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02-01-2016 04:06 PM
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  1. etphoto's Avatar
    This is a fair point, but seeing the numbers really makes one wonder if developers would even bother now, especially for NA based apps, or worse, they decide to pull their app :/



    Huh? Isn't that the point of the massive Windows 10 push, Universal Apps. Developers would make app that works across all devices. Therefore the number of WM10 users is a moot point for a developer, or should be at least.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    01-30-2016 12:00 AM
  2. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    01-30-2016 12:21 AM
  3. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Huh? Isn't that the point of the massive Windows 10 push, Universal Apps. Developers would make app that works across all devices. Therefore the number of WM10 users is a moot point for a developer, or should be at least.
    The problem is with those apps that serve no purpose on devices other than phones. For example, these grocery store apps would not have any purpose on anything but phones, so the grocery store chain would not bother to develop Universal Apps.
    01-30-2016 01:56 AM
  4. captaincalamity's Avatar
    Microsoft will probably ditch Windows phone all together soon and why not, for them its not really bringing them any financial gain, they have more than enough focus on the other departments to justify a failing element within a huge business, its a bit like a failing area of a company, they allow it to tick along for as long as it can, usually due to the fact management are focused on other areas and haven't the time to deal with the bad egg area, but then it starts to create negative feedback from external sources and you have to deal with it, usually by relocating or closing said department. I would say that they will possibly R&D the surface phone, but will get it to a certain level and then the upper management will probably and justifiably shelve the project and focus on more lucrative and easier markets as they have the choice to do that, they already have their roots spread into the opposing iOS and Android markets and can easily develop that area quicker and with less negative or financial fallout.
    01-30-2016 03:24 AM
  5. Manfred Pohler's Avatar
    With universal apps there is a big chance (for MS) to change the things.
    For me as a developer it's just a little effort to support mobile also when I create a Windows (desktop) app.

    Some "polish" (enable specific things in the APIs) and it is a perfect plattform - billions of customers from desktop - and this could close the "app gap".
    So from my point of view Desktop has a chance to make the things going for mobile...
    aximtreo and Zuhaib Nazir like this.
    01-30-2016 08:34 AM
  6. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    Microsoft will probably ditch Windows phone all together soon and why not, for them its not really bringing them any financial gain, they have more than enough focus on the other departments to justify a failing element within a huge business, its a bit like a failing area of a company, they allow it to tick along for as long as it can, usually due to the fact management are focused on other areas and haven't the time to deal with the bad egg area, but then it starts to create negative feedback from external sources and you have to deal with it, usually by relocating or closing said department. I would say that they will possibly R&D the surface phone, but will get it to a certain level and then the upper management will probably and justifiably shelve the project and focus on more lucrative and easier markets as they have the choice to do that, they already have their roots spread into the opposing iOS and Android markets and can easily develop that area quicker and with less negative or financial fallout.
    I suspect it has nothing to do with management not having time to deal with it. I suspect it's more of a case that Microsoft just doesn't want to announce it's exiting the mobile phone market because of the negative effect it will have on their company. They're probably just trying to let it die naturally in an attempt to slip out the back door so to speak, but the problem is, it doesn't seem to be working as everyone has already caught on to them.
    xandros9 likes this.
    01-30-2016 08:59 AM
  7. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    With universal apps there is a big chance (for MS) to change the things.
    For me as a developer it's just a little effort to support mobile also when I create a Windows (desktop) app.

    Some "polish" (enable specific things in the APIs) and it is a perfect plattform - billions of customers from desktop - and this could close the "app gap".
    So from my point of view Desktop has a chance to make the things going for mobile...
    Since you're a developer, I am genuinally curious as to how you think the strategy of universal apps will help the mobile phone division. I can see how it makes sense for other devices and of course there is no doubt it will be handy and cool to have the same apps on your phone as your desktop. The trouble is most people want a smartphone not just an extension of their desktop device. What I mean is, how will it help for apps that only make sense on a smartphone?
    01-30-2016 09:06 AM
  8. Manfred Pohler's Avatar
    Since you're a developer, I am genuinally curious as to how you think the strategy of universal apps will help the mobile phone division. I can see how it makes sense for other devices and of course there is no doubt it will be handy and cool to have the same apps on your phone as your desktop. The trouble is most people want a smartphone not just an extension of their desktop device. What I mean is, how will it help for apps that only make sense on a smartphone?
    I guess the border between "mobile" and phone will sooner or later disappear.
    Which app will only make sense on my phone and not on my LTE 10" tablet?
    Just kidding - I know there are some...

