What phone are you using? The sim card in it has nothing to do with it, unless it was originally from a carrier, then unlocked.

Unlocked or not, my curiosity on other's experience on this issue - for those buying an unlocked phone from MS, do you think the firmware updates still come through on an unlocked phone that is connected to AT&T? My experience is that the cell provider locks the firmware updates going through its system. I have an unlocked phone, connected to AT&T with an AT&T SIM card in it and I don't have Denim... but the same model everywhere else has Denim. I had to do Preview for Developers to get the latest WP 8.1 software updates too.

I have no idea how the Windows 10 mobile updates will happen. Based on my experience with my current phone, I am concerned that it will be same with the new phones - if the phone is connected to AT&T's network you are still at their mercy for firmware updates (because Microsoft doesn't control the experience on their phones - the carrier still does), even if the phone is unlocked and bought from MS. Why buy an unlocked phone at a premium, if AT&T sells for less? I could buy the phone for full price from AT&T (when they start to discount they usually go down about $50 to $100 within a month on phones that don't sell), ask for the unlock code (so I could use on trips to Europe) and would have the same (lesser) experience as I do now but pay less.

 

[walkabt]

The answers each of us get may vary,

But, according to the not so friendly MS Store rep I talked with today in AZ, we are at the same mercy with AT&T for firmware updates, even on an unlocked phone - the firmware is what the carrier approves (except for Apple's iPhone). Software updates will come from Microsoft but EACH carrier who chooses to allow the phone will have to approve the firmware each time. Since I don't have Denim on my code unlocked Lumia 920 on AT&T, I don't expect to get it (or Windows 10 mobile now) and don't expect that process to change with the 950s and their firmware updates. Since I am happy with a 3 year old phone, I may wait until AFTER the first firmware release is available for the 950s (and how AT&T handles it) to see about buying a phone. If they stall, we'll get to see the "Hey ATT where is my firmware" threads again....

I've felt burned enough as a pioneer with MS on technology that they dump (WHS, Surface RT, Windows Phone 7, now Media Center) that I am going to watch on the sidelines this time.

 

[walkabt]

to gordonfink,

ATT Lumia 920, code unlocked after 2 years. Glad it worked for you on the unlocked 830 to get Denim. I am going to hold off and watch this time.

 

[gordonfink]

With respect, I think you're mistaken. Your 920 was not a direct purchase from MS - it was an ATT phone. Once an ATT phone, always an ATT phone, even if you get an unlock code for it. You could be using it for TMO, and you'll still be waiting for ATT to update it. The sim card has nothing to do with it.

On my 830, the carrier is listed as 000. I have a 930, and it's the same way. These phones are carrier independent - that is what the 000 means. You are not reliant on carrier updates - yours come directly from MS. Again, sim cards have nothing to do with it.

The guy you spoke with was correct for the ATT variant - once branded for ATT, it will forever more be an ATT phone, even if you get a code downstream that unlocks it for use on other carriers. He was incorrect if you buy an unlocked variant directly from MS. If it is an unlocked, carrier-independent version, then you are reliant on MS for updates.

 

[walkabt]

to Gordonfink.

First, thank you for opening with "I think you are mistaken." I probably am wrong, and hoping so. But I appreciate the courtesy that is too often replaced in forums with an adamant "you're wrong!" Thank you for your choice of words.

Everything you said was reasonable and appears correct to me (I validated as far as I could go, I am hoping you might be able to verify - see end of reply). I looked at my "about" section and it states the carrier is AT&T. It even has AT&T's information on where to get help. I pulled out the SIM, and rebooted (AT&T logo comes up first) and the same information in "About." I installed an European SIM that we got on our last trip and the same (booted up AT&T logo and same in "About"), so this phone is definitely locked to AT&T from the carrier side even though it is unlocked from the SIM side now. From what I can gather, I simply have a Nokia phone that was loaded with an underlying AT&T ROM (or their ROM was adjusted by AT&T), which is why we don't have Denim...

I looked for ways to further validate, before I consider a $700 investment (phone + tax) but it seems without a replacement Cyan ROM and flashing the replacement Cyan ROM with tools that are no longer available through Nokia (only on 3rd party sites I won't trust) I am out of luck in my ability to validate any further on my end to see if my phone would then upgrade to Denim.

Unfortunately, the rep I spoke with may also be mistaken. She said the same would happen whether I was on AT&T's 950 or a direct 950XL purchase from MS - I would be at their mercy. I'm personally gun shy about a purchase where I can't know until the first upgrade goes is available and updates or is delayed by AT&T whether my purchase would be a good choice. If you use AT&T with your unlocked 830 and have Denim, I would sincerely appreciate your help in putting my concerns to bed once and for all. Are you able to take a screenshot showing the AT&T network in the upper left and also the about screen showing Denim on your 830?

 

[glenada]

That's what Sprint did with the Palm Pre, and look what happended to that.

 

[xandros9]

That's what Sprint did with the Palm Pre, and look what happended to that.

Well, its also what Cingular/ATT did with the iPhone, and look what happened to that.

And Verizon with the Droid lineup.

etc

 

[RaRa85]

I think is a mistake of having an exclusivity agreement with ATT....this company have never promoted WINDOWS PHONES enough....sometimes they dont even have it on display in the stores. This new phones should be available to any carrier.

Agree 100%. This is exactly why I'm on Android now. I bought the Lumia 920 and 1020 off contract before Microsoft left the Lumia 1020 behind in the main area it shined:camera software. I also bought other AT&T Windows Phones and had them unlocked for my carrier. With $350 being the most I could reasonably drop on a phone at this time in my life I found it way too easy to get any other phone without a Microsoft logo on it for $20 something a month without having to put more important things and expenses on hold just to get a phone. I know a lot of people are buy off contract/anti-carrier these days but I find huge value in being able to get a phone without having to spend a lump sum of upfront money on. And now that I've been exposed to a very mature app ecosystem, I find it harder to give up so much just because I love the OS while Microsoft continues to ignore my carrier.(T-Mobile)

 

[Sedp23]

I don't see how they expect any of the phones to sell. Being on one carrier limits visibility of the device it's not like ATT will promote it heavily. Not everyone likes ATT and their limited data

 

[Skyway]

I don't see how they expect any of the phones to sell. Being on one carrier limits visibility of the device it's not like ATT will promote it heavily. Not everyone likes ATT and their limited data

I don't think the plan was to market the crap out of it and hope it competes with other phones. MS has stated that they want to build phones for enthusiasts, not the masses.

However, I agree with you. I have not seen one commercial or ad for these devices. They are definitely not going to sell well compared to other devices, but I personally think MS knew this going in.

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