Can Microsoft Ever Recover? Windows 8, Windows Phone, Xbox One, Surface, etc.

[dkediger]

Potentially MS might provide the most compelling platform, but the devil is in the details as always. When I look at modern GUIs, Chrome OS is flat out better than Windows 8.1. You can bet that consumers look at Chrome OS and think "yeah that's sort of like Windows desktop that I'm used to but with excellent Google services". That's the rub isn't it? Google consumer services are flat out better than anything else on the planet:

Search, Maps, Youtube, Mail.

These are all best-in-class that everyone uses if they act objectively and not as an MS ******. Why would you deliberately use worse Bing search, maps and Outlook.com except to be a ******? Believe me I really like Outlook.com GUI compared to Gmail, but the implementation is fundamentally flawed for me and so it remains a secondary account. Bing search results are still a joke compared to Google and Maps are equally worse, especially when you look at POI data and lack of street view.

.....You can bet that consumers look at Chrome OS and think "yeah that's sort of like Windows desktop that I'm used to but with excellent Google services". That's the rub isn't it? Google consumer services are flat out better than anything else on the planet:....

Maps are equally worse, especially when you look at POI data and lack of street view.

Maps is a valid point, but its best feature is its a standalone product.

I've had zero interest in anyone in my org asking for a Chromebook, either for work or in their at home use. People ask us about iPads for home all the time, Chrome zilch.

We had mass revolt when we switched our mail to Google Apps several years ago. The switch was driven by moving away from Blackberry/BES/Exchange to iPhones. People loved getting mail on their iPhones, but hated the desktop GMail interface. So much so, we returned to desktop mail clients like Outlook and more recently eMclient. None of the other services are used, based in large part on experience with the GMail UI. Nobody wants to try - its too distracting from regular work.

The good news/bad news aspect of mobility - which is what the discussion is really about: devices and services- is its the proverbial 80/20 conundrum. You find you can do 80% or work away from a traditional desktop. But you also can't do 20% of your work away from a traditional desktop.

The literally billion dollar question is whether the value of that necessary 20% justifies the cost of multiple devices. Because it mos def is NOT a linear proposition on the expense side for acquiring and supporting the extra devices.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

Potentially MS might provide the most compelling platform, but the devil is in the details as always. When I look at modern GUIs, Chrome OS is flat out better than Windows 8.1. You can bet that consumers look at Chrome OS and think "yeah that's sort of like Windows desktop that I'm used to but with excellent Google services". That's the rub isn't it? Google consumer services are flat out better than anything else on the planet:

Search, Maps, Youtube, Mail.

These are all best-in-class that everyone uses if they act objectively and not as an MS ******. Why would you deliberately use worse Bing search, maps and Outlook.com except to be a ******? Believe me I really like Outlook.com GUI compared to Gmail, but the implementation is fundamentally flawed for me and so it remains a secondary account. Bing search results are still a joke compared to Google and Maps are equally worse, especially when you look at POI data and lack of street view.

Google search isn't better, really. Not worse either.
Nokia maps are way better where I'm at.
I use Outlook.com because it is a better service to me. It's just better at blocking spam.
YouTube is good, I just wish it hadn't started going downhill in terms of performance lately.

And to say anyone who disagrees with you is a ******? Poor form, dude.

 

[radmanvr]

I hate to say it but Microsoft literally has no future. They came late in everything and people have set themselves in Google and apple ecosystems, hell they don't even want to look at a different OS. Only a miracle like a great marketing technique or if Apple or Google do something very very stupid can only save Microsoft. As far as financials are concerned, Microsoft will continue to rise, they have a hell lot more resources than we think. Thnx to the person who opened this thread, really interesting topic.

Yeah I am not quite sure what you mean by here considering they just announced their earnings for Q3 and it was all positive. Do you mean like Microsoft is not a vampire and thus cannot live for 1000+ years so therefore they have no future? Because I think that is what you mean,

I was heavily invested in Google before I swapped to WP ecosystem. I spent over $50 in apps for Google play store. I know $50 is not much but there are people who do not mind switching if switching is good.

And to the OP I don't know why you think Microsoft "needs to recover" they aren't in a position where they "need to recover"

They are not the king like they use to but that doesn't mean they "need to recover" every time a new platform comes out they always call it the Microsoft killer but its never the Microsoft killer. Kind of reminds me when a new mmo game that comes out they call it the WoW killer but Blizzard still going strong.

