A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

bradavon

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I usually rate Zac's work for Windows Central but this article comes across as a long rant. Sorry but it does. A lot of personal opinion.

The comparison's between Apple and Microsoft don't really work though, they're very different business models.

People often forget "the Internet's view on Windows" isn't the world's view. I know Daniel Rubino knows this and I suspect Zac does too.

In the main Windows 11 is a success. Windows Recall isn't going down well though true.
 

Nobody_Special

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I'm sorry. On paper, this sounds like a good feature?

In what world?

Why on earth would I want a constantly running screen recorder wasting processing power, electricity, and clogging up my hard drive?

I cannot think of a problem this is actually solving.
 

Zac Bowden

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I usually rate Zac's work for Windows Central but this article comes across as a long rant. Sorry but it does. A lot of personal opinion.

The comparison's between Apple and Microsoft don't really work though, they're very different business models.

People often forget "the Internet's view on Windows" isn't the world's view. I know Daniel Rubino knows this and I suspect Zac does too.

In the main Windows 11 is a success. Windows Recall isn't going down well though true.
"A lot of personal opinion."

... it is an opinion piece.
 

Ron-F

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Earning trust takes time. Microsoft could start the journey by announcing the feature will be opt in and the security vulnerability is being patched — preferable at day one.

I don’t think Microsoft cares much for Windows. Panos perhaps did, but the I am not sure company does. The replacement of dedicated apps for PWAs are a sign of it. The non scrupulous placement of adds, another. Now we have a major innovative feature introduced with little care. It is hard to be optimist about the future of Windows.
 

Usher2hell

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You left out more reasons to not trust a thing windows does

1 windows has built in backdoors for all the 3 letter agencies
2 deletes exe files without your permission crippling programs
3 regularly systematically destroys older hardware
4 ignore your preference to not receive system breaking updates and will even pull said updates off of other network devices
5 will download updates regardless of data settings


Truth isn't slander. They get away with it because they fully cooperate with the traitorous government with things such as the patriot act

Windows has been Malware for years and has not been worth the Ease of use Functions since xp
 

Arun Topez

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This article is all insinuation and slander, "Just because Microsoft say they won't do something doesn't mean they won't", you endlessly imply.

If they did, that would be a major pr disaster, whereas keeping to their word, after Satya Nadella has told the company to focus on security, suggests they are probably going to keep their word.

They are a large company with countless people checking up on them, if they started to cheat, we'd know about it pretty damned quickly.

Putting adverts in your products says nothing about your honesty when it comes to keeping data secure. Linking the two creates a clearly unjustified sense of mistrust.

This article is drivel and the author should be ashamed of themselves.
Did you even read the article? All those things you mentioned were summaries of what USERS and tech influencers are saying across the internet. Zac (the writer of the article) is the probably the only person on social media who's still defending Recall even after the nightmare of privacy issues that people have discovered (including reading hidden passwords), yet you say he should be ashamed of himself? lol

Just because they are 'a large company with countless people checking up on them' doesn't make them innocent and omit them of any corruption and anti-user decisions, and anyone who's worked deep within large corps knows that for a fact. You guys need to stop worshipping these large corporations and hold them accountable instead.
 

xenred

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Actions speak louder than words.

Microsoft makes users jump through loops to setup a computer they purchased (with a legitimate Windows key) without a forced Microsoft Account. How can you trust Microsoft when they actively fight their customers by trying to patch-out workarounds for offline activation?

I've listed to the Windows Central Podcast, I've heard "Oh well Android makes you do it!" as if Google doing something dodgy is a justification for Microsoft doing this for a PC. Funny how Mac & Linux don't need this, funny how previous versions of Windows don't need this... FUNNY HOW WINDOWS 11 DOESN'T NEED IT.

It might be very well easy for you or me to set-up a computer with an account. I've had Microsoft Account forever now, it ties in decades of Email, Xbox, Windows Phone, etc. My OneDrive remembers photos I took on my Windows Phone in the latter years of high-school. However I am not so lacking of grass-touching that I cannot see that this is a major issue for general and broader users. It is a mistake of tech-writers to not consider the possiblites for those who don't live with smart-home lights synced to their smart-watches.

Forcing online & online accounts a terrible practice. Full stop. It's not great for parents gifting a laptop for their child to be first greeted with an account sign-up page. Not ideal for seniors (or even other normies) who struggle with computers to be first greeted with an internet/sign-up page. My senior neighbour (bless her) is always needing my help accessing her Outlook emails. Imagine if she had to setup a Windows 11 system on her own?

There's a local charity that you can donate laptops to and they'll refresh them with Windows before donating them to children in need in Papua New Guinea for school etc. Let me tell you, the PNG isn't exactly awash with home internet access, some villages might have one or two phones if lucky. So do those kids just not get a laptop anymore? - Now the logical choice, swap to Linux, or stick with Windows 10.

