02-17-2016 08:32 AM
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  1. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    If anything, Microsoft is probably getting a ton of pressure and feedback from their sole carrier partner, AT&T in the U.S.

    If AT&T is facing a large amount of Lumia 950 returns from unhappy consumers, I'll bet you that when a Surface phone does drop, there won't be any carrier partners left.
    CraigCole and Kram Sacul like this.
    02-11-2016 01:08 PM
  2. Geddeeee's Avatar
    Finally... A thread with some semblance of reason!!!!

    MS are trying their best to please everyone. Unfortunately the whiners have no idea what Preview version means. Everything is compared against iOS and Android, but in the same sentence 'they' wouldn't use those either of those devices....

    Also, most do not understand that there is NO mobile OS as we used to know it. W10 is one OS, encompassing a slew of devices. Mobile is just a tiny piece of the overall picture. There is as no need to 'compete' anymore.

    Apple's biggest market is mobile phone, that's why they concentrate most resources on that.

    The whiners just don't understand this. They want MS to ignore everything else and solely develop only the 'mobile' part of W10...

    It's the 'old' way, and MS realises it cannot win that fight!!!

    If you are not happy with Windows Phone, then please stop moaning and go to the 'dark side'. You are spoiling it for the rest of us, and ultimately W10M will seem like too much trouble to MS, and they WILL drop it...

    Either contribute to the development cycle or, here's a thought... Learn to use your phone!!!!

    I have owned 10 Windows Phone devices, and have NEVER had any of the problems that get moaned about on here. Any problems are usually solved by a bit of lateral thinking.

    Thanks again for the great thread... About time!!!!!!
    Jazmac and LeFreak like this.
    02-11-2016 01:23 PM
  3. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar

    MS are trying their best to please everyone. Unfortunately the whiners have no idea what Preview version means. Everything is compared against iOS and Android, but in the same sentence 'they' wouldn't use those either of those devices....

    Also, most do not understand that there is NO mobile OS as we used to know it. W10 is one OS, encompassing a slew of devices. Mobile is just a tiny piece of the overall picture. There is as no need to 'compete' anymore.
    Blah blah-blah-dee-blah.

    Any consumer picking up a carrier version of the Lumia 950 and facing these issues, isn't a 'whiner'. They're an unsatisfied customer.

    There's some truly Stockholm Syndrome excuse making happening here.....
    02-11-2016 01:26 PM
  4. 920Walker's Avatar
    I enjoyed the reviewers dramatic method of being constructive and objective while breathing through his teeth at the idea of using a $550 device in such a state. The video was fairly balanced, except the minimal loading screens shown appeared to be app and internet related, not OS related, which can still be an issue if the same app on other OSes doesn't continually show the same loading screen. Many more features could have been critiqued to come to the reviewer's conclusion, but pulling the shoddy factory cover off and wiggling it around also justifies the retail price as steep.
    Jazmac likes this.
    02-11-2016 03:01 PM
  5. theefman's Avatar
    Don't know what the argument is about. There is, and should be NO onus on consumers to do anything but expect to buy a product thats fit for its purpose. I'm not sure when paying WP users got recruited by Redmond as full time employees but if someone buys a phone and it doesnt work as advertised they dont owe anybody anything or have to keep silent because it doesn't send the "right" message. Bottom line is, its not up to the fans to keep this platform afloat, its Microsoft's job. If they see fit not to do so then whatever happens happens, but its a ridiculous notion to try and claim its a "responsiblity" of a WP user to promote, defend or in any way justify a product that doesnt work properly.
    Sent From my SP3
    CraigCole, pericle and libra89 like this.
    02-11-2016 04:08 PM
  6. Mark F24's Avatar
    Don't expect AT&T to care, as a longtime customer with 5 mobile phones on my account, my experience with an W8.1 635 bluetooth popping issue was to say the least pathetic. I had to pay out and got into an HTC One M8, lost an upgrade because they didn't tell me they were using another of my phone #'s to do this deal. It was not a $600 phone but this HTC is awful close. I went from a very stable 7.5 Samsung Focus Flash to the very stable 8.1 HTC.