 

[EMINENT 1]

At this point, it's just a matter of time. I think once universal apps are abundant, people will begin to see the value in the whole ecosystem.
They're already on the way.
MS needs to unify RT and Phone asap.
Intel and the Surface team must execute with fanless Broadwell with gen 3 and MS needs to deliver a slam dunk of a mobile phone that's unified to do this.

When this happens, the share will grow. They've got the foundation, now they just need to execute quickly.

 

[Tepid]

The problem with all the perception of MS not doing well is due to what I love to call Pseudo Tech-Jurnos who:

1) never used any of these devices
2) used them for like 5 min and couldn't get the concept and wanted to compare it to Android and iOS but couldn't take the time to be honest
and puked up a bunch of garbage.
3) Used them, but can't be swayed away from their favorite device and felt the need (again to not be honest) slam MS for the sake of slamming MS.

While Windows 8.1 seems clunky, it's not, it's called different, and it's not bad.
It actually is easier to do anything on the system over all, if you take the time to actually learn how to use it, instead of finding reasons to hate it.
Anyone can find any reason to hate anything, that's not hard to do.

I hate Google, but I have reasons to hate google and they have nothing to do with MS, or liking MS. So I will never own an Android if I can at all ever help it.
I don't hate Apple, but I dislike them, their philosophy, their proprietary noncompetitive nature, and their pseudo-intellectual elite consumers.

People love to call MS closed source and noncompetitive, no no no, that's Apple all the way, and always, always , always has been, far more than MS ever has.

I tell people, MS devices are spot on and pretty damn near rock solid.
Windows 8.x is a very solid OS as is. I am hoping for improvements, but who doesn't on any OS?
WP8.1 is finally a mature, very highly competitive smartphone
Surface Tablets and other Windows 8.x Tablets are solid devices, and the Pro Tablets are fantastic

People need to take their blinders off and realize who has more to offer, and right now, MS has the most to offer in the biggest way, and only getting better. For Now.
We will see what happens 5 or 10 years from now,, that could and probably will be a different story.

but Today, to dismiss MS over all is just plain stupid.

 

[k0de]

According to imore Apple Q2 2014 were 43.7 million iPhones, 16.3 million ipads, 4.1 million Macs. Quaerty revenue was 45.6 billion. Net profit was 10.2 billion.

Impressive but.

According to WPcentral MSFT Q3 revenue were 20.4 billion gross, 14.5 billion gross profit with an operating cost of 7.0 billion.

Also impressive. Here clearly Apple is the winner. Lol

Apple stands alone and their earnings stop at Apple. Unlike Apple MSFT like the United States of America has alias and they are called OEM's.

Looking at MSFT numbers comparing to Apples head to head yes Apple is the winner.

Lol, but the problem is there is thousands of OEM's using MSFT products and services. Their combine earnings along with MSFT earnings make this Apple progress look like chomp chain, .

MSFT is not going anywhere for a while.

 

[ajayden]

According to imore Apple Q2 2014 were 43.7 million iPhones, 16.3 million ipads, 4.1 million Macs. Quaerty revenue was 45.6 billion. Net profit was 10.2 billion.

Impressive but.

According to WPcentral MSFT Q3 revenue were 20.4 billion gross, 14.5 billion gross profit with an operating cost of 7.0 billion.

Also impressive. Here clearly Apple is the winner. Lol

Apple stands alone and their earnings stop at Apple. Unlike Apple MSFT like the United States of America has alias and they are called OEM's.

Looking at MSFT numbers comparing to Apples head to head yes Apple is the winner.

Lol, but the problem is there is thousands of OEM's using MSFT products and services. Their combine earnings along with MSFT earnings make this Apple progress look like chomp chain, .

MSFT is not going anywhere for a while.

Lol you are spot on with the numbers but when you see the percentages there is a difference.

Apple : Quarterly revenue was 45.6 billion. Net profit was 10.2 billion. Which is 22.36% profit out of the total revenue.

Microsoft : Quarterly revenue were 20.4 billion gross, 14.5 billion gross profit. Which is 71.07% profit out of the total revenue.

Apple is selling more to get lesser % of profit compared to Microsoft.