Heck, plenty of regional areas of Australia, United States, Canada etc have spotty or lack of internet. Imagine gifting a set of laptops to a remote Indigenous community in the Kimberley (and yes they have schools and laptops), but they might not have a steady internet access, only radio. Well, **** you if you get a Windows 11 laptop kids. You cannot even get to the desktop.

Microsoft doesn't care, they are the owner of the world's largest operating system. An overwhelming amount of market-share. But that's not good enough apparently, being a trillion dollar company isn't good enough. You need to squeeze every drip of data from users, an in the process cut off those without internet, those who aren't tech-savy and those who aren't over 13 (who you can legally suck the data from).

So no, I don't trust Microsoft with Recall. Why would you? They force an internet connection and a Microsoft Account when there's literally no reason other than greed. It is not unreasonable to assume an alternative motive for Recall when Microsoft hasn't even shown the bare minimum pretense of care for their own customers.

People want their computers to be easy, fast and stable. They couldn't give a toss about a MSN News widget.
Preach! I myself like using MSA and I do encourage users, but the practice of forcing it and making dang too difficult to skip it is bad and there are legit use case not to have online accounts if at all when setting up the PC.

Your cited examples shows how many comments here really are out of touch with the reality and living with their own tech bubble first world utopia that internet access is all accessible, fast and stable. No, the reality it is not. Heck even in subways and driving cross-country, internet can be spotty if not unavailable even in so called "first world" countries.

Accusing this article as FUD because its largely criticising their beloved Microsoft? Its not like these quoted issues are just out of thin air and all made up. Actually, many been stated here are long time problems that MS still don't acknowledge and their rabid fans actively ignoring. True MS fans know these flaws that needed to address. There is a reason where there is a distrust in Microsoft, not because of trolls or anti-MS, but there are legit issues coming from actual people who do like Microsoft products and general users who rely on their products and services and spent their money and time on it.

The more we ignore these, the more we get more people having second thoughts with Microsoft. There is a reason why in regard to most consumer-related things, Microsoft isn't the top of the mindshare of most people and even a butt joke on certain areas. That perception was formed due to histories that still not being addressed and hard to fix without constant commitment to fix it.
 

gcc321

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The author, along with most people crying about Recall are hypocrites who don't give a **** about privacy. They freely allow Apple and Google to record every word they say, scan and identify faces on every picture they take, and upload all their files to the cloud to get analyzed and reported to the FBI. They take their 24/7 surveillance toys to the bathroom, to the grocery, to work, even to bed to record anything they might utter in their sleep. And they've been completely silent about Apple and Google doing this for the last 10 years.

The term virtue signaler was invented for idiots like these.

1717348567160159.png



https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2022/11/apple-sued-for-pervasive-and-unlawful-data-tracking
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...-hear-confidential-details-on-siri-recordings
https://sneak.berlin/20230115/macos-scans-your-local-files-now
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html
Where was the outcry from the privacy virtue signalers when these pieces hit? Nowhere.
Where was the threat or proclamation they would be switching to LineageOS and PlasmaMobile? Nowhere.
These were forgotten overnight despite the far more invasive spying, and these are only the tip of the iceberg of Apple/Google spying.

If I had a million dollars for every time I've met someone in person that preached about privacy and had a phone without Apple/Google in their pocket, I still wouldn't be a millionaire.
 
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Baelin

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This article is all insinuation and slander, "Just because Microsoft say they won't do something doesn't mean they won't", you endlessly imply.

If they did, that would be a major pr disaster, whereas keeping to their word, after Satya Nadella has told the company to focus on security, suggests they are probably going to keep their word.

They are a large company with countless people checking up on them, if they started to cheat, we'd know about it pretty damned quickly.

Putting adverts in your products says nothing about your honesty when it comes to keeping data secure. Linking the two creates a clearly unjustified sense of mistrust.

This article is drivel and the author should be ashamed of themselves.
I'm guessing that you work for Microsoft?
 

bradavon

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1 windows has built in backdoors for all the 3 letter agencies
2 deletes exe files without your permission crippling programs
3 regularly systematically destroys older hardware
4 ignore your preference to not receive system breaking updates and will even pull said updates off of other network devices
5 will download updates regardless of data settings
What's a letter agency?

I've never ever known Windows to delete EXEs, Windows can't destroy hardware that's not even possible.

The last two literally apply to every mainstream Operating System.


Truth isn't slander. They get away with it because they fully cooperate with the traitorous government with things such as the patriot act.
You sound like Donald Trump and look where that got it.
 

gcc321

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I swear I thought Recall was enabled by default on CoPilot+ PCs?
Since the reveal from that WSJ piece, they said it would be opt-in on first user setup on a new PC.


You can tell who's running clickbait trash sites by whether they chose to intentionally omit that info or not.

There's lots of legitimate reasons someone could have for not wanting to use any MS products, but I've yet to meet a single one of these "privacy advocates" who isn't a massive hypocrite with Apple/Google in their pocket 24/7.
 
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Jeffery L

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It's a nightmare scenario for Microsoft. Windows Recall is under significant fire for being what many are saying is a major breach of privacy and security on Windows.

