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08-14-2014 05:04 PM
40 12
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  1. hopmedic's Avatar
    I like the live folders with one exception. With every other part of Windows Phone, if you tap something to expand it, tapping the back button will contract it. Look at the calendar since 8.1. If you tap a day (in the month view, for instance), it expands showing appointments for that day. Tapping back contracts it. In alarms, if you tap snooze time (Update 1), it expands. Tapping back contracts.

    But with Live Folders, you tap the folder to expand it, and tapping back does not contract it unless there is nothing in your back stack. I don't like the inconsistency. So I created a UserVoice topic for it...
    Live Folders Contract on Back – Feature Suggestions for Windows Phone
    Narciso Neto, a5cent and Guytronic like this.
    08-07-2014 03:39 PM
  2. wpfanboy17's Avatar
    Not sure if I understand you correctly, re-tapping does contract it back to its original state.
    08-07-2014 03:45 PM
  3. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    It only contracts/closes if there are no other apps open. If you have an app open it will go to that app. A minor issue but should be looked at.
    08-07-2014 03:50 PM
  4. hopmedic's Avatar
    That's three thing. It is inconsistent. If they're is an app in the back stack, pursuing back goes to the last stop instead of closing the folder. If there is no app in the back stack, the folder closes. There needs to be consistency.
    08-07-2014 05:01 PM
  5. Ma Rio's Avatar
    Glad to support you.
    08-07-2014 05:04 PM
  6. osars ehi's Avatar
    Here's another annoying one....when you long press on a folder you can change its size or move it around (which is normal), but when you tap the folder again (I.e when you are satisfied with the size you want), you expects it to exit that state (referring to the state when customization of tile is possible) but it opens the folder instead....that's a bit of inconsistency
    08-07-2014 05:30 PM
  7. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    It's just unfinished/unpolished at this point. The gray dividers instead of the proper accent color when using a start background is another issue.
    08-07-2014 05:47 PM
  8. hopmedic's Avatar
    Add your comments to the UserVoice!
    08-07-2014 07:16 PM
  9. vitor.rf's Avatar
    I'm not sure this is an "inconsistency" or that's unfinished/unpolished.

    Pressing back (the arrow) will go back to the last place you were, not undo what you just did.
    It's always been like this. That's why it's called "back" and not "Ctrl+z"
    08-07-2014 09:26 PM
  10. hopmedic's Avatar
    I'm not sure this is an "inconsistency" or that's unfinished/unpolished.

    Pressing back (the arrow) will go back to the last place you were, not undo what you just did.
    It's always been like this. That's why it's called "back" and not "Ctrl+z"
    Wrong. Unpolished is the colors or typeography not being right. This is inconsistent. Did you read the first post? Does the back button do the same things no matter what is in the back stack? No.

    If you expand the date on calendar and tap back, does it go back to the last place you were, or does it undo the expansion? It undoes the expansion. It doesn't close the calendar.

    If you have a messagebox, no matter what app you're in, and you tap back, it doesn't go back to where you were - it dismisses the messagebox. It doesn't go back to the last page or close the app.

    In anyplace where there is a drop-down that expands, tapping back contracts the expanded listbox. It doesn't go back to the last page.

    With Live Folders, the back button does one thing if there's an independent app in the back stack, and one thing if there's nothing in the back stack. The action is completely dependent upon something that is outside the control of the Live Folders. It is totally dependent upon your past activities, instead of being consistent.

    There is absolutely no way to argue that this is consistent behavior.
    Last edited by hopmedic; 08-08-2014 at 03:25 PM.
    Coolaaron88 and a5cent like this.
    08-08-2014 08:25 AM
  11. osars ehi's Avatar
    I like the live folders with one exception. With every other part of Windows Phone, if you tap something to expand it, tapping the back button will contract it. Look at the calendar since 8.1. If you tap a day (in the month view, for instance), it expands showing appointments for that day. Tapping back contracts it. In alarms, if you tap snooze time (Update 1), it expands. Tapping back contracts.