    W8.1 works excellent on the HTC, I would almost say flawless. I would have just as soon never seen W10M until it was finished, I can't get too worked up though, what should I expect for free? If I had paid $600 I'd be quite mad, and for that reason alone I have not got a 950. I can just see a customer of mine drive away in their $80,000 CTS-V after telling them their expectations are too high, it's not going to run right ALL the time! LOL! That's not happening.
    CraigCole likes this.
    02-11-2016 06:37 PM
  7. CraigCole's Avatar
    Honestly, you sound like a petulant child; stomping your feet and crying to get attention. From what I can see you haven't done a damn thing about rectifying the issue . You can't even grasp the subject of this thread and unintentionally provide us with a prime example of the problem being discussed here.

    If a product doesn't work for someone, they can return it. Most people who can afford a $600 phone are adults who can make their own decisions and don't need you SJW'ing for them. Why haven't you returned it if it's such a big deal to you?

    You should see your logic from an outsiders perspective. You've had a 75% success rate with Windows phone and because you have 1 bad experience (which is fixed by updates) you're ready to trash everything and stomp around yelling at everyone and posturing like your problems are the only possible experience people can have.

    This is the definition of the entitled, selfish, impatience being discussed. If you had issues with it and didn't like it, return the product and get something else.

    So congratulations on being an example of the impatience and whining that this topic is discussing.

    For the record, I agree that it should just work for consumers. The way you present yourself is childish, immature and will be immediately dismissed by most.
    LOL!!! Well, I'm glad I can deliver a cogent argument without resulting to name calling.

    As for trying to rectify the issues I've been dealing with, what am I supposed to do if TWO hard resets haven't done any good and AT&T won't deliver firmware updates in a timely fashion? Right, it must be my fault.

    I have no desire to experiment with trial insider software, which could brick my carrier-locked phone or cause other issues. Oh, and believe me, Ive tried to return my 950, but guess what? I'm past the 14-day window so with AT&T I'm SOL. That being said, they are sending me a warranty replacement handset, which I sincerely hope functions as advertised. Fingers crossed.

    My experience with this device has been so unfathomably atrocious it's undone any good will I had for Windows Phone, which used to be a lot. To your other point, would you drive a car with brakes that only worked 75 percent of the time? Would you go to a doctor that only prescribed correct medication to three out of every four patients? I suspect not. Why should someone accept any less with a premium-priced electronic device that was sold at retail? I'm not a beta tester, I'm a customer.

    Unfortunately, based on the number of likes my initial post received and all the other people that have come to my defense in this thread, I suspect your final comment has already been proven wrong. Thanks!
    02-11-2016 09:45 PM
  8. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    MS are trying their best to please everyone. Unfortunately the whiners have no idea what Preview version means. Everything is compared against iOS and Android, but in the same sentence 'they' wouldn't use those either of those devices....
    687fea91677be9103defb8dc0b97e8b7.gif

    No where on the box for the 950 and 950 XL does it say beta or preview version. W10M is real, it's released and it sucks hard. Accept it.
    02-12-2016 01:49 AM
  9. Geddeeee's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    No where on the box for the 950 and 950 XL does it say beta or preview version. W10M is real, it's released and it sucks hard. Accept it.
    I accept that nowhere does it say 'beta' or preview' on the box. Saying that, I have not had any of the problems that others have had.

    None of my Windows phones have had any problems. Lucky? Doubtful... My points were made from that standpoint, so accepting that W10M 'sucks hard' doesn't really apply....
    02-12-2016 01:57 AM
  10. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    Sure it's helpful. If I can prevent someone else from making the same mistake I did, if I can save them the anguish of having to deal with a product that doesn't work as advertised then I'll feel like I've contributed. If I can prevent them from wasting $550 or more, all the better.



    Thus far I've had four Windows Phones starting with a Samsung Focus. I've been a satisfied customer all this time, but the 950 with WM10 is completely unreliable in my experience. I simply cannot trust this device to perform the most basic tasks; I have my doubts that the alarm will sound on time or if I can even make a phone call.

    It's 2015, why does this device chew through data? Why does it randomly restart? Why does it get hot for no reason? Why does the speaker hiss and pop? As a customer I shouldn't have to put up with this crap. Everyone seems to forget, this device is available to REAL CUSTOMERS, not just enthusiasts. Regular people won't -- nor should they -- have to deal with basic functionality issues. As an average Joe I don't give a dang whether the operating system is new or not; that's no excuse. Does it work properly, easily, smoothly? That's what I care about.

