1. vrans99's Avatar
    I think the long-awaited Surface Phone is closer than ever. For a long time, the Surface Phone has generated more rumors than any other device without having lost the expectation. And lately those rumors have increased, including a hint by Panos Panay.

    But, what will ensure the success of it?

    Who will want to buy a Surface mobile device (that won't be cheap) without access to the modern apps? Who will buy it to replace a desktop pc? Who will buy it to carry two mobile devices (Andromeda Windows 10 and an Android or iPhone? I think no one would buy it, even long time MS supporters like me and many others. You may think that Microsoft will rely on PWA to close the gap between the Microsoft Store and Google and Apple apps stores. But that's not going to happen, at least in the near future, even with the big support from Google. In my opinion, even the Surface and Surface Pro lines will not survive if Microsoft don't do something quick.

    And I would think that Microsoft knows that and they will not invest hundreds of millions on a product line that is destined to be DOA. So, I think that Microsoft is working on a surprise for everyone.

    In recent months, I have noticed a closer integration with its services and Windows 10 with Android apps, the development of new applications, even for non-MS services, and the Android support on Windows 10 (I can't wait to try "Your Phone" currently under development and still non functional in Windows 10 build 17677). All these make me think that Microsoft is developing (or should develop) the Andromeda device with Android OS and will be heavily loaded with their apps and services, which makes a lot of sense to me, and that would ensure that the device is widely accepted and would guarantee its success. Even their OEM partners would follow them with new devices, because it will be a mature and productive system as well as entertainment.

    I have been a strong supporter, follower and defender of Windows Mobile/Phone for long time (since my 2007
    AT&T Tilt until my Lumia 950) and just a few months ago I jumped out of the sinking ship to buy a Samsung S8+ and now I realize all I was missing before and all that I am missing now, and that makes me desire a combination of both worlds.

    I have my Samsung phone loaded with MS apps. I just installed Next on my Samsung (and I love it) and makes me feel closer to the Windows Mobile experience in regards to the notifications (Android notifications sucks). I was able to restore my WhatsApp backup from WM to Android (thanks to Nicola's WinWazzapMigrator), and also I transferred all my SMS to Android. I am still missing on Android the Anand Prakash's Converge app.

    I am missing a lot my Lumia 950 and I can say that Windows Mobile is a lot superior to Android but it lacks the apps we want and need now. It is a shame that Microsoft did not listen to Ballmer when he proposed to allow Android apps to run natively on Windows Mobile 10, but now is maybe too late for that formula.

    I will consider to buy an Andromeda device with Android OS and heavily loaded with all MS apps and with a like-WM experience.

    My Andromeda flavor:
    - Launcher10 as a launcher
    - Outlook instead of the Android Contacts, Calendar and Mail.
    - Next instead of Android Notifications.
    - Edge instead of Chrome.
    - I would be using Google Assistant until MS improves Cortana.
    - Bing instead of Google Search and Google Maps.
    - Google Play store.

    Which other apps or modifications would you love on an Andromeda with Android? What do you think about it?

    I will see a long life to Andromeda if MS uses android. What do you think? Does it makes sense to you?
    06-01-2018 01:03 AM
  2. justjun555's Avatar
    it doesn't make sense because ultimately Microsoft is a software company & they don't have any big hardware ambitions either.

    it would be idiotic & big shame for legendary software company like Microsoft to rely on someone else's os to sell their hardware.

    but in future they can utilize
    android apps in some way maybe through virtualization or cloud I don't know.
    06-01-2018 05:01 AM
  3. vrans99's Avatar
    So, do you think that Microsoft should sell Surface Phone / Andromeda with Windows 10? Would you buy it?
    For Android apps on my pc, I am using Bluestacks and that is very good, but to use it you need good hardware. Imagine Android virtualization on a mobile device. I think MS already tried that and it is not working well. Or, what do you think is going on with Windows on ARM?
    In the consumers area, besides Windows and Office, Microsoft now is investing more time and resources in Android apps.
    06-01-2018 01:17 PM
  4. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    I think MS is in a dead end in mobile business. From WP8 to W10M they been proven that branched OS sub-system can't survive. However Win10ARM shown that to use a full-scale desktop version OS into mobile device you'll need at least 1 generation ahead any other players in terms of hardware in order to provide balanced and smooth UX. Sadly MS is not a hardware company so they are at best at the same level with any other else which is a lose in the beginning....


