10-19-2015 01:16 PM
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  1. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Yes it may have sold pretty well. But it might just have been BlackBerry fans that were buying the phones. Of course I don't subscribe to the viewpoint that Microsoft would do better on BBOS10. I believe that the universal app model would be impossible to implement without sweeping changes to the code (I've dabbled in Windows Phone development) due to the hugely different code types. Namely Windows Phone is based on the NT kernel and BBOS10 is QNX which is UNIX based. This would make development of apps even less enticing than it already is. Now I do believe Microsoft should have bought BlackBerry but for different reasons to you. You suggested they buy them for the software and OS, I believe they should have bought them for the hardware (keyboard fitted Windows 10 mobile? A man can dream right?). What Microsoft should have done though was less reboots of the OS.
    Saijin_Naib likes this.
    10-17-2015 04:02 AM
  2. TechFreak1's Avatar
    To the OP.

    Wait, wait you're suggesting that Microsoft should have bought Blackberry over Nokia's D & S division, who held over 90% of the Windows phone 8 market thus basically starting again from scratch?

    Parse that for second.

    Yes it may have sold pretty well. But it might just have been BlackBerry fans that were buying the phones. Of course I don't subscribe to the viewpoint that Microsoft would do better on BBOS10. I believe that the universal app model would be impossible to implement without sweeping changes to the code (I've dabbled in Windows Phone development) due to the hugely different code types. Namely Windows Phone is based on the NT kernel and BBOS10 is QNX which is UNIX based. This would make development of apps even less enticing than it already is. Now I do believe Microsoft should have bought BlackBerry but for different reasons to you. You suggested they buy them for the software and OS, I believe they should have bought them for the hardware (keyboard fitted Windows 10 mobile? A man can dream right?). What Microsoft should have done though was less reboots of the OS.
    They wouldn't have need to have bought Blackberry for the hardware, sure some of the keyboards of on some blackberry models are really, really good. However it's just a keyboard, nothing that can't be emulated or improved upon.

    For instance the HTC TP7, that failed predominately due to the lack of landscape support. Dell's phone was marred by the same issues as the other other WP7 phones i.e the msd card fiasco (being the most prominent one as that is the only component hot swapped - the SIM not as much).
    10-17-2015 05:07 AM
  3. neo158's Avatar
    Buying Blackberry would have been a huge disaster for Microsoft, not even the shareholders have confidence in BB any more considering the share price has dropped below ten points. You'll get the die hards who'll buy the Priv but most BB users I've seen have said they'll jump ship to W10M or iOS or even stick with BB10 as long as they can.
    rmeigs and 920Walker like this.
    10-17-2015 06:20 AM
  4. msnawe's Avatar
    Yes I can see bb10 users switching to w10 but because going android is a worse step back. Yes blackberry as a company doesn't seem in good shape and it's what costed bb10 a decent market. Bb10 with the backing of a Microsoft or amazon would have gained more traction than w10 will ever get until it's rebooted or canned.

    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-17-2015 06:52 AM
  5. Zachary Boddy's Avatar
    Mmmm no. I don't like BB10 that much. I love Windows Phone. It could use some improvements but it's constantly getting better.
    10-17-2015 07:57 AM
  6. msnawe's Avatar
    the tiles look nice but it's clear that using metro UI doesn't flow like bb10. Just the hub can clearly replace a number of wp screens. Bb10 can borrow a couple of things that wp does better, but overall the main thing that would really help bb10 is office + here maps + active tiles. There isn't anything else that Microsoft could offer bb10.

    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-17-2015 08:47 AM
  7. Zachary Boddy's Avatar
    the tiles look nice but it's clear that using metro UI doesn't flow like bb10. Just the hub can clearly replace a number of wp screens. Bb10 can borrow a couple of things that wp does better, but overall the main thing that would really help bb10 is office + here maps + active tiles. There isn't anything else that Microsoft could offer bb10.

