02-01-2016 04:06 PM
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  1. sikurunana's Avatar
    Here's what I think. This is simply my observation.

    This main reason why Windows Phone took off at the beginning was due to Nokia's influence to provide a better OS than Symbian. Before Samsung and Apple took over, Nokia has a huge fan base. By the time Nokia realised that Symbian was not gonna go anywhere, it was already too late. Android and iOS has already matured in the market and Nokia and Microsoft's attempt to push Windows Phone with Lumia devices wasn't entirely successful, but at the same time wasn't a compete failure either, because there were a large base of Nokia fans that switched to Lumia. At this point, Windows Phone is still a developing OS, learning from its competitors and users to create a better OS eco-system.

    Now that Nokia is no longer in the picture, everyone is relying on Microsoft to delivery its users with excellent experience with Lumia devices. The thing here is that the customer's expectations are very high, and everyone is eager to see what Windows 10 Mobile has to offer. I guess why Microsoft is delaying the release of the update is because they want to offer a seamless update with minimal bug and this of course takes time. Constant iterations are made with the help of the users from the Insider program. Also, you should keep in mind that Microsoft stated that they will release Windows 10 during the first quarter of January, so that could be anytime between January and April

    You can't really compare Windows Mobile with iOS and Android, because the experience given and features provided are completely different. Windows Mobile clearly has its own unique features and will always cater to a specific group of people. It's not that Microsoft doesn't care about its users, it just that Windows Mobile will take quite a while to mature in the market and its not something that will happen overnight. I'm sure once they have Windows 10 up and running on all devices, constant updates will start to follow in order to improve their operating system. As Microsoft mentioned Windows 10 is no longer a product, but a service.

    Windows Phone/Mobile is clearly not dead. People who say it's dead are the one that heavily compare it with iOS and Android. Also when sales figures go down, that doesn't mean it cannot rise back up again. These things will take time. Patience is the key!

    This is open for discussion.. :)
    svknet and WinCoffee like this.
    01-31-2016 09:54 PM
  2. rageofthemike's Avatar
    With regards to the app gap aspect, I do have quite a number of android apps that are either missing in wp, or have limited functionality if available.

    Examples are sms back up, apk extractor, and tons of games. shadowgun, square enix games, etc. Hell, even emulators are scarce on wp. no epsxe, ppsspp, etc.
    01-31-2016 10:08 PM
  3. WinCoffee's Avatar
    There is reasons why iOS sells so well and it's not because OS itself. It's more that "Brand" Apple have made. All teenagers want iPhone because celebrities have it and everybody else have it. they don't really understand that Apple really just sells 2 years old techonology twice expensive in a nice looking shell.
    Why Android sells even more? Because more people understand over phone specs and price. But they choose android because it's familiar (Was there before WP) and it has all apps too. some people might switch to Windowsphone because they like it more personally. Some people might care about app gap so they choose Android or iOS. But I guess people might fell in love with W10M when it's officially released. :D so it's too damn early to say "Windowsphone is dead"
    And sites like verge just need some media sexy stuff to say and people, just love to bash Windowsphone as failure.
    But really I don't even understand how mobile phones turned into this big thing like people arguing over OS:ses.
    02-01-2016 12:12 AM
  4. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    Microsoft is sabotaging themselves with bad PR, no marketing. They have a very bad public reputation (at least in my country) and they do nothing about it. They frustrate their own fans and so on ... Man I really love the platform, somebody, please wake Microsoft up!
    Same bad reputation here in my country, at least in my city and in my workplace, and the previous one...most of it towards the windows 10 and 10 mobile. I think it started with windows 8 on Pcs...anyway, people are angry here because many have been framed by MS with their OS reboots and no upgrade paths in the past.
    My mobile operator was among the first to sell the Lumia 950, very close to the official launch date...I think it took them 2 weeks to start selling it in their stores. After massive returns, now they do not have it anymore, and do not seem to be stocking it. Last answer I've got from them was that they have no plans to sell this model again until it is able to run a non beta OS, as they cannot afford to sell a beta/demo/testing device to a real customer.
    02-01-2016 01:03 AM
  5. RUCKUS_US's Avatar
    With sales declining by 57%, are the days of Windows Phone really over?
    Websites like Verge has already declared the OS as dead. And Microsoft doesn't really care about it. Last 3 phones- 950/XL and 550 didn't made any impact on the market. And the upcoming Lumia 650 is also on the same line. I don't think that the rumored Surface Phone will change the situation much if Microsoft continues the same attitude.

