Does Windows 10 mobile have a future in the world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

[TheChazas]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

I don't remember who said it around these parts first but the bugginess really matters when it comes to what you are doing on the phone. If there is bugginess when it comes to doing regular activities on a phone, such as sending email, or so, that is annoying. Very annoying. The random restart thing, is annoying too.

My iPhone or my Android have never randomly restarted on me. I don't experience bugginess doing regular tasks. I was shocked that the 950 randomly restarts (which it did to me 2x). Basically, I agree that no OS is perfect, but if anything, it should not have issues doing regular expected things.

Anyway, I would like to see W10M become a solid third option. In my opinion, the all or none approach for customization isn't something I like. Indifferent about Continuum to care about it.

I don't know what people do with their phones or what actually happening, but personally, I have never ever had any random restarts on several various Windows phones, starting from W7, W8 and now W10M, only had a one or two restarts with my brand new 950 with its first release build, after a firmware and now various Insider builds, I never get any random restarts, any restarts at all, even on high use, lucky me I guess.
Now to say that Windows is crappy and always randomly restarts and etc. I do hear same complains on iOS and how their iPhones or Androids always randomly restarts, overheats and all. Mostly it all comes down to a user and not a product or OS. As a user of multiple platforms I really do not have anything to complain about, but still I prefer Windows the most.

Anyway, todays "most" buyers fall for mainstream and gets only what is the most popular and praise it, because they saw sponsored 20 million views video and they look no further. Thing is, people fall so hard for the mainstream that they buy only high-end phones, while they only do selfies, and use it only for instagram and facebook, and don't even know most of their functions and capabilities, and then other brands, they don't even look for other brands, because internet already told them what to buy.

 

[libra89]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

I don't know what people do with their phones or what actually happening, but personally, I have never ever had any random restarts on several various Windows phones, starting from W7, W8 and now W10M, only had a one or two restarts with my brand new 950 with its first release build, after a firmware and now various Insider builds, I never get any random restarts, any restarts at all, even on high use, lucky me I guess.
Now to say that Windows is crappy and always randomly restarts and etc. I do hear same complains on iOS and how their iPhones or Androids always randomly restarts, overheats and all. Mostly it all comes down to a user and not a product or OS. As a user of multiple platforms I really do not have anything to complain about, but still I prefer Windows the most.

Anyway, todays "most" buyers fall for mainstream and gets only what is the most popular and praise it, because they saw sponsored 20 million views video and they look no further. Thing is, people fall so hard for the mainstream that they buy only high-end phones, while they only do selfies, and use it only for instagram and facebook, and don't even know most of their functions and capabilities, and then other brands, they don't even look for other brands, because internet already told them what to buy.

I think you might have misunderstood some of my statements so I'll try to go in the order you did.

-I haven't had any random restarts on any of my other Windows Phones I have owned and tried before the 950. It's never happened, hence my shock that it happened with the very last build before the anniversary update, which is only 2 builds back (No Insider for me). Even my 640 that has Windows 10 Mobile on it, has never randomly restarted on me.

-I did not say at all that Windows is crappy and randomly restarts. First, I wouldn't say that it is crappy. I'm starting to think that the random restart thing is phone dependent.

-This is the first I am hearing about this with iOS ever. I'm sure it happens but the frequency doesn't appear to be as much. iOS generally does a good job with optimizing its software to work with its hardware.

-As for Android, there are many versions of it, and yes, I have heard overheating issues with different phones with it (hello Sony!). I can agree with that in a general sense, but in that case, it's phone dependent.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on it being the user and not the OS/phone. I have tried MANY phones this year, with different OS, OEMs, etc. There have been differences in all of them, good and bad ones.

-Of course they go for the mainstream, only tech nerds really care to find everything available, compare and try everything new under the sun. Apple and Samsung both promote their flagship products very well, and there's also the power of word of mouth too. In my group of friends and even my coworkers, I am the only one who keeps changing their phone, talking about phones, knowing about all of the OSes, etc.

I think someone around here said something along the lines of, "People know what they know about phones because of their social groups (coworkers, friends, family, etc). To expect anything more is silly."

 

[Krystianpants]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

UWP is a nice thing on paper but, it's about 5-6 years too late. With Windows Phone share now around 1% devs wont even bother in a lot of cases just do to the support needed to support the app.

I would argue that UWP is 2-3 years too early. I don't think people realize the scope of Windows 10 and what it means for the future.

MS has been putting a lot of money into their crazy windows 10 project. It may not seem like much but having one operating system controlling any type of system is pretty huge. One that conforms to any type of hardware. Whether holographic, touch, mobile, iot, appliances, all running the same thing, no need for separation. I would think it's the most future forward thing. A lot will argue that they are not running the same thing because Desktop has win32 apps. Well, that's really there for backwards compatibility for transitional sake. As you can't just wipe an existing user base that big out. Windows will remain the same on Desktop space just those win32 exe files will be replaced with .appx packages. If you look in storage>apps and games, you will see "App installer'. This installs UWP apps and even shows you permissions and everything.

