AMD vs Intel - or - How I got my first build (+little what's what on PC parts)

[Keith Wallace]

Re: AMD vs Intel

I see. For me, I prefer to do it all online because our local store is marked up about 20% from Newegg, which isn't usually the cheapest source for parts itself. I'm going to look through the site and try to get something to put together for you. It'll be a little slow because I have to guess at my navigation a little, haha.

 

[Keith Wallace]

Re: AMD vs Intel

CPU: Intel Core i3-4130, 2x 3.40GHz, tray (CM8064601483615) Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €93,90
Motherboard: ASRock H87M Pro4 (90-MXGPE0-A0UAYZ) Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €62,89
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost Windforce 2X OC, 1GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort (GV-N65TBOC-1GD) Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €129,30
RAM: G.Skill Ares DIMM Kit 8GB, DDR3-1600, CL9-9-9-24 (F3-1600C9D-8GAB) Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €64,90
PSU: Sea Sonic S12II-520Bronze 520W ATX 2.2 Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €56,85
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite schwarz (S210E-001) Preisvergleich | Geizhals Österreich €50,67
TOTAL: €458,51

There's one big problem here, and it's that this is without an OS, which will probably be another €75 or so. It's also without an optical drive, but that's easy to take out of your current desktop (personally, I don't have an optical drive, and when I need one, I just pull it from my cousin's desktop for a few minutes). The fact is, it's hard to get much lower than that without seriously sacrificing the long-term viability of the GPU (which isn't great to begin with). Once taxes and the OS are factored in, this is probably going to be about €550, I'd imagine. Going from Haswell (i3-4000) to Ivy bridge (i3-3000) only saves you MAYBE €10-15, which isn't worth it, IMO.

It's tough to get 3-4 years of high settings from this budget, really. My video card was $300 and the second-best you could get at the time when it came out, and it's going to end up being 4.5-5 years on its life, it's looking. However, the 650 Ti BOOST should be able to give you respectable performance if you're not going with a 1080p monitor or high settings. really, this is about as low as I'd take it without being concerned that the computer would end up being junk after 2 years, which is why I skipped the Blu-Ray drive (to get the bottom-end of the GPU in there).

 

[QwarkDreams]

Re: AMD vs Intel

No worries about taxes. In Austria and Germany prices displayed include taxes (as long as it doesn't say otherwise on the label), so ~550 would be the price with an OS.
But there's still an HDD missing. I can't use my current one since I'm going to install it in the desktop in the living room. So in the end it will sum up to about 600?.

I really appreciate your effort to create a system that fits my needs and budget, but 600? are just too much for me.
What's your opinion on desktops from the shelf? As far as I know the only downside with them is the weak GPU (just like in my current desktop), but the price is great (400?).
What do you think about those dekstops? One of my local stores has them every few months. They aren't excactly gaming-pcs (mostly i3-3xxx/4xxx and A10/8, rarely an i5-3xxx CPUs with onboard GPU).
Aldi-PCs 2013: Ein ?berblick aller Aldi-Computer von Medion
So my plan B would be to settle for one of these the next time they get one.
Or would you say they aren't worth the money?

 

[BIGPADDY]

No worries about taxes. In Austria and Germany prices displayed include taxes (as long as it doesn't say otherwise on the label), so ~550 would be the price with an OS.
But there's still an HDD missing. I can't use my current one since I'm going to install it in the desktop in the living room. So in the end it will sum up to about 600?.

I really appreciate your effort to create a system that fits my needs and budget, but 600? are just too much for me.
What's your opinion on desktops from the shelf? As far as I know the only downside with them is the weak GPU (just like in my current desktop), but the price is great (400?).
What do you think about those dekstops? One of my local stores has them every few months. They aren't excactly gaming-pcs (mostly i3-3xxx/4xxx and A10/8, rarely an i5-3xxx CPUs with onboard GPU).
Aldi-PCs 2013: Ein ?berblick aller Aldi-Computer von Medion
So my plan B would be to settle for one of these the next time they get one.
Or would you say they aren't worth the money?

