Player Piano
New member
Wait, you are comparing baseball to tech and call that logic? While I agree with the statistics, but this has a better chance at success than another Windows/Andromeda device.
Andromeda Cancelled?!? Nooooo!!!!!!
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Wait, you are comparing baseball to tech and call that logic? While I agree with the statistics, but this has a better chance at success than another Windows/Andromeda device.
naddy6969
New member
"Still leaves a gaping hole in MS' mobile strategy though..."
What exactly IS Microsoft's alleged "mobile strategy"? They have no mobile OS. They have no mobile hardware. They have a few apps running on iOS and Android. You know, actual MOBILE OSes and hardware.
We are now in the middle of 2018. Start of fiscal 2019 for many companies. That MS is STILL thrashing about, trying to come up with a viable "mobile strategy" at this very late date is both sad and absurd.
What exactly IS Microsoft's alleged "mobile strategy"? They have no mobile OS. They have no mobile hardware. They have a few apps running on iOS and Android. You know, actual MOBILE OSes and hardware.
We are now in the middle of 2018. Start of fiscal 2019 for many companies. That MS is STILL thrashing about, trying to come up with a viable "mobile strategy" at this very late date is both sad and absurd.
fatclue_98
Retired Moderator
Logic and tech have no business being in the same sentence. Besides, I never mentioned logic. I know better.
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Player Piano
New member
Fair enough. I was trying to follow your logic, I wasn't accusing you of logic or mentioning logic.
The more I think about this, the less likely it seems that MS is going to cancel, or even indefinitely delay a dual screen mobile device.
If we break the story down into its two parts, one part could lead to a possible, short-term delay, while the other part (that could lead to a product cancellation) just doesn't stack up at all.
1. MS don't believe the Andromeda components are ready for launch in Redstone 5 and are delaying a launch until software/performance quality improves
Ok, that one I get, and actually agree with. The OS needs to be as close to perfect as possible. We don't want another half-baked Windows10 Mobile launch. And besides, a 6 month delay will help to get more PWA's on board.
2. Microsoft can't find a compelling reason to launch the device
Now that one makes no sense at all, and there are numerous reasons why...
Firstly, we know for a fact that almost every hardware maker is working on the dual-screen technology. A quick web search reveals that Apple, Samsung, LG, Motorola, Dell, Lenovo, Asus, HP and even Intel are filing patents and building prototypes of dual screen devices.
They're not doing this on the fly. This isn't just the whim of a couple of bored engineers, killing time in the lab because they have nothing else to focus on. These companies are going hell-for-leather to bring these devices to market, because they know a market exists for them.
Every one of these large and well-respected firms has identified dual-screen mobile technology as a thing that's going to happen because their customers want it. Are we honestly going to believe that Microsoft is working with totally different market research, that tells them dual-screen technology isn't a thing? Very, very unlikely.
Secondly, we have a tonne of evidence that points to Andromeda, but for me the most promising is the June 27 tweet from walking cat (https://twitter.com/h0x0d) where he shows the actual screen code that's being written into Windows 10. This goes beyond device renders, cryptic tweets from Panos and internal email leaks. This is actual reference in the WindowsUI that supports a hinged, closed, flat and conclave device. People, that's Andromeda.
Thirdly, this was signed off by Satya. He blessed it. To be clear, every single device that he's canned so far was blessed by Balmer, so in killing those devices he could argue Ballmer misinterpreted the market and now it's up to Satya to fix it. But this time round it's different.
If he kills Andromeda, he's essentially saying "I screwed up. Sorry for wasting everyones time and money. Sorry I wasn't able to come up with a new device strategy. Sorry that W10 won't reach full capacity because we have no workable way back into mobile. Sorry."
Honestly, I can't see him killing his own baby.
Lastly, it's mobile. We all know MS need a place in that market. Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus...they all need a place in that market. Microsoft have worked hard to bring Qualcomm to the table to develop a mobile chip that works well with Windows 10. If MS step off of this, every other OEM will do the same, and they'll be stuck making laptops in a dwindling market. They all know the importance of this.
It would be bizarre in the extreme if they all collectively decided on Monday that dual screen technology is no longer a thing.
And they're all looking to Microsoft to build the software and create a hardware template for them to follow.
This device is happening. There's no way it isn't.
If we break the story down into its two parts, one part could lead to a possible, short-term delay, while the other part (that could lead to a product cancellation) just doesn't stack up at all.
1. MS don't believe the Andromeda components are ready for launch in Redstone 5 and are delaying a launch until software/performance quality improves
Ok, that one I get, and actually agree with. The OS needs to be as close to perfect as possible. We don't want another half-baked Windows10 Mobile launch. And besides, a 6 month delay will help to get more PWA's on board.
2. Microsoft can't find a compelling reason to launch the device
Now that one makes no sense at all, and there are numerous reasons why...
Firstly, we know for a fact that almost every hardware maker is working on the dual-screen technology. A quick web search reveals that Apple, Samsung, LG, Motorola, Dell, Lenovo, Asus, HP and even Intel are filing patents and building prototypes of dual screen devices.
They're not doing this on the fly. This isn't just the whim of a couple of bored engineers, killing time in the lab because they have nothing else to focus on. These companies are going hell-for-leather to bring these devices to market, because they know a market exists for them.
Every one of these large and well-respected firms has identified dual-screen mobile technology as a thing that's going to happen because their customers want it. Are we honestly going to believe that Microsoft is working with totally different market research, that tells them dual-screen technology isn't a thing? Very, very unlikely.
Secondly, we have a tonne of evidence that points to Andromeda, but for me the most promising is the June 27 tweet from walking cat (https://twitter.com/h0x0d) where he shows the actual screen code that's being written into Windows 10. This goes beyond device renders, cryptic tweets from Panos and internal email leaks. This is actual reference in the WindowsUI that supports a hinged, closed, flat and conclave device. People, that's Andromeda.