    So is it safe to assume that Windows Phone is dead?
    Look at the world market not just the US.
    02-01-2016 01:09 AM
  6. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    I fear that a lot of people have placed unreasonable expectations on the "Surface Phone." The idea is great: a hero device built with premium materials and boasting killer specs that rivals or surpasses everything on the market. Assuming that it becomes a reality, what's really going to change? Are devs that haven't embraced WP/W10M suddenly going to want to build apps for it? If not, what's the point? You can have the most powerful, most beautiful phone the world has ever known, but if the apps aren't there, it might as well be a paperweight.
    Good point here. Also, even with the apps, if the OS is still a buggy mess, it won't matter also, even if you do have the other two factors.
    02-01-2016 01:24 AM
  7. Anurag singh12's Avatar
    I believe rather than a Surface phone, Windows need a good mid-range budget phone which will give them some market share. And by good mid-range I mean a phone which is prices very judiciously. Microsoft need to give something special to the customers. If the OS has some bugs and it lacks few apps, then give them good hardware on a good price. Then people will definitely buy the phones. Whenever someone buys a windows phone, it feels like they are compromising on all the sides-hardware, software, pricing. They just buy it because they love Windows phone. Because they are windows fans. That 2-3% market share of windows phone is because of those fans. If Microsoft need to grow beyond these numbers, they need to give something special to customers. Not everyone will compromise. There are plenty of options in the market.
    Laura Knotek and libra89 like this.
    02-01-2016 01:57 AM
  8. svknet's Avatar
    I was Nokia fan and owned several Symbian based phones before Windows Phone came into picture. Later Nokia embraced Windows Phone, and me too became Windows Phone fan.
    I liked overall look and feel of WP7. Then WP8 and WP8.1 came with some more improvements. Still WP8 felt boring and did not had novelty which was present with WP7.
    Now W10M has made me fall in love again with Windows Phone/Mobile :)
    Though W10M Technical Preview has some (many!) issues, I am sure it would be good option for mobile OS. I feel pity of Tech editors who have started publishing articles of WP is dead, but equally I feel bad that MS itself is also not giving much needed attention. I hope Windows Phone/Mobile does not become another "Microsoft Mediaroom".
    02-01-2016 04:57 AM
  9. visu9211's Avatar
    I don't think WM10 is going anywhere.

    Microsoft is very aware that mobile is the future of computing. The last Lumia phones of this release cycle were, as they said, for the fans who wanted updated hardware. The fans are often times people on the Insider release cycle and "in the know". This really is their "retrenching" phase, as their vision of the OS on mobiles is relatively incomplete. This vision is a seamless Windows OS everywhere, and it's in its infancy at this point. There is incentive to make apps simply because they can target (mostly) anything running W10, which is a lot of machines and devices. It'll become harder to ignore at a certain point, because it'll be simply everywhere. Project Centennial is a good example (it brings Win32 apps to the Store). So like a package manager for Windows.

    It's not as if they knew this wasn't coming either. They didn't advertise the phones because it didn't jive with their vision and it wasn't their best step forward. They knew this. It wasn't going to win the hearts and minds of those on other OSes. They know it wasn't ready for primetime. Their next step, however, will be their best step forward. Those of us giving feedback with the Insider program are helping to further that goal in terms of software. The mobile market is reaching maturity and products are offering less and less in terms of differentiating features, benefits from prior years models, and iterations of the same UI. Matias Duarte of Google lamented the stale state of phone UI in December, and really doesn't know where to go from here. The market is definitely primed for a change.

    Everyone was down on the Surface when it first came out and still were up until last year, and said that Microsoft should just quit making hardware. Bing was another one people said should just pack up shop, it's a waste. Again, it's doing very well as of late. HoloLens was a total surprise, and shows they're looking into the future of computing.

    They're definitely learning, contrary to what some people may think, and definitely turning things around. Surface slowly but surely set a tone for tablets and hybrids. It's not unthinkable that the same could happen with phones.
    You are right but You have one fact wrong... Even with all the issues of less sales, Write-Off of Surface RT, you could see that MS was investing and making it better... You don't see that dedication from MS on Mobile front...
    02-01-2016 05:01 AM
  10. txo's Avatar
    New phone sales decline is not an indication of platfrom decline. It just says that the old HW is good enough. I owned L820 which is very nice and good enough phone even today. The only reason why I bought 950 is that I'm a developer and need current ultimate device for app testing.