I think there fine to go for however they have lots of bloatware to uninstall but that easily fixed.

My local PC world do sales on i5 PC that go between ?400 to ?500.

I would say check the stores for clearances you can always get a great computer for a low price.

Even ask the store for a lower price some will lower the cost down.

 

[BIGPADDY]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Take a visit to a chain of computer store as well for example in the UK it PC World.

 

[Keith Wallace]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Odds are, you're not going to get what you want with those pre-built machines. You're talking about putting your money into something you want to last a few years, but you're linking an all-in-one (which are allegedly a HUGE pain to self-repair) with Intel HD graphics, which are pretty terrible for gaming when they launch, let alone 4 years from now. Honestly, your best bet is to bite the bullet in the short term, and opt to keep the junker you have now. Save money until you can get something worth keeping. Otherwise, you're going to end up on a carousel of junk desktops every few years forever.

My thing is, if the alternative when the budget gets too high is to just buy a pre-built, I think you should legitimately consider just gutting your current one for the HDD and case. Really, if you wanted to go uber-cheap (and wanted to salvage that HDD for your other computer or whateveR), you could bust open one of your external HDDs and use that in the build as a short-term solution until you could spend the extra money on a permanent HDD. If you went that route and recycled the current desktop's case, you'd cut the 50 Euros out of the budget, add in the 80 or so for the OS, and you'd be around 480 Euros total.

The other option, which might be sketchy (since I don't know your PSU, primarily), would be to save your money, except for with the GPU. You could buy a GPU for your current desktop and then buy the other parts when you have the money for the full build. That'd give you some GPU muscle for now in that current desktop, and once you can afford the rest of the parts, pull the GPU back out and move it on to the new desktop.

But seriously, pre-built PCs aren't a way to save money. They don't sell for less than a self-built PC will, because they're charging you for those parts, plus the labor to assemble, plus the retailer's cut. If you're absolutely set on getting a new desktop not, but won't gut the old one, I think the alternative is an AMD Kaveri APU. The reason I don't care to recommend those is that they have no long-term value, like getting an all-in-one. The CPUs just aren't any good in those things, but the GPU can serve a purpose for a couple of years, most likely. However, any future move is going to probably mean a switch of board and CPU to Intel, plus the purchasing of a graphics card, where as going Intel+GPU would give you a PC you could probably keep to your liking for 3-5 years. The Kaveri, I wouldn't trust to keep you happy past 2 years, and I can't say I trust AMD to be viable when you'd upgrade next, since their releases are cloudy for the long-term.

 

[QwarkDreams]

Re: AMD vs Intel

I think there fine to go for however they have lots of bloatware to uninstall but that easily fixed.

My local PC world do sales on i5 PC that go between ?400 to ?500.

I would say check the stores for clearances you can always get a great computer for a low price.

Even ask the store for a lower price some will lower the cost down.

It's not very likely that stores give you a discount here in Austria, especially the big chains.
I took a look at their selection of desktops but they all are fairly pricey and not really satisfying (for example: i5-4440 CPU but only 4GB RAM and a pretty weak GT620 GPU but it still costs 500€/~411GBP). I don't see the point in buying one of those if I have still have to upgrade it because of weak parts.
It's always the same with those desktops in stores: they put in crappy GPUs and if you want a better one you end up paying 100-150€ more for the whole thing. So I'd rather buy the parts or a Medion from this one store.

The thing is I'm not really a fan of upgrading parts every year and spending. I don't like spending that much money on one thing just to keep it running and having old parts piling up in the corner.

