Microsoft says they're in it for the (very) long haul

Big Supes

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I'd say Microsoft has been very busy. Between Windows 8, Tango, Apollo, Xbox III, and everything else they're working on, this is the busiest I've seen Microsoft in a while. I know everyone wants MS to just slap down a bunch of code and call it a day, but it's never that simple.

This!

People are quick to insist MS get their products out within a quick turnaround, yet the same people would take it personally when the rush product breaks down on them.

MS have clearly learned from their past mistakes that you can't just rush stuff out there, if you're to be taken seriously.
 

Speebs

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This!

People are quick to insist MS get their products out within a quick turnaround, yet the same people would take it personally when the rush product breaks down on them.

MS have clearly learned from their past mistakes that you can't just rush stuff out there, if you're to be taken seriously.

Sometimes this forum makes me want to facepalm myself to death.

MS has no choice but to pick up the pace. They are YEARS behind their competition and they need to catch up fast, but without rushing. That means allotting more resources. They have the advantage of being able to learn from their competition, so there shouldn't be as many mistakes, and they should already know exactly what kinds of features people will find useful.

In short: Yes, I want this particular MS product turned around quickly, because 1) MS has a lot to gain, 2) I think WP has great potential to be the best OS out there for years to come, and 3) MS definitely has the resources to do this quickly without releasing a buggy product. I have no evidence that they're really trying to make WP a viable alternative.
 

selfcreation

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There are features missing that simply should not be, and take WP out of the running as the best OS. For example (and these are just the things bothering me today):

Cannot forward an email with attachments (attachments are stripped)
Cannot save attachments locally (at least not PDFs)
Custom ringtones are difficult
No option to enable Wifi during sleep (forced to use slow data connection, and if you don't have a data connection, you're out of luck)
No ringer profiles (toast notifications are constantly waking me up at night - unacceptable)
No built-in google chat - this is just lame
No ability to pull up an email address using a nickname (for example if I have "Robert Smith" in my address book and have the nickname set to "Bob," I should be able to type "Bob" and have it suggest his contact information for calls/texts/emails
"Month" view in calendar is not useful because you can't see individual appointments without clicking on the date
Lock screen barely shows any info and doesn't show third-party notifications
Toasts are simply lost once they disappear from the screen (wtf?)
Cannot go "back" in IE (um... why)
Screen unlock passcode MUST be 4 numbers (why can't it be more complex?)


there are more, I just can't think of them off the top of my head.

1. Cannot forward an email with attachments (attachments are stripped) Yes you can! just did it.

2. Cannot save attachments locally (at least not PDFs): Thats because its Auto save! lol (open adopt reader its waiting for you)

3.enable WIFi during sleep? what you mean here? like a physical button?

4. you can change the Ring profile by lowering volume/hitting vibrate! mine dont wake me up!

5. No built-in google chat - this is just lame : LOL thats cause its not a google phone! we have MSN! next thing you know people complain about not having BBM on WP.

6: my address book and have the nickname set to "Bob," I should be able to type "Bob" and have it suggest his contact information for calls/texts/emails: or you could open the people HUb (the way MS designed it ) type the letter B and you have it!

7. Toasts are simply lost once they disappear from the screen (wtf?) like when you get a txt you cant tell some one sent you a text? did you try looking at the live tiles?

8: Lock screen barely shows any info and doesn't show third-party notifications: homebrew coming that will give more info :)

9. im not sure what ever one means with cannot go back in IE, i can go back to previous page or others app no problem.

10: screen lock , meh personal preference. Iphone doesn't ether.


11: Custom ringtones are difficult?? did you try downloading an app that allow you to make ring tones in 5sec flat! lol check out my help thread in the CUSTOMIZING YOUR WP section


basically the only feature I see on that list that are missing is ether because you dint know it could do it . or you want Google products on MS devices. OR personal preference...

i would NOT call that YEARS BEHIND!! so i re-write my previous statement.

WP is not missing that many features!.
 
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sentimentGX4

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I think Microsoft is overestimating the time it has left if it thinks it can just wait it out. The company does not have 2 years. Technology isn't going to wait for it and it's only a matter of time before Android attacks PCs. The new crop of smartphones Tegra 3 smartphones are already as fast as a lot of general use computers and tablets are becoming laptops with detachable keyboards. If Windows OS (the PC version) dies, Microsoft is just dead.