A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back : Read more
You would think putting all your stuff on the cloud would raise concerns. And I've always wondered if HP is looking at my print outs. Google looks at every URL you go to and all your search terms. Your ISP also looks at every URL you go to.

I remember the Timeline feature in Windows. I disabled it immediately because it took more cognitive load just to sort through all the information. But with Recall, it seems different because you can use AI to sort through all the information. It reminds me of the show Continuum. There was a thing in your brain that recorded everything you experienced, and you could ask an AI assistant to "recall" something.
 

dkstrauss

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I am really amazed at the vitriolic defense of Microsoft in these comments. Zac's article is spot on, and it is FOREMOST a case of trust of Microsoft. If you lived through the introduction of MS Edge, when it reset all your defaults to Edge; you'd reset Chrome, Adobe, etc. as your defaults, and on the very next patch or update you'd open a PDF and up it popped in Edge again. Then you'd set Chrome as your default browser and search engine, only to click on a link and up popped Edge and Bing.

Everyone here, especially those challenging Zac and Daniel's opinions, needs to watch Steve Gibson on Security Now, not only where he confirms all of Beaumont's findings, but actually analyzes where Microsoft is really going with all of this - a very laudable goal of the ultimate personal assistant with access to YEARS of information on your computer (the database for Recall is highly compressed and efficient), BUT without clear realization of the implications of its acccessabilty by threat actors.

Also, a topic which no one seems to comment on, is what a treasure this will be for investigators like the NSA, FBI, EU governments, not to mention the usual suspects form China, N Korea, Russia, etc. Do you really think China won't demand Recall must be enabled and NOT be an opt-out for its citizens?

All you need to do is parse Microsoft's initial response that it had no plans at present to enable its own access of the Recall data blob.
 

dirtyvu

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The changes should make people happy: 1) opt-in instead of opt-out, 2) Windows Hello must be used to use Recall, 3) screenshots and database are encrypted and need Windows Hello authentication in order to open. All that means that it should address the situation that another user on that system could access the data since they wouldn't be able to authenticate, not even the administrator could bypass it.

However, we need to discuss the previous situation. The premise of the security expert is how Recall is open and available for a hacker who is already in the system. Well, if a hacker is already in the system, Recall is the least of the problems. It's like saying a burglar is in the house, so how do you protect yourself from the burglar peeping on you. If a burglar is already in the house, you have a lot more things to worry about than peeping.
 

GTech

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It's a nightmare scenario for Microsoft. Windows Recall is under significant fire for being what many are saying is a major breach of privacy and security on Windows.

A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back : Read more
The idea that nobody trusts Microsoft Windows is absurd. Windows is the most used OS on the market by a very large margin with 90% plus of the market. That doesn't happen because nobody trusts it. Of course anytime they do something there will be some blowback and of course it will be more than any other operating system because they have so many more users. Simple mathematics will tell you the 2% of 90% is a far greater amount than 2% of 4% or 6%.
The reason Windows gets more flack is because they have more users not because they're doing things wrong. When Apple does something that everyone hates that uses it that's a very small number of people that hate it compared to the number of people that use Windows.
Windows is obviously more trusted because it's more used and people don't use things that don't trust. And by the way if you hate windows so much why are you writing for Windowscentral? In fact why are you even still using Windows?
 

TheFerrango

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The idea that nobody trusts Microsoft Windows is absurd. Windows is the most used OS on the market by a very large margin with 90% plus of the market. That doesn't happen because nobody trusts it. Of course anytime they do something there will be some blowback and of course it will be more than any other operating system because they have so many more users. Simple mathematics will tell you the 2% of 90% is a far greater amount than 2% of 4% or 6%.
The reason Windows gets more flack is because they have more users not because they're doing things wrong. When Apple does something that everyone hates that uses it that's a very small number of people that hate it compared to the number of people that use Windows.
Windows is obviously more trusted because it's more used and people don't use things that don't trust. And by the way if you hate windows so much why are you writing for Windowscentral? In fact why are you even still using Windows?
The general public doesn’t really care about Windows and uses it out of inertia/necessity, not because they have a deep trust in Microsoft’s efforts and standards. Businesses trust Microsoft because of licenses and liabilities, but Windows only got big in Enterprise by being cheaper than Unix and “good enough” for most tasks back in the 90s, not really because it exuded trustworthiness.

I have next to zero trust in both Google and Meta, and yet I still use their services out of necessity.

On a personal note, I’m here because I used to a huge Microsoft fan and really liked their consumer stuff (Zune/WP). The way they handled that and the push for ads (or tips as they call them) is what started eroding my trust in them, but I still like to keep an eye on what’s happening.
 
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honestly-7

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The overall premise is true, I'd say.

Who would trust Microsoft with such a tool?

Even independent of Recall, I don't think many users are happy with Microsoft's practices on Windows. Apple is better in this regard.

Microsoft isn't precisely the most trustworthy company out there.
 

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