    But from my perspective it is (can / could be) a way to make WM more attractive it there are good universal apps available.
    Imagine there are a bunch of real cool apps you use on your desktop.
    And some of them also exist on the phone - and (I think this is important) only on Window Mobile.
    For an example (and there are bad news from my perspective) think about Excel.
    You make your football high score table there (with a lot of detail) - later you take the sheet to the next match on your phone and add "tochdown at XX:YY by ZZZ" to the table.
    Or take the same sheet to a meeting with your friends discussing who performed best...

    Or another example - use your phone when you visit a potential new home. Take pictures, make notes...
    And at home - at the desktop the app can make plans out of your pictures taken.
    Build a 3D model - check how you new home will be...
    Or when looking at another house - check (with you phone) how the other offers compare to this one...

    I hope you can (somehow) agree that there is a place (need?) for apps which "extend your phone".
    And now there are developers which make such apps - and with every (real great for your needs) app you will think about how nice it would be if you could use the mobile version of this app.
    Given the right number of great apps this could make a change in how many people would like to have this "desktop extension device".
    Such a device must not fail in other situations (must be a good phone too), but if that is the case having it would make sense.

    And in that situation an Android developer may think about making "his app" available on WM (since there is a market).
    And (that's what I love with universal apps) - he can also make a desktop version of this app - with just a litte more work.
    And here is the next point - convert "your Android app" to WM - hm.,,.. 2% market share - not worth the effort.
    But thinking of billions of Desktop (Tablet) Users could change your mind.

    From my point of view there are three reasons (except marketing) to grow the "need" for a specific device.
    Good "hardware", cool features, and an app for everything.

    A last thing - above I wrote, that "there a bad things" when I mentioned Excel.
    I'm not a marketing or business guy - but if my goal would be to make WM a great thing and get a good market share...
    I would under no circumstances make Excel available on competitor devices.
    Maybe in a "locked down" version (read only access or so) but making "my onw apps" run on competitors OSes removes an important argument of "why should I buy a Windows Phone".
    Because off a fully functional office suite? I get the same (and some even better) on iOS / Android,
    Continuum makes a difference - but that's a thing a lot of people even don't know what it is...
    01-30-2016 10:08 AM
  9. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    The problem is with those apps that serve no purpose on devices other than phones. For example, these grocery store apps would not have any purpose on anything but phones, so the grocery store chain would not bother to develop Universal Apps.
    Regarding the grocery store chain app example, wouldn't having their app available on the PC be a plus for them? My family uses a synced OneNote list for our grocery list. Yes, mostly we access it from our Windows Phones, but each of us has, on occasion, enjoyed the convenience of accessing the list from our respective PCs to quickly add or to check on an item. Maybe grocery stores would want their app available on their customers PC to increase it's availability / convenience. A universal app would make sense for that.

    I really don't know if grocery stores would think this was an advantage, by my family does.

    Is there another example of a phone only app that wouldn't have any purpose if it was accessible on the PC?

    Just wondering.
    Last edited by Kevin Rush; 01-30-2016 at 11:27 AM.
    aximtreo likes this.
    01-30-2016 11:11 AM
  10. aximtreo's Avatar
    More than slightly exaggerated if you ask me. The verge has been chomping at the bit to push this story. Including holding a mock Windows Phone funeral. But it is the nature of blogs like the Verge to exaggerate, embellish, spin and outright lie to persuade the mobile community how to think about this phone.