    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    There's a lot Microsoft can offer and it is already. Microsoft is already doing far better than BlackBerry (what is it, ten times more market share? I can't remember but I thought BlackBerry had .3% worldwide market share). BlackBerry just isn't suited to the modern world and that's why the Priv is an Android device, not BB10. Yes, BlackBerry has some great ideas but it's already been proven over and over again that those ideas aren't necessary anymore. People don't require them. I'd love for Microsoft to incorporate some of BlackBerry's ideas but in the end I don't think acquiring BlackBerry would help Microsoft at all. Even now BlackBerry would be a ridiculously large acquisition and it's not worth it.
    Last edited by Zachary Boddy; 10-17-2015 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Added a...thing
    neo158 likes this.
    10-17-2015 10:05 AM
  8. skstrials's Avatar
    This is a tough call.

    I like BlackBerry 10 phones; and I also like Windows 10 tablets and PCs.

    BlackBerry and Microsoft could do some collaboration together.

    - BlackBerry can bring in their Hub available for Windows Phone, while MS can have their apps available on BlackBerry 10.
    - Making the Band work on BlackBerry 10 can also boost some sales for Microsoft.


    All in all, BlackBerry users are more open to Microsoft than Google.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    10-17-2015 10:27 AM
  9. msnawe's Avatar
    @Zachary based on your arguments we could conclude that both bb10 and wp10 are just as unnecessary and it's now a 2 horse race apple vs Google. Wp10 just being used as a way to release frustrations of android users who try a Lumia but then resell it and returns to Android or iPhone.

    This dual horse race is indeed becoming a reality as Windows is now following bb towards android.

    I would prefer to have a 3rd contender but BlackBerry and Microsoft won't do unless they really step up their game.

    They would achieve it quicker if they took the best of it, ie bb10 with metro touches and MS ecosystem.

    Now it looks more like WP will end up canned.


    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-17-2015 10:50 AM
  10. ArtificiallyYours's Avatar
    MS gets it more than the OP does.
    10-17-2015 01:57 PM
  11. EasilyTheBest's Avatar
    @Zachary based on your arguments we could conclude that both bb10 and wp10 are just as unnecessary and it's now a 2 horse race apple vs Google. Wp10 just being used as a way to release frustrations of android users who try a Lumia but then resell it and returns to Android or iPhone.

    This dual horse race is indeed becoming a reality as Windows is now following bb towards android.

    I would prefer to have a 3rd contender but BlackBerry and Microsoft won't do unless they really step up their game.

    They would achieve it quicker if they took the best of it, ie bb10 with metro touches and MS ecosystem.

    Now it looks more like WP will end up canned.


    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    Unnecessary?
    Like I posted earlier, Microsoft is doing just fine in Europe. They are right behind IOS in a couple of countries.
    I love Windows Phones and yes I have tried Android.
    I think your taking your view on things as if its everyone else's and is a fact that its a two horse race and WP will be canned.
    Theres no chance of that.
    Microsoft are in this for the long term. With universal apps and a rumoured Surface Phone to come theres no way MS is giving up.
    Google will have to make apps for Windows 10 eventually even tho they really don't want Windows 10 to succeed for obvious reasons..
    neo158 likes this.
    10-17-2015 02:07 PM
  12. msnawe's Avatar
    This was in 2013 to 2014, now the 'growth' is much slowed and even reversing in some countries.

    Not surprising, Microsoft went for the low and mid end market to avoid competing with iPhone and galaxy s5/s6, Nexus 6. There are many curious who probably tried a cheap Lumia out of frustration from Android.

    And the parents who buy Lumia for their kids because they are cheap. Now with Xiaomi and Oppo, even asus, they can go android for very cheap. We will see what happens..

    I bought the lumia 640xl because I needed a dual SIM and didn't want android. I loved how beautiful the tiles but I got frustrated going in and out of apps, I got frustrated at the inferior mail client of WP.

    What is effortless on bb10 is just annoying on wp. But I loved the Microsoft office, the maps... I had to return my 640 after 2 days though.

    Now I have a ZenFone 2, it's much better than the 640 for mails and just about everything except the home screen.

    But ZenFone is frustrating too, it just flows on bb10. The closest to this user experience is Jolla OS.

    That's when I realized that a Microsoft bb10 ecosystem would just be the best solution to date.