 

[ajj3085]

My point is, the seed that initiates the process of creating a multi-platform environment in the enterprise is already sowed and the process can't be stopped. There are economic incentives that move in that direction, there also a lot of problems to solve, for example the productivity of cross platform development tools the manageability of devices, security, but those problems will be solved.

I'm sorry, but there are no economic incentives to supporting BYOD or multiple platforms except in a few distinct cases. It is inherently more expensive to support the same application on multiple platforms than it is on one. And HTML5 "apps" are garbage, and again more expensive to build than a native app for one OS. Gdocs might be good for ultra basic office apps, but there are many more cases than you seem to realize which require more than basic. Add in the fact that you need to be online in most cases, its not as good as you portray. Having used gdocs for a while, id much rather stick with office, including Outlook.

 

[k0de]

Lol you are spot on with the numbers but when you see the percentages there is a difference.

Apple : Quarterly revenue was 45.6 billion. Net profit was 10.2 billion. Which is 22.36% profit out of the total revenue.

Microsoft : Quarterly revenue were 20.4 billion gross, 14.5 billion gross profit. Which is 71.07% profit out of the total revenue.

Apple is selling more to get lesser % of profit compared to Microsoft.

Agree. We are eye to eye. Lol
MSFT has nothing to worry about. And net is awesome for MSFT this quarter. We see this but the rest of the tech world doesn't.

It is like Apple is acting like an illegal contractor that gets more work for less. Doing more for less. Not good.

MSFT numbers looking good. And that does not include OEM's. Lol

I'll say it again. Combine MSFT numbers with all OEM's alias numbers and Apple progress is nothing but chomp change. Lol

 

[k0de]

Windows 8 alone sold over 200 million licenses. Wow that's lots of OEM's. You get my drift.

What about the rest of other MSFT Products? For short Windows 8.1 is now free to all devices below 9" inches. That will impact the WP store and Windows RT store drastically. Just ride the wave and watch MSFT blow past the competition. The year speculated was 2017. Enjoy and ride the wave.

 

[Tepid]

I'm sorry, but there are no economic incentives to supporting BYOD or multiple platforms except in a few distinct cases. It is inherently more expensive to support the same application on multiple platforms than it is on one. And HTML5 "apps" are garbage, and again more expensive to build than a native app for one OS. Gdocs might be good for ultra basic office apps, but there are many more cases than you seem to realize which require more than basic. Add in the fact that you need to be online in most cases, its not as good as you portray. Having used gdocs for a while, id much rather stick with office, including Outlook.

Actually, you are quite wrong about BYOD.
Many people and enterprises are moving this direction and VDI (Virtual Desktop Infrastructure).
Yes, you must have an internet connection, but we do live in 2014, where there is WiFi or Free WiFi almost everywhere.
The only place anymore that may have no WiFi is the boonies, but if you can get Cell Service, chances are you can tether.
Those are now, the extreme cases. Lack of internet these days is practically non-existent. Someone close by is providing Free WiFi access,
or a Hotel Business Center is providing Business class internet for a fee.

BYOD in the Enterprise takes a huge load off of IT in general.
It's going to put some of us out, and shrink the IT dept's in a big way going forward.

Once Office 365 takes hold and gets some ground. It's the best option at this time for most households and many small businesses and enterprises.
not to mention the cross platform apps for Windows, Unified Code with Optimized GUI per device across all MS devices, including xBox.

As for Office 365,, it does not require any internet connection unless you want to sync/upload/save to OneDrive or elsewhere.
It is a full install on the local PC.
Then there is access to Office On-Line, which is pretty much full featured Office.

There is a future here, and people are still asleep to what MS is creating, or they are listening to the Pseudo-Tech-Jurnos and No Nothing Pseudo-Experts.

Pay Attention folks, MS is getting better, more unified, and more usable every day.

One code across all MS devices means less dev time, easier support and updating/upgrading.
If MS can pull this off and get Proper Recognition for it, honest reviews that aren't just paid Adverts for Apple and Google in the process
(Yeah, trust me, Many so called Reviews and Tech Articles on other sites are just that,, Paid for Adverts to take a swipe at one piece of hardware/software/app and glorify the other.)

 

[anony_mouse]

Lol you are spot on with the numbers but when you see the percentages there is a difference.

Apple : Quarterly revenue was 45.6 billion. Net profit was 10.2 billion. Which is 22.36% profit out of the total revenue.