Speebs said:
No option to enable Wifi during sleep (forced to use slow data connection, and if you don't have a data connection, you're out of luck)
Wifi is enabled during sleep by default! (I know this because my email updates itself during sleep and I don't have a data plan.) Turn off Battery Saver and leave Wifi "On" in Settings. Don't know why you would think that Wifi is ever turned off because it is clearly left on.

Cannot go "back" in IE (um... why)
The back button is right on your phone! It's huge! Can you not see it? You can also go back by selection "Recent" from the options. I'm bothered by the inability to go forward, actually.

Se1fcr3ation is right. Most of your list of "missing" WP functions are from the result of your unfamiliarity of the OS.
 
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Big Supes

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"Years behind the competition" is a massive reach.

I can only speak for myself, but it doesn't feel all that long ago since we received the Mango update... and now Windows Phone 8 is around the corner, which is going to bring the hardware and seriously tighten up the ecosystem.

I don't feel hard done-by at all. MS are in this for the long haul. Windows Phone 8 is timed to be released around the same time as Windows 8. It doesn't get any better than that. Think - Nokia Apollo handsets running multi cores, high screen res, and 40+ MP cameras that'll sync across Windows/Xbox Live services via the cloud and share compatibility with apps downloaded via a PC or tablet. I don't know about anyone, but I'm stoked for what's on the horizon.
 

Reflexx

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Ah. Enthusiasts are so impatient.

We want it all. And when we finally will end up getting it all, we'll want more.

We often look past the things that we have that others don't, and instead focus on what others have that we don't.

But back on subject...

When he said the battle may be for decades, I don't think he was talking about a battle for relevancy. He meant that there will be no clear "winner" for perhaps decades. He expects WP to be up there competing hard and being a contender. But the competition is fierce, and neither Apple nor Android will be knocked out any time soon.
 

E_man#CB

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3.enable WIFi during sleep? what you mean here? like a physical button?

He means not having WiFi go to sleep when the phone does. My Focus S seems to have that issue as well, but it's not consistent.

4. you can change the Ring profile by lowering volume/hitting vibrate! mine dont wake me up!

I think one of us is misinterpereting what he said. I took it to mean separate Ringer and Notification volumes. Something that is incredibly useful.

5. No built-in google chat - this is just lame : LOL thats cause its not a google phone! we have MSN! next thing you know people complain about not having BBM on WP.

He's coming from the direction of, MS touts it's messaging experience, and neglects an extremely popular message client. You use BBM as an example, which is a terrible argument. BBM is a closed system. Google Talk is something any chat client can plug into. MS never bought Facebook that I remember, but you can use facebook chat...

6: my address book and have the nickname set to "Bob," I should be able to type "Bob" and have it suggest his contact information for calls/texts/emails: or you could open the people HUb (the way MS designed it ) type the letter B and you have it!

If that's what Microsoft wants, that's unintuitive and inconsistent. If that's how they wanted you to do it, they wouldn't have a way to start a new message thread in the messaging app.

7. Toasts are simply lost once they disappear from the screen (wtf?) like when you get a txt you cant tell some one sent you a text? did you try looking at the live tiles?

That is a terrible argument. WP7 notifications are as bad as iOS 4 notifications, if less intrusive. They pop up, and go away. Never to be seen again, except a number on a live tile that you may or may not have on your screen (such as the red dot in iOS). Screen space is precious, only 8 apps fit on your main page without scrolling. They need a persistent notification center in my opinion. You would be free to not use it, but I carry around a device from all three platforms, and this is my #1 gripe about WP7.

8: Lock screen barely shows any info and doesn't show third-party notifications: homebrew coming that will give more info :)

Yay, the few people that go for that will be happy. Homebrew/Jailbreak/Root solutions are weak things to rely on at best. With Windows Phone, it's worse since it's even harder to fully unlock these phones compared to any major platform.

10: screen lock , meh personal preference. Iphone doesn't ether.

Have you used an iPhone recently?

lock-screen-notifications-240408.png


Notifications with a quick launch into the app that sent them. Android does this too, but it's in a pulldown.

11: Custom ringtones are difficult?? did you try downloading an app that allow you to make ring tones in 5sec flat! lol check out my help thread in the CUSTOMIZING YOUR WP section

Again, I don't really buy into "there's an app to fix that" argument. Most people won't know they are there.