 

[QwarkDreams]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Odds are, you're not going to get what you want with those pre-built machines. You're talking about putting your money into something you want to last a few years, but you're linking an all-in-one (which are allegedly a HUGE pain to self-repair) with Intel HD graphics, which are pretty terrible for gaming when they launch, let alone 4 years from now. Honestly, your best bet is to bite the bullet in the short term, and opt to keep the junker you have now. Save money until you can get something worth keeping. Otherwise, you're going to end up on a carousel of junk desktops every few years forever.

No, I didn't mean the All-in-one. You have to scroll down to get an overview of what modells they sold during 2013 in a store called "Aldi". I would never buy an All-in-one.

My thing is, if the alternative when the budget gets too high is to just buy a pre-built, I think you should legitimately consider just gutting your current one for the HDD and case. Really, if you wanted to go uber-cheap (and wanted to salvage that HDD for your other computer or whateveR), you could bust open one of your external HDDs and use that in the build as a short-term solution until you could spend the extra money on a permanent HDD. If you went that route and recycled the current desktop's case, you'd cut the 50 Euros out of the budget, add in the 80 or so for the OS, and you'd be around 480 Euros total.

The HDD from my current will go into the other PC in the living room because the original one broke and it's currently running with the OS installed on an external HDD in a docking station via eSATA. Once the internal is built in I'd mirror everything from the external and keep it connected for backups.
Sacrificing one of my external HDDs isn't really an option since one is for my backups and the other one is full with media (only under 200GB free of 1.5TB). I won't be able to avoid a new HDD.

The other option, which might be sketchy (since I don't know your PSU, primarily), would be to save your money, except for with the GPU. You could buy a GPU for your current desktop and then buy the other parts when you have the money for the full build. That'd give you some GPU muscle for now in that current desktop, and once you can afford the rest of the parts, pull the GPU back out and move it on to the new desktop.

But seriously, pre-built PCs aren't a way to save money. They don't sell for less than a self-built PC will, because they're charging you for those parts, plus the labor to assemble, plus the retailer's cut. If you're absolutely set on getting a new desktop not, but won't gut the old one, I think the alternative is an AMD Kaveri APU. The reason I don't care to recommend those is that they have no long-term value, like getting an all-in-one. The CPUs just aren't any good in those things, but the GPU can serve a purpose for a couple of years, most likely. However, any future move is going to probably mean a switch of board and CPU to Intel, plus the purchasing of a graphics card, where as going Intel+GPU would give you a PC you could probably keep to your liking for 3-5 years. The Kaveri, I wouldn't trust to keep you happy past 2 years, and I can't say I trust AMD to be viable when you'd upgrade next, since their releases are cloudy for the long-term.

I don't really like the idea of paying "Frankenstein's Monster" with my PC^^ I can't really explain why but I want to kinda close the case on this one and make a fresh start with a complete new one.
I don't I'd mind upgrading parts every now and then with a new PC but I don't want to spend money on my current one (oh yeah, I forgot to mention that only half of the USB ports in the backside is working) since it feels like only extending the date of expiration.

 

[QwarkDreams]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Well, while we're at it, I have a few other questions.

1. In case I build my own desktop, what difference does it make what motherboard size (ATX, micro-ATV, mini-ITX,...) besides I have to choose a compatible case and too make sure the other parts fit in (GPU, fans, cable management so the air can circulate ,...)?
3. What's the difference between boxed and tray with CPUs?
5. Do all parts -as long as they fit together - work fine together or are there any preferances regarding certain combinations of brands (like Intel + Nvidia)? (also RAM, motherboards, ...)
7. Does it matter if I have 1x8GB or 2x4GB of RAM?
9. How many fans and passive-coolers do I need? And is liquid cooling better? (what about the safety of liquig cooling?)
11. Is it better to have a PSU with more than enough wattage or should it have just enough (like 30-50W more than needed under peak-performance)
13. How many slots, ports,... do I need on a motherboard? Is it better to have more or just as many as I'm using?