    Second and more important point is it doesn't matter. Universal platform makes phone market share hunt a bit less important. Assuming Surface / tablet windows platform keeps going.
    02-01-2016 05:19 AM
  11. murtaza_p's Avatar
    yes, the windows phone seems to be dead but is windows mobile as an os dead? No.
    with manufactures like Acer and Xiaomi I don't see the platform dying anytime soon and Xiaomi which is known to produce superb quality handsets for really low costs with a windows OS seems like the people wont mind switching . I've had the Indian variant of the Xiaomi MI4 and the phone is pretty decent for its price and just now Xiaomi has announced that the MI5 would also have a windows 10 variant which seems to be good news to the windows phone fans including me looking for an options outside the Microsoft stable. I've kind of accepted the fact that Microsoft just cant produce good looking phones right after they came out with the 950/950XL which cant match up with the looks of the previous Nokia branded lumians, I still feel my newly acquired 1520 looks far superior than the new 950/950XL and this goes with the previous lumians I've owned as well the 1020/920/720.
    Yes the OS is still half baked , its still buggy , still occasionally crashes at times but it has some scope as seen with the technical builds, while the windows phone is dead the Windows 10 OS isn't as more and more manufactures are opting for a Windows 10 variant of their handsets. While the LG G4 has my primary sim in it I am some how more inclined to use more of my 1520 with my work number it , there is something about this OS that just draws you back. Now I aint a fan boy and I've tried to leave this platform on several occasions but you ultimately feel like all the time giving it "one last chance"
    02-01-2016 05:56 AM
  12. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    New phone sales decline is not an indication of platfrom decline. It just says that the old HW is good enough. I owned L820 which is very nice and good enough phone even today. The only reason why I bought 950 is that I'm a developer and need current ultimate device for app testing.
    Yep I'm also training to become a developer for the Windows platform. I wanted the 950 so I could test continuum integration and make use of the features myself. The apps I create, I plan to use. Given my high standards that means my apps must be PERFECT.
    sniperboywc likes this.
    02-01-2016 06:52 AM
  13. Paolo Ferrazza's Avatar
    Starbucks. Nobody would order his or her drink from a desktop PC or Xbox. Mobile orders are ready in 3-9 minutes, so mobile orders would take place when one is in the same shopping plaza where Starbucks is located or parking his/her car, or walking to Starbucks from a bus stop.

    Scanning the Starbucks card would only be done with a mobile phone.
    Ever heard of tablets? Ever heard of 2in1 (that are replacing old laptops?). You are in Starbucks and working with your 2in1. I mean, we do not know if the strategy will succeed but tons of people said symbian was enough when iphone was first released... More and more touch enabled portable devices are entering the market, even if they are not phones.
    02-01-2016 07:26 AM
  14. cybersaurusrex's Avatar
    It's deader than dead.
    theefman likes this.
    02-01-2016 07:53 AM
  15. Joachim T's Avatar
    I really really wanted a Lumix 950. But following all the news and this thread (and many more) I ordered yesterday a Nexus 5X.
    I still really hope that all this neglect to Windows 10 mobile is "only" ARM-related and they already focus on the Surface Phone, which would be a game changer with native x86 apps running on it. But it's really sad that MS could have, but was not wanting to fill in the "progress void" that Android and iOS are resting in since at last four years. What can a mobile phone do today, what it could not in 2012? Why is there any reason to buy a new one, except it breaks?

    Continuum and the same OS on both PC and mobile phone sounded so great, but then MS dropped all support (I did not even get a test device from MS Austria until today, regardless that we are premium customer with MS regularly in the office!). It's not only the carrier, it's MS itself absolutely not pushing there own devices to customers that ask for them several times, willing to exchange all phones to MS if they prove to be good business phones.

    So let's hope that the x86 mobile phone vision will be the revolution it could be. And let's hope MS will focus on MS again and not on iOS.
    02-01-2016 07:57 AM
  16. Alessandro Dut's Avatar
    This is a long battle. Saying WP is dead means only a Pawn has been taken.
    Mobile is only beginning, while WP has declined, iPad has also declined 25% while surface reached new records up by 30%.

