1. wcpusr's Avatar
    As Ballmer not once said, the most important thing is making money, which at the end of the day is the only important thing about any business, so someone can be considered a winner. Leaving aside market share, as a developer I also consider the quality of a product to be an important point when picking a winner. Is there actually a department where MS makes more money than its direct competitor? Let's examine:

    Windows Server vs Linux -> we all know Linux is used in more of the most secured and important facilities and organizations on the planet, where even bringin the name Windows is considered a joke -> Linux wins
    Xbox vs PS -> Sony makes more money
    Azure vs AWS -> Amazon makes more money
    Phones vs iPhone -> Apple makes more money, Android wins by market share
    Surface Line vs respective Apple line -> Apple makes more money
    Bing vs Google Search -> Google usage is a distant winner, Google makes more money
    C# vs Java -> Java devs make more money (look average salary wherever you want), also Java is more widely used than .NET in buisness (StackOverflow statistics for reference)
    Dynamics vs SAP ERP -> SAP makes more money
    Skype vs any other chat client -> Skype is a distant #n in usage and capabilities compared to others like Whatsapp, Messenger, Viber and so on (and declining) -> Skype is not a winner definitely
    Visual Studio Code vs Sublime (for example) -> Sublime (for example) wins by a mile
    Mice and keyboards vs Logitech (for example) -> Logitech makes more money
    Outlook vs Gmail -> user base says it all -> Google wins
    OneDrive vs Dropbox/Gdrive -> GDrive wins

    Looks like Microsoft is battling on every front and lose on every front from someone else. This is pretty sad.
    09-23-2016 06:29 AM
  2. abhishek singh21's Avatar
    As Ballmer not once said, the most important thing is making money, which at the end of the day is the only important thing about any business, so someone can be considered a winner. Leaving aside market share, as a developer I also consider the quality of a product to be an important point when picking a winner. Is there actually a department where MS makes more money than its direct competitor? Let's examine:

    Windows Server vs Linux -> we all know Linux is used in more of the most secured and important facilities and organizations on the planet, where even bringin the name Windows is considered a joke -> Linux wins
    Xbox vs PS -> Sony makes more money
    Azure vs AWS -> Amazon makes more money
    Phones vs iPhone -> Apple makes more money, Android wins by market share
    Surface Line vs respective Apple line -> Apple makes more money
    Bing vs Google Search -> Google usage is a distant winner, Google makes more money
    C# vs Java -> Java devs make more money (look average salary wherever you want), also Java is more widely used than .NET in buisness (StackOverflow statistics for reference)
    Dynamics vs SAP ERP -> SAP makes more money
    Skype vs any other chat client -> Skype is a distant #n in usage and capabilities compared to others like Whatsapp, Messenger, Viber and so on (and declining) -> Skype is not a winner definitely
    Visual Studio Code vs Sublime (for example) -> Sublime (for example) wins by a mile
    Mice and keyboards vs Logitech (for example) -> Logitech makes more money
    Outlook vs Gmail -> user base says it all -> Google wins
    OneDrive vs Dropbox/Gdrive -> GDrive wins

    Looks like Microsoft is battling on every front and lose on every front from someone else. This is pretty sad.
    long list but maybe you missed out the major portion , Personal computer OS , and that is where windows / Microsoft makes it big. No direct competitor other than APPLE and we both know windows is a win win here.