Thirdly, this was signed off by Satya. He blessed it. To be clear, every single device that he's canned so far was blessed by Balmer, so in killing those devices he could argue Ballmer misinterpreted the market and now it's up to Satya to fix it. But this time round it's different.
If he kills Andromeda, he's essentially saying "I screwed up. Sorry for wasting everyones time and money. Sorry I wasn't able to come up with a new device strategy. Sorry that W10 won't reach full capacity because we have no workable way back into mobile. Sorry."
Honestly, I can't see him killing his own baby.
Lastly, it's mobile. We all know MS need a place in that market. Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus...they all need a place in that market. Microsoft have worked hard to bring Qualcomm to the table to develop a mobile chip that works well with Windows 10. If MS step off of this, every other OEM will do the same, and they'll be stuck making laptops in a dwindling market. They all know the importance of this.
It would be bizarre in the extreme if they all collectively decided on Monday that dual screen technology is no longer a thing.
And they're all looking to Microsoft to build the software and create a hardware template for them to follow.
This device is happening. There's no way it isn't.
Pretty much my assessment, Other industry partners OEMs, software developers are involved. Cancellation at this point would result in lawsuits
Ryujingt3
New member
I don't want Andromeda to be dead, but this is MS and we all know they like to cancel things people actually care about.
Being first to the market with a dual screen device will be huge. If they wait until after Samsung, it's going to be too late.
If they cancel this, they'll quite literally cancel themselves out of relevancy for the next 5 years, unless they think hololens is actually the future and expect us all to ditch our handsets for headsets...which, incidently, I'd do if hololens got a little cheaper and could make calls
It's not the dual screens that will make or break Andromeda, it's the fact that you can run the software you run at work on a device that fits in your pocket. Dual screen Android phones have been done.
It's starting to feel like this is something third parties will have to bear the torch on. I mean look at what
Intel and Asus showed at Computex. It's pretty clear they all also have an inkling that this is a device category that has some potential merit. No one seems to know exactly in what specific way or form factor though. Asus' Project Precog looked the best IMO but... It's pretty clear from Intel's lack of commitment and MS' possible Andromeda cancellation that no one wants to be the first to market with this. It is obviously a risk.
It's a shame either way. I want to buy into a MS mobile solution but Between W10M and this... The blows are starting to sting. Even if third parties do try to take up the mantle here I'm not sure I'd want their solution since half the time experimental form factors from third-parties get dropped like hot garbage
Intel and Asus showed at Computex. It's pretty clear they all also have an inkling that this is a device category that has some potential merit. No one seems to know exactly in what specific way or form factor though. Asus' Project Precog looked the best IMO but... It's pretty clear from Intel's lack of commitment and MS' possible Andromeda cancellation that no one wants to be the first to market with this. It is obviously a risk.
It's a shame either way. I want to buy into a MS mobile solution but Between W10M and this... The blows are starting to sting. Even if third parties do try to take up the mantle here I'm not sure I'd want their solution since half the time experimental form factors from third-parties get dropped like hot garbage
fatclue_98
Retired Moderator
nate0
New member
They are already late. ZTE came with the first but certainly not the last. Even though it looks like a high end Nintendo DS it is still an intriguing first go at it. Huawei or Samsung maybe the next in line though...
mtf1380
Active member
I'm sure MS did a hands-on and read some of the few negative reviews for the ZTE Axon M and decided to make some tweaks before a release. One thing I don't like on the ZTE is that one side is thicker than the other (and it's an Android).
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TechFreak1
Moderator
Ryujingt3
New member
Let's face it, software is important and that's also the biggest issue with any mobile product MS choose to make and release. They just don't have the app supported needed to survive. They could make the most beautiful looking and most powerful mobile device on the planet (like with the Xbox One X) but if Joe Consumer can't play Pokemon Go on it or use Snapchat then it's destined to just die a slow and painful death. The app gap is very, very real and shows no signs of abating anytime soon.
Meanwhile, Samsung and Apple already know this, and they do have the software that Joe Consumer wants, so when they release their dual-screen mobile device it'll be heralded as the second coming, whilst MS and MS fans keep telling themselves that they really didn't need to be in the mobile space anyway.
Meanwhile, Samsung and Apple already know this, and they do have the software that Joe Consumer wants, so when they release their dual-screen mobile device it'll be heralded as the second coming, whilst MS and MS fans keep telling themselves that they really didn't need to be in the mobile space anyway.
fatclue_98
Retired Moderator
Except that Andromeda isn't going to be Windows Mobile. It will be a "mobile" device in the sense that you can take it with you but it's going to be WoA. Windows Mobile is dead for all intents and purposes. A small, pocketable PC that makes phone calls and sends texts is the way forward. Android and iOS don't have an answer for that which is what separates Andromeda from the herd.
Sent from my HP Elite x3 on mTalk
Ryujingt3
New member
This may be all well and true but in the consumers eyes, which is what really matters, it's always going to be Windows Mobile, no matter how MS market it. That is, if they bother to even market it to begin with. By the way, the Elite X3 is a great phone. One of the best I ever had. Enjoy.
etphoto
New member
Brad Sams on his just released podcast said he is hearing the same thing as Mary Jo. That its at least delayed and might be cancelled. Depressing.
Sent from mTalk
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We have no idea what the way forward is. You may be right or you may be wrong. It also just may be a niche for certain business uses.
As far as Android and iOS not having an answer, I would wait and see before making a claim like that. Heck, it might even be someone we haven’t heard of before.
I’ve had a long stressful week. All I know for sure is I’m going to relax this weekend as much as I can and rejuvenate myself. That’s a claim I can back up!
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