10-24-2016 09:50 PM
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  1. xandros9's Avatar
    So true. Whenever I turn on my Amazon Fire phone I'm blown away by the number of available app updates. It's definitely an eye opener.
    And to think thats just the Amazon Fire, which doesn't have Google Play Services/the Play Store.
    libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    09-23-2016 06:27 PM
  2. Joe920's Avatar
    And to think thats just the Amazon Fire, which doesn't have Google Play Services/the Play Store.
    Actually there was a workaround that allowed people to install google play on the Fire Phone, as long as you trusted that some random dude's apk's posted on Dropbox were safe. I chose to believe the 'good Samaritan' vibe of his comments. :) So the tons of updates are just the usual Play Store updates. Still impressive though.
    xandros9 likes this.
    09-23-2016 06:56 PM
  3. vEEP pEEP's Avatar
    Yes
    09-23-2016 07:02 PM
  4. Joe920's Avatar
    Yes
    I want to believe, but the fact that this is your 666th post makes me wary..

    666.jpg
    CharlieWade, a5cent and xandros9 like this.
    09-23-2016 07:08 PM
  5. CraigCole's Avatar
    There's always hope. That said, the Lumia 950 is the second worst phone I've had the misfortune to own. Actually, scrap that. It is without a doubt the worst phone ever to find its way from design board to factory to consumer without anyone doing even a courtesy quality control check.

    If Microsoft back OEM's that knock out poor devices or, God Forbid, launch a "surface phone" with the kind of poor oversight of the 950 then it's tickets.
    I couldn't agree more! The unfathomably long list of issues plaguing the 950 and 950 XL are simply unbelievable. Microsoft should have skipped releasing these buggy disasters altogether to save face and save its biggest fans the hassle. Sure, they've gotten much better with updates, but W10M is still soooooo far behind the competition it's simply never going to catch up. I mean, the very basics of a smartphone still aren't there. For instance, the photos app blows chunks, battery life is more like death and the camera's performance leaves much to be desired (I tried taking a picture this afternoon and the camera had a stroke, doing nothing for, like, 30 seconds, finally taking a picture of the ground as I stood there in disbelief, disbelief that W10M is still THIS bad).
    rinosaur likes this.
    09-23-2016 07:25 PM
  6. Joe920's Avatar
    W10M is still soooooo far behind the competition it's simply never going to catch up. I mean, the very basics of a smartphone still aren't there. For instance, the photos app blows chunks, battery life is more like death and the camera's performance leaves much to be desired (I tried taking a picture this afternoon and the camera had a stroke, doing nothing for, like, 30 seconds, finally taking a picture of the ground as I stood there in disbelief, disbelief that W10M is still THIS bad).
    If you have any more thoughts on how WP is behind iOS and Android, please drop by in my dedicated thread on that. It's not meant for debating hardware or third party app issues, only the OS and native apps. So far I think WP comes out looking pretty good, but I agree that stability, (reliability of) battery life, and the photos app are all sub-par.

    Edit: I added power management and stability to the list of areas where WP is lagging.
    09-23-2016 07:32 PM
  7. Ten Four's Avatar
    Related somewhat too is that W10 on desktop and laptop isn't so great either--definitely a downgrade from W7 in terms of stability and lack of hassle. We switched at work some months ago and I don't think a day goes by without some weird glitch like add-ons dieing, or having an update lock up the computer. My father's PC was locked up totally until we restored back to W7, having to wipe out all his data in the process. Doesn't give you much confidence in UWP moving forward.
    09-24-2016 04:09 PM
  8. BMT001's Avatar
    Thank you. I always forget that in most of the world cell phones aren't subsidized by carriers and people purchase unlocked devices. The percentage of people that purchase unlocked devices compared to subsidized phones in the US is small but growing.
    libra89 and Chintan Gohel like this.
    09-24-2016 10:37 PM
  9. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    I couldn't agree more! The unfathomably long list of issues plaguing the 950 and 950 XL are simply unbelievable. Microsoft should have skipped releasing these buggy disasters altogether to save face and save its biggest fans the hassle. Sure, they've gotten much better with updates, but W10M is still soooooo far behind the competition it's simply never going to catch up. I mean, the very basics of a smartphone still aren't there. For instance, the photos app blows chunks, battery life is more like death and the camera's performance leaves much to be desired (I tried taking a picture this afternoon and the camera had a stroke, doing nothing for, like, 30 seconds, finally taking a picture of the ground as I stood there in disbelief, disbelief that W10M is still THIS bad).
    define the basics of a smartphone - and which are missing?
    My photos app works as it should
    I charge my phone at night, leave in the morning with 100%, get back home 12 hours later from work and it's at 85% or more. And I've been using whatsapp on and off, checking emails, a few sms, calls, check facebook once in a while. I haven't tried a endurance test but I believe my phone can easily do 3 days
    09-25-2016 02:38 AM
  10. CraigCole's Avatar
    define the basics of a smartphone - and which are missing?
    My photos app works as it should
    I charge my phone at night, leave in the morning with 100%, get back home 12 hours later from work and it's at 85% or more. And I've been using whatsapp on and off, checking emails, a few sms, calls, check facebook once in a while. I haven't tried a endurance test but I believe my phone can easily do 3 days
    The basics I'm referring to are things like: taking a picture when I press the shutter button, not delaying for 30 seconds then getting a shot of my shoes when I'm standing there trying to figure out why the camera's not working; core apps (like mail, calendar, people and photos) that don't randomly crash; having accounts that sync properly, not kick back (and un-copy-and-pasteable might I add) 0x8XXXXX error messages that, after copious research, appear unfixable; multitasking without "Resuming..." popping up all the time; VOIP apps like WhatsApp that don't randomly make my voice sound like a robot's, necessitating ending a call and starting it again; design consistency across a user interface; solid WiFi and Bluetooth connections; reliable notifications, so if you happen to miss a call you can get back to someone in a timely manner (just this morning my phone failed to deliver ANY notifications, when I saw something else not working properly I powered it down but it got stuck on the lockscreen. I waited at least five minutes but nothing happened so I performed a soft reset. After it rebooted a pile of backlogged notifications poured in. W10M is like a perverted game of whack-a-mole, you just never know how it's going to fail at at an inopportune time or otherwise screw you over); you know, minor things like these.