    Xbox did well in last quarter by beating the sales of Play station in the USA. Refresh my memory if i am wrong :)
    09-23-2016 06:56 AM
  3. wcpusr's Avatar
    Yes, ok, Windows for home PC and that's it. Also I don't think USA only statistic matter since the product is available in the whole world. Having this, we must compare on a larger scale. There were times when WP were with bigger market share than iPhone in Spain, but as it turned out did it really matters? This is absolutely true list. Except Windows for home users Microsoft is losing on every single front it battles to someone else, no matter it's about more money or quality and this is really really sad for such a big corp with so much resources. (they are big because they have portions of money from every single front, but when you are a loser at it, does it really matter?) It is almost anecdotal.. what difference will it make if MS enters a new category or business when there will be certainly a better alternative, that will make more money or be more popular? (gl with HoloLens where indie developers, Chinese manufacturers releasing way cheaper gear, Google, Amazon, Apple and god knows who else will enter the market, because competition doesn't sleep). Microsoft will be once again a loser. This company just cannot win.. yes except for home Windows, but as we all see home Windows is going down.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    09-23-2016 08:11 AM
  4. tgp's Avatar
    Office would probably be another department in which Microsoft wins.
    09-23-2016 10:26 AM
  5. Migi2015's Avatar
    Visual Studio makes more money than any other development tool seller.
    Surface Pro/Book is #1 selling hybrid devices.
    RumoredNow and editguy like this.
    09-23-2016 11:46 PM
  6. wcpusr's Avatar
    Surface Pro/Book is #1 selling hybrid devices.
    You know this "hybrid" label ALSO serves as an excuse right?

    Office would probably be another department in which Microsoft wins.
    Office, yes. Microsoft are winners there definitely, for now
    Last edited by xandros9; 09-25-2016 at 11:48 AM.
    09-24-2016 02:30 AM
  7. dkediger's Avatar
    Your Windows Server/Linux comparison strays from your "makes more money" measuring stick - unless you remove the comparison out a few levels to the value of services that run on the servers. Even then, I'm not sure you can accurately account for the value of all the Windows severs that run purely internal (to a business) services like print services, authentication, etc.

    But just looking at it as value to Microsoft vs Linux distro publisher, theres not a ballgame.


    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    09-25-2016 09:45 AM
  8. Migi2015's Avatar
    You know this "hybrid" label ALSO serves as an excuse right?



    Office, yes. Microsoft are winners there definitely, for now
    Since when is an excuse needed for being #1 in a market segment? Are we supposed to pretend that the market segments are only: smartphone, tablet, desktop? It's not 2010 anymore.
    editguy and RumoredNow like this.
    09-25-2016 06:56 PM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    It's hard to take this seriously when the metric used to determine the winner is changed for every second issue. Some of it is also very subjective, i.e. I think VSCode smokes Sublime, but going by the metric set out at the beginning they should be tied, as neither makes money.
    The OP has also pretty much ignored every single product where MS does do really well, even the completely obvious stuff like OSes and Office. Taking the original metric, Windows Server should also be marked down a win, as no other company earns as much money selling server OSes. Ditto SQL Server, Exchange, and a lot of their other back end software.
    Of course if we're just being arbitrary, we could say that although AWS pulls in more revenue, Azure revenue is growing at twice the rate annually. So I'll say Azure wins 🙄
    09-25-2016 07:53 PM
  10. wcpusr's Avatar
    It's hard to take this seriously when the metric used to determine the winner is changed for every second issue. Some of it is also very subjective, i.e. I think VSCode smokes Sublime, but going by the metric set out at the beginning they should be tied, as neither makes money.
    The OP has also pretty much ignored every single product where MS does do really well, even the completely obvious stuff like OSes and Office. Taking the original metric, Windows Server should also be marked down a win, as no other company earns as much money selling server OSes. Ditto SQL Server, Exchange, and a lot of their other back end software.
    Of course if we're just being arbitrary, we could say that although AWS pulls in more revenue, Azure revenue is growing at twice the rate annually. So I'll say Azure wins
    Azure would win only if overtake AWS by profit. Until then AWS wins, no matter what you'll say. :)
    09-26-2016 02:20 AM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ okay, fine. Might want to see if you can find out what my point in that last paragraph actually was... it wasn't really about azure or who "wins".
    TLRtheory, HeyCori and editguy like this.
    09-26-2016 03:45 AM
  12. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Office 365 is separate from office standalone installations, right?

