09-11-2015 06:17 AM
44 12
tools
  1. Tsang Fai's Avatar
    I switched from iPad to Surface Pro (SP1 and currently SP3) two years ago. Certainly I know how wonderful Surface is and I am sure I will never go back to iPad. To me, iPad is nothing more than a toy.

    As more and more rumors on iPad Pro comes out, it seems that Apple will release that bigger iPad almost the same time as SP4 (October).

    From the points of view of Windows tablet users, of course iPad Pro is far behind Surface in terms of functionalities (lack of productivity apps, lack of mouse support despite stylus support, unable to run desktop software, very limited multi-tasking, no USB, etc).

    But for average users, they may think a larger screen + stylus support is a big plus for iPad Pro.

    In fact, many people still have not tried Surface or other Windows tablets - they don't know the real power and capabilities of Surface. iPad Pro seems to be a natural choice for more productivity work.

    And don't forget Apple is well-known for its marketing magic. I am sure they will advertise iPad Pro as the "perfect device for work and play", "reinventing tablets", "most wonderful writing experience", ...

    Obviously the iPad Pro is designed as a major competitor for Surface/Surface Pro. I think the impact of iPadPro on Surface (and Windows tablets in general) should not be under-estimated. And I am curious how Microsoft will react to such disruption on its Surface market, which it has established quite well since the success of Surface Pro 3 and Surface 3.
    Laura Knotek and ja206 like this.
    08-21-2015 11:49 AM
  2. final_fantasy781's Avatar
    I wouldn't worry about the iPad pro OR any other iPad versus the surface pro. Like you said, the iPad will only get recognition as a toy. It will never be used as a laptop device.
    08-21-2015 12:01 PM
  3. theefman's Avatar
    Doubt anything will change. The SP3's success has been with enterprises and power users, consumers to a lesser extent which is the area the ipad is most successful. A bigger ipad wont make a huge difference to people who aren't dazzled by apple marketing and actually need the functionality of Windows but may still have appeal to some businesses. For everyone else, I agree it will be seen and reviewed as the best tablet ever. Not a lot anyone can do about that.
    08-21-2015 12:02 PM
  4. rhapdog's Avatar
    Obviously the iPad Pro is designed as a major competitor for Surface/Surface Pro. I think the impact of iPadPro on Surface (and Windows tablets in general) should not be under-estimated. And I am curious how Microsoft will react to such disruption on its Surface market, which it has established quite well since the success of Surface Pro 3 and Surface 3.
    People don't buy the surface because they want a powerful tablet. They want a nice laptop with the convenience of carrying/using a tablet. They want a productive laptop experience along with productive stylus and tablet.

    A bigger iPadPro will be nothing more than a larger screen iPad. iOS is still written for phones, and the apps the iPad pro will run will be the same thing you get on the iPhone and iPad. Still can't get productive with it.

    Existing iPad users will now have a choice of size, and that's about it. It will probably be a hit with journalists and tech reviewers.

    The only reason for the iPad Pro is that iPad sales are faltering consistently. This is an attempt to boost the sales, but it doesn't address the reason for the faltering sales. People who want to get real work done are buying a Surface or a 2-in-1 with Windows. Those who don't want to get work done are using phablets in place of buying an iPad. Larger screen phones cut into iPad sales. That's why Apple has refused for so long to make a phone with a larger screen. They knew this. However, with the competition taking sales away from them for people who wanted a bigger screen on their phone, they finally had to bring it out.

    Like the Apple Watch, I believe the iPad Pro sales will be less than stellar. The Cityman coming soon will be so much more of a productivity tool than the iPad Pro could ever hope to be, it's not even a fair comparison to that, much less a Surface Pro 4.
    08-21-2015 01:15 PM
  5. xandros9's Avatar
    Really depends on what this iPad Pro packs IMO.
    08-21-2015 04:49 PM
  6. rhapdog's Avatar
    Really depends on what this iPad Pro packs IMO.
    iOS 9 is what it packs. It's just going to be a flagship iPad, which means bigger and faster, but still will do the same stuff and nothing new.