    As for battery life, how have you achieved this feat? Did you disable all the live tiles? Is battery saver set to kick in at 100 percent charge?
    Joe920, libra89, xandros9 and 4 others like this.
    09-25-2016 07:12 PM
  11. libra89's Avatar
    As for battery life, how have you achieved this feat? Did you disable all the live tiles? Is battery saver set to kick in at 100 percent charge?
    Yes seriously, I'll love to know too. My 640 on Windows 10 Mobile barely gets over a day.
    Guytronic and Laura Knotek like this.
    09-25-2016 08:49 PM
  12. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    The basics I'm referring to are things like: taking a picture when I press the shutter button, not delaying for 30 seconds then getting a shot of my shoes when I'm standing there trying to figure out why the camera's not working; core apps (like mail, calendar, people and photos) that don't randomly crash; having accounts that sync properly, not kick back (and un-copy-and-pasteable might I add) 0x8XXXXX error messages that, after copious research, appear unfixable; multitasking without "Resuming..." popping up all the time; VOIP apps like WhatsApp that don't randomly make my voice sound like a robot's, necessitating ending a call and starting it again; design consistency across a user interface; solid WiFi and Bluetooth connections; reliable notifications, so if you happen to miss a call you can get back to someone in a timely manner (just this morning my phone failed to deliver ANY notifications, when I saw something else not working properly I powered it down but it got stuck on the lockscreen. I waited at least five minutes but nothing happened so I performed a soft reset. After it rebooted a pile of backlogged notifications poured in. W10M is like a perverted game of whack-a-mole, you just never know how it's going to fail at at an inopportune time or otherwise screw you over); you know, minor things like these.

    As for battery life, how have you achieved this feat? Did you disable all the live tiles? Is battery saver set to kick in at 100 percent charge?
    Okay, you have a bad experience and continue to have one. Are you the majority though? I don't believe so. I know it feels awful to have this crazy experience - I don't know if we can write that off as a bad hardware combined with bad luck or what.

    I'm using a 540 - taking pictures - never crashed or slowed down
    Core apps crashing - never happened (to be fair I've only had it 3 weeks now)
    Yahoo account has sync issues but I think it's just yahoo
    I've never seen resuming screens - no joke
    I use whatsapp calling - never experienced your issue
    Wifi and BT work though I've never realised BT can be slow in transfers
    I have most notifications off - so the ones I get are reliable

    The biggest thing I've faced is that UC browser is using more battery than it should.

    and yes, I have battery saver on from100, always have
    libra89 likes this.
    09-25-2016 11:18 PM
  13. CraigCole's Avatar
    Okay, you have a bad experience and continue to have one. Are you the majority though? I don't believe so. I know it feels awful to have this crazy experience - I don't know if we can write that off as a bad hardware combined with bad luck or what.

