Can Surface succeed as a consumer product?

SwimSwim

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Man, this is so similar to my situation. I had a IPAD and Nexus 7. Work gave me a choice between Iphone and Nokia 920. I was bored with Apple so I thought I'd give it a try. Feel in love with the damn thing and I used my tablets less and less. It was just easier to use my phone. Then I bought a Surface RT and everything changed. It blew me away! So basically I'm down to two devices now my Nok and my Surface (soon to be surface 2). I'm convinced MS is on the right path. People just need to start using it and they'll never go back to phone OS on tablets again. I know I won't.

Oh mark my words that Apple is going to release a keyboard for it's ipad on the 22nd. You'll see...

Yeah, once I got my Nokia Lumia 900 (first smartphone ever :amaze:), my use of my iPad slowly diminished over the following months, until it turned into zero. A few months ago, after having it sit on a shelf forever, I backed it up, did a factory reset and just gave it to my sister. It bores me now, but I'm eager for an upcoming Surface Pro 2. It's replacing my current laptop, and I plan to use it well in school. I don't care if it doesn't have as many apps as other platforms, I primarily plan to use it for work and stuff I currently do my laptop. To buy a tablet for play just bores me, my phone does it all in a much sleeker package.

I know others like the extra screen real estate of a tablet for games and such, but personally, I like to use the big screen for work, and the little screen for play. Ok, I'd occasionally like to play games on that wonderful 1080p, and with Windows 8.1, I can. :)

I'm just glad that the market has grown to a point where you can choose what best works for you, and not what a select few companies feel is the the best take on things.
 

SwimSwim

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And the tech world will praise Apple for introducing a keyboard

Sadly, yes, and then everyone will suddenly suffer a lapse of amnesia about how much they hate the Surface's concept of a keyboard, and praise Apple for revolutionary. The most brainwashed on the bunch will actually then start to accuse Microsoft of copying Apple, no doubt. The latter group will be small in number, but they'll be vocal in their own way.
 

coolqf

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Of course they can't. At the very least Microsoft needs to dump the Windows licensing fee for OEMs to compete (although things are looking promising for Bay Trail devices right now, but I'm not holding my breath)

But come on, this is Microsoft we're talking about. This is not a company that is known for their understanding of the market. Generally speaking they do one of two things- push a new idea out before the technology or quality is there to fully realize it and have another company do the same thing years later to great success or they push out a great, refined product that is too expensive and too niche to compete with other brands that are already firmly cemented in the market. Surface falls into the latter category, of course.

Microsoft has shown no interest in building low-cost devices and I doubt that's going to change. Right now they are trying their hardest to be Apple, even though that's just not what they are.

SurfaceRT with 2gb is OK, but regular Win8 with 2GB is insane. Bay trail devices coming in the next 6 months will only include 2gb of ram and Win8 32bit. This is the kind of stuff that tarnishes MS's brand. Its already difficult enough explaining WinRT vs regular Win8. Now we also have to explain Win8 x64 and Win8 x32....
 

AndyGriff

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If the Surface is to succeed as a consumer product, it'll more than likely be through the back door, i.e. via the consumers' employers. The Surface has an enormous advantage in the corporate world in being able to plug straight into an existing Microsoft server technology infrastructure. We've already seen limited take-up of Windows tablets and Windows Phones on this very basis and there's no reason this shouldn't continue: the idea of supporting devices whose access to network resources can be controlled by Group Policy when connected to a corporate network is a welcome one from a systems administrator's point of view, believe me.

Once people get used to seeing and using the technology at work, they won't be so clueless about it when buying it themselves. (And they won't have to rely on an undoubtedly ill-informed salesperson for advice.)
 

SwimSwim

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I love when fanboys ridicule others for being fanboys. Hilarious projection.

I try to be as open minded as possible, but I obviously have my own biases. But as I've said on these forums before, Apple has fine products, I've owned one before (iPad first Gen, it was fun while it lasted, before I got bored of it). Hell, of it wasn't for Apple (well, Steve Jobs more specifically), then many modern products wouldn't exist or be much different today.

I just hate how Apple started one of the biggest cults of all time...
 

Narr

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The Surface product is mostly there, it's stable, doesn't lag and comes with some great features. It will be hit hard in the long term if the app situation isn't sorted though as people look at the options and if the devs aren't looking to RT first (or a close second) then Microsoft will lose the traction.
On a personal note Microsoft need to sort their support out, I've had 4 Surface RT now and the last 2 have had electric current running through them and all I get back is that the current will not damage the Surface and that's from the escalation team. They don't seem motivated to provide any customer satisfaction and all communication is a chat window or email with people who may or may not even work for MS directly. I know my experience has been soured and I'll not be buying another MS product until I can talk to people face to face.
 