    If it could run Mac OS/X, then it could possibly be productive. Then it could attach a keyboard and mouse and be both a tablet and a laptop and be a competitor of the Surface line. But wait! Mac OS/X isn't touch optimized, because they don't believe in using touch for productivity on the desktop! That's okay, I'm sure they can go back to the drawing board and rework OS/X the way Microsoft did Windows so that it can work across phones, tablets, and laptops/desktops. Oh, wait, too late for that. No time to get that done for iPad Pro.
    sahib lopez likes this.
    08-21-2015 04:56 PM
  7. xandros9's Avatar
    That's what I was thinking - if it's just iOS, they aren't exactly in the same class perhaps.
    08-21-2015 05:00 PM
  8. ytrewq's Avatar
    The iPad Pro will be a total bust. Too big and clumsy to be a good tablet, but too small and limited to be a good laptop. It's like building a device that is a refrigerator and a toaster all in one. Sure, you could do it, but why? It's sure to be a disaster.
    08-21-2015 07:46 PM
  9. xandros9's Avatar
    well then again the iPad was similarly received.

    The Surface was this metaphorical combo fridge and toaster. An iPad Pro could very well be an extra large toaster. But details are too scarce AFAIK.
    rhapdog and Laura Knotek like this.
    08-21-2015 08:05 PM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Those who have bought into the Apple ecosystem will go for the larger iPad. I believe the iPad Pro will cannibalize sales of iPads more than Surface Pro or even the Surface 3. Bottom line is that iOS and Android are still mobile OSes and can't compete with x86-based Windows devices. I've read reports of a Samsung tablet with an 18" display coming soon. I imagine that'll be marketed to the Mr. Magoos of the world.
    08-23-2015 08:20 PM
  11. rhapdog's Avatar
    I've read reports of a Samsung tablet with an 18" display coming soon. I imagine that'll be marketed to the Mr. Magoos of the world.
    Great for large print e-books. ;)
    raycpl and Laura Knotek like this.
    08-23-2015 09:35 PM
  12. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    iOS 9 is what it packs. It's just going to be a flagship iPad, which means bigger and faster, but still will do the same stuff and nothing new.
    Unless you work for Apple you have no idea. In the past, Apple has reserved announcing features for an upcoming version of iOS until the device that uses those features has been announced. It would be foolish to announce capabilities of iOS 9 without announcing hardware that uses it. That would go counter-mission. That is something I would expect from Microsoft but not Apple.

    If the iPad Pro is to be released (it is still a mythical creature), it is possible that it might include support for an active stylus (hardware) that will have support within iOS 9 (software/OS).

    We don't know if it is going to be "a flagship iPad". We don't know if it will be significantly larger, slightly larger, or the same size as existing 9.7" iPad (but with an even higher resolution/PPI).


    If it could run Mac OS/X, then it could possibly be productive. Then it could attach a keyboard and mouse and be both a tablet and a laptop and be a competitor of the Surface line. But wait! Mac OS/X isn't touch optimized, because they don't believe in using touch for productivity on the desktop! That's okay, I'm sure they can go back to the drawing board and rework OS/X the way Microsoft did Windows so that it can work across phones, tablets, and laptops/desktops. Oh, wait, too late for that. No time to get that done for iPad Pro.
    Anyone who has been paying attention would see that Apple has been spending the last few years converging iOS and OSX UI's. For example: Continuity in iOS is setting the stage for a future device that can run both OSX and iOS... Tablet detached from a keyboard, and it runs iOS and touch. Attach it to a keyboard, and Continuity allows it to switch to OSX and work as an ultrabook.