    To the OP's question, why shouldn't we -- the Windows Phone fans -- expect a product that competes favorably with iOS and Android? Microsoft has been building Windows Phones for FIVE YEARS; they've had ample time to get it right, yet, for some reason, can't.
    You can explain this dozens of times, but all in vain. Fanboys will never understand that NORMAL customers DO NOT care that this OS is fresh. they do not see the fact that MS is selling this completely broken, unpolished and not ready for prime time use. All they want is a working device for the money they pay. They do not want to be insiders, they just want to use the phone and rely on it and as far as I remember windows 10 mobile is not yet released as a public build to all...builds that the 950 and XL came with are beta builds, builds available to the other models in the insider program. But as you have noticed, many consider these as perfect for RTM builds. :)) and the fact that you've spent over 500$ on the phone gives you even more the right to trash the can all over MS.
    Again, for the QA guy few posts above, normal customers do not know about QA and SW development and do NOT care. No one should care because we pay with OUR money these devices and no where is advertised that are beta devices, testing devices or whatever you wanna call them.
    Kram Sacul, CraigCole and Jazmac like this.
    02-12-2016 03:36 AM
  11. seldzar's Avatar
    LOL!!! Well, I'm glad I can deliver a cogent argument without resulting to name calling.

    As for trying to rectify the issues I've been dealing with, what am I supposed to do if TWO hard resets haven't done any good and AT&T won't deliver firmware updates in a timely fashion? Right, it must be my fault.

    I have no desire to experiment with trial insider software, which could brick my carrier-locked phone or cause other issues. Oh, and believe me, Ive tried to return my 950, but guess what? I'm past the 14-day window so with AT&T I'm SOL. That being said, they are sending me a warranty replacement handset, which I sincerely hope functions as advertised. Fingers crossed.

    My experience with this device has been so unfathomably atrocious it's undone any good will I had for Windows Phone, which used to be a lot. To your other point, would you drive a car with brakes that only worked 75 percent of the time? Would you go to a doctor that only prescribed correct medication to three out of every four patients? I suspect not. Why should someone accept any less with a premium-priced electronic device that was sold at retail? I'm not a beta tester, I'm a customer.

    Unfortunately, based on the number of likes my initial post received and all the other people that have come to my defense in this thread, I suspect your final comment has already been proven wrong. Thanks!
    Ya know what? I'm guilty of doing the same thing I was complaining about in this post. I was far too aggressive, my apologies. This just goes to show how negativity can be infectious and it's not good.

    All I can say is several fixes for your issues are there in front of you and all you have to do is install and app, click a button and choose "bypass AT&T mode" aka Insider Release Preview. It won't brick your phone. If you have any issues, you can alway restore the default firwmare image with WPRT and since you have a new handset coming, what is the harm in trying?

    My experience with the phone heating up randomly and eating battery has always been tied to wireless. Every.Single.Time. When I notice it, I turn off wireless for a few minutes and it cools down and all is fine. It also only happens for me at work so I simply keep wifi off as there are about 50 SSID's broadcasting around me and I image the phone goes haywire at times trying to bounce around channels and radios.

    At home my wireless is fine as it is a single dual radio AP with substantilly less interference. In fact every single reboot/lock, up save for one, has been at work while the phone hasn't been in use with wireless on.

    So next time you have that happen, try just turning off wireless for a bit to see if it starts to cool down. I'd also suggest installing a wifi analyzer to see what your area looks like and take note of where and when you have that type of problem.

    I honestly believe a large number of the battery, heat and reboot/lock up issues are all tied to the radios in the phone. I don't really see this behaviour (wifi flaky, heatups, lock ups, and reboots) as often on other devices with w10M. It didn't happen on my 930 nor am I seeing it with people who use the 640, 635 or even my wifes 830.

    I had to wait until January before I could even buy one so I had 3 solid months of staring at issues in these forums and when I got the phone, absolutely nothing surprised me because of that and my expectations were met or exceeded rather than crushed under the weight of disappointment.
    RumoredNow and LeFreak like this.
    02-12-2016 09:27 AM
  12. cracgor's Avatar
    I have to disagree here. It's not unreasonable. Consumers and the general public should know better. Details are severely important.

    I spend a lot of time in Ask a Question. We get many detailed posts from registered members and guests. But we also get the vague statements and they drive me a bit batty.

    Here's my analogy, consider a consultation with your doctor.

    Correct way: Interact with the doctor, explain exactly what ails you and answer questions to help him form a diagnosis. The more descriptive you are, the better enabled the doctor is to cure you.