    But with Live Folders, you tap the folder to expand it, and tapping back does not contract it unless there is nothing in your back stack. I don't like the inconsistency. So I created a UserVoice topic for it...
    Live Folders Contract on Back – Feature Suggestions for Windows Phone
    I think you are wrong, It's not actually an inconsistent in design. By design if you press the back key on the home screen, it actually scrolls straight to the top tiles (that's if there isn't any app in the background)....and at the same time closes any opened folder. You might not notice it initially, but try placing a folder at the bottom of your home screen, open it and press the back key. You'll notice that it doesn't just close the folder but it takes you to the very top of your home screen.
    08-08-2014 04:59 PM
  12. manicottiK's Avatar
    I think you are wrong, It's not actually an inconsistent in design. By design if you press the back key on the home screen, it actually scrolls straight to the top tiles.
    [First, apologies for the crazy length of this.]

    I started to compose the same kind of message, but then I realized that both you and Homeric are right, but about different things.

    You are right that pressing Back when the back stack is empty goes to the top of the Start screen. It has done that at least since 8.0 and I think that it did as far back as 7.0.

    I think that Homeric is wrong in saying that pressing Back is supposed to un-expand controls, as it does in the week view of the Calendar app after you've tapped a day to expand it.

    Back has two functions: go to previous "place" and cancel an in-progress control. (For more on the primary function, please read the excellent Introducing the concept of Places by Peter Torr.)

    The "un-expand" idea that Homeric noted really comes from the secondary function as a way of canceling an in-progress control. It's true that the ListPicker control accepts Back as a way of canceling its popped-up state, but it does that because Back also means "Cancel". That's why message boxes can be removed by pressing Back. (Note that tapping outside of a ListPicker's popup area also closes it and that pressing Back does not close an ExpanderView like the ones used in threaded email.)

    If you accept the idea that Back means go to previous place or cancel an in-progress control display, that creates two problems. First, the Calendar behavior is wrong and second, the tile folder behavior is wrong. How so? Here's how:

    For the Calendar, Back can't mean go to previous place because the screen never goes back to a previous place. While one could consider the Day Header to be an expandable control which Back cancels while it's in progress (i.e., waiting for you to select an event in that day), tapping outside of the control does NOT close it. This means that the Back behavior in the Calendar is inconsistent with the general OS.

    For the Start screen, tile folders DO act like controls that are "in-progress" such that tapping outside of them causes them to close. (You can do this by placing one near the top or bottom and touching space not occupied by a tile -- the expanded tile folder with auto-close.) However, even though they act that way for touching, they don't from a Back button perspective.

    Given all of that, I'm really pleased to see that Microsoft finally fixed an inconsistency that has driven me crazy since 7.0. Pre-8.1U1, tapping outside of the app bar when in the mail app did nothing; post 8.1U1, it now closes the app bar like it does in every other app.

    Maybe there's hope for the company to address these consistency issues, too!

    Sent from my Surface Pro 3 using Tapatalk
    hs k, a5cent and osars ehi like this.
    08-08-2014 05:36 PM
  13. Xpider_MX's Avatar
    And how you will edit the tiles inside the folder? any better idea?

    First, on home screen a long touch change to "edit" mode, where you can move the tile, change the tile size, and in 8.1.1, create a folder. But the only way to edit the folder content is opening it on edit mode, that's why if you tap on a folder tile in edit mode, you get yhe folder content, not finish the edit mode.
    08-08-2014 09:39 PM
  14. lexus232's Avatar
    I have noticed this inconsistency as well.
    hopmedic likes this.
    08-09-2014 02:27 PM
  15. osars ehi's Avatar
    And how you will edit the tiles inside the folder? any better idea?

    First, on home screen a long touch change to "edit" mode, where you can move the tile, change the tile size, and in 8.1.1, create a folder. But the only way to edit the folder content is opening it on edit mode, that's why if you tap on a folder tile in edit mode, you get yhe folder content, not finish the edit mode.
    Nope that's not the only way. You can as well open the folder then long press on its contents to enable edit mode. Next time you should check for other possible options before you draw up your conclusions.
    08-11-2014 10:41 AM
  16. fwaits's Avatar
    Here's another annoying one....when you long press on a folder you can change its size or move it around (which is normal), but when you tap the folder again (I.e when you are satisfied with the size you want), you expects it to exit that state (referring to the state when customization of tile is possible) but it opens the folder instead....that's a bit of inconsistency
    Well this one to me makes sense. You can also resize the items INSIDE the folder, so that's why it stays in the 'modify' state when you open/close the folder tile.
    08-11-2014 12:12 PM
  17. Xpider_MX's Avatar
    Nope that's not the only way. You can as well open the folder then long press on its contents to enable edit mode. Next time you should check for other possible options before you draw up your conclusions.
    I don't explain myself. What I mean is, the way the system works with tiles (gestures) is how folders works.