    By the way, in the 2016 ignite conference it was mentioned that O365 have 70 million subscribers. Considering each subscriber pays 70USD per year, that's 4.9 billion USD per year. That's a good source of revenue, right? Or is my maths wrong?
    RumoredNow and libra89 like this.
    09-27-2016 08:21 AM
  13. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    According to this report, MS made 93.6 billion USD for the year 2015: https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar15/index.html

    and Google made 74.5 Billion USD for 2015: Google announces Q4 and FY 2015 earnings: $74.5 billion in revenue for the year, $21.3 billion for Q4 | Android Central

    Apple revenue was 234 billion USD: Apple - Press Info - Apple Reports Record Fourth Quarter Results

    Amazon was 107 USD billion USD: Amazon Q4 2015 Earnings: The Numbers Are In | Variety

    Linux: 2 billion? Red Hat vows $2 billion run rate this year, some from cloud

    Kenya GDP 2015: 56 billion: Top 20 Largest Economies in Africa 2016

    So all these companies above made as much money as Egypt? Seriously?
    a5cent and HeyCori like this.
    09-27-2016 08:30 AM
  14. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Office 365 is separate from office standalone installations, right?

    By the way, in the 2016 ignite conference it was mentioned that O365 have 70 million subscribers. Considering each subscriber pays 70USD per year, that's 4.9 billion USD per year. That's a good source of revenue, right? Or is my maths wrong?
    Probably a decent approximation as you need to take into account the different tiers and whether the number includes business subscribers as well.
    09-27-2016 09:51 AM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    Probably a decent approximation as you need to take into account the different tiers and whether the number includes business subscribers as well.
    Yes. There are businesses with thousands of users for whom there are a myriad of price.

    Source: my employer is an Office 365 reseller.

    Also, many subscriptions are sold to resellers, who do not pay retail price to Microsoft. Microsoft's revenue per subscription might be half or less of retail price.
    09-27-2016 10:12 AM
  16. libra89's Avatar
    Yes. There are businesses with thousands of users for whom there are a myriad of price.

    Source: my employer is an Office 365 reseller.

    Also, many subscriptions are sold to resellers, who do not pay retail price to Microsoft. Microsoft's revenue per subscription might be half or less of retail price.
    Interesting. I wonder how this works for educational institutions. Are they counted in that number too? At work, we switched to Office 365 a few years back. Small school but still.
    Chintan Gohel, tgp and a5cent like this.
    09-27-2016 10:22 AM
  17. tgp's Avatar
    Interesting. I wonder how this works for educational institutions. Are they counted in that number too?
    Some of my colleagues are at Ignite. I'll try to remember to ask them when they return. I'm guessing though that it includes all subscriptions. My employer has a lot of them available for free (I believe several hundred), a perk of being a Microsoft partner. This would also indicate that some of those 70 million subscriptions are not used, if more partners use a fraction of what is available like us. We probably aren't using 10% of what we have available.

    Our salesmen are pushing Office 365 hard. Interestingly enough, they are finding that Google's equivalent is stiff competition. It is arguably not as good, but it is plenty for almost all business users. (A large part of Office 365's capabilities are not used.) Microsoft keeps sweetening it up though. Skype for Business is integrated in some levels of Office 365, and it is only beginning its growth.

    Users seem to be automatically drawn towards Google because of using Android and iOS devices. Of course Office 365 is available there as well, but it is not default. This backs up my opinion that default services is the primary, and possible only, reason Microsoft is pushing WM at all. It also validates an argument against WM's effectiveness in focusing on enterprise, in that business users are also consumers. In our experience, it seems that in a lot of cases a person is a consumer first, and a business user second.
    Chintan Gohel, a5cent and libra89 like this.
    09-27-2016 10:39 AM
  18. Luzy_Borgia's Avatar
    Amazing
    09-28-2016 04:44 AM
  19. HeyCori's Avatar
    ^ okay, fine. Might want to see if you can find out what my point in that last paragraph actually was... it wasn't really about azure or who "wins".
    More importantly, in the OP's fervor to paint Microsoft as a sinking ship, he ignores Microsoft's overall financial stability. As you, and many others have pointed out, one look at their stock price, quarterly reports, and growing services paints an entirely different picture. And that's not to say that everything at Microsoft is coming up roses, but there's nothing to indicate that Microsoft is at risk of folding up shop.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 09-28-2016 at 10:29 AM.
    09-28-2016 10:02 AM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    More importantly, in the OP's fervor to paint Microsoft as a sinking ship, he ignores Microsoft's overall financial stability. As you, and many others have pointed out, one look at their stock price, quarterly reports, and growing services paints an entirely different picture. And that's not to say that everything at Microsoft is coming up roses, but there's nothing to indicate that Microsoft is at risk of folding up shop.
    Stock prices can't be taken as a reliable indicator of anything anymore, but otherwise completely agree ;-)
    09-28-2016 11:14 AM
  21. worldspy99's Avatar
    They may not be #1 in anything besides OS and Office but in other business categories they are growing and bringing in revenue and also earning profit. Just being #1 isn't the only goal. If that were the case there should only be Intel processors powering all the PCs in the world, AMD can throw in the towel and go home.