 

[SAM 77]

Re: AMD vs Intel

1. The bigger the mobo(ATX) and case the easier it will be to install components.
2. Boxed is retail(consumers) and tray is for manufacturers(HP,Dell etc)
3. the motherboard you choose will/should have a list of qualified ram tested to work with board from the manufacturer. This is usually in documentation with mobo or on the mobo website support page
4. 2x4 is better than 1x8
2x8 is better than 4x4
5 Liquid cooling is better but I still use fans.
6. More wattage is better but you dont have to go crazy. There is a "PSU calculator" online just type into bing/google
7. Most mid range mobos will have more than enough slots/ports for you.

 

[Keith Wallace]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Well, while we're at it, I have a few other questions.

1. In case I build my own desktop, what difference does it make what motherboard size (ATX, micro-ATV, mini-ITX,...) besides I have to choose a compatible case and too make sure the other parts fit in (GPU, fans, cable management so the air can circulate ,...)?
2. What's the difference between boxed and tray with CPUs?
3. Do all parts -as long as they fit together - work fine together or are there any preferances regarding certain combinations of brands (like Intel + Nvidia)? (also RAM, motherboards, ...)
4. Does it matter if I have 1x8GB or 2x4GB of RAM?
5. How many fans and passive-coolers do I need? And is liquid cooling better? (what about the safety of liquig cooling?)
6. Is it better to have a PSU with more than enough wattage or should it have just enough (like 30-50W more than needed under peak-performance)
7. How many slots, ports,... do I need on a motherboard? Is it better to have more or just as many as I'm using?

1. The motherboard size will not necessarily matter TOO much. Personally, I don't care for micro-ATX or mini-ITX. ITX will usually only have 2 RAM slots, which can be limiting long-term (though it's unlikely you'd need more than the maximum of 16 GB of RAM before you got a new board). I'm also not sure if there would be an issue putting a mini-ITX board in an ATX Mid Tower case because I've personally never looked into them. So I'd say micro-ATX would be OK (the one I initially recommended is micro-ATX), but the full ATX board will usually have some extra stuff like fewer SATA or PCIe slots (none of which would matter for you). So if the micro-ATX will save you enough to build a machine, definitely pick it.

2. As was mentioned, the first is consumer, the second is manufacturer.

3. For the most part, you'd be fine. Especially in the case with a budget build, you're unlikely to find something wacky that won't work. The main thing is to make sure that your CPU and motherboard are the same socket (in the Intel Haswell case, Socket 1150). You'd be getting 240-pin DDR3-1600 RAM, which I've yet to see unsupported by any modern motherboard. SATA is SATA for HDDs as well. The only possible concern, I think, would be if you got an aftermarket cooler and it was too big for the case, but your build wouldn't need an aftermarket cooler, so no need to worry. If you went with a micro-ATX or mini-ITX case, you might have issues with space for the GPU, so maybe watch for that.

4. It probably depends on the longevity of the PC. Also, it depends on the number of RAM slots of the board you choose. If you went with a board with only 2 RAM slots, then got the 2x4 GB kit of RAM, you won't have the option of expanding your RAM later--you'd have to buy a new kit. If you got just 1 8-GB stick, you would have the future option of buying a second, identical stick to pair with it (and make sure you're getting identical sticks if you do that). So my recommendation is if your chosen board has 2 RAM slots, go with 1x8. If it have 4 slots, go with 2x4 (because you can upgrade to 4x4, and I don't see anyone needing more than 16 GB of RAM in the next 5 years).

5. I survived with my previous build in a single-fan case (though the door was off). In fact, that thing is still running in the next room in that same setup. You don't need liquid unless you're doing a major overclock on a CPU (and you can't overclock an i3), so don't even worry about liquid. For this build, stock coolers for both the CPU and case will be fine. It depends on the airflow of the case you get, but a single-fan case can be fine for lower-end builds. Personally, I 5 fans in my current case, but I doubt you'd benefit from more than 3 on an i3 build. So 1 would probably get it done (and you can take the side door off if it doesn't), while I think anything beyond 3 would be useless.