    "the only way to edit the folder content is opening it on edit mode"

    And it is true, if you want to edit the folder content, you need to stay in edit mode while the folder is open.

    My post was a answer to hopmedic, the folder behavior is how tiles (in home screen) works, the folder is another tile, and it is working like all tiles works, a tap for open it, long pressing for edit the tile (size and ubication).
    08-11-2014 03:18 PM
  18. Christian Holmstedt's Avatar
    I like the live folders with one exception. With every other part of Windows Phone, if you tap something to expand it, tapping the back button will contract it. Look at the calendar since 8.1. If you tap a day (in the month view, for instance), it expands showing appointments for that day. Tapping back contracts it. In alarms, if you tap snooze time (Update 1), it expands. Tapping back contracts.

    But with Live Folders, you tap the folder to expand it, and tapping back does not contract it unless there is nothing in your back stack. I don't like the inconsistency. So I created a UserVoice topic for it...
    Live Folders Contract on Back €“ Feature Suggestions for Windows Phone
    Clicking the 'back' button closes the expanded Live Folder on the Lumia 810.
    08-11-2014 09:03 PM
  19. 4ny0n3's Avatar
    Hitting back to close the expanded folder only works when you have no apps in the background. Otherwise, hitting back will take you to the previously opened app, regardless of a folder being open or not.
    08-11-2014 09:07 PM
  20. hopmedic's Avatar
    Clicking the 'back' button closes the expanded Live Folder on the Lumia 810.
    I'll bet it doesn't if there's something in the back stack.
    a5cent likes this.
    08-11-2014 10:10 PM
  21. daemron's Avatar
    Another annoying thing with live folders is that they stay open when you lock your phone.
    08-11-2014 10:41 PM
  22. Christian Holmstedt's Avatar
    I'll bet it doesn't if there's something in the back stack.
    OK, misunderstood.
    08-12-2014 12:23 AM
  23. twint7787's Avatar
    Just wanted to also add that if you press the volume up or down, the volume bar slides down from the top. If you press the back button it collapses it. I am running 8.0 so idk if it still works that wait in 8.1, but live folders should be consistent with that UI as OP said.
    08-12-2014 11:16 PM
  24. manicottiK's Avatar
    I want to take back my earlier statement that a tile folder is like any other UI control that is simply waiting for input (and for which the Back key would close). It isn't that and I can prove it with a simple test: tap a folder, tap an icon to launch an app, back out of the app -- ta-dah, the folder is still open, showing that its "openness" wasn't a transient state (or that there are two bugs).

    It seems reasonably clear (or at least consistent) that Microsoft doesn't see an open folder as being a control in a transient UI state. If it did, the folder would have to close when making a choice (to complete the in-progress operation)or pressing the Back key (to cancel the in-progress operation). Given that is behaves in a non-transient manner when completing the action (i.e., that the folder remains open even after a choice is made), the Back key shouldn't close it either.

    I suspect that this debate is going to continue down the same path that Kid's Corner/PIN debate did. Essentially, we're now arguing about whether Microsoft mis-implemented the feature that they think users wanted or properly implemented a feature that users should have wanted.
    a5cent likes this.
    08-13-2014 09:47 AM
  25. HTC13's Avatar
    This post is giving me a headache! To close an open folder, just press the "empty" folder above where all its contents dropped and then the app tiles will go back in the folder neatly closed again!

    This is such a cool feature when you learn how to use the new live folders as is. Microsoft did a great job and hope they don't change a thing.
    I_m_Snah likes this.
    08-13-2014 12:34 PM
40 12

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