It is likely that Surface Mini will replace the RT at the $350 price point. I honestly think the only reason it's not coming out sooner is that Microsoft wants to sell off stock of Surface RTs.
Can Surface succeed as a consumer product?
- Thread starter Christian Kallevig
- Start date
WillysJeepMan
Active member
I think that it would be suicide for Microsoft to enter into the 7"-8" tablet arena now. THAT is the MOST competitive sub-market within tablet market. Microsoft doesn't have its act together enough to venture into those waters. The 10" tablet is virtually solely Apple's domain and so there is an opportunity to get their foot in the door.
If you think that Microsoft's message has been stifled in the 10" market with the Surface RT... the silence would be deafening if they released an 8" tablet now.
The trouble with the 7"-8" space is that it's all about the race to the bottom in pricing. Amazon can afford to sell these things at a loss. Google can too. Microsoft can't.
Not to mention that Surface is premium product made of premium materials. There are no corners cut for cost.
Not to mention that Surface is premium product made of premium materials. There are no corners cut for cost.
Windows phone market share is mainly growing because of the low end devices. Without market share you struggle to get developer or consumer interest no matter how well made your products are.
You are 100% correct. But that is 100% thanks to Nokia. I don't think any Surface product will ever be a Lumia 520-esque low end device. Microsoft is going to leave that to OEMs while it positions Surface as a high end brand.
The trouble is the OEM's won't be able to compete on price against the Nexus and Kindle Fire as these are basically sold at cost. It's in Microsoft's interest to do the same. There's a difference between taking an intelligent loss - like Bing against a stupid loss - Surface RT. Don't forget that they take a healthy 30% cut out of all app store sales so they need lots of tablets out there, not a niche product.
Of course they can't. At the very least Microsoft needs to dump the Windows licensing fee for OEMs to compete (although things are looking promising for Bay Trail devices right now, but I'm not holding my breath)
But come on, this is Microsoft we're talking about. This is not a company that is known for their understanding of the market. Generally speaking they do one of two things- push a new idea out before the technology or quality is there to fully realize it and have another company do the same thing years later to great success or they push out a great, refined product that is too expensive and too niche to compete with other brands that are already firmly cemented in the market. Surface falls into the latter category, of course.
Microsoft has shown no interest in building low-cost devices and I doubt that's going to change. Right now they are trying their hardest to be Apple, even though that's just not what they are.
But come on, this is Microsoft we're talking about. This is not a company that is known for their understanding of the market. Generally speaking they do one of two things- push a new idea out before the technology or quality is there to fully realize it and have another company do the same thing years later to great success or they push out a great, refined product that is too expensive and too niche to compete with other brands that are already firmly cemented in the market. Surface falls into the latter category, of course.
Microsoft has shown no interest in building low-cost devices and I doubt that's going to change. Right now they are trying their hardest to be Apple, even though that's just not what they are.
angusdegraosta
New member
Yes. They should do that with the phone too.
I preordered Surface 2 and the touch cover. The specs should help sales. The display model looks great in my local store.
With Surface in particular, they need to do a much better job of getting the product out there and in people's hands to try out. Also like with Windows Phone, we need salespeople who are educated on the product and can represent it well to customers.
I think on the WP front, low end phones are going to be the key. Get them in enough hands and word will start spreading. Of course a strong ad campaign is needed, targeted at educating consumers about Windows Phone and Surface
I think on the WP front, low end phones are going to be the key. Get them in enough hands and word will start spreading. Of course a strong ad campaign is needed, targeted at educating consumers about Windows Phone and Surface
TachyonicCargo
New member
Having not read anyone else's comments (yet), as unfortunately, I am short for time right now, here is my take.
I have no idea if Surface can succeed as a consumer product, however I do know that I am personally purchasing a Surface 2; where I did skip over purchasing the original Surface a year ago.
I own two Android tablets; a Nexus 7, and a Sero 7 Pro, and was completely happy with both purchases. But then I recently (back in July) upgraded my phone to a modern smartphone. A Lumia 925 to be exact, but the Windows Phone nature of my purchase has less to do with what happened next, as pretty much all modern smartphones achieve the same goal and functions. But what did happen next over the follow six or seven weeks, is that I gradually started using my tablets less and less.
The fact of the matter is, when it comes to Android tabs and iPad, they are little more than larger versions of the smartphones that run the exact same OS. If you have a modern smartphone, any modern smartphone, the need (and eventually the desire) to carry around a separate piece of tech for more mobile computing, just fades away into redundancy. And when I looked into the phenomenon thinking I was the only person effected by it, recent studies have proven this to be true among the majority of modern smartphone users. Tablets if they are used at all any longer, are mostly used at home, while everything people were using the tablets for, are just done with their smartphones throughout the bulk of their waking day. And this is one of the reason why I think phablets are a growing market sector.