WillysJeepMan

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You mean like the Apple mentality?
Yes, but what's your point? Apple is at the top of the heap and so they can (temporarily) get away with hubris (at their own risk). Microsoft doesn't have that luxury in this arena...but they are apparently acting like they do.

edit to add: Actually Apple DOES show why their products are useful. From their highly publicized keynote addresses to their retail outlets. What did Microsoft do when they first introduced the Surface to consumers? Created ads with metrosexual hipsters prancing around swapping keyboards. Do you think that THAT was helpful?
 

kristalsoldier

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Yes, but what's your point? Apple is at the top of the heap and so they can (temporarily) get away with hubris (at their own risk). Microsoft doesn't have that luxury in this arena...but they are apparently acting like they do.

edit to add: Actually Apple DOES show why their products are useful. From their highly publicized keynote addresses to their retail outlets. What did Microsoft do when they first introduced the Surface to consumers? Created ads with metrosexual hipsters prancing around swapping keyboards. Do you think that THAT was helpful?

You seem rather insecure with what you post!

When I observed "like the Apple mentality", I meant it as a clarification to your observation, which ran as follows: "If we make it, they'll buy it because we're Microsoft!"

But, now that you have brought up the matter, my view on this is that Apple does not really demonstrate the usefulness of their products. They sell a dream (which does not contradict the fact that their products are good - at the very least in design) which is more than evident - in your words - "from their highly publicized keynote addresses to their retail outlets".

You then mentioned: " Microsoft doesn't have that luxury in this arena...but they are apparently acting like they do."

That's nothing but your perception. What MS did with their ad campaigns during the release of the 1st Gen of Surface devices could be nothing more than an ill-thought marketing campaign. Of course, they had other problems too - like pushing to the market an unfinished OS (Win 8.0) and an unrefined device (the two 1st Gen Surface devices). Personally, I think they rushed to the market and there could be many reasons for it. Organizations may be conceptualized rationally, but they don't always operate rationally. And, knowing bits and pieces of the internal struggles and political games that were (and, arguably, are still) going on (involving Ballmer, Sinofsky and other sundry figures), it is not surprising that they took a number of (expensive) missteps. But none of this detracts from the fundamental conceptual design of what MS was/ is trying to do with the Surface.

I should also add - considering the fact that the total number of computers that run a version of Microsoft's software outstrips the total number of computing devices (and this includes iPhones, iPads, and Macs of various hues) that Apple has designed and sold, I'd say that MS effectively wields a lot of power in the marketplace - consumer and enterprise. It also reiterates the "usefulness" of MS products. In comparison, what Apple has is a very narrow slice of the market, albeit a very profitable one. But one cannot conflate the commercial success of Apple with the utility of their machines (which does not necessarily imply that their products are totally useless; Indeed, I also own a iPad4, which I find eminently useful, but in a narrow sort of a way, but useful nevertheless to the point of it contributing materially to my monthly income!).

And, to bring this back to the topic of this thread, personally, I hope the Surface (particularly, the RT version) succeeds in the market. Why? Purely because I see value in it and I appreciate its aesthetics. But this does not mean that I am blind to the shortcomings of the Surface. Though I do think the hardware is excellent, I also think that the OS (specifically Win 8.1 RT) is still not a refined product - though it is much better than what was originally released. There are still too many kinks in it which need to be ironed out. But, again, I am no oracle and this is just my opinion, which is, in the scheme of things, irrelevant.
 

WillysJeepMan

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( ... snipped... )
And, to bring this back to the topic of this thread, personally, I hope the Surface (particularly, the RT version) succeeds in the market. Why? Purely because I see value in it and I appreciate its aesthetics. But this does not mean that I am blind to the shortcomings of the Surface. Though I do think the hardware is excellent, I also think that the OS (specifically Win 8.1 RT) is still not a refined product - though it is much better than what was originally released. There are still too many kinks in it which need to be ironed out. But, again, I am no oracle and this is just my opinion, which is, in the scheme of things, irrelevant.
On this I'm in complete agreement with... and I do appreciate intellectual honesty that can see things as they are without the need to view shortcomings with rose-colored glasses, or exaggerate the benefits.
 

Highdefjunkie

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I'm already seeing more acceptance for the Surface 2 then the RT last year. What was a joke last year people are starting to get it now. And the reviews on the Surface 2 has been pretty damn good. I now it'll sell better just for the fact the second gen's usually always do better. And Gen 3 will even be more mature and sell better. They are on the right path. Keep chugging along. It'll gain wide acceptance. You'll see.

BTW - I like the marketing on Surface 2. It's not a competitor to anyone. It's it own category and they are highlighting that it can replace your laptop for most cases all. I see it first hand at my job. Upper level guys are buying this more and more.
 
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SwimSwim

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I'm already seeing more acceptance for the Surface 2 then the RT last year. What was a joke last year people are starting to get it now. And the reviews on the Surface 2 has been pretty damn good. I now it'll sell better just for the fact the second gen's usually always do better. And Gen 3 will even be more mature and sell better. They are on the right path. Keep chugging along. It'll gain wide acceptance. You'll see.

BTW - I like the marketing on Surface 2. It's not a competitor to anyone. It's it own category and they are highlighting that it can replace your laptop for most cases all. I see it first hand at my job. Upper level guys are buying this more and more.