    I bet that the C-Suite guys at Microsoft don't look at their entire 90+ billion dollar business with the mentality that "hey we are losing to all of these other players so let's just stop doing what we are doing and double down on what we are successful". There are plenty of other metrics, and there is a reason to diversify the portfolio into multiple segments/divisions so if one is slowing down (actually the OS and Office business) others are picking up (Azure).
    09-28-2016 06:30 PM
  22. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    When there are decathlon athletes and someone like Usain Bolt, who is more successful? How will you compare the two? MS has a big portfolio, maybe they aren't the top in each sector but combined they are a powerful and successful company
    RumoredNow likes this.
    10-02-2016 06:59 AM
  23. Dinu Noroc's Avatar
    As Ballmer not once said, the most important thing is making money, which at the end of the day is the only important thing about any business, so someone can be considered a winner. Leaving aside market share, as a developer I also consider the quality of a product to be an important point when picking a winner. Is there actually a department where MS makes more money than its direct competitor? Let's examine:

    Windows Server vs Linux -> we all know Linux is used in more of the most secured and important facilities and organizations on the planet, where even bringin the name Windows is considered a joke -> Linux wins
    Xbox vs PS -> Sony makes more money
    Azure vs AWS -> Amazon makes more money
    Phones vs iPhone -> Apple makes more money, Android wins by market share
    Surface Line vs respective Apple line -> Apple makes more money
    Bing vs Google Search -> Google usage is a distant winner, Google makes more money
    C# vs Java -> Java devs make more money (look average salary wherever you want), also Java is more widely used than .NET in buisness (StackOverflow statistics for reference)
    Dynamics vs SAP ERP -> SAP makes more money
    Skype vs any other chat client -> Skype is a distant #n in usage and capabilities compared to others like Whatsapp, Messenger, Viber and so on (and declining) -> Skype is not a winner definitely
    Visual Studio Code vs Sublime (for example) -> Sublime (for example) wins by a mile
    Mice and keyboards vs Logitech (for example) -> Logitech makes more money
    Outlook vs Gmail -> user base says it all -> Google wins
    OneDrive vs Dropbox/Gdrive -> GDrive wins

    Looks like Microsoft is battling on every front and lose on every front from someone else. This is pretty sad.
    Now think About Apple, Google and others and make a list in your mind like you did for MS, you will be amassed. Every Company has one or two strong products (winners), and the rest is average at most.

    MS doesn't need to win at everything they do, they need a few winners, and they have Windows, Office (and O356) and Surface line.
    RumoredNow, HeyCori and rmeigs like this.
    10-14-2016 02:07 AM
  24. orlbuckeye's Avatar
    MS hold 90% of the PC OS market with Windows. MS has the industry leading suite. Outlook is a paid product and Gmail is free. Well according to a head hunter for computer jobs java programmers are a dime a dozen and .NET developers are hard to find. The issue with java is it's multi-platform and .Net isn't. MS is the 2nd or 3rd most valuable tech company so they aren't doing so bad.
    HeyCori and rmeigs like this.
    11-04-2016 08:24 AM
  25. Devan Hammack's Avatar
    Haha, I love how OP continued (for a while at least) to fight the good fight and support his original blabbering, despite facts being thrown at his face.
    That was some good stuff.
    libra89 likes this.
    11-04-2016 07:14 PM

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