Microsoft : Quarterly revenue were 20.4 billion gross, 14.5 billion gross profit. Which is 71.07% profit out of the total revenue.

Apple is selling more to get lesser % of profit compared to Microsoft.

I haven't checked these numbers independently, but assuming they are correct, there is one very clear conclusion...
Microsoft products are MASSIVELY MASSIVELY overpriced.

You might think the iPhone is expensive, but in comparison, it's nothing. I suggest that we ALL boycott ALL Microsoft products until they reduce the prices by at least 50%. That will still leave them with an acceptable profit.

 

[rodan01]

Microsoft makes a lot of money from legacy technology, Nokia sells millions legacy phones. The problem is not revenue today, the problem is in 5 years more when those legacy technologies will be replaced by the new technologies, that's why Microsoft has a problem. They understand it well, the CEO repeats the mantra "cloud first, mobile first" all the time because that's the future, even though Microsoft is irrelevant in both, so with the current trajectory Microsoft will be irrelevant in the future.

Today Kantar's data shows bad numbers for WP, previous reports indicate that the tablet sales are even worst, Azure is growing slowly for its size. It's the darkest hour, but maybe from the bottom the recovery starts.

 

[Robinsonmac]

MS Better have something really big planned

With MS new devices division just posting a $452 million dollar loss & 30% drop in sales, MS better have a hell of a plan for 2014. They need a a new low end device that competes with the now better low end Android devices. It seems Nokias good low end sales only lasted a couple of quaters. The Android makers stepped up their line up and heavily discounted old flagship models to compete in the 520, 620 & 720 markets. The Moto G is a good example. They really need to break into the Chinese & US market some how. Hopefully with the new Chinese & Indian OEM's they can make headway. In the US they have to stream line the handset lineup to 3 models plus 1 niche product( like the 1020) They need a $100 phone, $150 mid range phone & $200 flagship. The low & mid range phones should be have the Lumia name & the High end & niche carry the Surface name. The Lumia M(M for mini) should replace the 520 series with added flash & front facing camera, 1 gig of ram, 8 gigs of storage w/ SD card slot. The Lumia should replace & combine the 620/720 series & be a solid mid range phone. The Surface phone should be the flagship phone, while the Surface Pro or Plus or +, should be the niche camera phone. The most important thing they need to do is to have the same phone on all US carriers at the same time so they can have a unified message & advertising. They need to literally flood the TV, sporting events, internet, movie theaters, etc with even more ads consistantly for a solid year with the new message, phones & MS services. They need to get to a minimum 10% preferably 12%-15% in the next 18 months & I think it can happen with a simplified line, 8.1, faster updates, heavy, universal apps, heavy heavy marketing & cheap low end OEM's in China & India(China & India have a combined 2 BILLION person emerging smartphone market)

 

[Gwenddoleu]

Re: MS Better have something really big planned

I agree with many things you wrote.

What did they expect??
How would Nokia (Microsoft) increase their sales if they don't propose new smartphones and don't make advertisements?

The only new phones (Lumia) since last summer were... two phablets (only for niche) and this spring the Icon limited only to one US operator. How would you people buy phones if shops don't propose them (the good and old 925 disappeared to fast from the distribution and I've never seen real advertisement).

People don't buy Windows Phones because we only see advertisement for Android models and iPhones. Lot of people, even in 2014, still don't know that Windows Phone just exists!!!

So Microsoft, please don't be so SLOW to launch new models, and to update the OS. Make a lot of marketing campaigns, because we only see iPhone and Samsung (sometimes Sony) products at the TV, in the shops, in the newspapers, etc.... It's the necessary key for sales success... Why did the iPhone 5s had good sales results (after a rather "cold" period)? Not because of a "super-extraordinary-fantastic-phone", but thank's to the HUGE marketing campagn.

I hope things will change now with the release of WP8.1....

 

[rdubmu]

Re: MS Better have something really big planned

Release phones on all carriers and have enough in production to be able to so this. In the Seattle area the 920 was sold out for about two weeks in stores. I had travel an hour south to get a 920. Of course windows phone are huge in the Seattle area for adults. The 920 was only on one carrier.


Also they don't need to have so many different type of devices. Just pick three and so them really we'll (Lumia 62x for lowend and a flagship like the Icon and then lastly a plablet size phone like the 1520.