    This product is morphing from Windows Phone 7 and it is going to take time to complete. It has to be tested, torn apart and tested again. It has to have one bullet proof OS since it will be paired with its operating system with tighter integration than any other mobile platform. That takes time. Smart phone buyers don't have to wait around until that happens and many don't. And that's expected. The verge has a very simpleminded audience and simpleminded bloggers. All they have ever developed is a keen sense of selling technical dishonesty and making that mainstream. It works and it sells ad space. But that isn't the truth. Its pure sophistry

    But you cannot deny the improvements in this OS and understand that its not a finished product. Usable yes, but still being developed.
    Pure sophistry! Is the same as "BS"? My guess is yes and you hit the nail on the head with your overall post. Thanks.
    01-30-2016 12:02 PM
  11. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Regarding the grocery store chain app example, wouldn't having their app available on the PC be a plus for them? My family uses a synced OneNote list for our grocery list. Yes, mostly we access it from our Windows Phones, but each of us has, on occasion, enjoyed the convenience of accessing the list from our respective PCs to quickly add or to check on an item. Maybe grocery stores would want their app available on their customers PC to increase it's availability / convenience. A universal app would make sense for that.

    I really don't know if grocery stores would think this was an advantage, by my family does.

    Is there another example of a phone only app that wouldn't have any purpose if it was accessible on the PC?

    Just wondering.
    Starbucks. Nobody would order his or her drink from a desktop PC or Xbox. Mobile orders are ready in 3-9 minutes, so mobile orders would take place when one is in the same shopping plaza where Starbucks is located or parking his/her car, or walking to Starbucks from a bus stop.

    Scanning the Starbucks card would only be done with a mobile phone.
    01-30-2016 01:06 PM
  12. TechFreak1's Avatar
    The problem is with those apps that serve no purpose on devices other than phones. For example, these grocery store apps would not have any purpose on anything but phones, so the grocery store chain would not bother to develop Universal Apps.
    Web apps (project westminister) are perfect for grocery chains :) as they can update their website with minimal work done to the app.
    01-30-2016 02:21 PM
  13. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Web apps (project westminister) are perfect for grocery chains :) as they can update their website with minimal work done to the app.
    The problem is that the web apps don't allow scanning of the loyalty card barcode, adding e-coupons directly to the rewards card, refilling prescriptions by taking a picture of the barcode. The website, even the desktop version, is pretty much useless.
    01-30-2016 06:05 PM
  14. haykol's Avatar
    I can't wait till i see the last try from MS when they release android lumia device :D i think it will be awful too :'D
    01-30-2016 07:01 PM
  15. FinancialP's Avatar
    Windows Phone has been dead. It's been dead for years. However Microsoft will continue make phones because Microsoft never ever,ever, tried to dominate the market. Not in the past 16 years they haven't tried.

    They just want to be in the market, and that's all.

    It's just people in these places with high expectations.
    01-30-2016 08:53 PM
  16. ArtificiallyYours's Avatar
    Boy I cannot wait to see all the posters who "LOL DIDN'T READ THE ARTICLE" post in this thread thinking they 'get it'.
    01-30-2016 09:14 PM
  17. TLRtheory's Avatar
    Verge has already declared the OS as dead.
    What's to say about The Verge? ...it's The Verge; not a reputable tech outlet.

    I hesitate to even address them a technology outlet... they are, and always have been a fashion website with a thin 'techie' skin overlaying it. It's all about what's stylish, what materials are in... they care more about convincing the public that they absolutely want to - metaphorically speaking - judge a book by it's cover.

    Until a product is released with a metal ring, aluminum instead of "cheap, gross plastic" and chamfered edges they don't want to acknowledge anything a piece of technology can be good at.

    There's something to be said about them immediately having a MacBook (and open, admitted Apple bias) shoved down their throat the day someone's hired to be on team verge... which I'd forgive if they weren't so damned inconsistent. For example, in their "Best of 2015" video they praised Apple's app store for having "hundreds of thousands" of apps then; in the same video, bashed the Windows Store when technically, Windows (whether we're talking desktop store apps or mobile store apps) has that same milestone of "hundreds of thousands" of apps under it's belt too. Tom Warren is their only shred of Microsoft-flavored anything, and he's pretty much let himself turn into Topolsky 2.0.