A lot of products rely on an OS and often times these products take more time to get to market due to needing OS integration and then building an app ecosystem separately. An OS that can adapt to the product will allow innovative products to hit the market sooner than later and to piggy back off an existing ecosystem. Think of Android but even easier and in any category not just phones. MS can partner with companies to add optimization to any new hardware they put out. They can add support without changing the OS or creating a new one. Apple has the Apple watch OS, Apple TV os, Mac OS and ios. Each product has a new ecosystem being built. Products likely took longer to reach consumers because of the OS. And it can all be done on one OS and even get the same level of optimization. It's just doing it takes more work and it would be a huge mess of a process getting there. Sound familiar? Yah, because you've been experiencing that huge mess for quite some time now. But that mess is getting cleaned up more and more as time goes by. The end result will be a great achievement. But the OS is part of the story, one of the most important is building the right partners and showing these partners what can be achieved with the right hardware/software mix.

One thing you will be seeing is a huge VR/AR/MR ecosystem open up around windows 10. It's already in motion.

 

[Avatar of Apathy]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

LOL He's a business man, not a mathematician. =P

But for real, he does have quite a few valid points. I also seem to remember hearing that before the 360's came out that MS was taking a loss on each Xbox that rolled off the line. Thankfully they didn't kill that as well!

 

[Avatar of Apathy]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

I think someone around here said something along the lines of, "People know what they know about phones because of their social groups (coworkers, friends, family, etc). To expect anything more is silly."

Bingo! I remember once I told my old supervisor that my phone was a Windows Phone (who obviously didn't know WTF that was) and he responded "Windows Phone? That's crappy isn't it? Apple baby!"

This response was basically because this is what his kids used, so this is what his household uses. They wouldn't be bothered to try something different, and actually give it an honest review. Most people wont, they will go what with they know, or what they have heard is good.

 

[xandros9]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

It doesn't have a future as long as Microsoft continues treating it as a hobby.

 

[Ten Four]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

Former Windows 10 phone user here who has been using a Nexus 5x on Project Fi since June. The #1 difference being on Android is lack of hassle and day-to-day useability. Once the phone is set up the way you want it everything just works, assuming you don't have a bunch of crappy apps, and you never have to think about it. Need an app for something--you will find many choices. Need an app for work--no problem! Want to try some new social app--there it is! It's the apps, and there is nothing that can be done about that until we move away from the app-centered phone. I loved the old Windows Phone interface, still basically like the W10 phone interface (though it is definitely worse), and was fine with not having something in the mainstream most of the time. But, if you just want to be able to get anything done that is mobile-centric you need to be on either iOS or Android to have the best experience, and in some cases on W10 you will just be shut out: local bank app, local store app, restaurant ordering app, bus schedule, etc. etc.

 

[CharlieWade]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

You're not actually getting the phone for "free" on contracts. You're monthly plan is usually more on contracts plus the activation/upgrade charges can be up to $45 dollars. Monthly payment plan's work out better than upfront due to promotions, trade-ins, and your wireless rep is more likely to help you more as signing people up for payment plans are usually in their monthly quota.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

Former Windows 10 phone user here who has been using a Nexus 5x on Project Fi since June. The #1 difference being on Android is lack of hassle and day-to-day useability. Once the phone is set up the way you want it everything just works, assuming you don't have a bunch of crappy apps, and you never have to think about it. Need an app for something--you will find many choices. Need an app for work--no problem! Want to try some new social app--there it is! It's the apps, and there is nothing that can be done about that until we move away from the app-centered phone. I loved the old Windows Phone interface, still basically like the W10 phone interface (though it is definitely worse), and was fine with not having something in the mainstream most of the time. But, if you just want to be able to get anything done that is mobile-centric you need to be on either iOS or Android to have the best experience, and in some cases on W10 you will just be shut out: local bank app, local store app, restaurant ordering app, bus schedule, etc. etc.

The other thing I've noticed is the sheer number of app updates. It's not unusual for me to get updates for 40 different apps in a week.

 

[Joe920]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

The other thing I've noticed is the sheer number of app updates. It's not unusual for me to get updates for 40 different apps in a week.

So true. Whenever I turn on my Amazon Fire phone I'm blown away by the number of available app updates. It's definitely an eye opener.

 

[xandros9]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

So true. Whenever I turn on my Amazon Fire phone I'm blown away by the number of available app updates. It's definitely an eye opener.

And to think thats just the Amazon Fire, which doesn't have Google Play Services/the Play Store.

 

[Joe920]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

And to think thats just the Amazon Fire, which doesn't have Google Play Services/the Play Store.

Actually there was a workaround that allowed people to install google play on the Fire Phone, as long as you trusted that some random dude's apk's posted on Dropbox were safe. I chose to believe the 'good Samaritan' vibe of his comments. So the tons of updates are just the usual Play Store updates. Still impressive though.

 

[vEEP pEEP]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

Yes

 

[Joe920]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

Yes

I want to believe, but the fact that this is your 666th post makes me wary..