    Microsoft took a bold step with Windows 8. They were overly aggressive in supporting touchscreens before there was a significant amount of Windows-based touchscreen devices in the market. They have been trying to recover ever since. 8.1 was a step toward that balance. Windows 10 appears to be an over-correction toward desktop usage at the expense of touch usage. The elimination of the Charms Bar was one such over-correction. The hybrid start menu of Win 10 is goofy.

    Windows 10 desktop is not "touch optimized". There is more to optimizing a UI for touch than magnifying the UI elements.

    But don't worry. Apple fans are out of touch (no pun intended) as many of them want Apple to produce an iPad that runs OSX.

    The Surface (the entire line, not just the Pro but RT as well) is world-class hardware. As an ultrabook, it is outstanding. As a tablet... meh (primarily due to the lack of availability of touch-optimized Modern UI apps).

    Microsoft was smart to get in front of converged devices... but they're still vulnerable on the mobile software side... that's the side where Apple is strong. In an ironic twist, Microsoft has helped set the stage for an iPad Pro that can be of benefit in the Enterprise by their releasing a touch-optimized MS Office for iPad.

    None of us know for sure... but it will certainly be interesting.
    MobileVortex likes this.
    08-24-2015 05:01 PM
  13. colinkiama's Avatar
    I switched from iPad to Surface Pro (SP1 and currently SP3) two years ago. Certainly I know how wonderful Surface is and I am sure I will never go back to iPad. To me, iPad is nothing more than a toy.

    As more and more rumors on iPad Pro comes out, it seems that Apple will release that bigger iPad almost the same time as SP4 (October).

    From the points of view of Windows tablet users, of course iPad Pro is far behind Surface in terms of functionalities (lack of productivity apps, lack of mouse support despite stylus support, unable to run desktop software, very limited multi-tasking, no USB, etc).

    But for average users, they may think a larger screen + stylus support is a big plus for iPad Pro.

    In fact, many people still have not tried Surface or other Windows tablets - they don't know the real power and capabilities of Surface. iPad Pro seems to be a natural choice for more productivity work.

    And don't forget Apple is well-known for its marketing magic. I am sure they will advertise iPad Pro as the "perfect device for work and play", "reinventing tablets", "most wonderful writing experience", ...

    Obviously the iPad Pro is designed as a major competitor for Surface/Surface Pro. I think the impact of iPadPro on Surface (and Windows tablets in general) should not be under-estimated. And I am curious how Microsoft will react to such disruption on its Surface market, which it has established quite well since the success of Surface Pro 3 and Surface 3.
    Despite how much better the surface is, the iPad Pro will be a problem because it's Apple. The Brand Name alone causes people to buy and love it.
    08-24-2015 05:36 PM
  14. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    iOS 9 is what it packs. It's just going to be a flagship iPad, which means bigger and faster, but still will do the same stuff and nothing new.

    If it could run Mac OS/X, then it could possibly be productive. Then it could attach a keyboard and mouse and be both a tablet and a laptop and be a competitor of the Surface line. But wait! Mac OS/X isn't touch optimized, because they don't believe in using touch for productivity on the desktop! That's okay, I'm sure they can go back to the drawing board and rework OS/X the way Microsoft did Windows so that it can work across phones, tablets, and laptops/desktops. Oh, wait, too late for that. No time to get that done for iPad Pro.
    Also, OS X is optimized as well as Ubisoft games... (Badly) so no way it's running well on anything like an iPad. Unless Apple engineers have been visited by aliens, which I doubt.
    rhapdog likes this.
    08-24-2015 06:01 PM
  15. rhapdog's Avatar
    DISCLAIMER: I have been under the influence of medications for an illness that has had me rather sick for a number of days. My tone doesn't always come out just right at times, and if I seem a bit terse, I apologize in advance. At the moment, I am more interested in getting the facts out than trying to find ways to be sweet about it. Please bear with me on it.