    I don't see any good integration shown between phone API/UI and win OS and I doubt the modularized win OS(branch again?) is the final answer. I guess that's what also bothering MS as well....
    06-01-2018 01:38 PM
  5. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    In their current state, MS is going to have some serious trouble selling the Andromeda device in large volumes to consumers. I would love the device to ship with Android, but I understand the arguments against that idea. For most people, while sounding pretty cool, a tiny device running Windows 10 is just going to be impractical to use. I'm sure they might find a tiny market for it, but nothing that will make MS a mobile player. To the masses, "mobile" means "phone". It does not mean "pocket PC", and probably never will.
    a5cent likes this.
    06-01-2018 01:43 PM
  6. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    For starters, there is no "Surface Phone." The thing we have referred to as the Surface Phone since ~2014, died in a development lab long ago. It was going to run Windows 10 Mobile. But it died. It's as dead as every other dead end prototype in tech history.

    Andromeda is not a smartphone. It's an entirely new type of device, and it is intended to be one aspect of the Windows CoreOS story. It's inherently a Windows product. Just like Surface Hub, HoloLens, and Xbox.

    There's more that could be said about this. But Daniel Rubino and Zac Bowden say it better. So you should listen to what they have to say about all of this.

    https://www.windowscentral.com/windo...tral-podcst-89


    https://www.windowscentral.com/micro...we-know-so-far

    https://www.windowscentral.com/askdanwindows-47
    06-01-2018 02:34 PM
  7. gernerttl's Avatar
    This is kind of germane to this thread.

    I'm not sure if the writer understands that it is the Enterprise stuff on the back end that makes the consumer stuff on the front end work.

    Without all of that BORING and UNCOOL back end stuff like cloud servers and such, we couldn't do COOL things like play games and send Instagram messages.

    https://www.windowscentral.com/micro...campaign=email

    The fact of the matter is that Microsoft is the third most valuable company in the world behind Apple and Amazon respectively.

    What people don't realize is that Apple primary revenue (60%) is iPhone sales, and Google's primary revenue (90%) comes from advertising. Microsoft's revenue is spread evening across its entire product line.

    Microsoft doesn't NEED to have a huge consumer product line. Practically everything it does supports consumer electronic devices on the back end.

    If Andromeda gets released as an enterprise solution, It will eventually make it into the consumer market.

    Contrary to what others have said, Nadella has been doing a pretty good job at the helm. Unless Apple comes out with something truly new and novel, both Amazon and Microsoft are going to surpass it.
    nate0, Drael646464, a5cent and 6 others like this.
    06-01-2018 05:13 PM
  8. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    "Microsoft doesn't NEED to have a huge consumer product line. Practically everything it does supports consumer electronic devices on the back end."
    I agree with you, but I really want a consumer device. Ha ha

    And I also agree with what Nadella has done.
    Last edited by Scienceguy Labs; 06-02-2018 at 06:23 AM.
    06-01-2018 06:00 PM
  9. nate0's Avatar
    Contrary to what others have said, Nadella has been doing a pretty good job at the helm. Unless Apple comes out with something truly new and novel, both Amazon and Microsoft are going to surpass it.
    True. What the future of computing holds for everyone, will require what Microsoft has done in the past 3 years and going forward. Same for companies including Amazon and the like, for what they are doing. Sometimes we only see what affects us in the here and now. "My Twitter app won't work" or "Dang it! My Lumia crashed again" ;)

    As for the OPs comments/discussion topic. No. Microsoft does not build Android based platform hardware. Software for Android based devices, YES. There are enough Androids out there anyway, and for Microsoft to add to that, would be worthless to me.
    06-01-2018 09:41 PM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    Android is the fastest shrinking tablet market, and windows is the fastest growing. People don't want smartphone apps on a bigger screen they are not designed for. That's why they usually go ipad, where there is a tablet focused ecosystem.

    Specifically a folding tablet (with a crease), is not something that will ever appeal to most consumers. It's bulkier than a standard phone, likely expensive, and the main benefit is being able to have a bigger screen space on the go - but primarily for multi-tasking (one app on each screen), because of the crease.