6. Again, this is a bit about the longevity of the PC. If you just plug all of your parts into the PC Part Picker site, they'll give you an estimated wattage. I'd definitely aim a bit above that number though, because they seem to underestimate load GPU wattage, I think. But again, it's mostly based on the long-term plans of the PC. If you want to upgrade it in the future, you'll want to have enough wattage to cover upgrade (such as a GPU that uses more power), but if this isn't a long-term build, just having enough for the initial parts is fine. I'd say that 500W is the floor for a PSU, in my opinion. I am just not sure I'd trust less, but I'm probably more paranoid about that than I need to be.

7. The number of RAM slots will probably be 4 (it might be that only mini-ITX does 2 slots). The number of USB headers needed will depend on he case (my case needed 2 USB 2.0 headers and 1 USB 3.0 header). Each header will power two case ports, so that's just 50% of the USB ports = headers needed. You'll need a SATA port for the HDD and another for an optical drive (if you want it). It's really unlikely you lack motherboard slots for anything, unless you were to get a case with USB 3.0 ports on it, but got a board with no USB 3.0 header. However, you'll have to tally the number of USB devices you want connected at once (I personally have mouse, keyboard, controller, headset at all times, and will sometimes connect an external HDD and/or phone via USB, so 6 is the number of slots I wanted on the front of my case).

Sorry for getting wordy, and for possibly being confusing with any responses, haha.

 

[Keith Wallace]

Re: AMD vs Intel

I don't really like the idea of paying "Frankenstein's Monster" with my PC^^ I can't really explain why but I want to kinda close the case on this one and make a fresh start with a complete new one.
I don't I'd mind upgrading parts every now and then with a new PC but I don't want to spend money on my current one (oh yeah, I forgot to mention that only half of the USB ports in the backside is working) since it feels like only extending the date of expiration.

Oh, I understand completely.

However, the GPU upgrade now isn't really that, in my opinion. You just get your new GPU now for games, then save up for the rest of the parts. Don't think of it as spending for this PC, think of it as incrementally purchasing parts for the new one. You'd still use the purchased GPU in the new build, but you could also use it now to handle poorly-running games. I mostly suggest this because I imagine you want things running better now, but you don't quite have the budget to get a long-term machine together at the moment. Since I'm not sure how long it would be before you did have the money, I just offered the best short-term solution. If you're talking 6 months or less until you could afford the build, and this PC is running your games well-enough for you, then not getting the GPU now is certainly on the table (as prices on better GPUs will drop as time passes, meaning if you wait 6 months to build, you could probably upgrade that 650 Ti BOOST to a 750 Ti BOOST or something).

 

[Awhispersecho]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Based in your use, I would strongly recommend an AMD A-10 APU. My uses are similar to yours and I have used an AMD A10 laptop for about 15 months now. Up until last week actually. Plenty fast for internet, watching movies and doing some decent gaming.

I am able to play something like Starcraft 2 at high settings over 35 fps. The current A10's are better than what I have so it should be fine for what you want. Unless you are into video editing and things like that, an AMD will be great.

 

[QwarkDreams]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Thanks for the detailed answers!

I only play a few games and none of them has really high system requirements (Diablo 3 is likely the one with the highest, being a Intel Core 2 Duo @2.6GHz, 2GB RAM and a nVidia GeForce GTX 260 / ATI Radeon HD 4870 GPU the recommended requirements). I could play some newer games but it's my GPU that wouldn't let me (256mb is just not enough). I only had a few situations where this turned out to be a problem (even in games with low GPU requirements like WoW or Diablo 3; the screen would display lines and squares in different colors. Most times it was due to the settings being too high or a loose GPU fan cable -_-).