    With ecosystem becoming more important each day, the battle will favor those who offers the best integration. Neither Apple nor Android can provide what Microsoft does with xbox, surface, PC, WP, Band, Hololens... all working together.

    Dont worry, WP isnt dead, in fact it is just beginning.
    02-01-2016 07:59 AM
  17. slooksterpsv's Avatar
    Glad someone said it. It's just the beginning. Just wait. WP will rise
    02-01-2016 08:01 AM
  18. oviedofreak82's Avatar
    I might be labeled a fan boy, but I will continue to use Windows phone/mobile even if it's popularity drops to below 1% global market share. I use Microsoft products all the time and love the integration between phone, PC, tablet, etc. It just works for me!
    davebwi likes this.
    02-01-2016 08:12 AM
  19. pericle's Avatar
    Lol, So many Windows Phone fans are still in denial about the fate of Windows Phone. I suppose we will have to give them some more time to grieve and come to the acceptance stage.
    theefman and cbobb123 like this.
    02-01-2016 08:22 AM
  20. DavidinCT's Avatar
    It's not dead, it's just hanging on... Paul pretty much clears this up.

    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/wind...-windows-phone

    It's a Microsoft product, they will support it to XX/XX/XXXX and after that, it's done. Just like versions of Windows. With the notes above, and what Microsoft has said publicly, it's almost to say, the writing is on the wall.

    I love Windows Phone but, after this latest thing buying NON-Universal apps will drop to a minium for me. As in a year or 2, it's possable there wont be new WIndows Phone models.

    Really read the above, he has been with the press on Windows and Microsoft for many years now. Windows professionals normally read his blogs or his writing as he knows a lot of people at Microsoft

    Remember something for business people, Microsoft does not just answer to their consumers but, more from their stock holders. How long can you actually hold on to a losing product, the losses for Windows Phone is not in the millions, it's in the billions and that will only last for so long....

    Nice try Microsoft.
    libra89 likes this.
    02-01-2016 08:43 AM
  21. Pete's Avatar
    To my view, Paul Thurrott isn't more averse to click-bait than any other tech journalist. He'd much rather court controversy than be respected for journalistic integrity. But that's just my view.

    I tend to respect Mary Jo Foley more. In her analysis of the revenue report, she states in part:
    Sure, some will say that Microsoft execs don't want to draw attention to the continued tanking of Windows Phone and slowing PC and tablet markets, hence the focus on services. But Microsoft execs claimed to be positively surprised about the performance of the phone segment this quarter.

    Even with Microsoft's decision to cut many former Nokians who joined the company following the controversial decision for Microsoft to buy Nokia's handset division, cut way back on the number of Windows Phones the company would field, and basically put Lumias on barely-existent life support until Microsoft's next phase of its mobile business materializes (Surface Phone and/or other ARM- and/or Intel-based form factors?), Microsoft execs claimed they viewed the terrible Windows Phone performance this quarter as a bit better than expected.
    Source: Microsoft continues its pivot to being all about cloud services | ZDNet

    Yes, it's tempting and fun to jab at Microsoft at every opportunity, but I don't see the need to join in, I don't see the need to throw my Windows Phone in the trash because the internet told me to.
    libra89 likes this.
    02-01-2016 08:58 AM
  22. muvig's Avatar
    what do you expect if the developers at MS are not using Windows phones but other platforms,
    Symbian was very rich in features, just like PCs, one was able to manipulate many things to the way you want, but most of these features have been removed or left out by MS
    02-01-2016 09:09 AM
  23. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    There is a new Vaio WIndows 10 phone about to be released. This is aimed at the corporate market though:

    Vaio to announce a Windows 10 Mobile phone on the 4th February - WMPoweruser
    02-01-2016 09:13 AM
  24. theefman's Avatar
    Lol, So many Windows Phone fans are still in denial about the fate of Windows Phone. I suppose we will have to give them some more time to grieve and come to the acceptance stage.

    Bet if it was IOS in such a situation no one here would be debating its death, they'd be dancing in the streets, literally.
    02-01-2016 09:34 AM
  25. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Bet if it was IOS in such a situation no one here would be debating its death, they'd be dancing in the streets, literally.
    Even if it was iOS or Android I'd still be worried. It's concerning for me when any OS dies, regardless of where it comes from. I want to see more competition not less. So no, I wouldn't be dancing. Heck, it even concerns me that Firefox OS died.
    anon(6078578) and libra89 like this.
    02-01-2016 09:40 AM
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