    I'm using a 540 - taking pictures - never crashed or slowed down
    Core apps crashing - never happened (to be fair I've only had it 3 weeks now)
    Yahoo account has sync issues but I think it's just yahoo
    I've never seen resuming screens - no joke
    I use whatsapp calling - never experienced your issue
    Wifi and BT work though I've never realised BT can be slow in transfers
    I have most notifications off - so the ones I get are reliable

    The biggest thing I've faced is that UC browser is using more battery than it should.

    and yes, I have battery saver on from100, always have
    Turning off all the features and trumpeting the improved battery life is a bit like saying you only put gas in your car once a year but only drive it 100 miles in that time, no? :-)

    As for my phone, yes the overall experience has been terrible. When it works properly I quite like it, however, every other time I pick the thing up it seems something else is malfunctioning. I'd take it back to AT&T to get another refurbished handset (this is already my second one) but the problems aren't consistent enough and they'd never swap it out. :-(
    libra89 and Timbre70 like this.
    09-26-2016 09:06 AM
  14. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Turning off all the features and trumpeting the improved battery life is a bit like saying you only put gas in your car once a year but only drive it 100 miles in that time, no? :-)

    As for my phone, yes the overall experience has been terrible. When it works properly I quite like it, however, every other time I pick the thing up it seems something else is malfunctioning. I'd take it back to AT&T to get another refurbished handset (this is already my second one) but the problems aren't consistent enough and they'd never swap it out. :-(
    I am using my phone, but according to my usage needs.
    My typical day has me checking 5 email accounts 2-4 times a day, responding to emails, sending a couple of text messages, 3-10 calls a day, dozens of whatsapp messages, browsing on facebook a few times a day, listening to music on my commute to work and back home (40 -60 minutes each way), the occasional web browsing, photos, videos taking

    All the above and my battery is down 25-35% when I sleep. I don't have Cortana

    So is my usage low or high or medium?
    09-27-2016 01:52 AM
  15. casab1anca's Avatar
    I'd take it back to AT&T to get another refurbished handset (this is already my second one) but the problems aren't consistent enough and they'd never swap it out. :-(
    I've had several of the issues you mentioned and I don't believe any of those are hardware-related. The 950 has got some amazing hardware that is ruined by sub-par software and/or firmware. Redstone fixed a lot of the performance and stability issues but several issues remain. If it were possible to slap on iOS or Android on the 950, I think the difference would be night and day.

    I've been flip-flopping between all 3 mobile platforms in the past year and I can say that WP is still the most intuitive, but with big-name apps like Amazon, eBay and PayPal leaving the platform, I honestly don't see a future.
    libra89, CraigCole and rinosaur like this.
    10-01-2016 02:26 PM
  16. iamakii's Avatar
    Zero. Just for enterprise users and ahem fanboys that are still blinded by their love of Windows Phone.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    Timbre70 likes this.
    10-02-2016 07:24 AM
  17. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    I've had several of the issues you mentioned and I don't believe any of those are hardware-related. The 950 has got some amazing hardware that is ruined by sub-par software and/or firmware. Redstone fixed a lot of the performance and stability issues but several issues remain. If it were possible to slap on iOS or Android on the 950, I think the difference would be night and day.

    I've been flip-flopping between all 3 mobile platforms in the past year and I can say that WP is still the most intuitive, but with big-name apps like Amazon, eBay and PayPal leaving the platform, I honestly don't see a future.
    these big name apps like amazon and ebay are big in some countries (you can guess which ones). The same countries where WP did not or has not done well

    Our biggest telcom Safaricom have forayed into taxi services like Uber with their own app, and guess what, they have a W10M app.
    10-02-2016 09:28 AM
  18. Tunde Fajimi's Avatar
    Frankly the market leaders aren't going anywhere. The year after year of their pulling ahead is over. Margins on Android are atrocious, and frankly 50% of the market is not sustainable. Carriers are lowering prices, even they feel the pressure of the saturation. In a saturated market a well resourced, well organized opponent can go far. We tend to think of things failing in months in this market. Yet iPhone is almost 10 years old. They didn't get here overnight, neither did Android and neither will Windows mobile.
    A couple years ago forums were ablaze that there was no possible way MS could succeed with Surface, that they were doomed to drop it. I note the same issues now as then. The product is good, and none of the other competitors has a better core product. It will take time (and yes marketing) but the time to really blaze the market isn't quite here yet. Look at the X3 selling out so many times. It's not changing fortune by itself, but it's fulfilling a market desire. That is the sign to pay attention to. Some part of the market truly wants these devices. NY Police Dept and BMW all going Windows phone. Airlines using entirely Surface tablets. Things are changing. Just not in terms of weeks. This is a longplay game because the others have had years of lead time.
    Thing is, the businesses buying ones are following their CTOs recommendations. It's a one-person, business-tech situation and not a mass user-driven situation. You may be surprised many of those users prefer other devices in their personal lives.

