1. thesachd's Avatar
    Huawei Claims They Didn?t Make Money From Windows Phone

    Know we all know here that Windows Phones don't have the brightest history with sales and OEMs have generally been reluctant to adopt it, and even those that do often make little or no effort to make their Windows Phone experience "unique".

    I mean think about apart from Nokia, what OEM made a conscious effort to put their apps and services on par with the Android alternatives devices they made? We'll Nokia doesn't count because it never made devices with other OSes(apart from older Symbian ones).

    Have any OEMs benefitted from manufacturing Windows Phone devices? And how?

    Because Huawei's CEO claims that his firm didn't benefit from Windows Phone and went onto say that no one did.

    Your thoughts?
    12-02-2014 12:04 PM
  2. jmshub's Avatar
    Being a cell phone manufacturer is tough. It isn't like building Android handsets is a guaranteed money maker. A lot of popular Android brands struggle. HTC was having serious trouble last year. I don't know if the One phones have turned their fortunes around or not. So, Huawei is probably telling the truth when they say they didn't do well with Windows Phone. But that isn't necessarily an indictment of WP8 as a platform. People have to have some reason to buy one, and while the W1 appeared to be a decent phone, I'm not sure that it did anything that a comparable Lumia didn't do as well.
    12-02-2014 12:19 PM
  3. osallent's Avatar
    Being a cell phone manufacturer is tough. It isn't like building Android handsets is a guaranteed money maker. A lot of popular Android brands struggle. HTC was having serious trouble last year. I don't know if the One phones have turned their fortunes around or not. So, Huawei is probably telling the truth when they say they didn't do well with Windows Phone. But that isn't necessarily an indictment of WP8 as a platform. People have to have some reason to buy one, and while the W1 appeared to be a decent phone, I'm not sure that it did anything that a comparable Lumia didn't do as well.
    Well, as someone who's enjoyed both platforms and follow Android and Windows news closely, I can tell you that outside of Samsung, LG, and HTC, no one else is making money on Android except for Google itself. Even so, HTC only became slightly profitable again after the release of the M8, and LG only since the LG G2, which was then followed by the hugely successful LG G3.

    Every other Android manufacturer is loosing money on phones due to pressure to provide aggressive discounting, but most pick up the slack somewhere else as they manufacture other stuff besides cell phones. The average price of Android Phones has dropped like a stone due to the massive competition between phone makers.

    Speaking of The One phones, they are in serious trouble right now. They took so long to bring it to market that now every Android flagship phone and most mid-high end Android phones blow it out of the water. Cyanogenmod bailed out on The One, so the company is looking doomed right about now.

    Windows Phone pains are nothing new. Many Android phone manufacturers can relate to Microsoft's struggles. Just about the only company that can produce whatever they feel like year after year, and expect a feeding frenzy of consumers waiting to toss their money at the product, is Apple, Inc. They could ship a gold plated turd for next year's Iphone and people will still buy it because it's Apple.
    a5cent and xandros9 like this.
    12-02-2014 02:26 PM
  4. jonnaver's Avatar
    Well, as someone who's enjoyed both platforms and follow Android and Windows news closely, I can tell you that outside of Samsung, LG, and HTC, no one else is making money on Android except for Google itself.
    You forgot Sony. Their mobile device division was profitable in 2014. Company overall took a hit though from costs incurred from a big restructuring they did but that's a separate issue
    xandros9 likes this.
    12-02-2014 04:51 PM
  5. vlad0's Avatar
    I am more worried about the devs and e-commerce in general.. they are heavily aiming at the lower end where the target audience is less likely to buy, so based on what's happening with android, conversion rates will be much lower than iOS .. devs and commerce follow the money, and if you don't have a "willing to spend" install base there is nothing to follow.

    I understand the low end push, but they should take a very close look at the android market and see what happens when you do that in the long run.

    Not that worried about the OEMs.. MS bought Nokia's D&S for a reason.. they can keep WP afloat on their own.
    12-02-2014 07:45 PM
  6. Soulstream's Avatar
    I am more worried about the devs and e-commerce in general.. they are heavily aiming at the lower end where the target audience is less likely to buy, so based on what's happening with android, conversion rates will be much lower than iOS .. devs and commerce follow the money, and if you don't have a "willing to spend" install base there is nothing to follow.

    I understand the low end push, but they should take a very close look at the android market and see what happens when you do that in the long run.

    Not that worried about the OEMs.. MS bought Nokia's D&S for a reason.. they can keep WP afloat on their own.
    But keeping "WP afloat on their own" isn't actually bad for the platform? I mean, yes we (might) get more WP devices, but it shows that is little room for a third ecosystem on the market?

    Blackberry does the same thing with it's OS and isn't doing too great. Apple is an exception in keeping tight control over both hardware and software and is so far succeeding. Google made Android popular by allowing other to do with the software/hardware as they see fit. Also Google never had the (very) difficult job of selling hardware in the smartphone market.