    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-17-2015 02:36 PM
  13. rmeigs's Avatar
    Microsoft's problem is the U.S. over in Europe they have 10% 12% and even 14% market share in sum countries.
    Blackberry is nowhere to be seen. While Windows phones are in all the stores.
    In the UK theres a great selection in Carphone Warehouse, EE, Vodafone, O2, Tesco, Asda...
    Its way better than a couple of years back, I see ppl using Windows phone every day..
    Exactly. Too many here in North America see WP with only a 3% share in the USA and assume that is what they are doing everywhere. As you point out, not so.
    10-17-2015 02:38 PM
  14. StevoPhilo's Avatar
    There really is little to no reason for Microsoft to ACQUIRE Blackberry. I'm really curious what features of BB10 that you like to see on a WP. Honestly if that's the only reason then I guess Microsoft could get a license agreement on those designs, but to outright BUY them would be ridiculous.

    BB isn't a threat to literally anyone at the moment. It'd be easier for them to die and then have Microsoft take their UI design for Hub
    10-17-2015 02:50 PM
  15. Zachary Boddy's Avatar
    I do not agree that the way to go is BB10. As I said, BB10 is in no way built for the modern world! It worked on feature phones. It worked on BlackBerry's! It does not work on smartphones. BlackBerry has gone the way of Android because finally they realize this. Maybe with their high quality hardware and security running Android they have a chance to be a manufacturer but BlackBerry as an operating system is hanging by a thread and with the way the market is going it won't last long. BB10 isn't fluid enough, and by that I mean it doesn't change enough.
    Microsoft is invested in Windows 10 Mobile and there's no way they're giving up yet. Universal Apps, Continuum, all new core apps, a new camera, an entirely new operating system, Windows Design Language, everything is there. It's not a two-horse race. There's a lot of horses there, just all but three are so far back in the distance you can't even see them. Windows Phone is right there and Microsoft is pumping so much energy into it that as long as they don't stumble they have a chance of being a contender again. If Microsoft worked with BlackBerry to use some of their ideas, get that infamous security and maybe a hand on the BlackBerry Hub, that would be great. But Microsoft doesn't need it, and it may actually weaken them.
    The worst thing Microsoft can do is spend their precious funds on acquiring BlackBerry as a whole. That would be a foolhardy decision. Acquiring Nokia was likely a mistake but Nadella at least rolled with it and is using it to his full advantage. Nothing can be gained from buying a dying company that's sinking the last of its energy into Android, Microsoft's mobile competitor.
    neo158 likes this.
    10-17-2015 03:23 PM
  16. msnawe's Avatar
    Bb10 a feature phone? Lol. You must be confused with bb7.. bb10 and Jolla are way more modern than anything else, even tizen is more modern.

    What bb10 doesn't have is an ecosystem with overdrive. Etc..

    What made wp win market share is more the low cheap Lumias + consumers knowing Microsoft won't go bust.

    Blackberry had tough financial condition and went to compete on high end. This is why they lost market share despite a better OS.

    if wp wants to pour more money on a losing horse, so be it...



    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-17-2015 03:34 PM
  17. EasilyTheBest's Avatar
    What made wp win market share is more the low cheap Lumias + consumers knowing Microsoft won't go bust.

    Blackberry had tough financial condition and went to compete on high end. This is why they lost market share despite a better OS.

    if wp wants to pour more money on a losing horse, so be it...

    What are you going on about, how many ppl who bought a Windows Phone thought, "oh I will buy a Lumia Phone as I know Microsoft won't go bust!"

    Yes theres been cheap Lumia phones but here in the UK the cheap Lumia phones are outnumbered 10 to 1 by the stupidly cheap Android phones.

    Losing horse? Do you read other ppls posts.
    Microsoft is doing great in most of Europe!
    They are close to beating Apples Market share in some countries, what have you got to say about that. Microsoft should give up?
    Check out the numbers!
    920Walker and neo158 like this.
    10-17-2015 04:30 PM
  18. msnawe's Avatar
    All the countries where Microsoft is supposedly doing well, have been stabilizing or declining in market share this year.