    Unless you work for Apple you have no idea.
    Everyone has the idea that the iPad Pro will run iOS, because a touch screen device cannot run OS X, as OS X doesn't handle touch screen devices. You don't have to work for Apple to know that.

    As far as the features go for iOS 9, just do some quick searches online. The Beta version has been being tested, and features have been revealed regularly for this OS. Why you think no one can know what it's going to be able to do, well, I have no idea on that one. A lot of people know. A lot of people are beta testers for it.

    Anyone who has been paying attention would see that Apple has been spending the last few years converging iOS and OSX UI's. For example: Continuity in iOS is setting the stage for a future device that can run both OSX and iOS... Tablet detached from a keyboard, and it runs iOS and touch. Attach it to a keyboard, and Continuity allows it to switch to OSX and work as an ultrabook.
    Hahaha ha ha! Oh, wait... you're serious? (You see what I mean? It's the meds talking, really. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it.)

    Apple is making the UI's look alike, but they are not going to have the same core or be anywhere near the same in functionality. If it were, it would either cripple the power of the Mac or it would cripple the app availability of the iPad, which they would have a very hard time recovering from. You're talking about a dual-boot device here at worst, which would mean having to save your work and reboot under the other OS. At best, you're talking about emulation, which is going to cause performance to suffer.

    Besides, who in their right mind would want to have to detach the keyboard in order to get their iOS app to run? Oh, yes, Apple fans who will do whatever they are told to do. (Man, those meds are crazy mean. Sorry again.)

    The problem here is that OS X does not allow for touch screen devices, period. While iOS is designed to be entirely touch based and doesn't work well with keyboard/mouse. It can work with a keyboard, but only with those apps that will support it. Comparing this to what the surface does with Windows 10 Continuum is a real joke. Probably why I laughed, because I seriously thought you were joking for a moment. (Darn meds.)

    Despite how much better the surface is, the iPad Pro will be a problem because it's Apple. The Brand Name alone causes people to buy and love it.
    Exactly. And some of those people who currently love it and buy it will buy this. People who buy Surface won't give a rip about the iPad Pro, because they spent the big bucks on the Surface (substantially more than an iPad or even iPad Pro) in order to get a tablet that can replace a laptop and be productive. Sure, slap Microsoft Office on an iPad and it will satisfy those who currently have iPads, because it's already available for that. Those that do minimal work with an iPad will be pleased with the improved productivity of the new office, but that's about it.

    The topic is not about is the iPad Pro going to be great, but will it harm the Surface sales. I say no for the reasons stated.
    08-24-2015 06:06 PM
  16. floppyedonkey's Avatar
    iOS 9 is what it packs. It's just going to be a flagship iPad, which means bigger and faster, but still will do the same stuff and nothing new.

    If it could run Mac OS/X, then it could possibly be productive. Then it could attach a keyboard and mouse and be both a tablet and a laptop and be a competitor of the Surface line. But wait! Mac OS/X isn't touch optimized, because they don't believe in using touch for productivity on the desktop! That's okay, I'm sure they can go back to the drawing board and rework OS/X the way Microsoft did Windows so that it can work across phones, tablets, and laptops/desktops. Oh, wait, too late for that. No time to get that done for iPad Pro.
    You mean Apple could steal a whole new operating system to make touch work. Like they did with OSX in the first place, I'm pretty sure they have no idea how to open up the guts of OSX and optimize it for touch. haha
    08-24-2015 08:20 PM
  17. xandros9's Avatar
    You mean Apple could steal a whole new operating system to make touch work. Like they did with OSX in the first place, I'm pretty sure they have no idea how to open up the guts of OSX and optimize it for touch. haha
    just because Apple products are simple doesn't mean the people behind them are you know
    libra89, rhapdog and WillysJeepMan like this.
    08-24-2015 08:36 PM
  18. Tsang Fai's Avatar
    The topic is not about is the iPad Pro going to be great, but will it harm the Surface sales. I say no for the reasons stated.
    Agree to all the points you mentioned except that I think iPad Pro will indeed affect the sales of Surface devices. As you stated, Surface users will continue to use Surface, while iPad users will likely consider iPad Pro for more productivity work. How about those neutral users (users who have not owned Surface/iPad before)? My guess is, they will tend to consider iPadPro, just because of the big brand name effect. As a true supporter of Surface, I don't want that to happen of course.