    The other thing about this, is you actually need apps FOR DUAL SCREENS. They need to be able to a) scale b) display effectively across a seam. In that sense, nobody has the ecosystem for this - it's a new ecosystem. Yes, you'll be able to display across the seam (ie Netflix, youtube), but the touch or stylus input will not work correctly across the seam - so you cannot have UI features on the seam.

    This is with zero doubt aimed initialy at mobile productivity - enterprise users and productivity applications on the go. The sort of people who want to slip something out, do some productivity, put it back - the market for whole laptops are too big.

    Androids ecosystem doesn't mean anything to that market. It's essentially a digital notebook.

    Eventually of course in 10+ years, when graphene becomes cheaper to manufacture, seamless folding devices will come out, and eventually they will be cheap enough for consumers. Then they will be for everybody.

    When that day comes, those with viable hybrid OSes (likely just apple and MSFT) - OSes that scale to context and input, will be the only things to buy, and no-one will be interested in candybars.

    By then PWA will be all there is in basic non-demanding apps (your snapchats and facebooks), and ecosystem will mean very little apart from the power apps - the demanding ones (which mobile OSes have very little of anyway, apart from games).

    So you see, it matters not at all whether andromeda sells or not. It's an "alpha", like the HoloLens is. A device that enterprise uses, that enables MSFT to build out the OS and the hardware specific ecosystem. Nor is the app ecosystem very important to either the alpha market (creatives, mobile productivity) or for the eventual market (because 99% of androids entire ecosystem will be replaced by PWA)
    Last edited by Drael646464; 06-02-2018 at 05:18 AM.
    Vittorio Vaselli likes this.
    06-02-2018 12:59 AM
  11. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    The OP makes no sense. Why would Microsoft prop up the Google OS and cloud? It makes no sense.

    Rather than thinking of Andromeda as a phone think of it as a tablet that can fold and will also make phone calls.
    a5cent and fdruid like this.
    06-02-2018 08:38 AM
  12. DavidBS1989's Avatar
    Here's the answer.

    Andromeda is not a smartphone. It's an entirely new type of device, and it is intended to be one aspect of the Windows CoreOS story. It's inherently a Windows product. Just like Surface Hub, HoloLens, and Xbox.

    There's more that could be said about this. But Daniel Rubino and Zac Bowden say it better. So you should listen to what they have to say about all of this.

    https://www.windowscentral.com/windo...tral-podcst-89


    https://www.windowscentral.com/micro...we-know-so-far

    https://www.windowscentral.com/askdanwindows-47
    The OP has made this thread without taking info previously. There are lot of things that we don't know of this new device, but It's known that will be a Microsoft device, with Microsoft OS.


    And, of course, in my particular opinion, the best idea is get it running with Windows and not with Android!
    Indistinguishable likes this.
    06-02-2018 09:31 AM
  13. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    I agree that it makes little sense to have MS load a device with Android. That is that much information and use going to a competitor. It would make the same amount of sense if Windows started building PCs, and putting MacOS on them.
    Laura Knotek and fdruid like this.
    06-02-2018 10:30 AM
  14. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I agree that it makes little sense to have MS load a device with Android. That is that much information and use going to a competitor. It would make the same amount of sense if Windows started building PCs, and putting MacOS on them.
    Or vice versa. I think the only reason Mac sales have increased in the past decade is the ability to dual boot with Windows. MacOS has not gained any significant features other than Handoff and a couple other iPhone-related items to warrant doubling market share. It's basically the same OS from 2003 when 10.3 Panther was released.
    Laura Knotek and a5cent like this.
    06-03-2018 01:36 PM
  15. DavidBS1989's Avatar
    Or vice versa. I think the only reason Mac sales have increased in the past decade is the ability to dual boot with Windows. MacOS has not gained any significant features other than Handoff and a couple other iPhone-related items to warrant doubling market share. It's basically the same OS from 2003 when 10.3 Panther was released.
    But, is not the same. Could be a "dual OS" device, OK, let's go to wonder a smartphone with both OS. That won't increasse then the MS market, so why MS would do it?

    And, developing a device with just Android OS will mean that MS will be developing hardware to his competence. No, that has not sense. MS needs to get market, not to lose it.
    06-04-2018 08:45 AM
  16. fatclue_98's Avatar
    But, is not the same. Could be a "dual OS" device, OK, let's go to wonder a smartphone with both OS. That won't increasse then the MS market, so why MS would do it?