In my mind this presents a very real problem as an end user. I have two relatively expensive pieces of mobile tech sitting in my home collection dust; made obsolete by my smartphone. When you start looking at the picture from that angle, you start asking yourself the inevitable question which goes something along the lines of, "what would it take to make tablets relevant as a mobile computing platform to the masses of smartphone users who have largely abandoned the use of their tablets outside of the home?"
Well, when I get serious, or big questions, I like to answer them with more questions, as it's easier to discover the greater truths that way. So after some thought, I came up with this one, "what if tablets could do more; more computing, more functionality, etc., than my smartphone? Would that make it a more relevant mobile computing platform?" And when you start thinking like that, you eventually start asking other questions, like, "what if my tablet could completely replace my laptop . . . ?" Or, "what if my tablet could completely replace my desktop . . . ?" Or, what if my tablet could completely replace all my heavy lifting compute needs, would that then make it relevant in a world where my smartphone has supplanted current tablet use in general?"
You start asking questions like that, and suddenly, this 'futuristic' tablet 'that does not yet exist' begins to consume all your thoughts of what tablets should be, and not what tablets currently are.
And it's not just me. I have found when I pose those questions to just about everyone: coworkers, clients, friends, etc., people tend to get pretty excited about what tablets could be. Some (mostly non-tablet owners) go so far as expressing disbelief that tablets do not already fill that function, as many had been under the impression that's what tablets were - next generation replacements for laptops. And when the base price for an iPad is $500 (same price of a AMD A8, or Intel Core i3 quad-core laptop) it is easy to see why people who do not own tablets, assume tablets are an equitable replacement for the venerable laptop - many tablets cost as much as laptops. And it is not just ordinary people who see this, when the questions are posed. Have you seen what Samsung has been doing with the most recent versions of the Note 10.1, and Galaxy Tab 3? They are attempting to cram as much extra features above and beyond vanilla Android, to make these $500 tablets more like work PCs and less like what tablets have come to represent. And that is a big tell if their ever were one, when even Samsung agrees, that ideally tablets should be equitable replacements for laptops PCs.
And all of this is where we get to Windows 8 tablets (in general) and Surface tablets (in specific). In getting the Surface to be a successful consumer product, part of the task Microsoft has ahead of it, is educating the masses, that tablets in their current form, are not 'real' computers in the sense that people are familiar with computers . . .educating the masses, that tablets in their current form, are little more than big screen smartphones (usually with the phone bit removed). I feel that once you can get [enough] people to understand those facts, and the ramifications of those facts in relation to their daily lives, then the idea of getting a real PC in tablet form, becomes all the more an appetizing idea to consumers. Even RT (especially RT 8.1) out of the box, without any bloatware, or downloading a single app, has more computer functionality than any Android tab, or iPad in a similar state - out of the box, without any bloatware, or downloading a single app. And getting that message across, is key to the success of Windows tablets in general. Beyond that point, Surface can succeed, or fail based upon how Microsoft positions it to do so in the overarching Windows tablet market sector. And even there Microsoft seems to have a handle on things - if the rumors are to be believed. Rumors of 7" Surface tablets, and gaming Surface tablets due for a 2014 release, seem to persist. Any of which turns out to be true, then you are looking at a full range of Surface-branded tablets: big ones, small ones, x64 ones, ARM ones, and video game-centric ones. In theory, by the halfway point in 2014, we'd be looking at a full range of Surface-branded tablets. And depending on how the pricing shakes out (for example, I would not be surprised to see a Bay Trail-based Surface show up), there really could be something for everywhere. At which point, how you look to judge Surface as a consumer device, changes considerably than who you look at it now, with it's 3-device strategy.
I know that does not really answer any questions, but hopefully it does provide some food for thought.
TachyonicCargo
New member
Microsoft does not do this, purely for security reasons. Apple does the exact same thing in iOS. Versions of other browsers in iOS, are little more than skins for Safari. If Microsoft opened up RT/Metro in the fashion you are asking, to allow any browser to take the place of IE in that environment, then they would be opening up the entire OS to every type of attack imaginable. And as much as the tech world [for some strange reason] love to hate Microsoft, you can bet your last dollar, there would be a line of people looking to exploit a security hole of that nature, and make life miserable for anyone owning a Windows 8 product.