Get rid of the numbers and do branding. The HTC one is a horrible name, could you imagine if it was called the HTC infinity or the HTC something else... Icon is a great name, keep the Lumia name maybe the 1520 could be the Icon King. The 62x called the Icon Mini.
Do a refresh on the device each hear. Follow apples model where you don't even need to change the look of the device rather just the internal components




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jlzimmerman]

First of all, great post. I feel exactly the way you do completely agree. I believe perception is MS's #1 problem. However, they haven't done themselves any favors with bad PR and idiotic marketing over the past couple years. They shoot themselves in the foot time and time again. Any bad move, statistic, or "failure" on MS is blown up and made front page news in the most negative way. However, does anyone even know that Apple and Google were involved in a lawsuit by their own employees for holding down wages??? Where was that on the front page of The Verge?

I was in the university computer lab the other day and had a problem with OneDrive's click-to-run integration with Office. Tech support came in and isolated the problem as an Internet Explorer problem. "Generally, we advise everyone to not use IE," they said. "In fact, you're pretty much the only student I've seen on campus that even uses IE. Most of the time it's 60-year-old professors." I've had other friends mock me for using Bing, for switching to Outlook.com instead of using my old Gmail account, for using OneDrive instead of Dropbox, for using IE instead of Chrome, etc.

Your IE problem makes me question which version of IE your University is using. If it's 6, 7, or 8, not wonder. Any newer version of IE is typically very good. And some things work in Chrome because the security in IE is tighter. There's no question which I'd rather use.

And your friends mocking you. Sounds like great "friends." Ignorant and immature. It sounds like a good time for you to educate them on why you use what you do and how it's more useful to you. If you can concisely make your point and show them they will stop mocking you.

 

[jlzimmerman]

I haven't checked these numbers independently, but assuming they are correct, there is one very clear conclusion...
Microsoft products are MASSIVELY MASSIVELY overpriced.

You might think the iPhone is expensive, but in comparison, it's nothing. I suggest that we ALL boycott ALL Microsoft products until they reduce the prices by at least 50%. That will still leave them with an acceptable profit.

MS is overpriced and Apple is worth it? Oy vey. My 6 year old 17" Windows 7 laptop was $700 and still killing it. There is zero Apple product that can match that for the price. Check any iPhone price (especially one of equal storage capacity) against any top end WP. There's no comparison regarding which is a bargain.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

I haven't checked these numbers independently, but assuming they are correct, there is one very clear conclusion...
Microsoft products are MASSIVELY MASSIVELY overpriced.

You might think the iPhone is expensive, but in comparison, it's nothing. I suggest that we ALL boycott ALL Microsoft products until they reduce the prices by at least 50%. That will still leave them with an acceptable profit.

How are Microsoft products massively overpriced?

Edit: To be more specific, comparing them to Apple is a bad idea because they're not really in the same business. Microsoft is trying to slowly move over to there, but they aren't there yet. They're a software company that happens to sell some hardware. They also sell cloud services. But if you look at their bottom line, they're a software company.

 

[Saksham Sharma]

How are Microsoft products massively overpriced?

Edit: To be more specific, comparing them to Apple is a bad idea because they're not really in the same business. Microsoft is trying to slowly move over to there, but they aren't there yet. They're a software company that happens to sell some hardware. They also sell cloud services. But if you look at their bottom line, they're a software company.

umm.. In India if you buy a surface 2 pro, with under 100gb useable storage, it costs about INR 57,000. Dont talk about RT, it just wont work for most stuff in india. For INR 60,000 you get a hp laptop with 8GB ram, 2GB graphics, i5 processor, for all your needs. For people on limited budgets (who comprise 90% of laptop/tablet users), that isn't a fair deal. I know a laptop and a tab cant be compared, but still, i was just giving an idea of how overpriced it is.
MS stuff is expensive by developing countries standards, where a person earning 20-30 thousand USD an year is considered very affluent.

Here we get good android tablets with powerful gaming prowess for INR 10,000 approx. I'd rather buy a INR 50,000 high end laptop and a INR 10,000 tab than a surface pro.

P.s. Dont get me wrong, I'm a big MS fan and a android hater too.. I wouldn't buy a lagdroid tab, instead i'd keep my win8 laptop and buy a new windows phone when i replace my 520..