    The positive thing is that, iPad Pro has further proved that Surface is so brilliant and cool :P
    calfee20 and rhapdog like this.
    08-25-2015 08:58 AM
  19. JamesDax's Avatar
    No!
    rhapdog likes this.
    08-25-2015 09:04 AM
  20. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    rhapdog, hope you are feeling better soon. I'll have to remember that "the meds made me say it" thing next time I feel like being rude to people. :)
    rhapdog likes this.
    08-25-2015 09:22 AM
  21. Charles Brown8's Avatar
    rhap if you would be so kind as to ship some of those "meds" to my home.. Hehe...
    rhapdog likes this.
    08-25-2015 09:37 AM
  22. rhapdog's Avatar
    rhap if you would be so kind as to ship some of those "meds" to my home.. Hehe...
    You don't want them. Trust me. This morning I went to get a carton of eggs out to make an omelet from 2 of them. I dropped the carton before I got to the counter, and still don't remember letting go of the carton. I don't know what happened, other than we ended up having them scrambled, and a lot more eggs were scrambled than I had planned on cooking. At least the carton stayed closed, so the mess was easily transferred to a pan for cooking. ;)

    Feeling a little better today.

    Okay, one last round with this. I know some of you think iPad Pro will hurt Surface sales. While I think it will hurt Windows Tablet sales over all, I don't think it will hurt Surface, as people see the Surface as more of a competitor with a MacBook than an iPad. It's really more of an ultralight 2-in-1, and people who just want a tablet shop for tablets. People wanting a Surface are ones that need a small PC, not a tablet. Tablet convenience with it is nice and all, and it's really great for students who need a laptop, but want a lighter backpack and more room for books. Professionals also look to the surface to get things done.

    If someone is considering a tablet, they want something lightweight with minimal computer capabilities, and something inexpensive. People who want the Surface aren't looking for a tablet, they are looking for a thin, lightweight PC. Sure, there are a few tablet shoppers that get the surface, but because they get converted by realizing they can do more than they thought possible.
    Tsang Fai likes this.
    08-25-2015 10:02 AM
  23. illegaloperation's Avatar
    I doubt that it will have much effect on sales of the Surface.

    The people who is going to buy the Surface usually have their minds set.

    There probably aren't too many grandma(s) walking into BestBuy with $800+, not knowing what to buy, and walking out with a Surface Pro 3 anyhow.

    If anything, the "iPad Pro" will affect the sales of the Samsung Galaxy Note tablets.
    rhapdog and xandros9 like this.
    08-27-2015 09:16 PM
  24. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I doubt that it will have much effect on sales of the Surface.

    The people who is going to buy the Surface usually have their minds set.
    You would be surprised at how many iPad owners have "looked over the fence" at the Surface and waiting to see what if anything Apple does... and if Apple doesn't, they're ready to make the move to a Surface.

    With every iteration of the Surface, Microsoft is erasing the history of their botched Surface launch. I push my Surface 2 to the limits and those who see what I'm doing with it are impressed... and when I tell them that the x86-based Surface devices can do far more, it gets their attention.


    There probably aren't too many grandma(s) walking into BestBuy with $800+, not knowing what to buy, and walking out with a Surface Pro 3 anyhow.

    If anything, the "iPad Pro" will affect the sales of the Samsung Galaxy Note tablets.
    I agree.
    09-03-2015 07:48 PM
  25. Ruslan Zakharov's Avatar
    No, Windows more better than iOs.
    09-08-2015 02:43 AM
44 12

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