A lot of these are features that WP7 is lacking, and people want. I'd have a few of my own as well.

1) Why is there 30 levels of volume to choose from? I cannot tell the difference between 24 and 23. 1-20, 1-15, 1-10 even would be better.

2) Make live tiles a little more useful. I love not having to go into an app to see a bit of information, but for some apps, that's actually faster than sitting staring at the home screen waiting for it to flip. Let there be a gesture (double tap?) that flips the tile over right then.

3) Better background services. They aren't up to par. For example, skype can't work when not in app. That's not helpful.

4) Make the "pull from top" more consistent. I hate having to go to my home screen to see the time/battery level/signal strength when in an app that doesn't allow for a pull down gesture.

5) Work on making the camera not launch in the pocket. I take so many pocket pictures, and my pants are not tight. Should not be hard with the proximity sensor.

6) Keep going after those developers. They have a lot of the major apps, but more than a few don't hold a candle to the versions on the big OS's. Other's aren't there at all. My mom's a normal average consumer. She almost took her Focus Flash back because she was missing out on apps that others around her have. She still may.

7) While on the topic of courting third parties, trying to convince accessory makers to get their act together (and making USB accessory access a real thing) would be appreciated.

8) Better Xbox integration. It's alright, but why can't I control my Xbox from my phone? I hate the Xbox on screen keyboard, why can't my phone do that. Why can't my Xbox act in a similar fashion as the apple TV, letting me send my phone screen to the big screen. This could be where WP7 shines, and I see them falling short here.

9) Backup and restore apps, app data, and system data to Zune.

I'm sure I can think of more. WP7.5 is an awesome platform, don't get me wrong. I could make great lists of features the two big platforms are missing as well. But WP7 is a bit farther behind the curve I think. If I were microsoft, this wouldn't have been the time to make a super special effort catering the low end, when Gen 1 phones would do a great job at filling in the low end gap.
 

fogel35

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If I were microsoft, this wouldn't have been the time to make a super special effort catering the low end, when Gen 1 phones would do a great job at filling in the low end gap

You nailed it right there. This isn't the time to go small but go big.
 

Winterfang

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Sounds like Windows Phone is doing worse than anything they could imagine.

GREAT! maybe that means they can get their arses in gear. =D
 

scottcraft

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I'm sure I can think of more. WP7.5 is an awesome platform, don't get me wrong. I could make great lists of features the two big platforms are missing as well. But WP7 is a bit farther behind the curve I think. If I were microsoft, this wouldn't have been the time to make a super special effort catering the low end, when Gen 1 phones would do a great job at filling in the low end gap.

Well said! I enjoy using WP (except when my keyboard is disappearing), but to act like it doesn't need improvement is crazy. Mango brought some really nice new stuff, hoping Apollo does the same.
 

snowmutt

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Usually, when there is a lot of complaints and compliments about something, the truth is right in the middle. Most of the arguments about missing features are truly just features that smartphone users have gotten used to having on one type of device and then they find they are missing when they move to another type of device. Cruise the Android forums or go to more general sites like Phone Arena or Phone Dog and you will see the same "missing features" when Android users talk about what they used to be able to do on one manufacturers Android phone and than move to another Android manufacturers phone. And those are just UI difference or screen layouts. You hear about how they could do "insert feature here" on their Motorola, and now can't do it on their new HTC or Samsung. May the Good Lord's patience be with you if you are comparing Android options to the iPhone's, or vice-verse. Believe it or not, live tiles are features that WP users would miss horribly if they left, as are some of the way the hubs are easily organized. And I am just mentioning the big stuff. Trust me, once you fall in love with an OS, or a skin on an OS, you always miss the features. WP needs more goodies, it is obvious from the sales it just hasn't hit the sweet spot yet. But most of the features missing are preferences, and no device is perfect.

However, I am in line with those of you who are tired of hearing that NEXT year is the year we get it right with Windows Phones!!! You have Nokia, a worldwide presence, and a spectacular OS right now. Why are you pumping up an update that may be 8 - 10 months from happening???? I said at the end of 2011 that if WP was not at least 10% of the market worldwide by the end of 2012, there is no none could spin it any other way other than a failure. There truly needs to be a sense of urgency from Microsoft. Sure the software for PC's, laptops, and business are your top money makers, and you do have those Tablets coming. But Mobile Phones are a near trillion dollar industry. THAT is worth fighting for. NOW.