Yeah, people are now genuinely getting intrigued by the Surface. Obviously, it'll be awhile before people go out and buy it in droves, but people are getting curious. It's akin the Windows Phone, laughing stock at first, but thanks to refinements from updates, as well as Microsoft marketing it better, people are beginning to respect it and actually are starting to consider it as a replacement phone (I know so many people who are beginning to tire of their iPhones, and think Android is too ugly, so they're actually considering some sort of Windows Phone device for their next upgrade).

Again, it'll be awhile before Microsoft gains market share with Windows 8 or Windows Phone 8, but now that the nitpicking and cheap laughs are over, people are now interested in what it can actually do. Its mindshare is growing, and that is no laughing matter. The bigger mindshare means people will actually go and explore Windows and the advantages it offers, and will actually consider it for their next device purchase.

The other day, I pulled out my Surface Pro 2 in class to do a web assignment. Well, the work took a little longer to get done than it should've, because I was busy explaining what it was and demoing stuff for all my classmates who were totally mindblown by it. Again, I don't think any of them will be running out and buying an Windows device anytime soon, but all of them walked away impressed. It was outside their realm of Apple, they got a small sample, and they liked how it tasted, and they want more. For people who had never considered anything for a tablet aside from an iPad, seeing a new take on mobile computing was very impressive.

The interest is there, now Microsoft just needs to cash in on that curiosity and get people pumped about Windows before the intrigue dies out and everyone settles back in the world of Apple vs. Android. It's going to be a lot of work, and they need to consistently push out awesome commercials. They're getting significantly better (the new Surface Frames commercial is FANTASTIC, I keep watching it simply because I think it's such a great commercial, it's honestly up there with "Here's to the Crazy Ones"), but they need to be pushing out these great commercials all the time. Again, getting better, but they still occasionally push out such garbage that you can't possibly believe it's by the same company that made the Surface Frames commercial (the Scroogled campaign, anyone?).

Hopefully Microsoft gets this marketing thing down soon. The opportunity to reestablish itself in the market is there, but the door of opportunity is closing shut quickly, and they've barely got their foot in the door. If they hesitate any longer, they'll end up with nothing more than some stubbed toes and bankruptcy.
 

kristalsoldier

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Yes, indeed there seems to be more of a buzz - if you can call it that - around the Surface this time around. For example, on Saturday, I was at a B&M store to buy my Surface 2. Firstly, I was after a 32GB unit, but they had sold out. So, I had to get the 64GB version, which was fine by me. But in the space of 10 or 15 minutes, two 64GB units of the Surface 2 and one unit of the 256GB Surface Pro was sold... right there in front of me. Plus, there was a group of about 10 odd people handling the display machines. Nothing compared to the lines that I have seen at the local Apple store, or indeed the average crowd at the Apple store, nevertheless....
 

WillysJeepMan

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Microsoft made a wise choice in buying ad space during THE WALKING DEAD. I was watching last night's episode and there was a Surface ad during every other commercial break. And the ads were good not goofy. That's a great step in the right direction.

If they can generate consumer buzz this holiday shopping season (I still believe that they will), they will continue to build momentum.
 

chezm

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Microsoft made a wise choice in buying ad space during THE WALKING DEAD. I was watching last night's episode and there was a Surface ad during every other commercial break. And the ads were good not goofy. That's a great step in the right direction.

If they can generate consumer buzz this holiday shopping season (I still believe that they will), they will continue to build momentum.

Agreed, my wife and i were watching it...and she even commented on the commercial saying it caught her attention...she doesnt even care for devices other than her iPhone.
 

Christian Kallevig

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I really am hopeful for the future of the Surface line. They are great products when you view them for what they are.

The Surface is what a tablet would be like in a world where tablets evolved from netbooks rather than smartphones. It is a tablet PC ccrafted with a different mindset and guiding set of principals than the iPad and the many android tablets out there.

Surface 2 is the greatest netbook ever made. It is the logical evolution of that type of computer into the modern age, but far higher quality than netbooks ever were.
 

kristalsoldier

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I really am hopeful for the future of the Surface line. They are great products when you view them for what they are.

The Surface is what a tablet would be like in a world where tablets evolved from netbooks rather than smartphones. It is a tablet PC ccrafted with a different mindset and guiding set of principals than the iPad and the many android tablets out there.

Surface 2 is the greatest netbook ever made. It is the logical evolution of that type of computer into the modern age, but far higher quality than netbooks ever were.

That's quite an interesting way to put it! One could indeed trace the genealogy of the Surface from a Netbook rather than from a mobile phone. OTOH, it could be argued that the genealogy of the iPad and Android tablets can be traced from mobile phones. In this sense, the Surface represents a completely different design mind-set as compared to the iPad and Android tablets.
 

Highdefjunkie

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Yeah, the Surface 2 (RT) is becoming less of a joke and people are starting to get it. I honestly think that Chrome OS is helping it. They both are basically the same it does what it does very, very well, but people see S2 and think hell this does tons more and has office? No-brainer. People are embracing the less is more shtick.
 

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