    I'm not saying MS's decision to buy Nokia was a bad one (yet), but if their motivation was to keep WP afloat, then it would show how bad in a position MS is with WP.
    12-03-2014 06:02 AM
  7. nessinhaw's Avatar
    well...what did huawei WP phones had to make pplz buy it over a Lumia?



    selling WP phones is just like selling Android: what does X model has over Y model that will make me choose one over the other?



    i'm sorry for huawei if they think just by adding WP to a phone, sales would pop! they didn't even try!



    i remember back in 2012 the Samsung Ativ S was a serious competition for the 920, it offered stuff like removable battery, microSD card, bigger screen, thinner profile and lighter in weight, well, I think the point is already made.



    the fact is Lumias dominate the WP market and any other OEM will have to make a bit of an effort to stand out and make pplz pick them over Microsoft!
    Stefan Holder and nallWhite like this.
    12-03-2014 08:50 AM
  8. Jazmac's Avatar
    Being a cell phone manufacturer is tough. It isn't like building Android handsets is a guaranteed money maker. A lot of popular Android brands struggle. HTC was having serious trouble last year. I don't know if the One phones have turned their fortunes around or not. So, Huawei is probably telling the truth when they say they didn't do well with Windows Phone. But that isn't necessarily an indictment of WP8 as a platform. People have to have some reason to buy one, and while the W1 appeared to be a decent phone, I'm not sure that it did anything that a comparable Lumia didn't do as well.
    Exactly right. Ask Amazon's Jeff Bezos about his android based Fire phone.
    nallWhite and Laura Knotek like this.
    12-03-2014 09:01 AM
  9. thesachd's Avatar
    Being a cell phone manufacturer is tough. It isn't like building Android handsets is a guaranteed money maker. A lot of popular Android brands struggle. HTC was having serious trouble last year. I don't know if the One phones have turned their fortunes around or not. So, Huawei is probably telling the truth when they say they didn't do well with Windows Phone.
    My point was never to say that manufacturing Android devices is a sure fire way to boost sales, but why do you think companies invest in Android instead of Windows Phone?

    Huawei gave a pretty good explanation a little while ago about why they weren't producing anymore Windows Phones, and one reason they gave for this was because they believed that Windows Phone was so locked down that it didn't allow for much OEM innovation or customisation.

    I wonder if any OEM would be happily making Windows Phones and actively supporting them.

    Well, as someone who's enjoyed both platforms and follow Android and Windows news closely, I can tell you that outside of Samsung, LG, and HTC, no one else is making money on Android except for Google itself. Even so, HTC only became slightly profitable again after the release of the M8, and LG only since the LG G2, which was then followed by the hugely successful LG G3.

    Every other Android manufacturer is loosing money on phones due to pressure to provide aggressive discounting, but most pick up the slack somewhere else as they manufacture other stuff besides cell phones. The average price of Android Phones has dropped like a stone due to the massive competition between phone makers.
    Outside of Samsung, LG and HTC no one is making profit from making Android devices? I believe Motorola and Amazon aren't doing too bad either.

    Plus even if Motorola and Amazon we're doing terrible, even if three companies are making profit from Android* I am pretty sure that's better than any OEM making profit from Windows Phone(if there is any such OEM).

    well...what did huawei WP phones had to make pplz buy it over a Lumia?



    selling WP phones is just like selling Android: what does X model has over Y model that will make me choose one over the other?



    i'm sorry for huawei if they think just by adding WP to a phone, sales would pop! they didn't even try!



    i remember back in 2012 the Samsung Ativ S was a serious competition for the 920, it offered stuff like removable battery, microSD card, bigger screen, thinner profile and lighter in weight, well, I think the point is already made.



    the fact is Lumias dominate the WP market and any other OEM will have to make a bit of an effort to stand out and make pplz pick them over Microsoft!
    Huawei gave a pretty good explanation a little while ago about why they weren't producing anymore Windows Phones, and one reason they gave for this was because they believed that Windows Phone was so locked down that it didn't allow for much OEM innovation or customisation.

    Exactly right. Ask Amazon's Jeff Bezos about his android based Fire phone.
    While that was a failed endeavour, don't the Kindle tablets running Android sell we'll?
    Last edited by thesachd; 12-04-2014 at 12:59 PM.
    12-03-2014 09:53 AM
  10. fdalbor's Avatar
    The Kindle Fires sell quite well (I have two). But they came out and got a foothold before the flood of other Android tablets came.
    12-03-2014 03:46 PM
  11. dkediger's Avatar
    The Kindle Fires sell quite well (I have two). But they came out and got a foothold before the flood of other Android tablets came.
    This, plus the natural upgrade path from owners of original Kindles.
    12-03-2014 05:01 PM
  12. thesachd's Avatar
    After some brief debate, one thing is for sure it is highly unlikely any OEM is making money from Windows Phone.