Whew. Feel better. Thanks, gang. Rant over.
 

Big Supes

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So many features are wanted for Mango, but what is the solution? Should MS devote resources to adding these features to an OS version that'll be redundant in less than a year? Personally... considering how well Mango holds it own against the competition -despite it not jamming in every feature the competition has- I'd rather them focus on the next level - Windows Phone 8. Is the number sequence in the volume bar that important for the time being? (not pointing the finger at anyone in particular). Google chat? God's honest truth, I've only meet one person who uses it. All of my friends use MSN or Facebook chat.
 

Big Supes

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I said at the end of 2011 that if WP was not at least 10% of the market worldwide by the end of 2012, there is no none could spin it any other way other than a failure. There truly needs to be a sense of urgency from Microsoft. Sure the software for PC's, laptops, and business are your top money makers, and you do have those Tablets coming. But Mobile Phones are a near trillion dollar industry. THAT is worth fighting for. NOW.

Whew. Feel better. Thanks, gang. Rant over.

And, don't forget the console market. ;)

I'm struggling to understand your assessment based on success/failure of WP by 2012. Are you on board with those who predict the end of the world this year? The finish line is in sight? Ok, joking aside, I'm confused. :confused:
 

mattpga

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Like they keep saying, its a battle of the ecosystems now and once MS gets windows 8 out and unifies and simplifies a lot of its different 'brands' like windows live/xbox/zune i think windows phone will make a lot more sense to people. This along with more affordable handsets that the likes of nokia are bringning out will make a difference i think. Up until now there has been a serious lack of handsets, and all of them at the higher end of the market and features like xbox live (remember how xbox was ridiculed when it first came out) can bring in a younger crowd who dont want a ?30+ a month contract.
 

aubreyq

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Microsoft needs to step it up. I'm honestly regretting a bit jumping on WP so early, because now Microsoft is saying stuff like "2013 is the year of Windows Phone." They just got done saying 2012 was the year for WP!!! What's it gonna be? What happened to Nokia's "Operation: Rolling Thunder"? We're almost done with Q1 of 2012, btw.

If I were a betting man, I'd say Apollo is a complete overhaul to the OS, so much that Gen 1 devices won't be able to update. Maybe that's why Microsoft's been so quiet about WP8? Were all of us part of a "test group" for Windows Phone? I'm partly kidding about that last question ;)

*sighs* Ok, Microsoft. Just throw us a bone, would ya?
 

Big Supes

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2012 seems to be going well for Windows Phone already, IMO. The trophy cabinet is already filling up with more awards...
 

Winterfang

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I disagree Supes, Microsoft needs to be feature part with Apple. I don't understand how people can say that with Mango Microsoft is on par (and specially when they say maybe even surpassed) the other OS, when we don't even had Pandora.

Have they not have any shame? did you know that the USA Today app had their app downloaded the less by Windows Phone, even the webOS tablet surpass it by almost double margin. That's trouble right there.

We cannot compete against Apple without Apps and cannot compete against Google without Phones. Microsoft and Nokia can win all the awards they want but as of right now, Windows Phone is just impossible to recommend, that's why salesmen are not even trying.
 

scottcraft

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Why does Microsoft need to sell cheaper priced phones when every iPhone released sells by the millions? I can see having lower priced phones to capture the cheap/free market android seems to be doing so well in, but what about those that want top phones? I want a superior camera and a high resolution display. The competition sells those things right now, but no one knows when WP will have them (granted Nokia should have the camera part on the 900).

Sent from my Windows7 Phone using Board Express
 

dannejanne

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Microsoft and Nokia can win all the awards they want but as of right now, Windows Phone is just impossible to recommend, that's why salesmen are not even trying.

To each their own.

Not everyone needs the gazilion of apps etc. that Android offer or many of the apps we don't have yet. I was a hardcore Android user that flashed roms, decompiled apk's to modify graphics etc... very advanced user.

I do not miss anything at all on my "limited" Windows Phone. I do not miss Android one bit. For me it's a relief to not need to customize everything because I could. I just like it the way it is now. It's a phone and it can do everything I want and a lot more.

Exactly what is WP missing that the common user would miss so much to not be recommended a WP phone? And by common user I do not talk about us that sits on these forums. We are the minority by far.
 

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