    Maybe MS should just leave the consumer hardware market for smartphones, and focus on breaking the next-gen device Surface-like device (Hololens/Band with LTE radios) to transform the consumer expectation.
    casab1anca likes this.
    10-02-2016 10:53 AM
  19. Tunde Fajimi's Avatar
    Related somewhat too is that W10 on desktop and laptop isn't so great either--definitely a downgrade from W7 in terms of stability and lack of hassle. We switched at work some months ago and I don't think a day goes by without some weird glitch like add-ons dieing, or having an update lock up the computer. My father's PC was locked up totally until we restored back to W7, having to wipe out all his data in the process. Doesn't give you much confidence in UWP moving forward.
    So sorry Ten Four. That must have been annoying, having your dad lose all his data. MS does need to improve in the perception of stability and maturity of their platform. There's still this beta feel I get to the interface and the random "BSOD" with weird error code and I'm in IT.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    10-02-2016 11:21 AM
  20. Joe920's Avatar
    Speaking of ten four, today is October 4th, the day google announces their next phones, presumably the Pixel and the Pixel XL (pronounced Pixelixel?). Noon eastern, 9am pacific.

    And in unrelated news, this morning I really enjoyed that I could listen to the Soma FM app in my car, and then use Cortana to figure out the song. Pretty great that 'she' can listen to the phone output. The audio never even interrupted.

    Oh Cortana, just when I thought I was out, you pull me back in :)
    libra89 and mary beth hale like this.
    10-04-2016 08:42 AM
  21. davebwi's Avatar
    I'm going to view this from two points of view.

    First, from a consumer point of view, IF having access to the latest and greatest is your thing than at this point in time WM is a complete waste of time. You're better off sticking to iOS and Android. Also, when we get to the bottom line for a consumer, experience is everything and right now, for the moment, experience means apps. Until that changes, WM is dead last for most consumers. Hence the barely 1% market share.

    Second, from the point of view of business. WM has pretty much all you need and then some. It's not perfect and I have little doubt not everything is available for all enterprises but on the whole, WM is a good business OS. For those businesses going to Windows 10 having a W10M makes sense. With Continuum it makes even more sense. So from that perspective you can see the divide.

    MS is interested in attracting businesses because that's where see the market there for them. Lots of enterprises use Windows, unfortunately not all will upgrade to Windows 10 any time soon. But I guess this is a way to entice them.

    It really doesn't matter if MS bring out the 'Surface Phone' or not. The average consumer won't care in the least. Without the apps W10M might as well be dead for the consumer. For businesses on the other hand, a Surface Phone might be a great thing.

    This is the crux of the problem. MS wants businesses to be the push to get W10M popular. Consumers who are on W10M want MS to push for consumers to get the apps they want. However, MS's strategy is business first at the moment in hopes that increase numbers, thus being more attractive to developers. This is a long term straggly and one that consumers, being the 'I want it now' mentality, can't work with. Hence the drop in number of consumers.

    So, to put it bluntly, if you're a consumer and want W10M to succeed any time soon you're going to be waiting a long time unfortunately because at the moment W10M strategy isn't for you.

    That's my two cents.
    I agree completely, The APPS are the problem.. But what Microsoft seems to not get is that Business users, dont want 2 phones,
    I am a small business owner, Until recently,I had 9 Lumia 950's for my main employees, slowly changing to Galaxy 7S... I loved my windows phone, but I needed 1 phone to run my business , and set my alarm at home , and my business, and some times Business owners go to sporting events! and would like an app for those things too.....
    xandros9 and libra89 like this.
    10-04-2016 10:51 AM
  22. Ten Four's Avatar
    I agree completely, The APPS are the problem.. But what Microsoft seems to not get is that Business users, dont want 2 phones,
    I am a small business owner, Until recently,I had 9 Lumia 950's for my main employees, slowly changing to Galaxy 7S... I loved my windows phone, but I needed 1 phone to run my business , and set my alarm at home , and my business, and some times Business owners go to sporting events! and would like an app for those things too.....
    ^^This^^ Even if you love Windows it is impractical to force everyone to use a phone ecosystem they surely don't use in their personal lives. If nothing else, you will have disgruntled employees. Plus, I imagine many companies will go with whatever the CEO and CTO like, and chances are very high they are using Apple devices.
    10-05-2016 07:37 AM
  23. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I agree completely, The APPS are the problem.. But what Microsoft seems to not get is that Business users, dont want 2 phones,
    I am a small business owner, Until recently,I had 9 Lumia 950's for my main employees, slowly changing to Galaxy 7S... I loved my windows phone, but I needed 1 phone to run my business , and set my alarm at home , and my business, and some times Business owners go to sporting events! and would like an app for those things too.....
    Windows Phones are great for corporate customers... they don't want their employees playing with all the apps...

    Anyway about it, it's a problem with the OS.... Just try to do anything LOCAL with a Windows Phone and your very limited, Android or iOS, you get every TV station, every Radio station, you get the local pizza place and even the local super market, with apps for every one of them....Not with Windows Phone... Microsoft screws up again....
    Laura Knotek and libra89 like this.
    10-24-2016 09:50 PM
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