    While Android isn't a guaranteed chance of success, it is more likely to succeed than Windows Phone, firms like OnePlus, OPPO, Xiamoi, Samsung, HTC, Motorola, LG prove that. I know some of these firms have eventually gone into losses, but did gain significant success at some point.

    A well-respected technology reviewer, Linus Sebastian reviewed the HTC One M8 for Windows recently. He has been in love with the One series ever since the 2013 version.

    He said that even with the HTC team combined they couldn't do much to make the "lackluster"(he used slightly different terms) WP experience better.

    What makes Android stands out is the fact that OEMs can truly offer something unique.

    While Microsoft has somewhat strict control over software and hardware, much like Apple. This allows Apple to create well optimised applications and a software experience while Microsoft has had no real advantage of it, only sales losses.

    If this continues I wonder if OEMs will be willing to produce Windows Phones in the future and maybe even make a profit one day...
    12-04-2014 09:22 AM
  13. tgp's Avatar
    Exactly right. Ask Amazon's Jeff Bezos about his android based Fire phone.
    Indeed, Amazon rewrote the definition of "flop" with that one!
    12-04-2014 09:29 AM
  14. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I guess Sammy isn't too healthy either.

    Executives at Samsung Unit Relieved From Posts - WSJ
    12-04-2014 10:21 AM
  15. prasath1234's Avatar
    I want Samsung to release wp in India.maybe dream.atleast one handset Sammy.people here in India love Samsung not android.give a try Sammy.
    From Windows phone
    12-04-2014 10:40 AM
  16. Soulstream's Avatar
    I guess Sammy isn't too healthy either.

    Executives at Samsung Unit Relieved From Posts - WSJ
    It's the fact that the market is beginning to be saturated and smartphones have become so good that changing them even at two years isn't a must anymore. Also Samsung owning so much of the Android space wasn't very good for Android.
    12-04-2014 10:54 AM
  17. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    Well, as someone who's enjoyed both platforms and follow Android and Windows news closely, I can tell you that outside of Samsung, LG, and HTC, no one else is making money on Android except for Google itself.
    Don't forget Microsoft. Microsoft makes quite a bit of money on Android. :D

    I'm half joking. I know you were talking about Android phone manufacturers, but I had to throw that in there anyway.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-04-2014 11:34 AM
  18. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    Outside of Samsung, LG and HTC no one is making profit from making Android devices? I believe Motorola and Amazon aren't doing too bad either.

    Plus even if Motorola and Amazon we're doing terrible, even if three companies are making profit from Windows Phone I am pretty sure that's better than any OEM making profit from Windows Phone(if there is any such OEM).

    ...

    While that was a failed endeavour, don't the Kindle tablets running Android sell we'll?
    Neither Motorola nor Amazon are good examples of Android phone successes.

    Motorola is doing so poorly as a business that they went out of business. Google bought out Motorola and used their manufacturing capabilities to make some Android phones, but that didn't exactly make Motorola rise from the ashes. I believe what remains of Motorola has been sold to Lenovo now.

    Amazon has done well with Android based tablets, but not with phones. IMO, it's not really fair to bring Android tablets into a conversation about Windows Phone sales because it's an apples to oranges comparison. Windows Phone doesn't compete at the tablet level. In Microsoft's ecosystem tablets run Windows or Windows RT. Windows tablet manufacturers seem to be making money, but that and Android tablets don't really fit into this conversation.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-04-2014 11:50 AM
  19. Jazmac's Avatar
    My point was never to say that manufacturing Android devices is a sure fire way to boost sales, but why do you think companies invest in Android instead of Windows Phone?

    Huawei gave a pretty good explanation a little while ago about why they weren't producing anymore Windows Phones, and one reason they gave for this was because they believed that Windows Phone was so locked down that it didn't allow for much OEM innovation or customisation.

    I wonder if any OEM would be happily making Windows Phones and actively supporting them.



    Outside of Samsung, LG and HTC no one is making profit from making Android devices? I believe Motorola and Amazon aren't doing too bad either.

    Plus even if Motorola and Amazon we're doing terrible, even if three companies are making profit from Android* I am pretty sure that's better than any OEM making profit from Windows Phone(if there is any such OEM).



    Huawei gave a pretty good explanation a little while ago about why they weren't producing anymore Windows Phones, and one reason they gave for this was because they believed that Windows Phone was so locked down that it didn't allow for much OEM innovation or customisation.



    While that was a failed endeavour, don't the Kindle tablets running Android sell we'll?
    So your point is what? Move the goal posts until the conversation points to how well Amazon tablets are doing rather than the thread topic? Don't get me wrong, I like Amazon as I am a prime member. But I'm thinking apples and oranges. Having said that I do agree, Sammy is pulling the lions share of dollars from android.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-05-2014 08:12 PM

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