    Microsoft have released an high end phone in ages, until the 950 comes for w10. But have released dozens of low end, hence showing how it didn't go after Apple. It would take a number of lumias to make up the same profit as a single iPhone. So much for market share.

    gumtree in the UK, or ebay , and equivalent in France are loaded with people reselling their lumia within a year. So much for an iphone or Android competitor.

    I did buy a lumia because it was dual SIM. A 640xl released this year. But I had to return it after 2 days. It's spec and performance
    is actually comparable to my 2 years old z30.

    Just with my z30, email, and communication is a breeze. The UI flows... I did miss the tiles but only because they look nice, not that are more functional.




    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-17-2015 05:24 PM
  19. bhtkb's Avatar
    Uh... there are more apps in the IOS and Android space because MSFT came late to the party, not because of the UI. And MSFT seems to be doing just fine in europe?
    Yeah, that's definitely a right argument. But we can't ignore the fact after 5 years of being in the market, some larger app makers are not very interested on the platform, either no apps or ones that gets no updates. There may be something MSFT is doing wrong. And I wanna add that app count is not a good metric to me to compare ecosystems, it's the quality and diversity of apps.
    10-17-2015 05:26 PM
  20. Smokin44's Avatar
    I think the premise of this thread is wrong - finally Microsoft DOES get it.

    It is ALL about the eco-system, the work-flow, the connected devices through our lives. Sure, some hardware or features of an OS or handset may be impressive, but something major would have to happen for somebody today to give up their eco-system, for another.

    MSFT has the best eco-system in the history of PC's. Windows. It has finally realized that is the strongest assett it owns, and there is no real competitor.

    There are too many devices, too many options. I have owned an Ipad (air) - the thing is a toy. A big phone. People in todays world dont want to own a phone, a wearable, a tablet, a laptop/desktop pc then more than likely drive a pc/laptop in their work environment etc.

    The surface to me is just a fantastic device. It replaces 3 of the the options (tablet/laptop/desktop) and going forward, can merg into and thus replace the phone/become a phone etc. This is extremely powerful. I can watch movies when I want to, do serious work when I need to.

    I dont need to sell the Surface here, but IMHO its success is why MSFT should press hard. Technology is nearing a point where the power of a PC can be found something the size of todays phone. Only MSFT can really capitalize on this, Mac to a lesser extent.

    All previous WP are now irrelevant, because MSFT finally gets it. WP will work, when WP is Windows. And Windows is WP/Tablet/PC etc. If they do it correctly and are seamless, then the whole landscape has changed again.
    HeyCori, neo158 and PepperdotNet like this.
    10-17-2015 06:29 PM
  21. msnawe's Avatar
    PC sales are at their lowest but worse even w10 is here too late. The future is the PC in the cloud. And it doesn't matter then whether it's logging in via a surface or an iPad.


    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-17-2015 06:54 PM
  22. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Msnawe we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think we're ever going to have the same viewpoint on this.
    10-17-2015 09:59 PM
  23. hapishyguy's Avatar
    No thanks. I prefer Windows 10 to BB10. Isn't Blackberry ditching BB10 in favor of Android with the Priv? You might be waiting a while for that BB10 with dual SIM.
    Oh please not again. BlackBerry is not going to ditch BB10. BB10 is going to be there because of corporate security. BB10 is the only platform for utmost corporate security. Its just that its going to have less development means less workforce and thus less updates because corporate users would only be concerned for work use.
    BlackBerry is bringing android in Priv to compete the handset market so that can be a little profitable in the handset market. Since android is not their platform they do not need a lot of resources to maintain it.
    10-17-2015 10:51 PM
  24. CygnusOrion's Avatar
    I think MS gets it very well. The only thing left is to get developers on board with universal apps and get mobile payment solution.
    neo158 likes this.
    10-17-2015 11:10 PM
  25. Implement's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile wins if they get Android and IoS apps working, AND allow people to sideload them if the developers do not "officially" put them on the Store.

    I don't think people realize how huge that is.

    A mobile operating system that can run UWP apps, IOS apps, and Android apps.

    Once people become aware of that, we win.

    Google and Apple will never do this. Apple especially.
    TechAbstract and neo158 like this.
    10-17-2015 11:37 PM
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