    And, developing a device with just Android OS will mean that MS will be developing hardware to his competence. No, that has not sense. MS needs to get market, not to lose it.
    You're reading my post out of context. I was replying to another post.
    06-04-2018 09:42 AM
  17. Drael646464's Avatar
    Or vice versa. I think the only reason Mac sales have increased in the past decade is the ability to dual boot with Windows. MacOS has not gained any significant features other than Handoff and a couple other iPhone-related items to warrant doubling market share. It's basically the same OS from 2003 when 10.3 Panther was released.
    Yeah IDK if that's true. They switched to intel when they were about to go bust. And back then, perhaps it helped. Certainly kept their costs down, and decreased incompatibility which was the actual goal (less hardware expenses, less mac models).

    To me it seems more like apples current desktop marketshare is entirely driven by it's laptops. Because laptops in general are a growing market, and other players were late to the premium market.

    But like all growth based on branding, that'll only last as long as the market grows. When it saturates, people will go back to buying cheaper midteir laptops (apart from gamers).

    You're right they don't give OSX much move, and iOS a lot of it, but I am not convinced that either strategy will save them future downsizing. In both instances they are riding adoption waves. And both will run out. They have some wow ideas in the works, and I think that's were both of their loves goes, because I think like MSFT they are smart enough to know that tech gravy trains are temporary, and you always need eyes on the horizon.
    06-04-2018 11:49 AM
  18. tsax6010's Avatar
    Frak no
    06-08-2018 09:48 AM
  19. Gunbust3r's Avatar
    Android is the only choice. If I roll up to a parking meter that I need an app to pay on it's going to be on Android and not whatever Microsoft's flavor of the week store framework they are trying to relaunch for the 47th time.
    06-08-2018 09:55 AM
  20. pallentx's Avatar
    There is no point. The only reason MS should ever make a phone-ish device would be if it advances Windows as mobile platform. Let Google find ways to promote Android as a mobile platform. Why should MS help them? They can make their apps an services available on Android (and iOS), but there's no point working to strengthen Android's position - especially in an "Andromeda" type device, which could actually give Google a foothold into laptop/desktop territory if its done really well.
    fdruid likes this.
    06-08-2018 09:59 AM
  21. pallentx's Avatar
    Android is the only choice. If I roll up to a parking meter that I need an app to pay on it's going to be on Android and not whatever Microsoft's flavor of the week store framework they are trying to relaunch for the 47th time.
    For now, yes. If Google's dream of progressive web apps comes about, something like a parking app could easily be available for a Windows device like any other platform as a PWA.

    We aren't there yet obviously, which is probably why there is no "Andromeda" device for sale, and wont be for a while, if ever.
    06-08-2018 10:01 AM
  22. Ben Triplett1's Avatar
    MS should use Android OS on Andromeda if they don't want me to buy one. Otherwise Windows all the way. Why would anyone waste money on an Android tablet type device, they are horrible and useless.
    06-08-2018 10:02 AM
  23. anon(9645112)'s Avatar
    If Andromeda or Surface Phone can change the way people use and think of computers, Android will be a thing of past.
    DavidBS1989 likes this.
    06-08-2018 10:03 AM
  24. Mitchell Segal's Avatar
    Is this a Windows or Android site? I never had the opportunity to use a Windows phone but quite frankly I am disappointed the Microsoft abandoned the platform just as Windows 10 was gaining traction. To suggest that Andromeda be Android is absurd.
    DavidBS1989 likes this.
    06-08-2018 10:03 AM
  25. DRDiver's Avatar
    THERE IS NO SURFACE PHONE. You can "long await" all you want, it's not going to happen. And whatever folding Frankenstein they come up with, it will be a niche product. As for putting Android on it, what would be the point for Microsoft? There are allegedly a number of Android-based folding things coming out. For Microsoft to actually make ANY go of it against already-popular Android OEMs, they would actually have to get SERIOUS about making their apps/services much more integrated and full-featured on Android. EVERYTHING they have on Android is hobbled compared to their Windows phone or Windows PC/tablet counterparts. You almost can't even call them lipstick on a pig. The Microsoft experience on Android is weak at best, so if they would even THINK of producing their own Android device, whatever the hardware, they'd have to suddenly be as baked into it as Samsung is. And that ain't gonna happen.
    Long Xuyen likes this.
    06-08-2018 10:08 AM
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