    Their opinions involving Microsoft anything - including that article about Windows Phone being dead - are generally horrifically misinformed, and are picked and torn apart by it's own users (and rightfully so).
    Last edited by TLRtheory; 01-31-2016 at 05:58 AM.
    HeyCori likes this.
    01-31-2016 05:26 AM
  18. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    I can't wait till i see the last try from MS when they release android lumia device :D i think it will be awful too :'D
    Of course it would. It would be running android.
    Rugish Dapeca likes this.
    01-31-2016 05:33 AM
  19. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Been away for a couple of days, did I miss something, happily working away using my SP3 pro, my desktop and my 1520, and according to the posts on here, I need to panic like a silly sheep and no longer enjoy Windows 10 on a phone, even though it isn't officially been released yet.

    Teach me to have a few days off, silly me.
    01-31-2016 05:36 AM
  20. TLRtheory's Avatar
    As for my non-Verge-bashing input... I don't think Windows Phone is dead. Microsoft is, however, making a lot of bad decisions that spread quickly. Admittedly, the damn near-impossible Lumia 950 preorders almost made me ditch the platform for an iPhone just out of how frustrating it was - that **** almost made Microsoft lose a Windows Phone diehard like myself. Even before that there was an absolutely maddening process of getting them to tell us an actual release date. Then there was the troublesome, poorly timed (and low-profile) Lumia 950/950XL release which was done before they overcame any obstacles with CDMA carriers... the Lumia 950/950XL couldn't have possibly made an impact released like that... but their biggest oversight is what it always has been: public relations.

    When a vocal minority of displeased users speaks out against the Lumia 950/950XL that's supposed to save your mobile division, you quickly step in because 1 loud displeased person can be heard over 20 silent satisfied users. The Lumia 950/950XL which are often associated with bugs are actually met with many more favorable reviews than it is negative... and Microsoft's missing a out on a good opportunity for a "Hear what people are saying about the Lumia 950" ad campaign.

    Apple has this down to a science. Look at the iPad Pro. From the moment it was revealed that it'd run iOS with no mouse or expansion slot, everything about this being a "Pro" device was immediately questioned. And upon it's release, a striking amount of our favorite reviewers (Linus Tech Tips, Austin Evans, etc) and others determined it was absolutely not for professionals that wanted to get any professional-grade work done - just as we could expect. How does Apple fire back? Showing us professional work that has been done on an iPad Pro. I'm certainly not replacing my laptop with it, but the userbase that already has is much bigger than me.

    The app selection of Windows Phone is improving every single day, and Microsoft has a lot of very obvious ways they can use that to combat the stigma that Windows Phone has no apps... but they don't. So when The Verge's team wants to make a ridiculously cherry-picked claim that the app situation on Windows Phone is getting worse - they can get away with it. For a company like Microsoft, Windows Phone can be kept alive indefinitely - and kept alive even in the face of horrid numbers/press... but if they wanna see the situation improve they're going to have to take a card from Apple's book and shift focus towards fixing their damn PR.
    Last edited by TLRtheory; 02-01-2016 at 10:38 AM.
    HeyCori, MikeX74 and libra89 like this.
    01-31-2016 05:52 AM
  21. R3mis's Avatar
    As for my non-Verge-bashing input... I don't think Windows Phone is dead. Microsoft is, however, making a lot of bad decisions that spread quickly. Admittedly, damn near-impossible Lumia 950 preorders almost made me ditch the platform for an iPhone just out of how frustrating it was - that **** almost made Microsoft lose a Windows Phone diehard. Before that there was an absolutely maddening process of getting them to tell us an actual release date. Then there was the troublesome, poorly timed (and low-profile) Lumia 950/950XL release which was done before they overcame any obstacles with CDMA carriers... but their biggest oversight is what it always has been: public relations.

    When a vocal minority of displeased users speaks out against the Lumia 950/950XL that's supposed to save your mobile division, you quickly step in because 1 loud displeased person can be heard over 20 silent satisfied users. The Lumia 950/950XL which are often associated with bugs are actually met with many more favorable reviews than it is negative... and Microsoft's missing a out on a good opportunity for a "Hear what people are saying about the Lumia 950" ad campaign.

    Apple has this down to a science. Look at the iPad Pro. From the moment it was revealed that it'd run iOS with no mouse or expansion slot, everything about this being a "Pro" device was immediately questioned. And upon it's release, a striking amount of our favorite reviewers (Linus Tech Tips, Austin Evans, etc) and others determined it was absolutely not for professionals that wanted to get any professional-grade work done - just as we could expect. How does Apple fire back? Showing us professional work that has been done on an iPad Pro. I'm certainly not replacing my laptop with it, but the userbase that already has is much bigger than me.