It might sound lazy and decatent but right now I'm at the point where I rather get a new PC than dealing with all the problems. For some issues there might not even be a solution anymore (talking software). For example, Adobe seems to have stopped supporting Vista. I get the notification that there I need to update Flashplayer but when I go to the page the link that should initiate the download just leads me back to the home page of Adobe. On my Win 7 netbook it works just fine :-/ Or like Firefox freezes up from time to time (meaning a few times an hour). Not responding for half a minute and then it works fine again.

So right now it depends on my budget when and what I will buy. Hopefully it will be enough for a decent system where I only need to add a GPU and another bar of RAM this year. And maybe an SSD as main drive (OS and most important programs).

But thanks to you guys I feel confident enough in my knowledge to create a functioning(!!!) desktop^^

 

[QwarkDreams]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Based in your use, I would strongly recommend an AMD A-10 APU. My uses are similar to yours and I have used an AMD A10 laptop for about 15 months now. Up until last week actually. Plenty fast for internet, watching movies and doing some decent gaming.

I am able to play something like Starcraft 2 at high settings over 35 fps. The current A10's are better than what I have so it should be fine for what you want. Unless you are into video editing and things like that, an AMD will be great.

What happened last week? Did you buy a new one?

 

[etad putta]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Intel processor, Gigabyte motherboard, build a hackintosh and dual boot windows and OSX. Sooo easy these days.

 

[QwarkDreams]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Intel processor, Gigabyte motherboard, build a hackintosh and dual boot windows and OSX. Sooo easy these days.

I don't really see myself using Mac OS. Plus, I don't even know what tasks specifically I should use is.

 

[Jarip]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Pentium (Haswell) is surprising good too and you can upgrade it later, if you like ... do not let "Pentium" name fool you, it is new haswell CPU ...

Intel Pentium G3420, 2x 3.20GHz, boxed (BX80646G3420) Preisvergleich | Geizhals ?–sterreich

I just build a Computer with Pentium (Haswell) and Kingston SSD - it feels snappier as my i5 4570S with Samsung EVO SSD ... but for VTx emulations, you will need that i5 (like Visual Studio Express) ... yeah, it is all depending on what you will do and about your budget too

EDIT: Intel Pentium G3420 has VTx (virtualization for emulations) too ... just my mistake, I did not expect that ...

 

[radmanvr]

Re: AMD vs Intel

The best way to find out what is right for you is first identify your budget. Next, what are you planning on doing? You have chosen gaming, great! Now we can proceed to the next step. Do you want medium, high or ultra graphics? Do you want to play at 720p 30FPS, 720p 60FPS, 1080p 30FPS or 1080p 60FPS or are you planning on going higher like 2160p @ 120 FPS. Ok I must say there is a lot of debate on wether120p is worth it or not considering a lot of studies say after 87FPS we as a human cannot see the rest but if you're all about boasting your specs you can go to 120FPS.

Once you have Identified which one of these routes you are going to take you can pretty much decide on Intel or AMD. Good luck.

Just so you know I play Skyrim on 1440p @ 60FPS on High grapics. Ultra will put be at about 20 ish FPS but can play on 1080p @ 60 FPS on Ultra and I have a $500 computer using AMD Chipset and AMD GPU. The reason I use Skyrim is because its my most demanding PC game at the moment. I do not play Battle Rising Duty or whatever that popular game is.

 

[Keith Wallace]

Re: AMD vs Intel

Intel processor, Gigabyte motherboard, build a hackintosh and dual boot windows and OSX. Sooo easy these days.

Why would you even bother with OSX, really?

Also, Gigabyte's iffy for me. They seem to be the motherboard manufacturer that is most hit-and-miss, from what I read from others. Plenty of folks wear by them, but plenty say they've had nothing but bad times. ASUS and ASRock seem like the two with the fewest complaints, in my experience. MSI's a bit iffy, but I'm biased against them because my dad talks about how he won't buy from them because they screwed him (and a bunch of other folks) a decade ago, haha.