And you know how the tech world is. They complain now you can't get Chrome or Firefox to replace IE Metro, but they would be more than happy to open up a **** storm of negativity, should Microsoft change that policy to give the complainers what they want, but in turn making Windows 8 [by design] open to the kinds of exploits that curry attacks against users.
Daniel Gandolfo
New member
@ TachyonicCargo:
First off, thank you very much for that first post this is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to hear, and it's especially great hearing it from someone who is familiar with tablets not made by Microsoft. I personally believe you are absolutely right- Surface represents a logical evolution of the tablet from a sort of large-screened smartphone for around-the-house usage, to a more general purpose computing device that could eventually replace the need for a full PC for many. The potential is there, and I think if other people could see it they'd be on board too.
People who pan Surface for not being a traditional enough design or say that it proves Microsoft doesn't understand mobile are not seeing this from the proper perspective. This isn't behind the curve, or representative of a company stuck in the past. This is the future.
Also, on the browser thing, I do think you have a point and I can certainly understand Microsoft's perspective on this. And honestly I find IE11 to be completely fine for my needs, but I also dislike the idea that Windows is becoming a closed-off ecosystem. I'm not suggesting Microsoft turn this into Android, but giving an option to run non-Windows Store apps at the user's own risk would be nice. Even if it's a hidden option. In fact, it should be hidden. I just believe that choice is always a good thing
Of course this is not going to happen and I'm going to keep on using Surface and by extension Windows RT anyway.
First off, thank you very much for that first post this is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to hear, and it's especially great hearing it from someone who is familiar with tablets not made by Microsoft. I personally believe you are absolutely right- Surface represents a logical evolution of the tablet from a sort of large-screened smartphone for around-the-house usage, to a more general purpose computing device that could eventually replace the need for a full PC for many. The potential is there, and I think if other people could see it they'd be on board too.
People who pan Surface for not being a traditional enough design or say that it proves Microsoft doesn't understand mobile are not seeing this from the proper perspective. This isn't behind the curve, or representative of a company stuck in the past. This is the future.
Also, on the browser thing, I do think you have a point and I can certainly understand Microsoft's perspective on this. And honestly I find IE11 to be completely fine for my needs, but I also dislike the idea that Windows is becoming a closed-off ecosystem. I'm not suggesting Microsoft turn this into Android, but giving an option to run non-Windows Store apps at the user's own risk would be nice. Even if it's a hidden option. In fact, it should be hidden. I just believe that choice is always a good thing
Of course this is not going to happen and I'm going to keep on using Surface and by extension Windows RT anyway.
Yep MS should flood the market with Ad's like that. It shows several ways people can use the Surface. With the Dancing Ad's no one knew just what the Surface can be used for. Give people a good example of how "They" can use it for and I think it will help drive sales.
Well, it could, but MS really need to excel on one category at least, such as price-quality or software , the price have stopped me to get one honestly.
Probably if they preinstalled a good set of apps would be more attractive, specially some multimedia apps like Garage Band and iMovie, or what about to include a large cloud storage for free to sync pc/tablets.
Probably if they preinstalled a good set of apps would be more attractive, specially some multimedia apps like Garage Band and iMovie, or what about to include a large cloud storage for free to sync pc/tablets.
SwimSwim
New member
Garageband and iMovie are both Apple software, and Apple doesn't bundle them with their iPads. And as for large cloud storage: anyone who buys a Surface 2 or Surface Pro 2 gets two years of free 200GB SkyDrive storage. If that isn't large, I don't know what is...
All $275 of that premium cost. Where do you guys get this stuff. A simple search will give you the cost breakdown of any tablet or smartphone. None of them are sold at a loss. Unless it's for catastrophic sales due to lack of demand like the Blackberry and HP tablets, that is.
Man, this is so similar to my situation. I had a IPAD and Nexus 7. Work gave me a choice between Iphone and Nokia 920. I was bored with Apple so I thought I'd give it a try. Feel in love with the damn thing and I used my tablets less and less. It was just easier to use my phone. Then I bought a Surface RT and everything changed. It blew me away! So basically I'm down to two devices now my Nok and my Surface (soon to be surface 2). I'm convinced MS is on the right path. People just need to start using it and they'll never go back to phone OS on tablets again. I know I won't.
Oh mark my words that Apple is going to release a keyboard for it's ipad on the 22nd. You'll see...
Pretty much. It just makes too much sense. I see people with ipads and keyboards all the freaking time. Apple wants to portray the ipad as a productive tool and it undercuts surface.
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