    The app selection of Windows Phone is improving every single day, and Microsoft has a lot of very obvious ways they can use that to combat the stigma that Windows Phone has no apps... but they don't. So when The Verge's team wants to make a ridiculously cherry-picked claim that the app situation on Windows Phone is getting worse - they can get away with it. For a company like Microsoft, Windows Phone can be kept alive indefinitely - and kept alive even in the face of horrid numbers/press... but if they wanna see the situation improve they're going to have to take a card from Apple's book and shift focus towards fixing their damn PR.
    I agree 100%. I feel like all this is not because the platform is bad, it is about a complete lack of effort from Microsoft. Like they just don't care. No marketing, no nothing. I have never seen any kind of marketing towards Lumias since I bought my 930 in summer of 2014. And back then, I had no idea some Lumia 930 even existed, I only had some vague knowledge that there are Nokia phones that run Windows Phone, I had to do my own research to find out that this is the phone for me.

    Look at the other two platforms; iOS is so dull and boring it makes me want to jump off a bridge. And android? Man, that thing looks like it was made by crazy clowns in a circus.

    Windows Phone is the best choice for me. It always will be. And it suffers from Microsoft's bad reputation. Whenever I tell somebody that I have a Windows Phone, they tell me that it sucks, without even seeing the system. It "sucks because Windows Vista sucked and Microsoft sucks and why would I put Windows on my phone when I hate it so much on my PC?" Then I show them my phone and how the system works and they are amazed. This way I even convinced a few people to buy a Windows Phone themselves, neither one has ever complained "it sucks". They all love it, as I do.

    Microsoft is sabotaging themselves with bad PR, no marketing. They have a very bad public reputation (at least in my country) and they do nothing about it. They frustrate their own fans and so on ... Man I really love the platform, somebody, please wake Microsoft up!
    Last edited by R3mis; 01-31-2016 at 06:30 AM.
    01-31-2016 06:17 AM
  22. Bobvfr's Avatar
    I was channel hopping earlier and saw QVC showing a "How to use Windows 10" guide and the presenter went on to say how she loves 10, the best OS ever and how to get the best out of it on your desktop, laptop, tablet and WINDOWS PHONE.

    Yes I can now say I have heard of windows 10 and even Windows 10 mobile on the telly
    01-31-2016 06:34 AM
  23. mggm100's Avatar
    If grocery stores become aware of this, then yes they would see the advantage. But I think they have to be shown how their apps could be more convenient.

    I use OneNote the same way you do. I love that capability. Typing out lists on a phone gets tiresome. It's a lot quicker to use the keyboard at home and then have the information available in the phone when you're in the store.
    01-31-2016 06:57 AM
  24. TechFreak1's Avatar
    The problem is that the web apps don't allow scanning of the loyalty card barcode, adding e-coupons directly to the rewards card, refilling prescriptions by taking a picture of the barcode. The website, even the desktop version, is pretty much useless.
    Well, with web apps you can have native code and web reliant code :).

    The point I was trying to make is that grocery chains can have a web app for their content, and invoke native code for additional functionality. For instance the Game Reward app does this, it fetches content (web wrapper),is able to invoke the camera, integrate with the wallet, store your reward card offline now previously it is online only etc.

    wp_ss_20160131_0001.png

    Project Westminster as far as I'm aware is supposed to expand this functionality therefore giving the impression a web app is a native app. However things can always change and it may be deemed that a combination of web reliant code and native code is still the best method. As allowing web code deeper access does open up a whole new can of worms.
    mandong likes this.
    01-31-2016 09:06 AM
  25. skstrials's Avatar

    Is there another example of a phone only app that wouldn't have any purpose if it was accessible on the PC?

    Just wondering.
    I can think of plenty that would not make sense on a pc.

    - smartwatch app
    - fitness tracking (unless you like running with a desktop on your back)
    - car usage tracking (since you would not have a pc in your car)

    Posted via the Windows Central App for BlackBerry 10
    01-31-2016 09:19 AM
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