 

[CraigCole]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

There's always hope. That said, the Lumia 950 is the second worst phone I've had the misfortune to own. Actually, scrap that. It is without a doubt the worst phone ever to find its way from design board to factory to consumer without anyone doing even a courtesy quality control check.

If Microsoft back OEM's that knock out poor devices or, God Forbid, launch a "surface phone" with the kind of poor oversight of the 950 then it's tickets.

I couldn't agree more! The unfathomably long list of issues plaguing the 950 and 950 XL are simply unbelievable. Microsoft should have skipped releasing these buggy disasters altogether to save face and save its biggest fans the hassle. Sure, they've gotten much better with updates, but W10M is still soooooo far behind the competition it's simply never going to catch up. I mean, the very basics of a smartphone still aren't there. For instance, the photos app blows chunks, battery life is more like death and the camera's performance leaves much to be desired (I tried taking a picture this afternoon and the camera had a stroke, doing nothing for, like, 30 seconds, finally taking a picture of the ground as I stood there in disbelief, disbelief that W10M is still THIS bad).

 

[Joe920]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

W10M is still soooooo far behind the competition it's simply never going to catch up. I mean, the very basics of a smartphone still aren't there. For instance, the photos app blows chunks, battery life is more like death and the camera's performance leaves much to be desired (I tried taking a picture this afternoon and the camera had a stroke, doing nothing for, like, 30 seconds, finally taking a picture of the ground as I stood there in disbelief, disbelief that W10M is still THIS bad).

If you have any more thoughts on how WP is behind iOS and Android, please drop by in my dedicated thread on that. It's not meant for debating hardware or third party app issues, only the OS and native apps. So far I think WP comes out looking pretty good, but I agree that stability, (reliability of) battery life, and the photos app are all sub-par.

Edit: I added power management and stability to the list of areas where WP is lagging.

 

[Ten Four]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

Related somewhat too is that W10 on desktop and laptop isn't so great either--definitely a downgrade from W7 in terms of stability and lack of hassle. We switched at work some months ago and I don't think a day goes by without some weird glitch like add-ons dieing, or having an update lock up the computer. My father's PC was locked up totally until we restored back to W7, having to wipe out all his data in the process. Doesn't give you much confidence in UWP moving forward.

 

[BMT001]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

Thank you. I always forget that in most of the world cell phones aren't subsidized by carriers and people purchase unlocked devices. The percentage of people that purchase unlocked devices compared to subsidized phones in the US is small but growing.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

I couldn't agree more! The unfathomably long list of issues plaguing the 950 and 950 XL are simply unbelievable. Microsoft should have skipped releasing these buggy disasters altogether to save face and save its biggest fans the hassle. Sure, they've gotten much better with updates, but W10M is still soooooo far behind the competition it's simply never going to catch up. I mean, the very basics of a smartphone still aren't there. For instance, the photos app blows chunks, battery life is more like death and the camera's performance leaves much to be desired (I tried taking a picture this afternoon and the camera had a stroke, doing nothing for, like, 30 seconds, finally taking a picture of the ground as I stood there in disbelief, disbelief that W10M is still THIS bad).

define the basics of a smartphone - and which are missing?
My photos app works as it should
I charge my phone at night, leave in the morning with 100%, get back home 12 hours later from work and it's at 85% or more. And I've been using whatsapp on and off, checking emails, a few sms, calls, check facebook once in a while. I haven't tried a endurance test but I believe my phone can easily do 3 days

 

[CraigCole]

Re: Does Windows 10 mobile has a future in a world of iOS10 and Google Nougat?

define the basics of a smartphone - and which are missing?
My photos app works as it should
I charge my phone at night, leave in the morning with 100%, get back home 12 hours later from work and it's at 85% or more. And I've been using whatsapp on and off, checking emails, a few sms, calls, check facebook once in a while. I haven't tried a endurance test but I believe my phone can easily do 3 days

The basics I'm referring to are things like: taking a picture when I press the shutter button, not delaying for 30 seconds then getting a shot of my shoes when I'm standing there trying to figure out why the camera's not working; core apps (like mail, calendar, people and photos) that don't randomly crash; having accounts that sync properly, not kick back (and un-copy-and-pasteable might I add) 0x8XXXXX error messages that, after copious research, appear unfixable; multitasking without "Resuming..." popping up all the time; VOIP apps like WhatsApp that don't randomly make my voice sound like a robot's, necessitating ending a call and starting it again; design consistency across a user interface; solid WiFi and Bluetooth connections; reliable notifications, so if you happen to miss a call you can get back to someone in a timely manner (just this morning my phone failed to deliver ANY notifications, when I saw something else not working properly I powered it down but it got stuck on the lockscreen. I waited at least five minutes but nothing happened so I performed a soft reset. After it rebooted a pile of backlogged notifications poured in. W10M is like a perverted game of whack-a-mole, you just never know how it's going to fail at at an inopportune time or otherwise screw you over); you know, minor things like these.

As for battery life, how have you achieved this feat? Did you disable all the live tiles? Is battery saver set to kick in at 100 percent charge?