    Incorrect way (and this is how many tech users report in): Call the doctor on the phone and say simply, "My side hurts." Then expect the doctor to make a diagnosis and give you the cure. The doctor can't see what you see and not mentioning details may very well mean the difference between life and death. The doctor on the phone might start hemming and hawing about kidney stones or appendicitis, muscle strain or back problems. Meanwhile the patient is bleeding to death because they fail to mention they have a butcher knife impaled in their abdomen. They somehow expect the doctor to mystically visualize the knife wound.

    In the "Hard to close tabs on Edge" example even the simple detail of portrait vs landscape makes a huge difference. Getting details from users who want a fix should not be as hard as some users make it. It's not doing QA. It's asking for help to rectify a problem.
    BTW this is exactly how interacting with patients is.

    Do you have any medical problems? No
    Are you on any medicines? Yes
    Do you know what they are? No

    If a person's health and well being is a struggle to get information, why would understanding what is wrong with a browser?
    RumoredNow and a5cent like this.
    02-12-2016 04:15 PM
  13. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    Overtime someone has issues with his WP and wants to jump ship he is being accused of all sorts of things...not everyone wants to continue being a free beta tester for MS
    02-13-2016 12:05 AM
  14. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    I accept that nowhere does it say 'beta' or preview' on the box. Saying that, I have not had any of the problems that others have had.

    None of my Windows phones have had any problems. Lucky? Doubtful... My points were made from that standpoint, so accepting that W10M 'sucks hard' doesn't really apply....
    I can accept that. It's like cigarettes can cause cancer but not everyone that smokes gets it.
    cracgor and mariusmuntean like this.
    02-13-2016 01:12 AM
  15. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    I can accept that. It's like cigarettes can cause cancer but not everyone that smokes gets it.
    Some can accept the beta stage of w10m, some can't...
    02-14-2016 06:16 AM
  16. Jazmac's Avatar
    If anything, Microsoft is probably getting a ton of pressure and feedback from their sole carrier partner, AT&T in the U.S.

    If AT&T is facing a large amount of Lumia 950 returns from unhappy consumers, I'll bet you that when a Surface phone does drop, there won't be any carrier partners left.
    Stop with the If's. My son is as CSR at AT&T and he says he hasn't seen a 950 come back yet. My guess is people that want them and ask for them by name, are not bothered so much what it doesn't do. They want it for what it does do.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    02-14-2016 08:06 PM
  17. troylytle's Avatar
    Even more. I'm a manager at AT&T and we sell tons of 640/xl's. Never returned. Part of the job is qualifying.
    RumoredNow, Jazmac and libra89 like this.
    02-14-2016 08:21 PM
  18. someone2639's Avatar
    Okay I'm back and have seen a few comments on the OS being incomplete and buggy.

    Have you ever been stumped on a question while doing work? And you spend hours upon hours trying to solve it? That's when you'd go and ask for help and realize that the problem was simple all along.
    That is Microsoft's plan.

    But then there's the situation where the person you ask for help is like "lol ur dumb" and then give a vague explanation that kind of helps, but leaves you wondering "am I dumb?" And then you stop asking for fear that people will call you dumb.
    That is at least 50% of the feedback given.
    "You must be the change you want to see in the world"-Gandhi
    Laura Knotek and RumoredNow like this.
    02-14-2016 08:48 PM
  19. Jazmac's Avatar
    Intentionally left blank.
    Last edited by Jazmac; 02-16-2016 at 02:43 PM.
    02-15-2016 03:26 AM
  20. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Some can accept the beta stage of w10m, some can't...

    Oh please...
    02-16-2016 06:00 AM
  21. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    Oh please...
    so, by your means, win10mobile is polished and bug free :)))...
    02-16-2016 06:44 AM
  22. Jazmac's Avatar
    so, by your means, win10mobile is polished and bug free :)))...
    What is your opinion on the topic
    02-16-2016 02:46 PM
  23. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    What is your opinion on the topic
    That patience has grown thin with win10mobile still in a buggy state while also being present on publicly sold devices.
    CraigCole and Kram Sacul like this.
    02-17-2016 12:03 AM
  24. Jazmac's Avatar
    That patience has grown thin with win10mobile still in a buggy state while also being present on publicly sold devices.
    The topic question is a tough one I know, but your position is noted.
    CraigCole and RumoredNow like this.
    02-17-2016 08:32 AM
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